The DHS “right-wing extremism” report and the Holocaust shooter

By Michelle Malkin  •  June 11, 2009 09:53 AM

Vindication! Vindication! Apologize! Apologize!

This is the gleeful mantra on the Left side of the blogosphere and cable TV.

A father/security guard/hero is dead and all these political opportunists can do is gloat about “vindication” that isn’t there.

I linked Greyhawk’s post on this issue at Mudville Gazette yesterday, but I am linking it again today. Read the whole thing. It’s updated with a powerful rejoinder from Fox News contributor Col. Ralph Peters, who takes on some of his fellow Fox colleagues parroting the “DHS report has been vindicated” propaganda.

Greyhawk reminds you of what the DHS report actually said:

DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat. These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the capabilities of extremists–including lone wolves or small terrorist cells–to carry out violence. The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.

* (U) After Operation Desert Shield/Storm in 1990-1991, some returning military veterans–including Timothy McVeigh–joined or associated with rightwing extremist groups.
* (U) A prominent civil rights organization reported in 2006 that “large numbers of potentially violent neo-Nazis, skinheads, and other white supremacists are now learning the art of warfare in the [U.S.] armed forces.”
* (U//LES) The FBI noted in a 2008 report on the white supremacist movement that some returning military veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have joined extremist groups

And who the Holocaust shooter actually is:

[Shephard] Smith and [Catherine] Herridge know they’re talking about a guy who claims to be an 89-year old WWII veteran. Unless he crashed a PT boat through the front doors of the Holocaust Museum, any military training from back in ‘42 was not a factor.

Peters’s response and video clip via Greyhawk:

“Neil, I gotta say something. On Fox News of all places in the last hour I heard that this tragic incident at the Holocaust Museum somehow validates the disgraceful report from the Department of Homeland Security warning about a terror threat from our returning veterans from Iraq or Afghanistan. Neil, this guy served in World War Two. He’s been out of the military 64 years. He wasn’t career military, he was a career nut. Ten million Americans served in World War Two, of the millions who survived are you going to put them on a terrorist watch list? It had nothing to do with the Department of Homeland Security report.”

As I said on Glenn Beck’s radio show this morning, the Holocaust Museum shooter was an equal-opportunity hater and a lifetime loon.

More from Tom Maguire.

See what others have said

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Trackbacks

  1. This ain’t Hell, but you can see it from here » Blog Archive » Vindication
  2. Profile of a Hero: Stephen Tyrone Johns « Frugal Café Blog Zone
  3. Dangerous Kook Agreed with Kostards and Jeremiah Wright on most Things « Teh Resistance Blog
  4. McCarthyism, Obama-Style « NEOAVATARA
  5. At Least 2 Shot Inside Holocaust Museum in Washington DC - Shooter James Von Brunn in custody, RI{tephen Tyrone Johns | Fire Andrea Mitchell!
  6. JABbering Stooge :: Proving DHS right :: June :: 2009
  7. First Terrorist attack since 9/11 on US soil - The Angry White Guy
  8. Mudville Gazette
  9. White supremacist opens fire at Holocaust museum, kills guard « Wellsy’s World
  10. Frank Rich Declares Shep Smith’s Email Inbox To Be Reality’s Barometer | The Crowbar
  11. Republican Clichés: Steven Crowder & Alfonzo Rachel Special (video) « Frugal Café Blog Zone
  12. Michelle Malkin Outpouring of support for Dallas vet whose flags were torched… « -THE "G" BLOGS ~ Gunny G Online -

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Comments


  1. #717734
    On June 11th, 2009 at 9:57 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    I saw part of CNN last night and this really freaky looking dude, wired up hair, glasses, looked like a someone had made copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of Garrison Keillor, started labeling the right, conservatives, with this crazy shooter. It was so bad even the CNN host had to back pedal some from it.

    Guy was quite paranoid and was certain we on the right have formed armed roaming groups to take out folks like himself.

  2. #717738
    On June 11th, 2009 at 9:59 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    And of course how the report is totally out of balance, leaves out things like the black Islamic dude killing soldiers, makes the report quite suspect politically.

  3. #717739
    On June 11th, 2009 at 9:59 am, rightwingrocker said:

    I get more “this guy is one of yours” comments on my blog every time someone without a bias fires a gun at my blog, accusing conservatives like Rush and myself of whipping people into a shooting frenzy.

    So here’s a lib truther doing the same thing, and here are the libs blaming us for their own with the same rhetoric.

    More proof that the Left will blame Right-thinking people for everythig they perceive as wrong, no matter what we do.

    Therefore, we must be champions of what is right, and the libs can stick their foolishness where the sun doesn’t shine.

    RWR
    http://www.rightwingrocker.com

  4. #717741
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:00 am, Socky said:

    Truth versus Meme… unfortunately, based on our past experience, we know which one is likely to prevail.

  5. #717743
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:00 am, letget said:

    I very seldom watch Shep, but do others on Fox, and heard what Shep was saying yesterday. I finally got fed up and muted him. I was cheering when I heard Peters say what he did. I can not believe the msm is going after Rush, MM, and O’Rilley saying they instigated this horrible murder and wounding of others yesterday.
    L

  6. #717744
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:01 am, Paul Revere said:

    The media are controlled by “them Jews”, so…

    /Wright

  7. #717745
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:01 am, MTNEER said:

    Since when do facts matter to committed left wing ideologues? Procrustean logic has been around for a long time. If the facts don’t fit the your arguement, just alter the facts to fit.

  8. #717747
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:02 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    I wonder if the DOJ will issue a statement and send out law enforcement folks to protect crazy old armed white bigots in the same way after an Islamic dude shot our soldiers Mr. Holder felt like Islamic folks needed protection?

  9. #717751
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:05 am, Jarhead said:

    I am proudly wearing my Marine Veteran Extremist T-Shirt to work today. The shirt has Marine on top of the EGA under it has Veteran crossed out with Extremist in script over the Veteran. OhRah!

  10. #717752
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:06 am, sonofdy said:

    The more they try to supress conservative ideas, the more they will drive people underground. This cycle can only end in violence.

    We already see the new message. “All conservative thought is bad and must be totaly supressed.”

    Oh huffpo they are calling for the fairness doctrine and the supression of all right wing blogs to include this one. This is obamas base.

  11. #717753
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:06 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder released the following statement relating to President Obama’s historic speech today in a Spanish speaking WalMart:

    “The President’s pledge for a new beginning between the United States and the white community takes root here in the Justice Department where we are committed to using criminal and civil rights laws to protect old white armed bigoted Americans. A top priority of this Justice Department is a return to robust civil rights enforcement and outreach in defending religious freedoms and other fundamental rights of all of our fellow citizens in the workplace, in the housing market, in our schools and in the voting booth.

    “There are those who will continue to want to divide by fear – to pit our national security against our civil liberties – but that is a false choice. We have a solemn responsibility to protect our people while we also protect our principles.

    So if you are a crazy old armed white bigot please do not shoot the federal agent who has been assigned to protect you. We are there to protect your right to be a crazy old armed bigot.”

  12. #717755
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:07 am, spaceycakes said:

    he was a career nut

    That’s exactly what it boils down to; couldn’t have said it better meself.

  13. #717756
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:07 am, jangar said:

    Conservatives see the world through the lense of truth.

    Liberals see the world with blind eyes, through a crusted screen.

  14. #717758
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:08 am, et said:

    This was just an old nut who wanted to go out in a blaze of internet ‘glory’. I’m sure he knew there were armed guards and was not going to get passed them. His choice of a .22 rifle makes it a one in a hundred shot that killed the guard. In short this was a suicide by cop type event.

  15. #717759
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:09 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “This cycle can only end in violence.”

    I am afraid this may be true. But here is when I see it happening. When conservatives regain control and stop all this drive to socialism and try to restore free markets, freedom, etc. It will be the folks who think the government should take care of them who will become violent. We have seen this same pattern in Europe.

  16. #717764
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:11 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “His choice of a .22 rifle makes it a one in a hundred shot that killed the guard.”

    Having worked in a very busy inner city ER I can assure you that is an untrue assumption. .22’s are very lethal, more so than many other bigger caliber shots. It is powerful enough to penetrate but not exit. Upon penetrating it bounces around and does all kinds of unrepairable damage. Nothing about using a .22 means he was not serious. Probably just the opposite. He knew what he was doing and picked the caliber that has the most “lethal” potential.

  17. #717765
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:11 am, spaceycakes said:

    We have seen this same pattern in Europe.

    I see them breaking the law & nothing being done about it…

    Since there’s no deterrent, the mayhem will continue.

  18. #717767
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:14 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    The pattern in Europe space… is when the government attempts to get their welfare state under control, it is the recipients of the welfare that riot. Its not the folks who think you need to work for a living and get off the government hand outs that riot. The violence comes from those who are dependent and believe they deserve a handout and are victims of unfair treatment IF the socialism is stopped.

    The left are the sources for violence, not conservatives.

  19. #717770
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:17 am, Yashmak said:

    And of course how the report is totally out of balance, leaves out things like the black Islamic dude killing soldiers, makes the report quite suspect politically.

    -jsmiddleton4

    You do realize, that there are and have been other DHS reports addressing other groups such as liberals, muslims, etc. right? This isn’t the only report outlining potential sources of home-grown terror attacks out there.

  20. #717776
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:21 am, rowsdower said:

    This is a part of a continuing effort by the left/media/administration hive to make anyone to the right of William Ayers and the Teleprompter enemies of the state.They’re laying the groundwork for the future. Unfortunately,this is a time-old story of gradually ramping up intimidation of political opponents that ends up in a inevitably predictable, ugly scenario.

  21. #717783
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:23 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    Yas…..

    The point is about coverage and what the DHS has held press conferences to discuss. Not what may or may not exist under the radar.

    Did they have a press conference to announce Islamic groups or types that the DOJ and DHS now consider dangerous?

    If so I missed it.

    Any time something is “out of balance” that “out of balance” is a symptom of bias. Like when you catch your kid doing something wrong and it is always someone else’s fault? 100% their fault, 0 percent mine. It being out of balance is a symptom, an indication of a bias.

    The current DHS/DOJ is out of balance. Too heavy on “right wing” and too light on everything and everyone else.

    Being out of balance is a symptom of their bias. Yet they are suppose to be for ALL Americans? Oh, really?

  22. #717782
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:23 am, cubbiegal said:

    I’m an on again/off again Jewish born Christian.
    I’ve got my Magen David on today in a show of solidarity -and I’m wearing red/white/blue.
    I also have a “Proud Member of the Right-Wing Conspiracy” pin.
    That’ll confuse ‘em.

  23. #717787
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:27 am, chapoutier said:

    The point is about coverage and what the DHS has held press conferences to discuss. Not what may or may not exist under the radar.

    Did they have a press conference to announce Islamic groups or types that the DOJ and DHS now consider dangerous?

    If so I missed it.

    I don’t recall a press conference regarding the right wing extremist memo. Maybe there was one defending it after the uproar about it. But not one trumpeting its existence.

  24. #717790
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am, NJ-Aviator said:

    Ralph Peters made a great point. He said a question that no one has asked to that point was about that brave guard that died saving lives… Was he a military Veteran?

    Apparently, the left only wants to know if the shooter was in the military. Hypocrisy. It’s what liberals are all about.

  25. #717791
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:30 am, AuntiEm said:

    You have to wonder if there wasn’t a more recent photo. Media trying to ignore his age and portray him as relevant to the political climate?

  26. #717795
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am, Ragspierre said:

    A couple of conclusions on my part–

    Shep Smith is a man-boob. Not necessarily in that order…

    The killer…whose name should be spoken not at all, as befits our contempt…was more aligned with Islamo-terrorists than with anyone on the right end of the political spectrum. He would…he did…kill Christian or Jew with equal abandon.

    The statists are coming out in full howl now, dropping any pretense at being civil libertarians. As with so many of their positions, it was always just a pose, adopted to make an argument or support a position. Another lie.

  27. #717802
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:37 am, englishqueen01 said:

    You do realize, that there are and have been other DHS reports addressing other groups such as liberals, muslims, etc. right? This isn’t the only report outlining potential sources of home-grown terror attacks out there.

    Yes, but liberals have no problem defending nutters who fit those reports as lone actors, random cases, and wholly unconnected from the ideologies of any liberal/Muslim/animal rights/etc. group. The military recruiter killer in Arkansas? A loner.

    Not the same case with nutters who have even the most tenuous connections to possible conservative causes.

    Scott Roeder is now the poster child for the pro-life movement.

    Von Brunn is now the poster child for right-wingers.

    And all of us are somehow complicit in pulling the trigger.

  28. #717804
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:38 am, iamsaved said:

    Beware those right wing Christians and veterans. These are the radicals we must watch. No need to worry about those peace loving Muslims.

    Now a word from our daily Qur’an reading:

    Qur’an 4:94-5 004.094 “Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in the Cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you peace: ‘You are not a believer,’ seeking and coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil them). With Allah are abundant profits, plentiful spoils and booty.”
    “Muslims, when you leave Arabia to fight and rob those who don’t worship me, don’t accept a peace offering and leave a potential victim alone. Rather, conquer them, for therein lies the
    greatest potential for profit. And always remember, you are a mercenary and that I have seduced you.”

    004.095 “Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard [Jihad], fighting in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard [Jihad], fighting with their wealth and bodies to those who sit (at home). Unto each has Allah promised good, but He prefers those [Jihadists] who strive hard and fight above those [pacifists] who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward.”

  29. #717805
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:39 am, jangar said:

    I don’t recall a press conference regarding the right wing extremist memo. Maybe there was one defending it after the uproar about it. But not one trumpeting its existence.

    Of course not. It wasn’t supposed to get out there like it did.

  30. #717808
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:39 am, RogerCfromSD said:

    The DHS has been turned into an extremist organization by woman who is ill-suited for her position.

    As for screaming libs, let them scream. They are hysterical ideologues who act childishly on TV in their Marshall’s suits and skirts.

    It is silly how they behave. Instead of reporting news, they just sneer and try to score political points. How friggen childish.

    I ignore that circus.

  31. #717810
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am, lgm said:

    A father/security guard/hero is dead and all these political opportunists can do is gloat about “vindication” that isn’t there.

    One could say the same thing about this post.

  32. #717813
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:42 am, Ragspierre said:

    One could say the same thing about this post.

    One COULD say any damn, disjointed, stupid thing…

  33. #717815
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am, right4life said:

    Now a word from our daily HOLY Qur’an reading:

    per our President….or as they would say in the HOLY Quran SHEIKH

  34. #717818
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:46 am, AuntiEm said:

    I’m really gettin paranoid. With the WHO about to announce a pandemic, the paragraph that stood out was about authorities perhaps forbidding large groups of people congregating. Just in time for July 4th tea parties?

  35. #717820
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am, John Deaux said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am, lgm said:

    Find a post like this at a lefty site.

    Those stubborn facts keep getting in the way of your argument, don’t they?

  36. #717821
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am, DagneyT said:

    I heard you on Glenn, Michelle. Great job!

    I wish I could say Shepard Smith’s remarks surprised me, but I’ve known he’s a closet liberal all along! Same with Herridge. Hubby never agreed with me until this came to light!

    We should all e-mail him and complain!

  37. #717823
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:52 am, cpodug said:

    RogerC, it’s not a wise thing to ignore your enemies. You HAVE to know what he’s thinking, saying, and liable to do. It might seem distasteful, but it is one of the fundamental maxims of military strategy.

    If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. – Sun Tzu(The Art of War)

    And if you doubt that this is a war, wake up!

  38. #717825
    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:53 am, rowsdower said:

    Hey, legume.The Holocaust Museum shooter was anti- Bush. I blame you for the shooting.

  39. #717831
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:01 am, happyscrapper said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:00 am, letget said:
    I very seldom watch Shep, but do others on Fox, and heard what Shep was saying yesterday. I finally got fed up and muted him. I was cheering when I heard Peters say what he did. I can not believe the msm is going after Rush, MM, and O’Rilley saying they instigated this horrible murder and wounding of others yesterday.
    L

    So it was Shep Smith who said it…not surprising I didn’t know that since I don’t watch that hack. He is way left of center and I don’t like his style at all. Why would he say such a dumb thing? Seriously, it is absolute nonsense and even he should know better!

  40. #717833
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:04 am, DagneyT said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 9:57 am, jsmiddleton4 said:

    I saw part of CNN

    So you’re the one!

  41. #717834
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am, J S Ragman said:

    I know this is off topic, but can somebody tell me why we don’t send the 17 Uighurs at Gitmo back to China? I mean, the Chinese are asking for them, and I suspect they would know how to handle them. So what’s the problem?

  42. #717835
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:08 am, cabrerski said:

    The DOJ/DHS will continue to suppress any attempts by law enforcement to profile based on:

    1. Race (except whites)
    2. Nationality (except native-born Americans)
    3. Beliefs (except Christians)
    4. Voting records (except conservatives)

    The point is they have plenty of extremists to go after on both sides…I fear this is a way to intimidate a large number of people who do not share the party-in-power’s beliefs. I do not trust Holder/Napolitano or their master plan.

  43. #717843
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:13 am, englishqueen01 said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am, lgm said:

    A father/security guard/hero is dead and all these political opportunists can do is gloat about “vindication” that isn’t there.

    One could say the same thing about this post.

    Yes, because it would take your dizzying logic to equate people who are salivating at the mouth to throw folks like me in Gitmo (based on the vague DHS report) with the people who are attempting to denounce this nutjob and defend conservatives.

    What we’re doing is not “vindication”; we’re merely pointing out – yet again – that Von Brunn doesn’t represent conservatism any more than Scott Roeder represents pro-lifers.

  44. #717847
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am, chapoutier said:

    Find a post like this at a lefty site.

    Here’s one from the leftiest of lefty sites.

    Here.

  45. #717852
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:17 am, Freddy said:

    It looks to me that this killer was actually LEFT wing. His web site was/is actually against the US govt (like Bush), and against major corporations (like Barney Frank) and he questioned 9/11 (like Code Pink). He is clearly anti-sematic, like J Wright.

    So now we have the ‘expert media’ calling him RIGHT wing???.

  46. #717861
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:24 am, granite said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am, John Deaux said:

    Find a post like this at a lefty site.

    Did you mean an individual post/comment?

    Or did you mean a thread/topic for discussion like the example you linked to?

  47. #717862
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:24 am, englishqueen01 said:

    So now we have the ‘expert media’ calling him RIGHT wing?

    Because it fits the meme, Freddy!

    When a liberal, or a liberal constituent group, commits a crime they either act alone or were forced to do so by poverty, racism, or some other perceived injustice. The perpetrator is usually always a victim, and his victim gets little recognition or sympathy.

    Only conservatives are hateful and commit crimes out of hatred and malice.

  48. #717872
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:29 am, happyscrapper said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am, J S Ragman said:
    I know this is off topic, but can somebody tell me why we don’t send the 17 Uighurs at Gitmo back to China? I mean, the Chinese are asking for them, and I suspect they would know how to handle them. So what’s the problem?

    Exactly what I was thinking! Why don’t we let them handle their own?? More stupidity from the Chicago Thug Master in Charge.

  49. #717875
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:32 am, MCGusto said:

    It’s a stretch to say that the report is vindicated based on his WWII record. However, the report did specifically mention antisemitism and white supremacist groups.

  50. #717876
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:33 am, Ragspierre said:

    I suspect they would know how to handle them. So what’s the problem?

    Your suspicion (or the certainty) is the problem. Seems more like a solution to me…

  51. #717878
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:36 am, happyscrapper said:

    So now we have the ‘expert media’ calling him RIGHT wing???.

    I just asked my husband that question the other night! Why the lable of “right winger” for someone like this? How does that even apply?? Is it simply because he was military and owned a gun? His other beliefs and attitudes are definitely NOT right wing or conservative. Personally, I found his anti-semitism and his anti-war sentiments to be much more left-wing! And, he is certainly NOT pro-life!

  52. #717881
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am, Mister P said:

    Actually my 89 year old mother is upset because she is now a suspected terrorist.

  53. #717882
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:40 am, happyscrapper said:

    the report did specifically mention antisemitism and white supremacist groups.

    And just who is more antisemitic than the left?? Seriously? Obama is throwing Israel under the bus as we speak. And aren’t the Black Panthers a muslim organization…not exactly fans of the Jews. This whole Right-Wing blanket is very disingenuous. Most of the extremists, except for the pro-life nutters, are more left-wing than not.

  54. #717885
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:41 am, happyscrapper said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am, Mister P said:
    Actually my 89 year old mother is upset because she is now a suspected terrorist.

    Tell her to stand up and be proud!! She is on the side of right.

  55. #717887
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:43 am, chapoutier said:

    His other beliefs and attitudes are definitely NOT right wing or conservative.

    He was vehemently anti-federal government. Recall he tried to kidnap the head of the Federal Reserve. I would say that is:

    1) right wing; and
    2) irrelevant to his antisemitism.

  56. #717889
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:45 am, Ragspierre said:

    He’s an interesting exercise…

    How does the Museum killer differ from Ward Churchill’s viewpoints?

    What makes his thinking different from Louis Farrakhan?

    If you put him in a tenured position at a major university, would he fit in with the other anti-Israel, anti-Christian, anti-Bush, anti-American types populating his department?

  57. #717895
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am, Ragspierre said:

    He’s an interesting exercise…

    How does the Museum killer differ from Ward Churchill’s viewpoints?

  58. #717896
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am, Ragspierre said:

    What makes his thinking different from Louis Farrakhan?

    If you put him in a tenured position at a major university, would he fit in with the other anti-Israel, anti-Christian, anti-Bush, anti-American types populating his department?

  59. #717897
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:47 am, Ragspierre said:

    If you put him in a tenured position at a major university, would he fit in with the other anti-Israel, anti-Christian, anti-Bush, anti-American types populating his department?

  60. #717905
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:50 am, Ragspierre said:

    He was vehemently anti-federal government. Recall he tried to kidnap the head of the Federal Reserve.

    So, the anti-free-trade and anti-G-20 types are RIGHT wingers…????

    Silly.

  61. #717908
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:52 am, sonofdy said:

    He was vehemently anti-federal government. Recall he tried to kidnap the head of the Federal Reserve. I would say that is:

    1) right wing; and
    2) irrelevant to his antisemitism.

    He also hates bush and neo-cons. Is part of the truther group, and hates israel. All left wing.

  62. #717914
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:55 am, vinny said:

    The only reason he is being identified as a right wing extremist, is because the left wing media want to attack conservative Americans. There is nothing right wing or conservative about national socialists. They believe that if they scream nonsense often and loud enough, that it will be more believable, and some will become hypnotized by this mantra. Reality needs a voice too. Thanks Michelle, for your contributions to this voice.

  63. #717918
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:56 am, John Deaux said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:15 am, chapoutier said:

    Here’s one from the leftiest of lefty sites.

    I must admit that I am surprised by this. However, I strongly suspect that it’s because they think the killer is a “right wing” extremist.

    In either case, it’s nice to see that the man’s sacrifice is being honored.

  64. #717924
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am, chapoutier said:

    So, the anti-free-trade and anti-G-20 types are RIGHT wingers…????

    I don’t buy the comparisons. But in any case I would say that the anti-G-20 types don’t know what the hell they are.

    I don’t know how it is debatable this guy was right wing. Do you think this guy supports expanded federal government and entitlement programs? Think he supports gun control?

    But whatever. Ultimately I think this is irrelevant to his antisemitism.

  65. #717925
    On June 11th, 2009 at 11:59 am, Ragspierre said:

    In either case, it’s nice to see that the man’s sacrifice is being honored.

    Yes, it is. Totally fitting.

    Where, though is the analog of Michelle’s post on Hufferpro or Kosco? I dun see them, Looocy.

  66. #717930
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pm, chapoutier said:

    He also hates bush and neo-cons.

    So do many here.

    Is part of the truther group

    And a part of the “birther” group, as are many here.

    and hates israel.

    I’d say that is a logical corollary to his hatred of Jews in general.

    All left wing.

    Obviously I disagree.

  67. #717931
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:03 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I don’t know how it is debatable this guy was right wing. Do you think this guy supports expanded federal government and entitlement programs?

    Much less than was George W. Bush, or John McAnus.

    Think he supports gun control?

    Very likely, as with most statists I have known, he supports gun control for others. If you could ask him today, he might favor outright weapon prohibition for security guards…

  68. #717936
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:06 pm, brad_sk said:

    A father/security guard/hero is dead and all these political opportunists can do is gloat about “vindication” that isn’t there.

    Just like you and your extremist friends cry out out loud when an illegal immigrant attacks someone. Both the “left” and “right” is filled with loonies like yourself who try to take advantage of any situation.

  69. #717946
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:12 pm, moonshot said:

    We have a large diverse group here at my work and everyone was talking about this when I got here. Everyone agrees that the DHS Report(that we shouldn’t have seen btw)was pretty spot on…and we all believe there is much more to come.(much worse than this tragedy) It won’t matter at all what blogs say such as this one or Kos since most people don’t know such blogs exists anyway.
    They’re taking in this tragedy and the anti-abortion murderer and the cop killer etc and remembering that DHS report they read about in the newspapers a while back.

  70. #717947
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm, iamsaved said:

    I don’t know how it is debatable this guy was right wing. Do you think this guy supports expanded federal government and entitlement programs? Think he supports gun control?

    Sounds like your saying the liberals march in lock step to every point on their liberal check list and have no views contrary to the liberal mantra.

    Your brushing them with a broad brush stroke to imply that all liberals are for expanded federal government or that all liberals believe in gun control (usually they believe in it with a hypocritcal for thee but not for me attitude as witnessed by the rich liberals who can afford armed protection).

    But then again, maybe you are right in painting liberals as robots who have no independent thought outside of what the left leaning Democratic Party dictates.

  71. #717949
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Both the “left” and “right” is filled with loonies like yourself who try to take advantage of any situation.

    So, when criminal illegal aliens (I know, slightly redundant) kill members of our communities, and we deplore that publicly and ask our elected representatives to do something effective to stop it, we are taking “advantage of the situation”?

    When are we allowed to speak?

    Contrast the use of ANY shooting crime with renewed calls to intrude into the rights of self-defense of Americans.

    See the difference?

  72. #717960
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “Maybe there was one defending it after the uproar about it.”

    Actually more than one.

    There are more than left and right “wings” folks. This guy is in neither wing. It makes no sense by folks from either group to put this guy into the other folks group.

    He is neither left nor right wing.

    He is a nut case and if anything he borders on being an anarchist.

  73. #717961
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pm, chapoutier said:

    Sounds like your saying the liberals march in lock step to every point on their liberal check list and have no views contrary to the liberal mantra.

    Not at all. But one cannot say that the terms “liberal” or “conservative” or “right” or “left” are meaningless, either.

  74. #717978
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:26 pm, b-cat said:

    He is a nut case and if anything he borders on being an anarchist.

    You are the closest in analyzing this. I have known nazi skinheads. They are usually somewhat anti-social and are quite comfortable hanging out with the punk rock types, who are rabidly leftwing. The skinheads hate the left and right, because neither really meshes with their distorted views on race. The really hardcore skinhead is a very scary and dangerous individual. He is neither a conservative or liberal per se.

    I must admit to never having met an avowed 89 year old skinhead.

  75. #717979
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:26 pm, James Felix said:

    His choice of a .22 rifle makes it a one in a hundred shot that killed the guard.

    Actually, .22LR, .25 and .32 are all lethal rounds. Though they lack the shock and “one-shot stop” power of .45acp they have a tendency to ricochet around inside the body and cause a lot of damage. Remember the mayhem and body counts in New York City during the dark days of the 70’s? The vast majority of that was caused by thugs with small-calibre handguns.

    A bit off-topic, I know, but I hate to let a misconception stand.

  76. #717981
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:27 pm, Laree said:

    This is one of the best cartoons I have viewed representing Obama and the Media’s relationship.

    http://chickaboomer.blogspot.com/2009/06/political-corruption-roundup.html

  77. #717984
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:29 pm, yohannbiimu said:

    Meanwhile, Obama equates the Holocaust with Jewish Israeli policies in its struggle against Muslim terrorism (with so-called “Palestinians”).

    Meanwhile, Obama’s “mentor” (his pastor Jeremiah Wright) recently said that he hadn’t had any contact with him recently, and it was because of “them Jews.”

    If there is any Antisemitism, division, and utter hatred in this country, it is the left. This is simply more projection.

  78. #717994
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:32 pm, chapoutier said:

    Contrast the use of ANY shooting crime with renewed calls to intrude into the rights of self-defense of Americans.

    See the difference?

    No. It certainly matters how you phrase it. For example:

    “Oh look. A right-winger killed a guy. The DHS report was right.” (Set aside for a moment the little side debate on whether or not he was right wing)

    “Oh look. An illegal immigrant killed a little girl. We must build a wall now.”

    Both are using the event to push forward their political agenda.

    And frankly, I am okay with either. To the family and friends of this murder it is certainly a personal tragedy. To the rest of us? We may send our most sincere condolences and prayers to the family, but beyond that, for his any death and sacrifice to have any meaning to us we almost HAVE to politicize it. We have to examine why such a thing happened and what, if any decisions we can make as a society to ever prevent it from happening again. And decisions mean politics. I think it is absolutely legitimate for those that believe in greater immigration enforcement to point to the examples they do. And I think it is just as legitimate for pro-choice people to wonder aloud whether some of the rhetoric surrounding the debate leads to an environment where the murder of abortion providers is, if not explicitly, then at least tacitly encouraged.

    Of course, there is a time and a place. I, nor any decent person, would never walk up to the family and start spewing off about whether or not the killer was a leftist or a right winger. And certainly, any sort of “Hah hah! He was one of yours!” type talk from either side is inappropriate. But, if anything positive is going to grow out of a tragedy, debate about the circumstances surrounding such incidents is, in my mind, entirely proper.

  79. #718017
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:45 pm, rambler said:

    I watched Shep’s melt down yesterday and thought that it was unprofessional. He had a similar melt down after Katina. I don’t know why he was so upset about the hate he saw since there’s lots of hate to go around these days. The left seems to over look the hate coming from their side since they justify it to ram their opinions down the throats of others. The left can’t win a debate without resorting to sleezy attacks. When it comes to jihadies, the left wants to cuddle and understand them. I don’t see any of them wanting to cuddle the white nut shooter. The left needs to take a hard look at themselves and the hate they spew. In the end, hate never advances a culture.

  80. #718022
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:47 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Well, Chaps, my regard for you just fell considerably.

    Sorry for you.

  81. #718026
    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:52 pm, chapoutier said:

    Well, Chaps, my regard for you just fell considerably.

    In what way? Perhaps the word “politicize” is wrong. But the point I was trying to make is that, while using someone’s death as a pawn in a partisan pissing contest is wrong, that doesn’t mean we should not close our eyes to conclusions and opinions to be drawn from a tragedy. It can be an opportunity for debate. Otherwise, we would never have things like Megan’s Law.

    Take that as you will, your regard or lack thereof form me not withstanding.

  82. #718055
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:06 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Chaps:

    I got your main point; its just politics, either way…no difference.

    That is morally bankrupt.

    Gandhi, then, was no different than Stalin. Just politics…no difference.

    It was the first thing you said, and that is NOT insignificant.

  83. #718072
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:13 pm, chapoutier said:

    I got your main point; its just politics, either way…no difference.

    That is morally bankrupt.

    Only if you think our politics and policies don’t (or rather shouldn’t) reflect our morality.

    Gandhi, then, was no different than Stalin. Just politics…no difference.

    That is so insanely nonsequiter, I don’t even know where to begin.

    Just answer me this: Do you really intellectually honestly think that when MM posts one of her many posts about an illegal killing someone or committing some other crime, she is not doing that for the express purpose of pushing her political agenda on immigration?

  84. #718076
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:14 pm, sonofdy said:

    MOONSHOT, you had better watch out then because almost everyone on this website is considered a right wing terrorist by that memo. I for one will not be stomped on by liars and left wing haters like you.

  85. #718084
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:19 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “You are the closest in analyzing this.”

    Then my work here is done for the day….

  86. #718087
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:19 pm, chapoutier said:

    MOONSHOT, you had better watch out then because almost everyone on this website is considered a right wing terrorist by that memo.

    That is simply not true. The report specifically linked the definition to participation in violent activity. No where was someone that merely held anti-abortion views or anti-(illegal) immigration views or what have you, defined as a terrorist.

  87. #718097
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:23 pm, Ragspierre said:

    That is so insanely nonsequiter, I don’t even know where to begin.

    People here can read, Chaps.

  88. #718100
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:25 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    “…never having met an avowed 89 year old skinhead.”

    He could just be nuts you know? 89, pre-alzheimers or dementia NUTS.

    Trying to make him “this” or “that” when he probably is just crazy is a waste of time.

    I have patients on a regular basis who up until something “happened” they were gentle, patient, loving people. Part of the symptom of their senile dementia is these formally loving and caring people go totally out of balance and become mean, hateful, vengeful and violent.

    This guy obviously had issues for some time but something kept him constrained until now.

    Armed crazy bigot who finally degraded mentally until shooting an innocent person at the Holocaust museum seemed like the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with politics. Either side making it about the politics of the other side is absurd.

    As they say in the industry, “You can’t fix crazy.”

  89. #718107
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:26 pm, chapoutier said:

    People here can read, Chaps.

    That’s super, but since the post was directed at me and not the people, do me the favor of attempting to explain either what your point was or how what I said was in any way an attempt to compare Ghandi to Stalin.

  90. #718116
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:30 pm, John Deaux said:

    On June 11th, 2009 at 12:12 pm, moonshot said:
    We have a large diverse group here at my work and everyone was talking about this when I got here. Everyone agrees that the DHS Report(that we shouldn’t have seen btw)was pretty spot on…and we all believe there is much more to come.(much worse than this tragedy)

    So how is that job at MSNBC?

  91. #718119
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:31 pm, chapoutier said:

    It has nothing to do with politics. Either side making it about the politics of the other side is absurd.

    Not sure if that was directed at me but, again, not what I was saying. The motives for a crime may or may not have been political. Our response to what, if anything is an appropriate response or remedy to such almost certainly is.

    For example, a drunk illegal immigrant was probably not making a political staement when he gets loaded and gets behind the wheel. But the ensuing tragedy certainly has relevance to the very real discussion about immigration enforcement.

    Pedophiles come in all political persuasions and their actions are not political, but the debate between a person’s privacy and a parent’s right to know about potential predators on their street certainly is political.

  92. #718128
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:35 pm, jsmiddleton4 said:

    I think you are dismissing the impact of the report chaps….

    I am a voting politically active white pro-life Christian evangelical pro-gun conservative Vietnam era vet. I don’t like the IRS and I wish Obama would fail. I support the military and I think the border should be shut down and illegal immigration stopped immediately using our military if necessary to secure our border. I think the war on terrorism is a WAR and not a police action. I think the government is too big and each time it grows it at the same time by its existence takes away some of my freedom and liberty. I actively am involved in any means possible to reduce the size of government and its intrusion into my life. I am more like the founders of this country than I am like the current crop of leaders in Washington.

    My profile puts me smack dab on the DHS list.

    I don’t take too kindly to who I am, what I am, being on any list the government assembles for risky individuals regardless of what the DHS intention is. And as of yet the DHS has still not produced any observable facts that support their conclusions as in who is recruiting, how many are being recruited, where are they being recruited from and to, etc.

    Yet racial profiling is a malignancy to be avoided?

    Kinda inconsistent wouldn’t you say?

  93. #718129
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:35 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Many of the extremists I’ve known…and I’ve known some doozies…were intensely intelligent people.

    Many were radicalized by their experience, and the killer in question was apparently one.

    They accept false premises, and they roll with them. Like any computer, the rational human mind is a “garbage in–garbage out” system, regardless of the power of the engine crunching the premises.

    This guy has been off-the-charts extreme for decades. He was a felon, and, if gun laws worked, he would never have had a firearm.

    His hatred knew no bounds, and he was a danger to EVERYBODY.

    Thank God the guards were armed, and had the guts to stop him when and where they did.

  94. #718136
    On June 11th, 2009 at 1:39 pm, sonofdy said:

    jsmiddleton4

    You just described me as well except for the veitnam bit.

    Try Bosnia, Macedonia, and soon somewhere else.

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