Michelle Malkin » Socialized health care and the death of choice

Socialized health care and the death of choice

By Michelle Malkin • July 16, 2009 10:00 AM

Two more Obamacare items worth your attention this morning:

1) Investors’ Business Daily shines light on a provision in the Democrat takeover bill that will effectively kill off the market for individual insurance and funnel consumers into the “public option:”

When we first saw the paragraph Tuesday, just after the 1,018-page document was released, we thought we surely must be misreading it. So we sought help from the House Ways and Means Committee.

It turns out we were right: The provision would indeed outlaw individual private coverage. Under the Orwellian header of “Protecting The Choice To Keep Current Coverage,” the “Limitation On New Enrollment” section of the bill clearly states:

“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.

So we can all keep our coverage, just as promised — with, of course, exceptions: Those who currently have private individual coverage won’t be able to change it. Nor will those who leave a company to work for themselves be free to buy individual plans from private carriers.

2) The National Taxpayers Union weighed the references to taxes and regulation versus the references to options and choice in the Dems’ behemoth proposal. They found 1400 references to “taxes/regulation” compared to 88 for “choice/options.” And this sums it all up:

The terms “consumer-driven” and “patient-driven” as in consumer-driven and patient-driven choices and health care do not appear in the bill.

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#301

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:23 pm, chapoutier said:

Let me try to change the subject.

The first stimulus has pretty much failed. I admit this.
#302

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:24 pm, corkie said:

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:23 pm, chapoutier said:

The first stimulus has pretty much failed. I admit this.

But the question is, are you surprised?
#303

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:27 pm, spaceycakes said:

Well, yes, corkie–sort of like that. My late father used to call everyone ‘Jack’.
#304

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:28 pm, spaceycakes said:

Hey chapoutier–I’ve now started in on the Galliano.
#305

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:32 pm, chapoutier said:

But the question is, are you surprised?

Mmmmmmm…good question. Not sure surprise is the right word. I was never totally sold on it, and especially not the version that came out of Congress.
#306

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:39 pm, John Deaux said:

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:32 pm, chapoutier said:
I was never totally sold on it…

I don’t know why not. Could it be because it’s never worked anywhere it’s been tried? Or maybe because Keynes was wrong. Or because Pelosi thought it was a good idea? Or maybe because it did nothing but put money in pet projects and slowly at that.

More importantly, What part of Texas would be good to move to? I’m a Floridian, but I don’t really like the blazing heat. Cold isn’t a problem, but illegals crossing my property is.

Suggestions?
#307

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:42 pm, chapoutier said:

More importantly, What part of Texas would be good to move to?

I don’t know John…I hear there a lot of Texans there…shudder…
#308

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:45 pm, John Deaux said:

Well, I’d prefer the Northeast for the scenery, but the people and their politics have pretty much ruined that for me.
#309

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:46 pm, Micheleeroo said:

This is horrifying! I’m sorry, but Obama is lying when he says you’ll be able to “keep” your private insurance. He’s got his fingers crossed behind his back while saying it, knowing he’s in the process of killing off the private market. People, GO to your Tea Party event tomorrow and let the pols know you won’t be treated this very UN-american way!
#310

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:47 pm, corkie said:

I don’t really like the blazing heat.

Um, then what makes you think Texas is a prudent choice?
#311

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:53 pm, chapoutier said:

I have an awesome place for you John.

You definitely won’t have to worry about blazing heat and I can’t guarantee illegals won’t cross your property, but at least they will probably speak English. Funny sounding english, perhaps. But English nonetheless.
#312

On July 16th, 2009 at 6:59 pm, swede said:

Joe Biden: ‘We Have to Go Spend Money to Keep From Going Bankrupt’

Jabber Joe speaking jabberwoky to AARP folks re Obamacare.

Shoot me. Please.
#313

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:00 pm, John Deaux said:

Well, I want someplace without a personal income tax and without a majority of liberals. Hopefully someplace without oppressive laws. Texas seems to meet my needs slightly better than, oh, say, Wisconsin.

corkie,

Looks pretty similar to here. I was wondering if there was someplace in Texas similar to Flagstaff, AZ. Never too hot, never too cold, yet in the middle of the desert.
#314

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:04 pm, Misscheryl said:

John Deaux, you could always move to Oklahoma, occasionally it does get hot. You DO NOT want to move to Texas, their football teams sucks. GO.OU.
#315

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:12 pm, John Deaux said:

Oklahoma is out. I hear tell people from California are moving there.
#316

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:19 pm, swede said:

John – The Cali-Critters don’t eat much, and picture yourself in a snappy Sooner hat.
#317

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:20 pm, Ragspierre said:

“Well, people that I say that to say, ‘What are you talking about, you’re telling me we have to go spend money to keep from going bankrupt?’” Biden said. “The answer is yes, I’m telling you.”

I have been too weak with laughter to do much since I heard that.

Ol’ Joe…the gift that can’t help giving….

The Texas Hill Country is very pretty. It reminds me a lot of the limestone hills of Missouri.

Texas is hot. We use it to filter out weaker Yankees. We let the others stay.
#318

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:21 pm, John Deaux said:

Whoa! that looks waaaay too much like something Bobby Bowden would wear.

You know, never mind. I think I’ll just go to sonofdy’s NZ conservative colony.
#319

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:27 pm, swede said:

Thought it might trip your Talahassee trigger. Never mind.
#320

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:27 pm, John Deaux said:

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:20 pm, Ragspierre said:

Texas is hot. We use it to filter out weaker Yankees. We let the others stay.

It didn’t work for us in florida and we even have the added disincentives of rabid mosquitoes and things in the water that can kill you.

Oh, and the most uncomfortable grass in the world. Filled with sand spurs.
#321

On July 16th, 2009 at 7:55 pm, AlohaGuy said:

chapoutier said:
Let me try to change the subject.

The first stimulus has pretty much failed. I admit this.

Are you familiar with this guy? (I assume so)

Sample quotes (from February):

The delusion that a crisis of excess debt can be solved by creating more debt is at the heart of the Great Repression. Yet that is precisely what most governments currently propose to do.

and

The aim must be not to increase debt, but to reduce it….If, say, Argentina had an excessively large domestic debt, denominated in Argentine currency, it could be inflated away….
Today, Argentina is us. Former investment banks and German universal banks are Argentina. American households are Argentina. But it will not be so easy for us to inflate away our debts. The deflationary pressures unleashed by the financial crisis are too strong (consumer prices in the U.S. have now been falling for three consecutive months; the annualized rate of decline for the last quarter of 2008 was minus 12.7 per cent.) …
The solution to the debt crisis is not more debt but less debt. Two things must happen. First, banks that are de facto insolvent need to be restructured—a word that is preferable to the old-fashioned “nationalization”. Existing shareholders will have face that they have lost their money. Too bad; they should have kept a more vigilant eye on the people running their banks. Government will take control in return for a substantial recapitalization after losses have meaningfully been written down. Bondholders may have to accept either a debt-for-equity swap or a 20 per cent “haircut”—a disappointment, no doubt, but nothing compared with the losses suffered when Lehman Brothers went under.
…

There’s more…
#322

On July 16th, 2009 at 10:53 pm, graysonret said:

Create an enemy. Create a crisis. Pass laws to “protect” the public. It’s the “same old scheme” that ushered in many totalitarian governments, overthrowing other governments. Liberty and freedom disappear amid strict government controls and the “useful idiots” cheer. Those that don’t know their history, are doomed to repeat it. We are watching a radical change in our society. The damage done already could be enough to permanently alter what our government can and can’t do. The Constitution is gone. It’s is only referred to, in 2 instances now; the swearing in lie, and if it happens to support any opinion at that moment. The takeover of our society by this government is so rapid, no-one has time to consider any ramifications before it’s law. Nationalizing business is so going on so fast, it’s hard to keep up. It isn’t that this country doesn’t deserve this disaster. When this dumb-downed population is more interested in Jackson than “cap and trade”, maybe this change is needed in order to wake people up. If they don’t resist, then they deserve it.
#323

On July 16th, 2009 at 11:16 pm, fulldroolcup said:

Police and fire care is a form of socialism.

Of course! Socialism is a system whereby the government aka “the people” owns the means of production.

Police produce jailbirds by catching criminals. They also produce prisons to house the jailbirds. By producing jailbirds and places to put them they also produce a social climate that leads to more..production.

Firemen produce smoke by putting out fires. The insurance claims produced by the extinguished fires help produce new houses to replace the ones lost to fire. More houses mean more places for more workers, who…produce.

q.e.d.

Snork! Pass the bong.
#324

On July 16th, 2009 at 11:42 pm, xblade said:

You can buy private health care insurance on the exchanges in the future under the bill.

That’s right….you can buy the government plan from the government, or you can buy the government plan from a “private” insurer, lol. Some choice.
#325

On July 17th, 2009 at 12:11 am, Gwillie said:

“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.

That read to me like everyone who said “I better get some insurance before this passes” is out of luck unless they cant pass it until next year.
#326

On July 17th, 2009 at 8:47 am, stillontheroad said:

Page 16 of this tripe Bill spells it out about Insurance and acquiring Private thereof. It outright bans it – so, probably a little less than half of all companies will can their Insurance to employees, employees have to take Obamacare – The insurance Companies loose half their customers, cannot compete, go out of business, the other 50 or so percent that did have Private Insurance no longer have that so, Obama Care for them also. A nice surgical strike gutting free enterprise and the best medical care in the world and all brought to you by El President Lola.
#327

On July 17th, 2009 at 9:02 am, Misscheryl said:

10:53 pm, graysonret said:

Ditto what you said and I don’t know what else could be added. You wrapped it up with a neat little bow. The move toward socialim has been going on for years and years. The final push is now. I’m not going to be popular with this comment but now we cry because we’ve lost conservative representation and we blame it on everyone else but ourselves. We, ourselves have been static for years. As long as nothing effected us directly then “whatever.” Helmet laws – whatever, seatbelt laws- whatever, “smoking” laws – whatever, can’t spend your money in this way or “we’ll tax you to death” laws – whatever. Nothing is free in this country anymore because of our in-action and liberal, socialist “action.” I don’t know that in the 12th hour we can turn this around. For our sakes and the sake of our children, I hope so.
#328

On July 17th, 2009 at 9:17 am, conservativesRus said:

On July 17th, 2009 at 9:02 am, Misscheryl said

I agree with your premise – but I’d say it started long long before any of the references you’ve cited. At the risk of inflaming za (again), the decline is a result of the choice to not acknowledge a GOD and our responsibilities before HIM. Once collectively we have pushed HIM aside, we leave that foundation and all we have left is man attempting to stabilize an ever increasingly unstable system. Man left to himself is an unstable system.
#329

On July 17th, 2009 at 9:20 am, Misscheryl said:

CR – you certainly won’t get an argument from me. I’m with ya! Those who feed off of each other rule the day.
#330

On July 17th, 2009 at 9:42 am, NJ-Aviator said:

Gwillie said:

“Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day” of the year the legislation becomes law.

That read to me like everyone who said “I better get some insurance before this passes” is out of luck unless they cant pass it until next year.

That’s a good point. It seems if that remains part of whatever they try to pass, it doesn’t matter if you got private insurance this past January. There’s some provision that will take you out and dump you in the gov’t run Medicare II plan.

Nice. That sounds like a deal that Al Capone would come up with.
#331

On July 17th, 2009 at 9:47 am, jim m said:

Flagstaff has a good climate because of its high elevation (about a mile up). I don’t think that any place is Texas is that high.

You might want to consider looking around El Paso. That’s probably the highest area in Texas.
#332

On July 17th, 2009 at 9:49 am, Misscheryl said:

For your morning dose of satire check this out (it’s a hoot)

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YmVkOTA3MTE4Y2RhNTczMzE1YmQ0ZDM1Y2I0YWZlMzg=
#333

On July 17th, 2009 at 10:05 am, right4life said:

At the risk of inflaming za (again), the decline is a result of the choice to not acknowledge a GOD and our responsibilities before HIM.

its like Pavlov ringing the bell…
#334

On July 17th, 2009 at 10:32 am, spaceycakes said:

Yikes; husband & I tried out Harlingen & McAllen, TX. Whoa. Heat? You have no idea. And the utility bills made our Missouri things look like childs play. The no-income-tax stuff didn’t make up for the low wages (due to illegals)and expensive utility bills.
It’s a shame because it is beautiful down there. Well, ‘Dolly’ kept us from visiting last July.
#335

On July 17th, 2009 at 10:37 am, chapoutier said:

I am sure walterc would but in a good word for Wyoming.

The state of Wyoming does not levy a personal or corporate income tax. Wyoming does not impose a tax on intangible assets such as bank accounts, stocks, or bonds, either. In addition, Wyoming does not assess any tax on retirement income earned and received from another state. Further, there is no legislative plan to implement any of these types of taxes.

As long as you don’t mind wind and living in the sticks, it is quite nice.
#336

On July 17th, 2009 at 10:50 am, zeroangel said:

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/98615/Birther_Stefan_Cook_vs_Obama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJqyRH8y3o8

I can’t watch the video from here, but I can read the captions. Seems like Keith can pick a winner from time to time.

From the other article:

This is a “massive scam,” and Cook will get nailed for it, said Doug Mataconis in Below the Beltway. He claims that Obama “forced” him to deploy, but it turns out he volunteered to go to Afghanistan in May, then sued to get out of it in July, when he could have just asked. Why? He’s a “birther” wingnut who wanted standing to sue Obama over the birth certificate.

Is this true? Did he actually volunteer AFTER Obama was elected and then go on to pull this crap? I know you guys said he volunteered but is this what you meant?

If that’s true the guy is a TOTAL POS. He only pulled this stunt in order to make a stink over this. He’s crossing the lines between duty and politics and he should be ashamed of himself. What a scumbag.
#337

On July 17th, 2009 at 10:54 am, spaceycakes said:

Actually, I don’t know if that’s much different from Obama/Dhimmicrats using lies/politics/race/class envy to get a Fascist in the White House.
#338

On July 17th, 2009 at 10:59 am, zeroangel said:

http://www.firedupmissouri.com/editorials/who-hell-orly-taitz

This just gets better and better.

But back to Dr. Taitz, the California dentist-turned-political-coo-coo. Orly is also a “lawyer,” having earned her degree from the William Howard Taft online correspondence school. This allows her to practice in California, but not elsewhere, nor is she a member of the American Bar Association.

Even Michael “Discovery Institute” Medved thinks this is nonsense:

Even some in the Birther Movement think Orly makes them seem too whacky. One cohort said, “She’s hurts the cause” and needs to go “back to practicing dentistry.” Conservative talk-show host Michael Medved labeled Orly and her followers “crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitive, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters.” Ohh…that apparently hurt, because Orly asked for a retraction. She was better received by radio pastor Wiley Drake, who gained some attention by admitting he prayed for Obama’s death.

Dexter:

So how about it? You care to bet me whether or not Obama will make it through 4 years considering this damning evidence against him combined with the legal expertise of ‘Oh-Really’?
#339

On July 17th, 2009 at 11:08 am, zeroangel said:

Orly Taitz. Jeeez. I thought that was some obscure internet l33t joke at first.

Oh Really? Taste.
#340

On July 17th, 2009 at 11:30 am, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

I found the whole article you posted earlier.

http://conservativexpress.blogspot.com/2009/07/maj-stefan-cook-fired-from-pentagon.html

Cook’s attorney, Orly Taitz, wrote in her blog that Simtech CEO Larry Grice said he would try to find another position within the company for Cook, but nothing is currently available.

“Grice told plaintiff, in essence, that the situation had become ‘nutty and crazy,’ and that plaintiff would no longer be able to work at his old position,” Taitz wrote.

Grice made clear that it was Defense Security Services that had compelled Simtech to fire Cook, Taitz wrote.

According to the report, Grice told Cook “there was some gossip that ‘people were disappointed in’ the plaintiff because they thought he was manipulating his deployment orders to create a platform for political purposes.“

Nah… couldn’t be! This is so freaking ridiculous. Of course he is getting fired! He is getting fired because everybody involved except him and his crackerjack box “lawyer” thinks he is a lunatic.
#341

On July 17th, 2009 at 12:34 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Attack the plaintiff, attack the lawyer. But, don’t address the facts of the complaint. No, no. Must belittle, trivialize, and dismiss.

This is a man that believes strongly that there are serious questions about Obutthead’s Constitutional eligibility to be President. OF COURSE “He only pulled this stunt in order to make a stink over this.” WHy? Because it DOES stink. Was Billy Mitchell a POS for his insubordination? Did history justify his actions?

Like I said before. BHO may very well make it through one or two terms before the issue is settled because he has high priced lawyers obstructing, and lilly-livered judges refusing to rule on the merits. That’s not the point. If he’s got nothing to hide, why is he spending a fortune to hide it? Release the Birth Certificate!
#342

On July 17th, 2009 at 1:43 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

There is a birth certificate online and Hawaiin officials have said they have seen his records and they are in order.

You’ve seen the snopes link haven’t you?

Don’t you see how this is an obvious conspiracy theory? Democrats won. Yes, it sucks. Obama somehow managed to elevate himself in the world of Chicago politics to work his way to the highest office. It sucks. But it’s over! We can try again next time around.

This smells exactly like when the far-left whined that Bush stole the election. Don’t you see that?
#343

On July 17th, 2009 at 1:54 pm, zeroangel said:

More here:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
#344

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:00 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

There is a birth certificate online

…that is NOT the long form certificate, issued by the hospital, with the doctor’s signature.

and Hawaiin officials have said they have seen his records and they are in order.

A state official, Hawaiian Health Director Chiyome Fukino, said, “I, and Dr. Alvin Onaka have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

That statement says NOTHING about what the certificate documents. Did they say it indicated Obama was born at such-and-such hospital in Hawaii? No. They only said they have it. Big whoop.
#345

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:06 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

ZA, read this, and some of the links toward the bottom.
#346

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:09 pm, zeroangel said:

The short form is acceptable to the State Department for proving one’s birth. You have there photographic evidence of the original, complete with stamped signature, seal, certificate #, and a scanned newspaper article announcing the birth.

You are claiming a conspiracy theory involving Hawaiian govt. officials, parents that didn’t know their son would one day run for president, the whole of the US govt., snopes, factchecker.org, and on and on…

The POTUS has better things to do then try and get the long form released (when he doesn’t have to) to placate people that will never be happy anyway.

The only people wasting anyone’s time (and money) are lunatics like Cook and Taitz. They are now wasting the time of soldiers and the DoD.
#347

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:13 pm, zeroangel said:

Factchecker has photos of the orignal for crying out loud.

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_3.jpg

What else could you possibly want? It’s wishful thinking in the same way the lunatic far-left talked about Bush and stealing the election.
#348

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:13 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

ZA, FactCheck is run by the Annenberg Foundation. Sound familiar?
#349

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:16 pm, zeroangel said:

Yes, I got it, you think it’s a conspiracy. I’ve already said that. Michael Moore would be proud.

Fake newspaper articles, fakes on factchecker, conspiracies involving the govt…
#350

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:18 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Those Certifications of Live Birth (the form you are claiming is definitive) had been issued in Hawaii for children born to Hawaii residents OUTSIDE Hawaii. Until very recently, they could not even be used as proof of Hawaiian birth by a particulary Hawaii state agency responsible for native benefits. It wasn’t detailed enough. That agency required the LONG FORM certificate.

Obama doesn’t have to TRY to do anything. All he has to do is give Hawaii permission to release his long form CERTIFICATE of Live Birth, which has the attendant’s signature.
#351

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:21 pm, WarEagle82 said:

0A,

If you had read even a single line about this issue you would KNOW that the document you refer to IS NOT AN ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

I don’t know where Obama was born. But I do know that the document you reference is NOT OBAMA’S ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

You are grossly ignorant of the provenance of the document you refer to. You should do a little reading before you offer your opinion.
#352

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:22 pm, zeroangel said:

Obama doesn’t have ~~to TRY~~ to do anything.

There you go. I fixed it. He doesn’t have to do anything. No matter what he does it won’t be enough for you anyway. In the exact same way, no matter how many rulings there were to the contrary, far-left lunatics will claim Bush stole the election and they probably think one day they will be vindicated.
#353

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:23 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Fake newspaper articles

My son was born in the Netherlands, and I bet I can dig up an announcement in the Kansas City Star about it. Families are proud of new additions.

Did that Hawaiian announcement say WHERE he was born? No.

I don’t really care if you believe I’m a kook or not. I don’t need your approbation. I’m not the one cherry picking my facts.
#354

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:23 pm, zeroangel said:

WE82:

You are grossly ignorant

I’m rubber and you are glue…
#355

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:25 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

I don’t really care if you believe I’m a kook or not. I don’t need your approbation.

I know and so does everyone else that thinks this is ridiculous. It’s still isn’t going to change the fact that Obama is legally the President and he or his supporters don’t have to do anything except point and laugh (and just ignore you).

I’m not the one cherry picking my facts.

Of course not, you know the TRUTH!
#356

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:25 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

No matter what he does it won’t be enough for you anyway.

Now you are flat out lying. I’ve said, on multiple occasions, that all he has to do is authorize the Hawaiian officials to release his Long Form Certificate of Live Birth. The one with the name of the hospital and the attendant’s signature.
#357

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:26 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

…and you will immediately claim it’s a forgery.
#358

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:26 pm, WarEagle82 said:

Wow! I stand in awe of your razor sharp intellect! How long did it take you to come up with that? How long did it take you to complete 3rd grade?

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:23 pm, zeroangel said:

WE82:

You are grossly ignorant

I’m rubber and you are glue…
#359

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:28 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

the fact that Obama is legally the President

… you know the TRUTH!

Who knows the truth? I don’t. I want to know the truth. You’re the one so sure of yourself.
#360

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:30 pm, zeroangel said:

You know, one of the things I detest about the far-left is that they were such sore losers when Kerry got his stupid fat butt handed to him. Now, my beloved conservative allies are behaving in exactly the same fashion. It’s so sad.

WE82:

How long did it take you to complete 3rd grade?

Probably the same length of time it’s going to take you to realize this is nonsense or at least stop being a sore loser.
#361

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:31 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

…and you will immediately claim it’s a forgery.

Don’t put words in my mouth. I said, all he has to do is authorize the Hawaiian officials to release his Long Form Certificate of Live Birth. If it comes from the Hawaiian authorities, it wouldn’t be a forgery.
#362

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:31 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

You’re the one so sure of yourself.

Yah, litte ‘ole me, the Hawaiin DOH, factchecker, snopes, the vast overwhelming majority of the population (left or right), more or less the whole of the US govt… and on and on…
#363

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:32 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

all he has to do is authorize the Hawaiian officials to release

Never going to happen, just like Florida wasn’t going to do a 4th and 5th and 6th recount.
#364

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:35 pm, zeroangel said:

…parry…and…riposte!
#365

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:35 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

You know, one of the things I detest about the far-left is that they were such sore losers

Again, dodge the actual facts of the issue. Call names. That’s your method of argument. Fine. Serious questions of BHO’s Constitutional eligibility don’t matter because the people have spoken through the ballot box. Let’s elect Hugo Friggin’ Chavez, why don’t we. The slide to Socialism couldn’t be any faster. At least we’d probably KNOW where he was born.
#366

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:37 pm, WarEagle82 said:

ZeroIntellect,

Once again you demonstrate your stupidity as well as your ignorance. I do not doubt that Obama won the election. What I want is to see proof that he has the right to run and serve in the first place.

Ironically, the leftists demanded that McCain demonstrate his eligibility for the office but don’t demand any proof from their candidate who has legitimate questions about his eligibility. I just want the same rules to apply to everyone.

You are really an arrogant, stupid putz…

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:30 pm, zeroangel said:

You know, one of the things I detest about the far-left is that they were such sore losers when Kerry got his stupid fat butt handed to him. Now, my beloved conservative allies are behaving in exactly the same fashion. It’s so sad.

WE82:

How long did it take you to complete 3rd grade?

Probably the same length of time it’s going to take you to realize this is nonsense or at least stop being a sore loser.
#367

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:37 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Never going to happen, just like Florida wasn’t going to do a 4th and 5th and 6th recount.

Every recount had Bush the winner. Even the one conducted by the New York Times. If you can’t see the difference in this situation, I can’t help you.
#368

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:37 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

My method of argument is to point out that this argument is over and no one is taking it seriously except court officials that are obliged by law to deal with stupid lawsuits.

As for the slide to socialism, man up and deal with it in 2012.
#369

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:40 pm, zeroangel said:

WE82:

Look, we can trade insults again if you want for another hour or two. that’s kewl.

Dexter:

There is no difference because the issue is settled in exactly the same way except for those who refuse to deal with it.
#370

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:44 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

this argument is over

Negatory. You obviously didn’t read the article(s) linked in my post #344. This issue is not going away. Dozens of lawsuits have been filed, and more will follow until the questions are settled. If the Senate can ‘investigate’ John McCain’s eligibility, why not Obama’s?
#371

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:47 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

Oh sure. They will run their course through the courts, waste taxpayers time, tag some poor saps for jury duty, put food on the tables of some lawyers, annoy a bunch of people, wate the time of the DoD and uniformed soldiers (the worst part), etc.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this kept up even after Obama is out of office. It will still never be vindicated.
#372

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:51 pm, WarEagle82 said:

ZeroIntellect,

There is little to be gained from trading insults because your own words sufficiently demonstrate your incredible arrogance and stupidity.

Anything I might offer in that matter pale to insignificance compared with your own “pearls of wisdom” which so emphatically and empirically demonstrate your stupidity.

Therefore I will decline your offer to engage in fruitless conversation with you.

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:40 pm, zeroangel said:

WE82:

Look, we can trade insults again if you want for another hour or two. that’s kewl.
#373

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:52 pm, zeroangel said:

WE82:

Therefore I will decline your offer to engage in fruitless conversation with you.

OK. Let’s test that out:

You are a big poopy head.
#374

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:56 pm, chapoutier said:

If it comes from the Hawaiian authorities, it wouldn’t be a forgery.

But….when those same authorities, in this case the state health director, Chiyome Fukino, says she has personally seen and examined his original certificate on record, that is no enough?
#375

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:57 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if this kept up even after Obama is out of office. It will still never be vindicated.

Google “Chester A. Arthur eligibility”. There are still arguments about his.

McCain released his long form BC. I think there’s fire in that smoke.
#376

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:57 pm, zeroangel said:

Heya chap. How’s your afternoon going?
#377

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:58 pm, chapoutier said:

Heya chap. How’s your afternoon going?

Sober.
#378

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:58 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Chap, see my post #343.
#379

On July 17th, 2009 at 2:59 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

There are still arguments about his.

So what? There will be arguements about Bush and Florida and the legality of the War in Iraq and UFOs and on and on forever.

It doesn’t mean it has any relevance to the real world and it will never come to any fruitition.

That said:

You obviously think this has merit. So, do you ever think it will be vindicated. Do you ever think there will be a point when Obama is removed from office?

If not, then you either a) think some kind of conspiracy will obscure the TRUTH or b) you realize that this doesn’t have any merit.

So which is it? Or is there some other option?
#380

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:01 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Heya chap. How’s your afternoon going?
Sober.

Egad! Run out of Malibu?
#381

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:03 pm, chapoutier said:

Chap, see my post #343.

Are states often in the business of holding birth certificates from foreign jurisdictions?

And you seem to be implying that they were being coy in their answer. Which again contradicts your contention that you would trust Hawaiian authorities.
#382

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:04 pm, chapoutier said:

Egad! Run out of Malibu?

I dislike Malibu. I’ll make a run to the store here soon. I also have to pick up hairspray for the wife.
#383

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:05 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

If not, then you either a) think some kind of conspiracy will obscure the TRUTH or b) you realize that this doesn’t have any merit.

I think the courts are afraid to look into it for fear he really will be found to be ineligible. Try to imagine the reaction, especially from a certain demographic group, if this historic president is found to be ineligible to the office. The issue to me: is the Contitution the Supreme Law of the Land, or not?!
#384

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:05 pm, zeroangel said:

chap:

I never asked you, do you have kids?
#385

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:06 pm, chapoutier said:

I never asked you, do you have kids?

Hell no.
#386

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:07 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

So, the courts are afraid and therefore are a cog in a massive conspiracy to undermine the law of the land, right? Sounds pretty UFOish to me. If you don’t think this will ever go anywhere why are you wasting your time?

As far as I am concerned it’s settled. Obama could have been born on Procyon III and you could be a complex computer program written by Rush Limbaugh.

However, on planet Earth, where I generally reside, Barack Obama is legally the President of the United States and an officer of the US military that games the system and wastes the time of fellow soldiers is still a scumbag.
#387

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:07 pm, WarEagle82 said:

And after our earlier fruitless exchange we get a purportedly sober Chappy.

It’s a bit early for you to be out of bed, eh? I guess you had a late night chasing “ambulances” down at DuPont Circle…
#388

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:08 pm, zeroangel said:

chap:

Gee, it’s not a bad thing. Aren’t your DNA’s screaming something about their immorality right now?
#389

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:08 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

And you seem to be implying that they were being coy in their answer. Which again contradicts your contention that you would trust Hawaiian authorities.

I think they were being careful to comply with regulations about what personal information they can and can’t release without the permission of the individual in question.
#390

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:10 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

I think they were being careful to comply with regulations

Like Chap said, you think they were being coy. You don’t trust them to come out with the WHOLE TRUTH, right?
#391

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:11 pm, chapoutier said:

And after our earlier fruitless exchange we get a purportedly sober Chappy.

Come on Wareagle, you and I both know that no exchange with you could ever be fruitless.
#392

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:12 pm, chapoutier said:

Let’s see if he gets that one…
#393

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:14 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Barack Obama is legally the President of the United States

Thank God (sorry) that’s settled! ZeroAngel has so decreed! With is X-Ray vision, he has peered through thousands of miles of the mantle of the Earth, brick and steel, to read the actual original birth certificate in the file in the Hawaii State Department of Health and verified that Obama was indeed born at the Queen Anne’s (or was it the Kapiolani?) hospital in Hawaii.
Whew! I can get on with my life now.
Thanks.
#394

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:15 pm, zeroangel said:

LOL.
#395

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:15 pm, WarEagle82 said:

I was referring to our earlier exchange with ZeroIntellect before you joined the thread.

And since you are obviously the biggest fruit around any exchange with you would not be “fruitless.”

And I do disinfect my keyboard after every message I type when responding to you…
#396

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:17 pm, chapoutier said:

And since you are obviously the biggest fruit around any exchange with you would not be “fruitless.”

HAH!!! Good one!!! Its almost like:

1) you totally came up with that awesome double entendre yourself! or

2) Post #391 was oddly prophetic!
#397

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:18 pm, zeroangel said:

Dexter:

I didn’t decree anything. The whole of the US government has. So sad, mah bad.

If you don’t think this will ever go anywhere why are you wasting your time?
#398

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:18 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

Like Chap said, you think they were being coy. You don’t trust them to come out with the WHOLE TRUTH, right?

If you were in his position, what would you do?
What if you voted for him?
#399

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:19 pm, WarEagle82 said:

Alas, Chappy, it appears you continue to misunderestimate my strategery. You do so at your own peril, leftist perv lawyer!
#400

On July 17th, 2009 at 3:20 pm, zeroangel said:

Man I love this board. You guys are awesome. We really should get together sometime but only through a bullet-proof glass wall outside your padded cells.