Notes on the murder of George Tiller
*Late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down at his church in Kansas Sunday morning in a thoroughly evil, cold-blooded act of domestic terrorism. Yes, terrorism. Not “extremism.” Interesting how the t-word has been rediscovered.
*Every mainstream pro-life organization has unequivocally condemned the killing.
I repeat: Every mainstream pro-life organization has unequivocally condemned the killing.
*Princeton University professor Robert P. George is right about this: “Whoever murdered George Tiller has done a gravely wicked thing. The evil of this action is in no way diminished by the blood George Tiller had on his own hands. No private individual had the right to execute judgment against him. We are a nation of laws. Lawless violence breeds only more lawless violence.”
*President Obama is right about this: “However profound our differences as Americans over difficult issues such as abortion, they cannot be resolved by heinous acts of violence.”
*Unfortunately, some are not content to leave it at that for now. They fail to respect that there is a proper time and place to indulge in political battle.
You can go here, here, and here for all that. Another round-up here.
Tiller’s family is grieving. Those who have jumped to score political points before Tiller is even buried are no better than the Phelps family thugs of the “Westboro Baptist Church” who respect no bounds of civility.
Unfortunately, it’s too much to ask the cable news networks and hyper-partisan snipers on the Internet to have the decency to restrain themselves.
Prepare for a wall-to-wall onslaught of gleeful finger-pointing on the Left and heated responses on the Right.
Prepare for whitewashed hagiographies of Tiller’s career as an abortionist.
Prepare for DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano’s defenders to gloat about vindication.
Prepare for collective demonization of pro-lifers and Christians — and more gratuitous attempts to tar talk radio, Fox News, and the Tea Party movement as responsible for the heinous crime.
Prepare for the continuing redefinition of any and all sharp political disagreement as “hate” — a ruinous trend that inevitably comes back to haunt the hysterical accusers decrying “hate” the loudest.
How unhinged has the discourse gotten already? Here’s the left-wing Daily Kos going after the left-wing John Aravosis for going after Barack Obama because he didn’t go after “right-wing extremism” hard enough.
It’s going to be a long week.
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Michelle:
This too shall pass…
This has started already with the report at CNN quoting Peter Brownlie:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/31/kansas.doctor.killed/index.html
I have followed the story of Phil Kline investigating Tiller for a long time, when he first filed for 30 counts of violating Kansas law, and how the abortion industry did whatever they had to do to destroy Kline. Brownlie was in the middle of that.
Those 30 counts were 30 cases in which Kline thought he could prove the late-term abortions performed by Tiller were in violation of Kansas law…which requires a threat to the health of the mother. Depression was cited in at least one case. The law also requires a second, independent Doctor’s opinion that the mother’s health was threatened. In more than one case, a Doctor was used that had financial ties to Tiller. Of the 19 counts that were eventually brought, all were dismissed.
None of this in any way excuses Tiller being gunned down at his church…or anywhere else.
One wonders what would have happened if the case went to trial.
Point 1: I am anti-abortion.
Point 2: Question. Do they use the electric chair in Kansas? Because once they convict this guy, that’s what he deserves. Turn it on ‘High’ and leave it on extra long.
The Bible says you don’t fight evil with evil, but with good. The perpetrator will still have to answer for his actions before both God and man.
I did find it ironic that Tiller was in a church when he was gunned down. I would have thought he would be too ashamed to attend a place of worship while still practicing the killing of innocents.
God accepts all who call upon his name but I believe they must have a repentent heart when doing so. If he was repentent then I wouldn’t think he would have continued in his sin of murder on a daily basis.
Tiller’s eternal soul is in God’s hands now.
Gosh, I thought they all used the word “militant” in lieu of “terrorist.”
Dr. Tiller is standing now in front of the only Judge that matters. He and his killer can get to know one another in Hades.
Thanks for re-opening the comments, let the left bring it on!
Yep, I don’t think that conversation went too well.
I’m not sorry to see him go, but not in this manner. Besides, another abortion doc will just replace him. This does nothing to further the prolife cause.
The lefties will politicize this but they have crazy people too. Prolifers don’t murder, crazy people do.
I hope the national attention to this will educate people on the horrifying procedure called late term abortion.
As far as terrorists, how about that father who honor killed his two daughters? Is he a terrorist since he killed TWO people? Is the guy who honor killed his wife a terrorist as well?
I have read some comments from the liberal sites and I have to think that the only people happy about this are liberals. They seem to be gleeful with their comments of see how evil conservatives are. I just wish they would say the things they are saying about this deranged madman in the same context as Muslims who murder people for not being of the same religion or women, children, homosexuals and other innocents killed or maimed for not adhering to the Quran. I will never understand the liberal mentality, and I don’t think I want to.
I remember when the MSM was “fair” enough to not even to call Lee Harvey Osward a “right wing” extremist.
Just a random lethal nut, like this case.
James Greenidge
Queens, NY
Many frequent posters here have supported the killing.
This does nothing to help prolife, religious liberties, faith-based programs or 2nd amendment issues. Just another card to play for the unhinged left.
Does it ever hurt being that much of a liar?
Not Terry Randall or Operation Rescue. Randall regrets only that Dr. Tiller did not have time to confess before being sent to meet his maker.
Holy sh|t. I am totally going to try and derail this thread:
.
.
.
Zeroangel Junior born 31-May-09 via C-section.
8lbs. 6oz.
Perfectly healthy baby-boy! (Apgar 9) Ms. Zeroangel doing great.
OK. TTYL guys.
Since I know you can’t or won’t name the “many” posters you cite, try starting with just one…and reference the quote with a link, please.
This is no way to battle abortion. The righteous cause will be unfairly painted with the same brush as this killer, and it will take a long time to repair the damage.
Pray for Dr. Tiller’s family. And his soul. I don’t see how one could have experienced Christ’s love yet still perform late-term abortions. Of course, Dr. Tiller will have to answer to God for his sins, but it is not up to us to arrange the meeting.
Gee, I haven’t seen one post that supports this killing.
Could you please point those posts out to us?
Just some?
A few?
…One…?
I repeat: Every mainstream pro-life organization has unequivocally condemned the killing.
It doesn’t matter, Michelle. Conservatives should relate. Just as Sonia-“Court of Appeals is where policy is made”-Sotomayer flatulated what conservatives know to be true, left-wingers are resolved that all pro-life groups secretly applaud any and all violence against abortionists and their clinics. The leftards will never be persuaded otherwise. So, anything coming out of the pro-life camp is mere lip service and a show for political gain. All’s fair in the lust for power, in their view.
Zero, my heart felt congratulations to you and the missus!
One child born in this world to carry on!
The people who are most gleeful about the killing are on the left; the snarky “See we told you so” comments were hitting the blogs before the corpse was even cold.
Correct.
Because that is how they think!
The socialists, collectivists, opposite-world view holders, etc., are nothing if not examples of psychological projection on steroids.
Left wing extremist blogs are using the words THEY and THEM a lot. I’m pretty sure it was just one guy and they want everyone to believe he officially represeted everyone.
Let’s see, there are pproximately 306 million in this country (legally) and over half are pro-life. I suppose that means over 153 million of us went into the church and shot him.
Ignorant pro-abortion/murderers are upset at those in favor of Pro-LIFE because some nut went off. Ironic.
LGM – both those you mentioned have condemed the killing, as do I. The killer should be executed, if convicted.
LGM, you are wrong again.
DITTO!!! Congrats!
lgm – piss off you vile POS.
Who?
Why cherry pick your apologists and non-apologists? That game could go on and on for any topic.
Remember, all kinds of things are done in the name of Christianity. That doesn’t make it so.
zeroangel.
Good for you. The last of my twins got out of the nicu yeterday.
YAY US!!!
“Many frequent posters here have supported the killing.”
Is lgm really a teacher? I mean really? Regardless of his political persuasion some one who lies so blatantly ought not to be teaching anyone.
Make a list lgm. Lets see the list.
just ignore him, his agenda was obvious. an obivious troll.
just ignore him, his agenda was obvious. an obivious troll.
Tiller also made a LOT of money. Some thing that I’m sure didn’t motivate his pure of heart intentions to provide women reproductive choices. I know for sure we won’t hear about it in his bio from now on.
Very sad to have been killed. Killing him hurts the pro life movement. There is no excuse for his being killed. It is a totally condemnable act.
LGM a teacher? Little wonder our children come out of school indoctrinated with the liberal pablum they are fed on a daily basis. Another case for home schooling.
Talk about the dumbing down of America!
Prepare for the barking moonbats to trot out the usual gun control and anti NRA arguments.
Zeroangel — Congratulations, and well done!!!
Lgm — whatever, lying troll. Go boil you head.
This murder makes me sick, and I wish it hadn’t happened. I hope that the perpetrator is punished swiftly and decisively within the bounds of the law (even though he didn’t see fit to extend Dr. Tiller similar respect).
Don’t know whether or not that’s true, though sonofdy says it’s not, and I trust him over you.
However you said:
I’m calling you out. Who exactly said what exactly.
YAY indeed!
A major leftist dogma is that the ends justifies the means. Therefore, lefties project onto Conservatism that Tiller’s demise was justified. Not! This leftist is a teacher?! God, help America!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=www.operationrescue.org&btnG=Google+Search&rlz=1R2GPEA_en&aq=f&oq=&aqi=n1
For some reason, the operation rescue website is down but you can see in the second search that they have condemed this killing.
LGM would probably say not all muslims are terrorist just because some of them kill people repeatably all over the world, yet if one nutcase who 99.99999% of the pro-life people condems kills one pro-death doctor…
John Q. Public did the same thing to John Brown. You may think you’re taking the moral high-ground by tut-tutting, but God help this nation that allows the atrocity via legal statute. As John Brown said, “I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with Blood.”
54+ million abortions…
I cry for the babies.
I do not consider it unfair to say his “Lutheran” church has blood on its hands. As supposed Lutherans, which the ELCA membership no longer are, they had a duty to confront the good Doctor about his conduct. Instead they welcomed him as a member in good standing.
There is NOTHING in the Lutheran confessions, which are based on Scripture, that condones what Dr. Tiller did. What he did, they not only enabled, they celebrated.
The BBC reported that the killer sped away in a car but the police have a suspect in custody. Is there anymore information on your side of the pond.
Dr Tiller leaves a widow, 4 children and ten grandchildren – I agree with the comments above demanding the death penalty for the murderer.
A butcher is dead. Lives will be saved.
I beg to differ just a bit …
The evil of this action is only somewhat diminished by the blood George Tiller had on his own hands from his probable thousands of live birth abortions. No private individual has the right to execute judgment against others as long as there is a rule of law that is acknowledged and followed by all. We are a nation of laws, but those who consistantly work to ignore those laws for their own bennefit inevitably create vigilanties who then commit lawless violence.
The first step in creating a nation of vigilanties is taken by lawmakers who work against the public interest. Obama did exactly that when he, as a law maker, made/wrote the declaration that a child who lived through a live birth abortion remained a non-viable fetus. That declaration which devalued all life was the start of a trickle down devaluation of life in general.
Murder always saddens me, and no matter how anyone sugar coats it, murder is murder.
Sometimes we do reap what we sow.
The funny thing is if he was convicted a few months ago he’d still be alive. Now he is hell getting the sh!t beat out of him by all the kids he murdered.
I’d like names, please. And links to blogs or comments supporting the killing.
Because I’m pretty clear on the issue, and so is every respectable pro-lifer I know. But it’s a great day for you pro-choice folks, you got your opportunity to put the DHS “right-wing extremism” document into law.
I’m merely going to say the same thing that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., stated when Malcolm X was gunned down:
“Violence begetteth violence…”
Dr. Tiller was a man of violence. He met a violent end. A grieve for his family, but as the Bible states in Revelation…
“He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword…”
–Revelation 13.10
Tiller was a sizeable contributor to the liberal denomination, but that’s neither here nor there now. Damage done, and Christians and conservatives will pay a price in the media and with the pc police. And you know the current administration has its sights trained on moments like this. It’s gonna suck alright.
Maybe, but this does not excuse murder. If murder were a legitimate political/moral debating method, most of us would not be.
hey zero-CONGRATS!!!!
Hey LGM::
On June 1st, 2009 at 9:03 am, lgm said:
Not Terry Randall or Operation Rescue. Randall regrets only that Dr. Tiller did not have time to confess before being sent to meet his maker.
WRONG.
yesterday, before Drudge or CNN or Fox had the news, Operation Rescue sent out this email:
TODAY, they sent out THIS one:
PS it is Randall Terry, not Terry Randall. You’re a teacher?
Oh, and for the record, I am not UNhappy that this sOB is dead. BUT, I would have much preferred him being found fuilty in a court of law and sentenced to life imprisonment. What he lived for was evil, vile, disturbing. And now, Obama has sent ou our Federal Marshalls to protect the killers as they go about their legally allowed killing.
would not be here…
Zero congrats!!!
sonofdy – you too? (And you guys have time to post??? I am impressed!)
My sympathies to the Tiller family, and to the people in the church.
Well, you just fed LGM and all the lefties. Congrats.
The media and the PC Police are unimportant.
Apparently the ELCA Lutheran Church is liberal on abortion. Tiller was an USHER. This is from their website
I smell a Matthew Shepard moment coming…
As if we haven’t before this happened??
zeroangel!
Congrats to you both on your ‘lil angel‘!
Feeding time is in 23 minutes.
Every 3 hours for premies.
Its funny how what is important changes when you have kids. Last night was the first time I was glad to see poop because k. was constipated.
zero gets to experience this soon.
somofdy
CONGRATS!! Times two!!
Speaking of…wasn’t meconium fun? You could patch a roof leak with it!
sonofdy!
Just noticed your post.
Double congrats to you!
When will people realize that no matter what, you will be hated? You. Will. Be. Hated. Those who are right are almost never in the majority.
George Tiller’s life was just as precious as a baby’s life. It was wrong for his killer to murder him. We should strive to win people over that abortion is wrong and change the laws accordingly. We should not take the law into our own hands. Although it may be tempting, that way lies tyranny.
dittos, sonofdy.
Life-affirming, good stuff, these family thingys…
What he said!
The Left and Liberals always “rediscover” appropriate words when something happens to them. This man that gunned down Mr. Tiller is a terrorist, and rightfully so, and his act was terrorism, and should be named such. This does, however, make me wonder what the left would do, and how unhinged they’d be if the perp. was called an “insurgent” and his crime an “act of insurgency”…???
As John Brown said, “I, John Brown, am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but with Blood.”
That is between them and God. They are as entitled to their distasteful opinions as you are. Maybe they should issue a non-apology: I am sorry if anything I said offended you.
I, for one, will refrain from comment and let better Christians than I pray for Dr. Tiller.
Why is the Left all of a sudden so mad with someone who commits a murder? Aren’t we supposed to understand and have empathy for the man who murdered, well, the baby killer? Hypocrisy, they name is THE LEFT.
Does anyone note the irony in an unrepentant killer being murdered in an edifice supposedly devoted to the worship of God? Two thousand years ago, the synagogues were a “den of thieves.” What goes around, comes around. This is really an indictment of the Church, so the leftists can crow “Hypocrisy!” without fear of the pot calling the kettle black.
lgm is a hater of truth. His Father is the Devil.
Congrats to ZA!
sonofdy, glad to hear that your little ones are both home.
________________________________________
My hearfelt sympathies go out to the Tiller family.
Evil brings Evil.
Wonder if Tiller’s “New home” is within walking distance of Hitler, Saddam, or Dr. Mengel. (I am sure Mengel and Tiller could just go on for hours and hours talking about their work).
(Oh and if O’Reilly’s little online hounds are reading this for some bashing of the Conservative Blogs tonight.. feel free to use mine!!!!)
Good point.
heartfelt. Egads. Is it Friday yet?
Thank you, Michelle for allowing us the opportunity to respond to lgm’s bald-faced lie.
I’m glad they apprehended the killer of Dr. Tiller and hope he will be dealt with by the full extent of the law. This is so sad and senseless, and LGM should know better than to judge posters on this site with the broad sweeping brush he seems to wield at every opportunity. Funny, that brush never gets used when we encounter other evils in this world. In LGM’s small mind, the evils only exist in the Conservative world. It must be very claustrophobic in that tiny little pigeon hole you’ve constructed for yourself, LGM.
It will be interesting to see the left’s response to a death penalty sentence when this animal is convicted for Dr. Tillers murder.
With apologies to chapoutier, I can imagine a sleazy attorney defending Tiller’s killer arguing before the jury, “Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my client was only performing a very late term abortion.”
Murder is wrong, no matter who performs it and a life taken in the womb is just as tragic a loss as any other.
If someone believes what another is doing is wrong, they are free to take legal actions or let their disgust be known about what is being done. However, one cannot take the law into their own hands — least of all in a civilized nation.
Much in the world is worrisome to be sure, this Tiller murder will do no honest people good.
But it seems we have a baby boom going on!
Congratulations and well done.
The Grandfathers of the World salute you.
I read the AP story about this incident, hoping to find out why they believed Scott Roeder was begin the shooting. All of the evidence was from comments he’d made on the Operation Rescue message board in 2007. What was his comment? In response to a call pray for Tiller and gather outside his church, Roeder reportedly wrote:
“Bless everyone for attending and praying in May [2007?] to bring justice to Tiller and the closing of his death camp. . . . Sometime soon, would it be feasible to organize as many people as possible to attend Tillers church (inside, not just outside) to have much more of a presence and possibly ask questions of the Pastor, Deacons, Elders and members while there? Doesn’t seem like it would hurt anything but bring more attention to Tiller.”
I thought eye-witnesses would have given a description of the shooter which led the cops to this guy, but none of that is mentioned in the story. Instead, it’s all about how the authorities arrested this guy 170 miles away 3 hrs. after the shooting and how they’re trying to learn more about his background.
I don’t really trust the AP so I realize they could have just left out the important details, like maybe someone saw what kind of car he drove, but as the story is written it’s chilling. It sounds like the cops just went after this guy because he posted a comment on the Operation Rescue site 2 years ago.
What if Tiller was shot by the boyfriend, husband, or father of a victim of a botched abortion that did irreparable harm to the woman? Without better evidence than 2yr old postings on a message board, it seems as likely.
Just a word on behalf of my profession;
when a criminal defense attorney takes on the case of an obviously guilty defendant, that attorney is defending the Constitution…the process of criminal justice which limits the State’s ability to take from us our liberty or our lives. I think we all want that done.
When has the left ever been discouraged by its own dishonesty? “If you say it often enough, it becomes truth,” is their mantra. After all: perception is reality. They’ve been winning the perception war since Clinton first lied about Gennifer Flowers.
I think the best thing we can do is say nothing beyond our condemnation of the killer’s actions. Otherwise, we face the certain, “Thou dost protest too much” argument from the other side.
I just read a few published conjectures on the identity of the killer of Tiller.
If they are true, this guys is not a listener to Rush, Hannity, Beck, or Ingram, or a reader of Hot Air or Michelle’s.
He would consider them sold-out dupes.
A Freeman Militia member really is an extremist. They are very close to anarchists, and have usually totally “left the reservation”.
I’m really having a hard time grieving this man’s death. Yes, I grieve the chance he could have had if he’d lived, to repent and clear away his heart and soul, but that, folks, is about it. My questions are these:
Where’s the grief for the countless souls Mr. Tiller had sent out of this world before he had his soul sent out to face God in person? What about the numerous babies who didn’t have even the chance to breath the living air, or walk, have a life, or do all the things that we who were able to be born have had the chance to do?
Yes, I am sorry that Mr. Tiller was murdered. Murder never accomplishes anything. However, to grieve for this man is akin to grieving for Pol Pot, Saddam, or Hitler. I grievef or his family, I grieve for his children, his widow, and his bereft grandchildren (interestign that he even had grandchildren in the first place), and I will grieve the chance he missed to right his sould before the LORD. However, his legacy and his life will not be grieved by this concerned American living Abroad….
Another small observation.
We can predict…as some here have…the renewed howls for gun control, hate-crime laws, and abortion mill special protections.
One thing that I think you can count on coming from this will be a MAJOR FAIRNESS DOCTRINE PUSH.
I hope the suspect’s background is thoroughly dug into.
Stop and think…which “side” in the abortion “debate” benefits from this action?
Yep.
Ragspierre: I didn’t include an apology to you along with chap as I was not aware you too are an attorney.
I fully support attorneys who protect their client’s civil rights in the courts — it is their job to do so. However, I have seen too many that instead of defending the Constitution, look for silly points that can get their client ‘off the hook.’
Case in point, the OJ trial. “If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit.” Had I been on the prosecution team, I would have bought every one of the juror’s a nice pair of leather gloves that fit them snugly, I would then have soaked them in blood and let them dry out. Finally, I would have had them slip on a latex glove and try to once again put on the glove. What’s your next argument, Mr. Cochran? Care to talk about those ‘ugly-a$$’ shoes Mr. Simpson never owned?
Bingo!
It will probably be the only time the liberals will support the death penalty.
Has The One condemned any other murders this week?
Whether you call it vigilantism or domestic terrorism, there is no place for it in a civilized society as we claim to be.
The murder of Tiller should be condemned by all and should NOT be used by anyone to make political hay! Such actions are as reprehensible as the murder of Tiller. However, there are a number of selfish, self-centered people these days who will do precisely that. They are the ones who need to be exposed for the bad people they are so that they will be marginalized and shunned.
That was a great case in point. I thought the OJ defense team did their job well. They could have been beaten, and you suggest a good demonstration. They should have been beaten. The problem was the prosecutors were too engaged in office sex and fame to represent their clients properly, and the judge was a camera whore, too. But you can’t fault the defense; they did what we expect them to do.
The info Gateway Pundit had up yesterday indicates the same.
This was not terrorism. Terrorism invokes terror by heedlessly killing innocents and causing destruction. This was a one man vigilante.
Seeing this comment just above my mine (@ #93) jogged my memory of the President’s speech at Notre Dame and a question it provoked. If abortion is “OK”, why should we seek to reduce the number of so-called “unwanted” pregnancies?
Sorry, missed some of the quote. My comment #95 was agreeing with Ragspierre’s #85.
What I’m finding interesting is how many on the left, in places like Kos, DU, etc, are all of a sudden for using the death penalty on Roeder.
zeroangel,
Congratulations on your new son!
sonofdy,
Happy to hear about your twins!
Gosh, it looks to me like, “Tiller the baby killer” received a very late-term abortion; you know what they say, “Live by the sword…”