What will happen next if cap-and-tax passes? Updated
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Welcome to the opposite of stimulus. Via Bloomberg:
America’s biggest oil companies will probably cope with U.S. carbon legislation by closing fuel plants, cutting capital spending and increasing imports.
Under the Waxman-Markey climate bill that may be voted on today by the U.S. House, refiners would have to buy allowances for carbon dioxide spewed from their plants and from vehicles when motorists burn their fuel. Imports would need permits only for the latter, which ConocoPhillips Chief Executive Officer Jim Mulva said would create a competitive imbalance.
“It will lead to the opportunity for foreign sources to bring in transportation fuels at a lower cost, which will have an adverse impact to our industry, potential shutdown of refineries and investment and, ultimately, employment,” Mulva said in a June 16 interview in Detroit. Houston-based ConocoPhillips has the second-largest U.S. refining capacity.
The same amount of gasoline that would have $1 in carbon costs imposed if it were domestic would have 10 cents less added if it were imported, according to energy consulting firm Wood Mackenzie in Houston. Contrary to President Barack Obama’s goal of reducing dependence on overseas energy suppliers, the bill would incent U.S. refiners to import more fuel, said Clayton Mahaffey, an analyst at RedChip Cos. in Maitland, Florida.
“They’ll be searching the globe for refined products that don’t carry the same level of carbon costs,” said Mahaffey, a former Exxon Corp. refinery manager.
Prices Seen Rising
One in six U.S. refineries probably would close by 2020 as the cost of carbon allowances erases profits, according to the American Petroleum Institute, a Washington trade group known as API. Carbon permits would add 77 cents a gallon to the price of gasoline, said Russell Jones, the API’s senior economic adviser.
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Heritage analysis of the economic impact of Waxman-Markey cap and trade: Read here.
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Trackbacks
- Gazzer’s Gabfest » Cap and trade/bait and switch…what’s the diff?
- The Oncoming Disaster that is Cap-And-Trade « NEOAVATARA
- how do you feel about the Waxman-Markeys cap-and-trade provisions? - FlyerTalk Forums
- PunditKix
- Pelosi Pounding Drum Louder for Cap-and-Trade Vote, WSJ Exposes What Americans Will Pay for Waxman-Markey Energy Bill « Frugal Café Blog Zone
- Who’s Read This?? Waxman Just Added 300 More Pages to H.R. 2454, Waxman-Markey Energy Tax Bill (video) « Frugal Café Blog Zone
- Ed Driscoll » 2009: A Smoot-Hawley Odyssey
- A look into the future if Crap and Tax passes HR 2454 | Fire Andrea Mitchell!
- Just How Bad Is the HR 2454 Energy Tax Bill? Greenpeace Won’t Back It « Frugal Café Blog Zone
- FACTS: WHY VOTE AGAINST CAP & TRADE (HR2454) « FactReal
- Michelle Malkin » What will happen next if cap-and-tax passes?
- Cap-and-Trade Passes in House: And Exactly Why Do These Eight Reps Call Themselves Republicans? « Quick Daily Hits — Politics and Such
- Cap and Trade Passes Despite Climate Changing on Climate Change | The Great Illuminator
- Will that be cash, credit or fossil fuel? « Finding Ponies…
- Cap-and-Trade’s Narrow Passage and Faltering Evidence for Climate Change Have Supporters Ratcheting Up Attacks « Quick Daily Hits — Politics and Such
- Vote Against Cap-and-Trade ‘Betraying the Planet’, says NY Times — The Truth Is, Vote For Cap-and-Trade Is Betraying Your Kids and Grandkids « Quick Daily Hits — Politics and Such
- “Sea of Propaganda” - Smart Girl Nation
- “Sea of Propaganda” | nFiniteEcho.com
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A mass exodus of jobs and industry?
this isn’t a bug in their plan, it’s a feature.
And passing those savings along to the consumer, I’m certain!
/sarc off
This is truly very scary.
I can’t remember being so troubled by a tax law.
This will change EVERYTHING.
IT MUST BE STOPPED.
How much damage could be done before we could change this in 4 years? Insurmountable?
Is this why obama is moving so fast on so many socialistic and fascist programs?
The left is absolutely GLEEFUL about the cost of gas going up. I recall Obama saying $5 gas is actually a good thing. They want to drive the country to a halt.
The Great Depression is going to look like an economic boom compared to what Obama is about to bring about.
The irony of this insanity is that Bloomberg himself supports this and Obama..the above article is almost a “ha ha-this how you are going to get screwed” piece.
Why do these bastards want to ruin our country?
Why are they so hell-bent on destroying our economy?
Please, by the way Obama’s spending, the country will be owned by China and they’ll scrap this nonsense.
And who is providing these “CARBON CREDITS” to purchase?
Al Gore? (to add to his $100 MILLION net profit from bogus global warming, the worlds largest scam…EVER)
or maybe these ’sellers’ of CC’s.
GE?
Obama’s friends?
Can I open a carbon tax dealership?
to make everyone EQUAL…it’s FAIR.
SPREAD THE WEALTH…the obama way, by destroying wealth.
If you can’t make the poor rich, make the rich poor, or even it out.
Moreover… it will sow the seeds of revolution – again. This time, we will be fighting against a home grown “parliament/Monarchy”…. They WILL fall hard.
Even some Democrats, however reluctantly, are beginning to realize the devastation that cap and trade would present to the coal fields of KY and WV.
we’ll never get rid of Pelosi, Reid, Obama, etc.
@shooter #9
also Nancy Pelosi- she and her husband are supposed to be profiting big time from this. She invested heavily in BOone Pickens company.
Isn’t there supposed to be some law where these guys are not allowed to know where there $$$ is invested so that they can’t use that to influence legislation???
Because they are “set”… this bill doesn’t affect them. They will get taken care of by anyone who benefited from this. The rest of us can eat S&^% and die for all they care. That’s the reality.
As Obama stated yesterday, this is a “jobs” bill. Yeah, like Hitler’s “Final Solution” was a “life” plan for Jews.
Hear! Hear!
Just remember, under the new American Oligarchy, some will be more equal than others.
Michelle, what are the chances of this legislation passing the Senate? I know, we don’t want it to get that far, but if it does, is there a chance for reason over there? (Did I just say “reason”?)
Shooter, I know you were being sarcastic…I should have included your whole quote, sorry if it made it appear out of context
It is radical environmentalist’s wet dream. Destroyed Economy => Lower standard of living => Lower fuel consumption => Good for environment.
After the full impact of the intended and unintended consequences becomes evident, none of these elected officials will be keeping their jobs.
If bho, team, and the D’s get all they are pushing, it won’t be long till there are NO business or working people to pay taxes. Then what do they do? Give all of us a small plot of land to grow veggies, a few chickens, a cow for milk, and we MUST share what we have with everyone. It seems I have heard this happened someplace in the past. God, Please help us and our Republic.
L
Prayers are all we have left. Neither Dems nor Repubs are listening to their constituents. Say hello to your new masters.
May I suggest reading Saul Alinsky’s, “Rules for Radicals” to understand what they are trying to accomplish and why. Obama, and his handlers are following the play book.
Nothing is as it seems because we have not yet seen their big picture. Once that happens, it may be too late for what was once referred to as “my country.” The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. They (the statists) want to totally dismantle and destroy America as we know it.
They will come “to the rescue”, and lead the amassed dependents of entitlements to a new Utopia, where the Nobly Gifted Ruling Class (Obama and Company) will rule with a stern hand, doling out benefits when, where, and to whom they see fit. Naturally as with all tyrannical ideologies, they are excluded from following any established rules set aside for the commom folk… much like they do now, only with more power to control the outcome.
We will NEVER have to worry about the business health of the Oil Companies. Their influence over the government is too strong for them ever to be hurt.
FIFY.
The bottom line to this: Everything that is dependent on Petroleum, its by-products -including fertilizers, I will include coal in this also will be affected. From feed for livestock to anything on that grocery shelf, to heating and cooling your home, to the clothes you wear and the list is endless.
Then why has a bill that will OBVIOUSLY hurt them gotten even this far??
Right_On – I believe you are correct. The statists despise a successful America, except for their own wealth, of course.
As I mentioned on another thread, this is not about the environment. It is about the accumulation of power in the hands of the self-selected “elite”.
You can’t ride a horse — not to mention whip it with a crop and dig in the spurs for the sheer pleasure of doing so — before the horse is broken.
The measures being taken by Hope-a-Dope and the donks are intended to do just that: break America, so they can climb on its back and ride for free without fear of being thrown off.
Obama bows to the King of Saudi Arabia and people are surprised his policies will increase our dependence on foreign oil…
Higher costs for fuel in a recession so it’s tougher for low income people to get to the jobs they desperately need – yep, a Dem economic plan.
O/T, but relevant — I am reading a book about Claire Chennault, the commander of the Flying Tigers in WWII. Following the war he stayed closely tied to China and wrote about the fall of the mainland to the Communists, “The [Chinese] Communist conquest succeeded not so much because of the superior military strength…but because the Reds promised the people a better life: more and better food, higher living standards, and a ‘People’s Democracy.’
“The Chinese had been indifferent, and they allowed themselves to me misled into thinking a better way of life could follow.”
Sounds hauntingly famiilar, doesn’t it? Americans, are you too allowing yourselves to be misled by promises of a better life?
It has taken China 50+ years to get on its feet and there are still regions where subsistence living is still the mode of operation — do we want that here?
It’s a pity that the morons out there don’t study the causes of rebellions and revolutions.
Hunger, extreme poverty, unresponsive totalitarian government. You know, little things like that.
Add to the mix the most heavily armed civilian population in history and you get….
This is “CHANGE”.
I predict that Dear Leader will be re-elected so we can have more “CHANGE”.
This is what the majority of Americans
want.
Any ill effects with be the fault of George Bush.
I continue to believe the rush is, at least in part, because he believes his lack of qualification to be president will be eventually uncovered.
The more he gets done quickly, the harder it will be to undo.
What will it take to convince people that cap-and-trade will not help the environment and will, in fact, hugely hurt the economy?
There are four reasons why people may not get it:
1. Simple ignorance.
2. Stupidity.
3. Willful ignorance.
4. Desire for power by means of promoting further chaos.
I think it’s all four; however, those in power believe in choice 4 and use those of the other three. First, promote chaos; chaos causes uncertainty; uncertainty, fear; fear, desire for hope; desire for hope, a savior. While promoting chaos, one needs only to prop up their version of a savior. If you’re of the Marxist persuasion, then government is that savior, promoted via a cult of personality.
None of this is new. Marxist writers have been planning and executing this for decades. One needs only to read their writings to understand their plot.
LGM ILMC aand RSS will all have massive orasmic sezures.
I justed posted this on the other thread.
Somewhere, ManBearPig curls his lips back into an approving sneer.
Interesting point.
More transfer of wealth. No doubt, there’s more clauses in their like this. That’s why they want to pass it before anyone actually reads it.
Anyone in Congress still with a thread of sanity better get their act together now and get 7 or 8 more no votes.
At 1:00 pm, right_on said:
You are absolutely right! And they are rushing everything through as fast as they can so we won’t have time to react and obstruct them.
But come the Revolution – our side has guns. Can they arrest me for saying that? Oh, well.
Die Gedanken sind frei.
Actually, you can, and you get a better, smarter horse out of the deal. The Dims don’t understand this.
Actually, this may be my incentive to move further out in the sticks and raise horses. Then I can come into town once a quarter or so with the wagon to stock up on supplies that I can’t grow or make myself.
ECS
Anyone have the roll call for that vote by the way? I wasn’t able to find it.
BWAHHHH HAA HAA HAAAAA. Since when did this administration give a flying fig about any “law”? Except, of course, the unconstitutional ones that they pass in order to further their agendas.
On June 26th, 2009 at 12:40 pm, HomeoftheBrave said:
On June 26th, 2009 at 12:23 pm, WarTip said:
What will happen next if cap-and-tax passes?
A mass exodus of jobs and industry?
Moreover… it will sow the seeds of revolution – again. This time, we will be fighting against a home grown “parliament/Monarchy”…. They WILL fall hard.
I wonder how Obama will react to chants of “Death To The Tyrant?”
I just heard a caller on Rush relate an answer from a republican representative that mirrors the answer mine (Al Green, D-TX9) is giving. They are waiting on constituent input to make the decision. The caller asked the exact same question I asked, like does he have any inclinations pro or con on it “no, waiting on feedback”.
So they can’t possibly have read it, we certainly haven’t even seen it, and they want to say their decision came from their constituents input? Can we sue somebody for fraud with this evidence?
Also, is somebody going to be able to get the phone records of the “constituents” calling from the Soros phone banks?
#36…I think that is a very good possibility…he has spent millions on keeping his records secret…
Something interesting a friend forwarded to me: http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp
I look at those two quotes and wonder how many of us who don’t like whats going on will ultimately lose spirit and just give up v.s. how many of us will be better/smarter/stronger?
Is this all a character builder for us or what!!
Hang tough all!
KVal57: He will only hear what he wishes to hear, “Praise to O for bringing us peace and proseprity!” Meanwhile all else will be white noise.
However, he will have to reckon with the masses who turn out for his “Circus Maximus” when they don’t bow and scrape, but rather hurl insults and trash!
I believe there is little we can do at this time. The Dems will render themselves obsolete, however, we’ll have to endure a disastrous three and a half more years for them to do so.
The other option is to try them all for Treason.
Neil Abercrombie – if you are reading this – please note I will vote for Mufi for Gov if you support this bill.
Keep it up and we will all be looking to the gubmint for a stipend, a handout, a brief nod from the Emperor walking by in his finest imaginary royal robes.
Then maybe someone will realize that the Emperor has no clothes. But it may be too late.
Call/Write/Email…keep up the pressure.
Find out the Republicans who are thinking of supporting this mess and get messages to them.
I got something they can eat, the way things are going they will be eating it.
What does it take to reach the end of this destroying of America, when do we fight back and I mean fight.
When is enough, enough. I ask as a serious question, not an attempt to insight a violent action.
I often wonder when did the founding people of the U.S. decide it was enough? There is that point no doubt, I’m only curious as to when that point is reached. when the point of no turning back can be considered.
If the socialists can control your health, your mobility, and your freedom, then they will have destroyed the Constitutional form of the American government.
Seems like these folks in Washington can’t destroy America Fast enough..
Problem is – show me a lower standard of living country and I’ll show you a country that pollutes far far worse than the affluent countries.
Darn reality has to ruin everything again.
The envirowhacko libtards must be loving this! This is exactly what they want.
Do NOT give it to them.
already happened….the only question is how bad will it get?
I’m hoping for apocalyptic….
Ever been to Athens, Greece? You can’t even breathe in that city. AT ALL.
Yes, dear Mr. Lewis saw our world all too well…as did Orwell…
the easiest way to achieve equality is to make everyone equally ignorant (public school teachers job) equally poor (the irs job) and equally docile (the mind numbing tv media job)
sent an e-mail yesterday to my congressman and a letter to the Fresno Bee on this topic, but after reading today’s threads and following the links, it looks more discouraging. If the Obmanation movement is not just a conspiracy theory, it is the scariest thing to happen to America in my lifetime. Power to the People
anyone who thinks we’re going to turn this around in 2010 or 2012 is just dreaming I’m sorry to say.
the republicans in 94 were much more conservative, and they had no lasting impact..the march to socialism continues…the only thing that will end this is the total collapse of this country…
whew–I’m worn out.
I had to re-bury James Madision.
MM quotes the wild speculations of a special interest lobbyist as objective fact. Is that what you learn in Journalism 101?
Excellent questions! I wish I knew when “enough would be enough”. I think a lot of us are past the point where it is enough, and we know our country has pretty much morphed into something not desired by the Founders. However, I think a good chunk of our “countrymen” like what it has become and want more of this “utopia”. I truly believe there are two mindsets in the USA now which are incompatible with each other. Statists vs. Individualists.
P.S. Lgm would be on the statist side of things.
I called and FAXed my Rep (Courtney D-CT). The person I talked to said that they the calls they answered seemed to have a very slight majority opposed to it.
Keep up the calls/faxes/emails.
I’m gonna have to call bollocks on that one.
So are you willing to pay extra for the carbon tax to solve a problem that doesn’t exist???
mattm: That means the Congressperson will vote as dictated by SanFranNan and can give a weasly answer that he was looking out for his constituency because the last minute calls swung him toward voting ‘Yes.’ BTW, it was soooooooo close, if ONLY a few more calls had been made and the Congresscirtter knew what his consituents really wanted.
is this for reals?
or is this Jerry’s Bizarro-world?
Hey, lets tax unicorn poop. I heard that could kill us all as well.
An entry fee for the tooth fairy?
and you believe the words of lying weasel democRATs…hope idiots like you end up cold and hungry…
The end of this ‘Ant & Grasshopper’ story is the Ant is worked to death while the Grasshopper smokes crack & has babies.
I bet his wife’s name if Dolores.
I meant is, not if.
I don’t know if saving the Republic — or restoring it — will be a matter of becoming better/smarter/stronger so much as it will be a test of whether the American People still have a breaking point, past which they’ll either submit to socialist slavery or rise up in revolt.
Right now, you might say that the American people are “worried” or “concerned” or “have doubts” about what the donks are doing, but they’re not at the breaking point. They write letters to the editor, or comment on blogs, or participate in protests, but none of these are things that the donks fear or respect.
The only thing the donks fear is an informed, engaged and enraged electorate, and rest assured that they’re working to make sure that the election results in 2010 and 2012 will be pre-ordained via a tidal wave of bogus votes backed up by an army of crooked election officials.
Whether that will finally rouse the American People out of their stupor remains to be seen. Today we look at the Iranians battling riot police in the aftermath of blatantly fraudulent “elections.” Guess what? By 2012, we’re going to be the ones raising hell on the streets … maybe.
You know what lgm? — I’m sick and tired of what your philosophy and your stupid vote is doing to this country. Your first amendment right to stupidity doesn’t hold a candle to the freedoms I hold so dearly. Your comments don’t add to civilized discourse on this blog and your progressivism (liberalism on acid) do nothing but rip liberty and freedom into shreds.
The Dems real goal is to tax us back to the feudal age where they can be the rich overlords and the rest of us are unable to afford the smallest comfort.
Except that you would be taxed on the gas emmissions of your donkey so maybe maybe we’ll be taxed further back than the feudal age.
Pay your taxes, damn you! It’s for the polar bears!
And to keep abortion safe, legal and common–oops, I meant rare. Rare!
lgm vehemently defends climate change politicians as experts. When it comes to CEOs of large energy companies talking about competitive balance, they’re “wild speculations from a special interest lobbyist”.
lgm should take a moment to realize that Michelle didn’t quote Jim Mulva. She included the context from the Bloomberg article which quoted him. The fact that they attributed the opinion to Mr. Mulva carried the right context by which it could be judged. No where has Michelle misrepresented the source or scope of Mulva’s comment. She didn’t even speak about it directly.
If you care to disagree with Mr. Mulva, that’s your prerogative, lgm. To question Michelle as if she should not have posted the article because you disagree with the premise is not an issue with her journalistic integrity. It seems more an issue with your inability to respond to the topic and instead chose to attack the individual.
Well its to be expected, the Democrats have long wanted a return to the Monarchy of old with themselves in the position of the nobility and the rest of us surfs hoping for a little cake to eat. On a side note maybe they should remember what happened to the French.
The founding fathers also had the benefit of being organized and had the ability to unite the people in single locations where actual battles could be fought. As long as we remain divided we are easily defeated and unfortunately, yes, there are far too many Americans who actually want this … and perhaps should be allowed to have it … but if so, the country will certainly end up divided again and would that result in a civil war once the have-nots realize that somebody actually has to work to pay for those socialist programs? Our constitution clearly states that a Republican form of government (And no LGM, that has nothing to do with any political party) is the only constitutional form of government allowed. Unfortunately, our Scotus seems as unconcerned with the Constitution as our “representative” bloated bureaucrats do.
The future does not look good. Apocalyptic would be a blessing but I am not counting on it even if I do pray for it.
I have to apologize, but I didn’t see the “— not to mention whip it with a crop and dig in the spurs for the sheer pleasure of doing so —.” That is the description of a cruel, sadistic person who doesn’t care about anyone but himself, or herself. That’s also pretty much the description of a potential serial killer. Anyone who would treat a horse that way, any horse, deserves to be horsewhipped. Sounds like a Dim to me.
ECS
Not to mention the living, breathing fraud in the White House.
This escalating energy tax will place the US economy into a permanent recession and that will result in a massive reduction in the quality of life for everyone in the US.