See what others have said

Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.

Comments

1. #101
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:11 pm, Salt said:

   On July 24th, 2009 at 11:51 am, zeroangel said:

   On the one hand you seem to be saying relgion doesn’t matter with an individual, but on the other hand you seem to think it will matter with more than one individual. Please explain.

   For example, I believe that monuments to the Ten Commandments in our court buildings are a tribute to the history and people that framed our constitution and not an offense to someone that does not believe in God.

   I believe that Jefferson’s ideal of secularism was primarily focused on not having a state church, not completely removing all church from state.

   I believe in science and technology. I also believe there is more than can be explained in this universe than science can account. They need not be mutually exclusive, but the man that rules his science as the only truth can be just as dangerous as the man that rules the same of just his faith.

   Now, can we talk about John Holdren?

2. #102
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:11 pm, dominigan said:

   On July 24th, 2009 at 11:54 am, zeroangel said:

   I base my governing principles on the Constitution, there is no mention of God or Christianity in it at all.

   The Constitution cannot be looked at without considering the context in which it was written.

   The Declaration of Independence asserts the rights that the Constitution was written to protect.

   Those rights come from “nature’s God”, which in those times was an expression for the Christian God at work in all of nature around them.

   Learn some history and benefit from it…

3. #103
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:13 pm, zeroangel said:

   Rogue Cheddar:

   Please don’t assert I am not secure in my beliefs because I won’t tolerate bigotry. It is a red herring. As I said earlier, if you agree with me that jangar made an unfair remark, you and I have me quarrel.

   dominigan:

   When you are a true Christian atheist, you understand from God’s Word because this is all we are that every person is considered valuable in God’s eyes because all we have is each other.

4. #104
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:15 pm, Laree said:

   Barack Obama is trapped in a far left liberal bubble, his far left base also makes it impossible for him to maneuver easily Damocles Sword. The reason he was pushed up in the party so fast was to carry out their agenda the above topic of this post….He is a green ambitious pol…but he has to dance with the ones who brought him. His political survival depends on it.

5. #105
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:16 pm, zeroangel said:

   Salt:

   For example, I believe that monuments to the Ten Commandments in our court buildings are a tribute to the history and people that framed our constitution and not an offense to someone that does not believe in God.

   Are not the first 4 commandments in direct opposition to the 1st Amendment?

   but the man that rules his science as the only truth can be just as dangerous as the man that rules the same of just his faith.

   Do you think if at some future point, many atheist conservatives were elected to public office (maybe even President) that this would spell bad news for our nation?

6. #106
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm, zeroangel said:

   dominigan :

   Those rights come from “nature’s God”, which in those times was an expression for the Christian God at work in all of nature around them.

   The declaration merely says “the creator” it could very well be any god. Even the Pantheist or Deist God. In any case, it doesn’t change the meaning with or without god. I don’t believe in god, and I still think those inalienable rights are excellent. I don’t need god to believe any of them.

7. #107
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm, Laree said:

   Hmmmm Americans might not have reached that all critical dumbed down enough mass as of yet

   http://hotair.com/archives/2009/07/24/rasmussen-obama-loses-majority-support/

8. #108
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm, Salt said:

   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:16 pm, zeroangel said:

   Do you think if at some future point, many atheist conservatives were elected to public office (maybe even President) that this would spell bad news for our nation?

   No.

   Can we talk about Holdren now?

9. #109
   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:19 pm, rktkr said:

   On July 24th, 2009 at 12:06 pm, rktkr said:
   as you become elderly it will visit you periodically and advise you on when and how you should die

   i’ll go along with this as long as David Rockefeller volunteers to be the first.

   oh…

   and George Soros
   and Zbigniew Brzezinski
   and Henry Kissinger
   and Alan Greenspan
   and Henry Paulson

   and most of the U.S. Congress.

   come to think of it..

   i saw a movie about this once.

10. #110
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:19 pm, dominigan said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 11:44 am, James Felix said

    Not exactly true.

    Christianity in the Middle Ages had been transformed into a ritualistic set of beliefs that was manipulated for political power.

    A better comparison would be with the Pilgrims leaving Europe for the New World and establishing a colony based on Christianity.

    The Pilgrim colony flourished, which the Jamestown colony, founded on solely profit, failed horribly.

    The country flourished because of its roots, not in spite of them.

11. #111
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pm, zeroangel said:

    Salt:

    No.

    Good enough for me. I wish there were many more on this forum that agree with you on that point.

    Can we talk about Holdren now?

    I’ve said before I think the population control folks got it all wrong. We will be teraforming Mars before it becomes an issue.

12. #112
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:22 pm, dominigan said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm, zeroangel said

    No, but on what basis are you declaring that you are moral?

    Science (Darwinism) says survival of the fittest individual. I would be better off killing my rivals and taking their possessions. And yet you will say that is wrong.

    You are using our worldview as your basis for morality… you know… the whole “thou shalt not”… lie, steal, murder.

    If you don’t subscribe to our Godly form of morality as defined through His Word, on what do you base your morality?

    Use your own worldview, not ours, to argue your case.

13. #113
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:25 pm, zeroangel said:

    dominigan:

    No, but on what basis are you declaring that you are moral?

    Evolved empathy.

    would be better off killing my rivals and taking their possessions. And yet you will say that is wrong.

    Wrong. Many animals (including humans) have evolved a social structure that benefits the group as a whole.

    You are using our worldview as your basis for morality…

    Yours? Many ancient religions would disagree. Furthermore, I assert they are all founded upon the aforementioned evolved empathy.

14. #114
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:30 pm, zeroangel said:

    dominigan :

    as defined through His Word

    Deuteronomy 22

    22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
    22:24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

    Why don’t you subscribe to this? Whose morality are you using? God’s word? Or are you borrowing mine?

15. #115
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:30 pm, b-cat said:

    I’ve said before I think the population control folks got it all wrong. We will be teraforming Mars before it becomes an issue.

    It’s been done already, in nazi controlled Europe, in the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, Vietnam and so on. The statists would love to do it here and eliminate political opponents as well as lesser beings, the above mentioned maggottry. It may never come to that, only because of our opposition.

    Besides, the greenie left will never allow space colonization.

16. #116
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:31 pm, DBNinKY said:

    O/T and way conspiratorial – but – is there any chance that Obama’s “stupidly” comment was meant as a distraction, a ploy to draw media focus away from the fact that he said virtually nothing new during the presser and that Americans are rejecting his version of nationalized health care in the polls, and onto the topic of race in America?

17. #117
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:32 pm, zeroangel said:

    b-cat:

    I disagree with radical population control and obviously, anti-space colonization wackos.

18. #118
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm, zeroangel said:

    is there any chance that Obama’s “stupidly” comment was meant as a distraction

    I doubt it. It was just a dumb remark.

19. #119
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm, James Felix said:

    Christianity in the Middle Ages had been transformed into a ritualistic set of beliefs that was manipulated for political power.

    Sorry, but you don’t get to discount a data point just because you don’t like it. The people, to the best of their ability and understanding, were godly. And it did nothing to alleviate their Earthly woes.

    A better comparison would be with the Pilgrims leaving Europe for the New World and establishing a colony based on Christianity.

    If it makes you happier to use that example, fine. Compare the standard of living “enjoyed” by those Pilgrims to what we have today. Even using what you consider a success story we see that godliness and Earthly success aren’t meaningfully linked.

    The country flourished because of its roots, not in spite of them.

    This is a mistake that is always made when this subject comes up. I didn’t suggest that religion was worthless. In fact I specifically said that like any human creation it can result in good or bad depending on who’s using it. The only thing my middle ages comparison was refuting was the idea that belief in the Abrahamic God and / or adherence to his laws does not translate into Earthly success, and deviance from those laws doesn’t lead to hell on Earth.

20. #120
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:35 pm, dominigan said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:13 pm, zeroangel said

    evolved empathy

    ROFL! And here I almost believed you when you stated you based your morals on science and rationality! Now, suddenly its all touchy-feely wishy-washy stuff! I guess strict science doesn’t work so well in describing where we get morals from…

    By the way, the Bible explains why every society knows that murder, lying and stealing are wrong… God’s Laws are written on our hearts. There’s a reason why its called the Good Book… it does tend to explain a lot that science can’t. I encourage you to read it sometime.

21. #121
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm, zeroangel said:

    Dominigan:

    Don’t be an idiot. There are good scientific, rational reasons to suggest why empathy evolved. Furthermore, philosophers throughout the ages have managed to argue fairly sound moral codes built upon empathy. Certainly, some of those codes are better than the “stone rape victims to death” moral lessons from certain parts of the Bible.

    I’ve read the Bible cover to cover several times. I suggest you read something else yourself.

22. #122
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm, dominigan said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:34 pm, James Felix said:

    Sorry, but you don’t get to discount a data point just because you don’t like it. The people, to the best of their ability and understanding, were godly.

    I didn’t discount it. Look up “indulgences”, and then try to find a reference to them in the Bible.

    And it did nothing to alleviate their Earthly woes.

    [sigh] The Bible says nothing about Earthly woes disappearing when you become a convert. In fact, quite the opposite… Jesus spells out in Matthew 10 that we will be persecuted for our beliefs.

    However, the Bible DOES explain why we experience Earthly woes, and why believers have something better to look forward to. It’s the real version of HOPE, not the false one spelled out by our current Precedent.

23. #123
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Another example of the collective trying to suppress dissent?

    How about the House Demoncrats suspending the Franking Privilege if they don’t approve of the content?

    Kinda like stonewalling and brow-beating Michelle on the Holdren issue.

24. #124
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, Salt said:

    AGW supporters are also bringing back the Inquisition, where the power of the state is used to silence one’s scientific opponents. The case of Bjorn Lomborg is illustrative. Lomborg is a tenured professor of mathematics in Denmark. Shortly after his book, “The Skeptical Environmentalist,” was published by Cambridge University Press, Lomborg was charged and convicted (later reversed) of scientific fraud for being critical of the “consensus” view on AGW and other environmental questions. Had the conviction been upheld, Lomborg would have been fired.

    …

    I find it very disturbing that part of the Danish Inquisition’s case against Lomborg was written by John Holdren, Obama’s new science advisor. Holdren has recently written that people like Lomborg are “dangerous.” I think it is people like Holdren who are dangerous, because they are willing to use state power to silence their scientific opponents.

    …

    This is why I am astounded that people who should know better, like Newt Gingrich, advocate increased government funding for scientific research. We had better science, and a more rapid advance of science, in the early part of the 20th century when there was no centralized government funding for science. Einstein discovered relativity on his own time, while he was employed as a patent clerk. Where are the Einsteins of today? They would never be able to get a university job — Einstein’s idea that time duration depended on the observer was very much opposed to the “consensus” view of the time. Einstein’s idea that light was composed of particles (now called “photons”) was also considered crazy by all physicists when he first published the idea. At least then he could publish the idea. Now a refereed journal would never even consider a paper written by a patent clerk, and all 1905 physics referees would agree that relativity and quantum mechanics were nonsense, definitely against the overwhelming consensus view. So journals would reject Einstein’s papers if he were to write them today.

    - Frank Tipler, mathematical physicist at Tulane University

    source

25. #125
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:45 pm, Mister P said:

    Don’t be an idiot. There are good scientific, rational reasons to suggest why empathy evolved.

    There is no proof empathy evolved. I think what is more likely is that arrogance has evolved and people are arrogant enough to think they have empathy.

26. #126
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:45 pm, zeroangel said:

    Salt:

    Tipler managed to get his “Omega Point” published, so things couldn’t possibly be that bad.

27. #127
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:46 pm, Laree said:

    http://logisticsmonster.com/2009/07/24/the-dc-circus-surrounding-obama-deathcare/

28. #128
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:46 pm, Ragspierre said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:42 pm, Salt said:

    Great post, Salt!!!

29. #129
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:47 pm, zeroangel said:

    Mister P:

    There is no proof empathy evolved.

    There is evidence. In any case, there is no proof that Yahweh magically added empathy to the mind of proto-humans.

    Furthermore, many animals exhibit social triats.

30. #130
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:50 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Furthermore, many animals exhibit social triats.

    Yes. Chimps have been observed to exhibit cannibalism, patricide, fratricide, and infanticide…among others.

31. #131
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:51 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    Yes. Chimps have been observed to exhibit cannibalism, patricide, fratricide, and infanticide…among others.

    So have humans. Chimps have also been observed exhibiting care for their disabled or weaker members, love for family members, etc. I am not saying human beings are equal to chimps at all (that should be obvious).

32. #132
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:52 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    Chimps have never been observed dropping nuclear bombs on one another.

33. #133
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:53 pm, James Felix said:

    I didn’t discount it. Look up “indulgences”, and then try to find a reference to them in the Bible.

    I repeat: the people were godly to the best of their ability and understanding. For every nobleman or priest that was disobeying your bible there were 10,000 illiterate peasants doing their best to live according to god’s will.

    And it did nothing to alleviate their Earthly woes.

    [sigh] The Bible says nothing about Earthly woes disappearing when you become a convert.

    [sigh] I didn’t say it did.

    Read this slowly enough to understand it:
    1) an assertion was made that this country is going to hell in a handbasket because it has turned away from god
    2) I cited some pretty compelling examples to show that godliness and earthly success are at best unlinked and even arguably inversely proportional.

    That’s it. Period. It doesn’t matter what it specifically says in the Bible, Torah, Koran or what have you, because I’m not refuting those (at the moment). My post was soley to dispute the notion that a nationwide embrace of fundamentalist christianity would somehow cure our problems.

34. #134
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:54 pm, Ignatius Reilly said:

    Which is scarier: Obama and all his works? Or Rush Limbaugh at the head of the conservative parade?

    ~~ducking~~

    Rush needs a mother (like maybe Cliff Claven’s mother) who can pinch his ear and say, “Rushie, you are jumping the shark. Playing every Obama audio cut at high-speed is juvenile. Ridicule is a great weapon but it needs to have some wit. And it needs to know when it is spent.”

    (I think people have already told Rush this but there is a little I-am-the-king effect which sometimes make him get his back up when he should listen up. That is why he needs a mother to take him down a peg or two.)

35. #135
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:54 pm, dominigan said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm, zeroangel said:

    Don’t be an idiot.

    I’m not. I’m just pointing out that the morals followed by all societies are described perfectly by my worldview. Morals are defined by God’s Laws… and are even written down.

    There are good scientific, rational reasons to suggest why empathy evolved. Furthermore, philosophers throughout the ages have managed to argue fairly sound moral codes built upon empathy.

    And what are they? How do these square with Darwinism. I thought you would catch my meaning behind my laughter at your “evolved empathy” since the theory of evolution works directly against empathy with others in your species. Kind of like “jumbo-shrimp”.

    Certainly, some of those codes are better than the “stone rape victims to death” moral lessons from certain parts of the Bible.

    Please cite the passage. I believe you’re confusing the Bible with the Koran. The Bible does talk about stoning adulterers (both of them, not just the female) when caught in the act by witnesses. Of course I guess you could argue that breaking a covenant and destroying families isn’t that bad…

    I’ve read the Bible cover to cover several times.

    Based on your confusion above, I highly doubt it. You seem ignorant of many ideas expressed in the Bible. You should have easily anticipated my responses if you had truly read the Bible.

    I suggest you read something else yourself.

    I do… many different genres of books.

    Ok, obviously its time to move on from this thread…

36. #136
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:55 pm, Rogue Cheddar said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:47 pm, zeroangel said:
    Mister P:

    There is no proof empathy evolved.
    There is evidence. In any case, there is no proof that Yahweh magically added empathy to the mind of proto-humans.

    Furthermore, many animals exhibit social triats.

    Yes I’ve seen that! My cat showers me with disdain on a daily basis!

37. #137
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:59 pm, zeroangel said:

    dominigan:

    And what are they? How do these square with Darwinism.

    I’ve explained this to you. I’ve already pointed to social animals. It’s not my fault you don’t seem to understand “Darwinism.”

    Please cite the passage.

    I did already. Deuteronomy 22:23-24.

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/24/ghoulish-science-obamacare-health-hazard/comment-page-2/#comment-753370

    Of course I guess you could argue that breaking a covenant and destroying families isn’t that bad…

    I am arguing that throwing stones at people until they die just because they cheated is BAD. Anyone with any sense at all would agree with me and certainlly our laws in American agree.

    I have, and can plainly see what is written in the Bible. Apparently, you need to make excuses to yourself about it.

38. #138
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:59 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Chimps have never been observed dropping nuclear bombs on one another.

    Nor building a hospital.

39. #139
    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:59 pm, zeroangel said:

    Lunch BBL.

40. #140
    On July 24th, 2009 at 1:01 pm, James Felix said:

    Yes I’ve seen that! My cat showers me with disdain on a daily basis!

    Your cat acknowledges your existence at all? Much different from mine

41. #141
    On July 24th, 2009 at 1:02 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I am arguing that throwing stones at people until they die just because they cheated is BAD. Anyone with any sense at all would agree with me and certainlly our laws in American agree.

    Can we not say the same thing about working to starve whole populations to death? Killing millions of people with a cheap plastic bag, or with machettes?

    People with a great deal of sense…and culpability…have done that in following an ideology that was totally irreligious.

42. #142
    On July 24th, 2009 at 1:04 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Your cat acknowledges your existence at all? Much different from mine

    A sure sign of over-feeding…

43. #143
    On July 24th, 2009 at 1:54 pm, AmericaFirst said:

    Would one of the editors please be so kind as to DELETE the Off-Topic comments about religion in this section? Michelle spends enormous time to research and write her syndicated columns. The column is about John Holdren’s involvement in Obamacare. I would like to read comments relevant to the blog post. I am getting frickin’ pissed off having to filter through the off topic debating society. Thank you.

44. #144
    On July 24th, 2009 at 1:57 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    Can we not say the same thing about working to starve whole populations to death? Killing millions of people with a cheap plastic bag, or with machettes?

    Sure we can. I agree.

    People with a great deal of sense…and culpability…have done that in following an ideology that was totally irreligious.

    So?

    AmericaFirst:

    Would one of the editors please be so kind as to DELETE the Off-Topic comments about religion in this section?

    This place has editors? In that case, by all means, DELETE away, they can start with jangar’s post.

45. #145
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:05 pm, Ignatius Reilly said:

    zeroangel…I guess it is that FreeRepublic has deteriorated so far that even the lowest of the low nitwits over there are looking around for a more convivial place to post their rubbish.

    Soon, MM might feature such great threads as a thousand yellow-ribbon posters with their Hallmark sentiments on the death of God’s angel, Tammy Faye Baker…or whatever her name last was.

46. #146
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:08 pm, Salt said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 1:54 pm, AmericaFirst said:

    If such a thing were likely (deleting comments), it would have happened long ago. I personally applaud Michelle’s lack of intervention in the comment section but also share your frustration over the threadjacks.

    (I also apologize for my own contribution to said threadjacking in trying to get them to stop.)

47. #147
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:14 pm, zeroangel said:

    Ignatius Reilly:

    Things have really gone downhill lately.

    Salt:

    (I also apologize for my own contribution to said threadjacking in trying to get them to stop.)

    *Smile* I am glad you recognize this. Isn’t it intersting that jangar is the object of my derision yet he hasn’t posted at all. This threadjack has only gone this far because some folks here are all too willing to defend his bigotry.

48. #148
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:17 pm, Misscheryl said:

    Perry raises possibility of states’ rights showdown with White House over healthcare
    By DAVE MONTGOMERY

    AUSTIN — Gov. Rick Perry, raising the specter of a showdown with the Obama administration, suggested Thursday that he would consider invoking states’ rights protections under the 10th Amendment to resist the president’s healthcare plan, which he said would be “disastrous” for Texas.

    Get ready!

49. #149
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:21 pm, Salt said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:14 pm, zeroangel said:

    *Smile* I am glad you recognize this. Isn’t it intersting that jangar is the object of my derision yet he hasn’t posted at all. This threadjack has only gone this far because some folks here are all too willing to defend his bigotry.

    I recognize my involvement and note that you point at “defenders” of jangar but do not mention your own involvement.

    I imagine John Holdren would like nothing more than to hear that rather than talk about his questionable population control papers, people are squabbling over one poster’s comment.

50. #150
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:25 pm, zeroangel said:

    Salt:

    but do not mention your own involvement.

    Why would I mention it? I have no qualms about going way OT to defend my lack of beliefs and chastise a bigot. I thought that much was obvious. I’m not remorseful at all. If the editors want to delete my comments, as I said, go right ahead, just do me the courtesy of starting with jangar.

    I’m sure John Holdren doesn’t read this blog, and in any case, going way off topic isn’t going to change the fact that no one that reads MM (likely not even LGM) supports radical population control measures.

51. #151
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:38 pm, happyscrapper said:

    I left this thread for a while, came back, and Zero is still threadjacking! Wow…just because one poster apparently said something Zero thought was bigoted and then didn’t apologize? This is unbelievable. I hope it is now done.

    How about the House Demoncrats suspending the Franking Privilege if they don’t approve of the content?

    This is also a bit off-topic, but I will respond with a short comment. Apparently, the liberals in Congress now think they can stifle the freedom of speech of any of their fellow congresspeople that they disagree with. This is so out of control! Can they really get away with that??

52. #152
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:42 pm, zeroangel said:

    happyscrapper:

    Yup, it’s my fault. Certainlly not the fault of jangar, whom you no doubt agree with. Also, it’s totally not your fault for commenting on said threadjack. Nope, you didn’t contribute at all.

    On Topic: Radical population control measures are stupid.

53. #153
    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:54 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 2:42 pm, zeroangel said:
    happyscrapper:

    Yup, it’s my fault. Certainlly not the fault of jangar, whom you no doubt agree with. Also, it’s totally not your fault for commenting on said threadjack. Nope, you didn’t contribute at all.

    O.K. Zero…you win. You get the last word. And forgive me for commenting on your post. It won’t happen again.

54. #154
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:03 pm, zeroangel said:

    happyscrapper:

    It’s not about winning or losing an argument, happy. It’s about someone making unfair, derogatory, mean-spirited, bigoted, and just plain wrong assertions about a whole class of his fellow Americans, some of whom (like me) served our nation in war and are, in general,“conservatives.”

    I don’t want you to stop commenting on my posts. I want you to join me in chastising people like jangar when they say terribly bigoted things about the aforementioned fellow citizens.

    At the very least, I would like you to recognize how unfair his assertions WRT atheists are. That is what I would consider a “victory.”

55. #155
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:12 pm, blizzard said:

    This via National Review.
    Government-Encouraged Euthanasia

    John Boehner’s statement can be found here.

56. #156
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:32 pm, conservativesRus said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 12:39 pm, zeroangel said:
    I’ve read the Bible cover to cover several times. I suggest you read something else yourself

    Yet you proclaimed you thought the Jesus who loved everybody was pretty cool. What about the actual Jesus of the Bible. Did you ever consider he called the pharisees “whitewhashed tombs”. He told the disciples to “shake off the dust against anybody who didn’t receive them”. And just in case you missed it, he was CRUCIFIED because he was going against the religious leaders (which I’m sure you’ll dismiss as he saw that he could just fulfill prophecy).
    The fool hath said in his heart “there is no god”. I’m just quoting – you are a fool.

57. #157
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:37 pm, Rogue Cheddar said:

    Oh boy.

58. #158
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:39 pm, zeroangel said:

    conservativeRus:

    you are a fool.

    Your mom. Your mom on a dinosaur even.

59. #159
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:49 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Your mom. Your mom on a dinosaur even.

    And this is why you are getting a bad rep here.

    You earn it.

60. #160
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:52 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    Right… I make a flippant remark to an idiot that calls me a fool and I’m the bad guy.

    I know, I know… just ignore him. Well, take your own advice.

61. #161
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:55 pm, Ragspierre said:

    I know, I know… just ignore him. Well, take your own advice.

    You’re talking to yourself, man.

    My advice would be to keep it in bounds.

    You are WAY too defensive, and everybody here can see that.

62. #162
    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:57 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    You are WAY too defensive,

    Please. This is the same route taken last time with R4L.

    OK, how would you respond to conservativeRus above? What would be approproate in your mind?

63. #163
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:04 pm, Ragspierre said:

    OK, how would you respond to conservativeRus above? What would be approproate in your mind?

    There is a NT verse about not calling another a fool.

    There are various quotes about not provoking a brother.

    Grace, class, inner strength…

64. #164
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:05 pm, happyscrapper said:

    At the very least, I would like you to recognize how unfair his assertions WRT atheists are. That is what I would consider a “victory.”

    Zero…I’m not sure which of Jangar’s posts you refer to. Could you tell me the number of the post? The ones I read just showed Jangar expressing an opinion. That is what we do here. Not everyone agrees with what everyone says. And some take offense. Some become obsessed with being the victim of someone’s post. I think that is you, at times. I have absolutely nothing against athiests. You have good posts…they just go totally off topic and then they tend to stay there until you get an apology from someone, or some kind of validation. We are not here to validate anyone’s feeling. Just have a nice dialogue…agree or disagree, etc. Most of us agree on the general principles of conservatism. Whether you believe in God or not is beside the point. However, we should be able to express an opinion that Godlessness has caused this country to go astray without you getting your shorts in a bunch. No?

    On July 24th, 2009 at 3:39 pm, zeroangel said: Your mom. Your mom on a dinosaur even.

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I thought that was funny!!

65. #165
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:06 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    So you would have me quote scripture back to him? I’m an atheist and he knows that.

66. #166
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:09 pm, zeroangel said:

    Happy:

    See the following:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/24/ghoulish-science-obamacare-health-hazard/comment-page-1/#comment-753009

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/24/ghoulish-science-obamacare-health-hazard/comment-page-1/#comment-753214

    …that’s #5 and #62.

    However, we should be able to express an opinion that Godlessness has caused this country to go astray without you getting your shorts in a bunch. No?

    You can express away, but I should be allowed to criticize bigotry. Like I said, if I made the same remarks about Christians you would definately get your shorts in a bunch, so please don’t throw out that red herring.

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I thought that was funny!!

    Thank you.

67. #167
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:15 pm, Ragspierre said:

    So you would have me quote scripture back to him? I’m an atheist and he knows that.

    Yeah. I’d quote books I knew people understood and subscribed to in order to make a point.

    Persuasion. Not head-butting.

68. #168
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:16 pm, zeroangel said:

    Happy:

    On the one hand you say you don’t have anything against atheists. On the other hand you say we are basically the reason the country is in trouble. Huh?

    You don’t see how those two statements are opposed?

69. #169
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:16 pm, happyscrapper said:

    Happy:

    See the following:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/24/ghoulish-science-obamacare-health-hazard/comment-page-1/#comment-753009

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/24/ghoulish-science-obamacare-health-hazard/comment-page-1/#comment-753214

    …that’s #5 and #62.

    I see your point…to a point. However, those comments were not aimed at you, so you should have just sloughed them off. Your changing the wording to insult believers was clever, and did NOT bother me one bit.

    I think you make things too much about yourself, personally. We don’t usually attack people here for no reason. There would be no reason for anyone to personally attack you for being an athiest. I like to think we are better than that.

    Sorry I can’t talk about this further, but it is, again, off topic. And I have to get back to work.

70. #170
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:18 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    Persuasion. Not head-butting.

    I might try that tactic with rational people like you and Happy here (I probably have at some point).

    conservativeRus isn’t rational. He thinks dinosaurs and humans coexisted. Perhaps I SHOULD just ignore him when he calls me a fool. However, Happy seemed to think my dinosaur remark was funny. So… have a sense of humor, ok? Text is sterile, I get it, but I wasn’t trying to be a total a$$. I was just mokcing and poking fun at the dinosaur riding lunactic.

71. #171
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:20 pm, zeroangel said:

    Happy:

    At some point in the future on another thread that you are reading I’ll be sure and make a bigotted remark about Christians. How much you want to bet you’ll forget this conversation and get offended?

72. #172
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:20 pm, zeroangel said:

    Happy:

    I’ll be sure and make it a general comment and not aimed at you. Just Christians in general. Let’s see if you slough it off.

73. #173
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:21 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:16 pm, zeroangel said:
    Happy:

    On the one hand you say you don’t have anything against atheists. On the other hand you say we are basically the reason the country is in trouble. Huh?

    You don’t see how those two statements are opposed?

    Godlessness has changed this country into something it wasn’t intended to be. Godlessness has fostered corruption, immorality and greed. Not all Athiests are that way. You, for example, seem to be an exception. But, I don’t think a totally Godless person would be a conservative. There is a spark of Him in you, whether or not you will ever admit it.

    Now…I really really have to go. Sorry.

74. #174
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:22 pm, conservativesRus said:

    za – I’m sorry to have called you a fool. That is not my place to judge and I apologize.

75. #175
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:24 pm, zeroangel said:

    Happy:

    Godlessness has fostered corruption, immorality and greed.

    This is bigoted. Just change the word “Godlessness” to “religion” or “Christianity” and you should be able to see why.

    But, I don’t think a totally Godless person would be a conservative. There is a spark of Him in you, whether or not you will ever admit it.

    …and I think this is horribly arrogant of you.

    I understand you have to go. We can pick this up later. Take care.

76. #176
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:26 pm, zeroangel said:

    conservativeRus:

    Thank you. I am sorry to have mocked you so badly. Perhaps I should tone it down a bit in the future. I think I could do so if people were not so quick to defend people like jangar when he makes his own judgemental statements.

    Again, thank you.

77. #177
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:33 pm, Ragspierre said:

    conservativeRus:

    Thank you. I am sorry to have mocked you so badly. Perhaps I should tone it down a bit in the future. I think I could do so if people were not so quick to defend people like jangar when he makes his own judgemental statements.

    Again, thank you.

    See? It works.

78. #178
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:37 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    Fair enough. I guess I can expect you to back me up next time jangar or someone else says something stupid, right?

    Maybe then it won’t get so out of hand with your even-handed lawyerish approach as opposed to my punch someone in the face when they tell me I’m responsible for ruining the nation approach.

    I’ll be looking for your support in the future. Thanks again!

79. #179
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:40 pm, Rogue Cheddar said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:33 pm, Ragspierre said:
    See? It works.

    Yeah, but for how long?

80. #180
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:51 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Yeah, but for how long?

    We just take these little moments as they come….

    I knew you were out there with your spoon, waiting to stir…

81. #181
    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:56 pm, zeroangel said:

    Rags:

    We just take these little moments as they come….

    Well with your support I’m sure these moments will come much more often. Lucky me! I got another lawyer on my side in the battle against bigotry towards atheists!

82. #182
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:07 pm, NJ-Aviator said:

    Whoa… MM, you linked that Lou Dobbs story.

    Am I reading this right?

    On October 31st, 2008, officials from the Hawaii Health department certified that they had personally seen and verified the original birth certificate.

    But now… according to Lou Dobbs, that same department is saying the birth certificate was discarded 8 years ago.

    So how is it even possible that they viewed the original in 2008 if it was discarded in 2001 ???

83. #183
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:12 pm, zeroangel said:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2008/12/05/truthers-to-the-left-of-me-truthers-to-the-right/

    But a dangerously large segment of the birth certificate hunters have lurched into rabid Truther territory.

    Berg and his supporters further assert that the “Certification of Live Birth” produced by Obama was altered or forged. They claim that the contemporaneous birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper of Obama’s birth is insufficient evidence that he was born there. (Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?). And they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part and parcel of the grand plan to install Emperor Obama and usurp the rule of law.

    I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?

84. #184
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:14 pm, zeroangel said:

    NJ-Aviator:

    MM didn’t link it. It was a trackback, they linked her.

85. #185
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:19 pm, NJ-Aviator said:

    I see

86. #186
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:24 pm, swede said:

    NJ-Aviator said:
    But now… according to Lou Dobbs, that same department is saying the birth certificate was discarded 8 years ago.

    Things that make you go hmmmmm. For what reason would a public records department discard a birth cirtificate?

    Have to agree (yikes) with za for once. The birth cirtificate trutherism is getting annoying, and counterproductive. Michelle has not been biting because there is nothing of substance to discuss. So far.

87. #187
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:31 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Michelle has not been biting because there is nothing of substance to discuss. So far.

    Rags sits quietly, hands folded in his lap.

    Listening. Watching.

88. #188
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:42 pm, Salt said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:31

    Rags sits quietly, hands folded in his lap.

    Since when?

89. #189
    On July 24th, 2009 at 5:48 pm, swede said:

    rags – The Mjr Cook story is certainly intrigueing, but of course in itself proves nothing. But one can hope. Here’s an interesting scenario:

    Proof found that Dear Leader was actually born in Kenya.

    Congress holds an emergency session to ammend the constitution allowing a foreign born citizen to be president.

    2013 – President Ahnold inaugurated.

    Be careful what you hope for.

90. #190
    On July 24th, 2009 at 6:18 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:56 pm, zeroangel said: Well with your support I’m sure these moments will come much more often. Lucky me! I got another lawyer on my side in the battle against bigotry towards atheists!

    Oh Rags, what HAVE you done??

91. #191
    On July 24th, 2009 at 6:21 pm, happyscrapper said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 4:24 pm, zeroangel said:

    It is neither bigoted nor arrogant to believe that each of us has a spark of God within us. It is what I believe. I am not saying anything against you personally. Sorry if you think I am bigoted and arrogant. I am only saying what I believe. I guess you will take it any way you want. I can’t control that.

92. #192
    On July 24th, 2009 at 6:25 pm, happyscrapper said:

    Things that make you go hmmmmm. For what reason would a public records department discard a birth cirtificate?

    For absolutely NO REASON! Birth certificates are not discarded. They are official records and are retained forever. Did they really say they discarded Obama’s birth certificate? They need to give a reason why they would have done such a thing. It is unheard of. I am a genealogist and I know how permanent and important a person’s birth record is.

93. #193
    On July 24th, 2009 at 6:26 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Be careful what you hope for.

    I have no hopes along the Birther lines.

    I’m just watching what falls out.

94. #194
    On July 24th, 2009 at 7:54 pm, zeroangel said:

    Happy:

    But, I don’t think a totally Godless rational person would be a conservative believer in superstition. There is a spark of Him in you, part of you that doesn’t believe any of it, whether or not you will ever admit it.

    How’s that sound?

95. #195
    On July 24th, 2009 at 8:17 pm, tiredofit08 said:

    obamacare coming to a clinic near you…

    http://antzinpantz.com/kns/images/apr09/obamacare%20is%20coming.jpg

96. #196
    On July 24th, 2009 at 9:20 pm, BOB said:

    Hawaii is saying they discarded Obama’s birth certificate? Gosh, what a coincidence……..wonder if it was the only one they accidentally discarded?

97. #197
    On July 24th, 2009 at 9:33 pm, tiredofit08 said:

    On July 24th, 2009 at 9:20 pm, BOB said:

    Hawaii is saying they discarded Obama’s birth certificate? Gosh, what a coincidence……..wonder if it was the only one they accidentally discarded?

    the technology used at the time was most likely microfische if I’m not mistaken. It’s always possible but what I want to know were all of them trashed or just the ones starting with “O” and ending with “O”…it’s not likely his would have been the only one..now that bears some investigation.

98. #198
    On July 24th, 2009 at 9:48 pm, Laree said:

    Bob,

    I got a copy of my Grandfather’s death certificate from back in the 1930s from Hawaii, and his marriage license from the 1918. Family History research. I don’t see how it is possible for them to have older records, and not newer ones like births from 1961.

99. #199
    On July 24th, 2009 at 9:53 pm, Laree said:

    Bob were you watching this? It states Hawaii discarded the original when they went digital.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=104919

100. #200
     On July 24th, 2009 at 10:43 pm, Lifeofthemind said:

     Odd thread to post this but just wanted to wish you a Happy Anniversary and many more to come.