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Comments

1. #101
   On August 7th, 2009 at 4:13 pm, Major O said:

   MissCheryl,
   Err..umm nothing untoward meant by that last post! Doh!

2. #102
   On August 7th, 2009 at 4:17 pm, Misscheryl said:

   Major – I’ll be happy to watch yer back!

   I dont’ want violence either, but I’m afraid it’s here and it’s now. You take care of yourself.

3. #103
   On August 7th, 2009 at 4:33 pm, spaceycakes said:

   Misscheryl–I hope you did what I did, and married a tall man!

   mrcakes is 6’6″ (I’m only 5’3″)

   LOL

4. #104
   On August 7th, 2009 at 4:45 pm, Misscheryl said:

   I did marry a big man spacey, in stature and his nature as well.

5. #105
   On August 7th, 2009 at 4:59 pm, NJ-Aviator said:

   *A supporter of health care reform, left, who did not want to give her name, pushes forward to rip a sign out of Kris McLay’s hands outside the Stout Street Clintic visited by Nancy Pelosi. (THE DENVER POST | RJ SANGOSTI)

   The nameless ObamaCare support who assualted the woman with the anti-obamacare sign needed a beat down by that very same sign she destroyed.

   Keep your grubby hands off the signs that represent our free speech.

6. #106
   On August 7th, 2009 at 5:03 pm, Major O said:

   On August 7th, 2009 at 4:33 pm, spaceycakes said:
   Misscheryl–I hope you did what I did, and married a tall man!

   mrcakes is 6′6″ (I’m only 5′3″)

   LOL

   That’s the ticket! My wife is 5’7.

7. #107
   On August 7th, 2009 at 5:30 pm, lgm said:

   nail49 said (#73):

   the government’s running of Medicare (Social Security, Medicaid, Cash4Cars, insert your favorite government program here)convinces you they will be successful…

   Medicare has less overhead and is more efficient than private insurance. The VA system delivers health care far more efficiently than the private sector. Google it.

   James Felix said (#76):

   What the hell is “funding for a living will” supposed to mean?

   It’s funding for councilors to help people write living wills and to advise them about the hospice care.

   What people are justifiably worried about is representatives of the government essentially encouraging suicide because they’ve been deemed cost-ineffective to treat.

   If people would say this, which is the honest statement, it would have more traction than the distortions of it.

   Most people who are aware of their right to refuse “heroic measures” at the end of life exercise that right. It doesn’t seem like a bad thing to make sure everyone is aware of their rights and how to exercise them.

   Member-VRWC said (#81):

   Medicare still allows for private sector options besides Medicare;

   All health care reform bills now circulating rely entirely on the private sector for care. Even the ones that have a “public option” for insurance also allow private sector insurance. You feel that the private sector will pull out of the insurance business because of government competition, but that’s not what happened with Medicare, according to you.

   Ragspierre said (#90):

   How would you feel about a Federal mandate that required that every five years, people had to be counseled to vote Republican.

   If the counseling were voluntary (the mandate is to providers to offer it, not on consumers to use it), and if people were genuinely unaware of the possibility of voting Republican, it would be fine.

8. #108
   On August 7th, 2009 at 5:41 pm, Misscheryl said:

   lgm said:
   Medicare has less overhead and is more efficient than private insurance; Most people who are aware of their right to refuse “heroic measures” at the end of life exercise that right; All health care reform bills now circulating rely entirely on the private sector for care

   Generic, vague, baseless statements.

9. #109
   On August 7th, 2009 at 5:51 pm, Ragspierre said:

   How would you feel about a Federal mandate that required that every five years, people had to be counseled to vote Republican.

   If the counseling were voluntary (the mandate is to providers to offer it, not on consumers to use it), and if people were genuinely unaware of the possibility of voting Republican, it would be fine.

   It’s just amazing that you can even pretend to believe that, much less begin to believe anyone here would believe it.

   But, as I’ve proven over and over, you are never bashful about lying.

10. #110
    On August 7th, 2009 at 8:12 pm, purealchemy said:

    Rags, Misscheryl, spaceycakes and others roughly affiliated with the rogue “Don’t Taze Me Bro’: thread:
    It sounds like Chaps is going to lose his kitty.

11. #111
    On August 7th, 2009 at 9:00 pm, txvet2 said:

    On August 7th, 2009 at 5:30 pm, lgm said:

    Medicare has less overhead and is more efficient than private insurance.

    The primary complaints against Medicare are the amount of paperwork and bureaucracy involved, slow payment, and low payment for services rendered. More doctors and medical facilities are refusing Medicare all the time, to the point where it is difficult to actually find a doctor who will take it, at least own here. I haven’t found one, myself, and have to get my care 40 miles away at a military medical facility – when I can get an appointment.

    The VA system delivers health care far more efficiently than the private sector.

    This leaves me speechless (almost). Obviously you’ve missed all of the stories about misdiagnoses, botched operations, moldy facilities, extended waits for care, etc.

    It’s funding for councilors to help people write living wills and to advise them about the hospice care.

    No, what worries people is the establishment (by the house bill) of a bureaucracy which will determine if it is worth while allowing a person to have a particular form of care, whether a transplant, medication, whatever, or whether it will be denied due to age or other factors. “End of life counselling” in this context doesn’t simply mean encouraging someone to complete a DNR request, it means preparing someone for bureaucratic denial of life-sustaining care. The concerns of the elderly are further amplified and grounded in the fact that Obama has endorsed this policy.

    All health care reform bills now circulating rely entirely on the private sector for care. Even the ones that have a “public option” for insurance also allow private sector insurance. You feel that the private sector will pull out of the insurance business because of government competition, but that’s not what happened with Medicare

    The first two sentences are mutually exclusive – you can’t even lie to yourself convincingly. In point of fact, the House bill provides that you can keep your current private plan only as long as you are with your current employer. You are not allowed to change private plans, nor can you retain it from one employer to the next. If you lose employment, you must be enrolled in the government option. Given that 1.) The government will set the levels of care for all plans, public and private and will also establish premium levels, it will not be difficult for a (non-profit) public plan to undercut private plans (which must turn a profit to exist), thereby forcing them out of business. Not addressed by the current discussion is the fact that the government will, as a result of the house plan, have access to all of your financial records, and will have the ability to directly, without your permission, remove funds from your accounts to cover your care.

    All in all, one of your weaker efforts.

12. #112
    On August 7th, 2009 at 9:14 pm, T-Bone said:

    He knows all that txvet2. He just lies to convince others its not true. He thinks that helps his political cause.

    Like most liberals, they are schooled in the by any means neccesary doctrine, meaning that it is ok to lie, cheat and steal to get their way. The greater good allows it. Nice people huh?

13. #113
    On August 7th, 2009 at 9:30 pm, Lindsay said:

    I *heart* the mob.

14. #114
    On August 7th, 2009 at 10:04 pm, txvet2 said:

    On August 7th, 2009 at 9:14 pm, T-Bone said:

    It isn’t for him. You can’t leave these trolls unrebutted. There may be people out there that read his stuff and think it sound reasonable, because, hey, the government wouldn’t really want to let you die, would they?

15. #115
    On August 7th, 2009 at 10:11 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Dissent by the right people is the highest form of patriotism.

    Dissent by the wrong people is troubling evidence of incipient fascism.

    Jonah Goldberg, Liberal Fascism, pg 158

16. #116
    On August 7th, 2009 at 11:49 pm, lgm said:

    txvet2 said (#111):

    what worries people is the establishment (by the house bill) of a bureaucracy which will determine if it is worth while allowing a person to have a particular form of care, whether a transplant, medication, whatever, or whether it will be denied due to age or other factors.

    That happens already. People who are too old don’t get hip replacements. Doctors take quality of life judgments. Insurance companies make them. It is not possible, or even desirable, to have unlimited health care.

    All health care reform bills now circulating rely entirely on the private sector for care. Even the ones that have a “public option” for insurance also allow private sector insurance.

    The first two sentences are mutually exclusive.

    No. Private provider — self employed doctor. Government insurance — Doctor sends bills to a government agency. That’s how medicare works.

    …If you lose employment, you must be enrolled in the government option.

    This is wrong. A private person can enroll with any insurance provider, public or private.

    Raggie (#115): That seems to be the MM philosophy. Conservatives shouting down liberals are speaking their minds. Liberals shouting down conservatives are thugs.

17. #117
    On August 8th, 2009 at 2:44 am, cwbois said:

    We would like to think that an elected official in Representative Carnahan’s position would gather accurate information before carelessly rushing to judgment.

    Why would the Representative do that his messiah the golden boy didnt.

18. #118
    On August 8th, 2009 at 2:49 am, cwbois said:

    LGM, your a fool if you think the government can run health care any better than it is. Funny how you think that these government workers somehow are more capable of doing things better than private parties. Hey if that what you want go for it, give the government all your cash and choice’s just leave me and all the others with half a brain out of it we DONT WANT YOUR DAMN gorvernment run anything got it! Hope you enjoy your DMV health plan.

19. #119
    On August 8th, 2009 at 9:17 am, Ragspierre said:

    That seems to be the MM philosophy. Conservatives shouting down liberals are speaking their minds. Liberals shouting down conservatives are thugs.

    Americans…of both parties…who have read the bill, confronting the people with the power to pass it.

    You know, lgm…speaking truth to power?

    Asking questions. Putting out information. Reacting to being told lies to our faces. Yep. We’re mad, and you have not begun to see the wrath that is coming down.

    Your side is lying. You are lying. Put up the substantiation for the lying CongressCretin that says he has had death threats reported on Think(?)Progress(?). I’ve looked, and can’t find it. I call BS on you and your whole cadre, comrade.

    Your whole world is a Potemkin Village, and I would be delighted to burn it down.

20. #120
    On August 8th, 2009 at 9:31 am, Ragspierre said:

    That happens already. People who are too old don’t get hip replacements. Doctors take quality of life judgments. Insurance companies make them. It is not possible, or even desirable, to have unlimited health care.

    There are tiny kernels of truth mixed in with all your lies, lgm.

    There is no unlimited good in any economy. Hence, economics is the study of the allocation of scarce resources that have alternative uses.

    People who are old are not denied a hip replacement by their doctors. That is is lie.

    People who are unlikely to tolerate a surgical procedure are not operated on by doctors.

    And, now at least, they can get a second or third or forth opinion. A doctor who is making a quality of life judgment is committing malpractice. Informed consent is their job, not making judgments about the quality of life of their patients. They can express an opinion, but best not be deciding what is not theirs to decide.

    Please, though, put up some more of your KosSack talking points. They are virtually all lies, and I’d love to expose them and you.

21. #121
    On August 8th, 2009 at 9:59 am, TigerLady said:

    When I read posts by LGM and can see clearly that he is a drone, my reaction is like Jeff Foxworthy’s comedy routine about the father who says “let the 900 pound television fall on my kid, it will teach him to stay away from it” I want so badly for LGM to have to live in the socialist world he is so eager to embrace but common sense tells me that I’m going to have to suffer the weight of the television, too.
    We can never know how precious something is until we lose it. LGM, keep telling yourself that Obama’s healthcare system is going to take care of you. When you become one of the statistics, it will be too late.
    Everyday in this country doctors make the decision to not do certain procedures on certain patients. Not because of the good of the people but because the outcome for that patient dictates the care. You can’t be so blind to believe that rationing will not be at the heart of obamacare. (not capitalized intentionally). What makes you think you will be in the “in” group? Because you’re a liberal? Didn’t you learn anything about your history in Germany?

22. #122
    On August 8th, 2009 at 10:08 am, Ragspierre said:

    SHUT UP, HE EXPLAINED:

    Yesterday, at a rally for R. Creigh Deeds in Virginia, President Obama said: “I don’t want the folks who created the mess do a lot of talking. I want them to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don’t mind cleaning up after them, but don’t do a lot of talking.”

    For Barack Obama, democracy appears to be a distraction. He really does seem to view himself as a Caesar.

    Shortly after taking office, Obama held a meeting with governors. At the time, one person in the room relayed Obama’s request that critics and skeptics of the stimulus plan keep their concerns to themselves. Just let me do it, was his attitude. He got pushback and he wasn’t happy. He wanted democratically elected state governors to shut up so he could do as he pleased. He knows better and we should respect that, seems to be the attitude.

    Powerline

    And that, friends, is quintessentially fascist. Action. Action. Action, and DO NOT bother me with classical liberal notions of individual liberty and constitutional democracy. I’m here to show you a New Order.

    If you resist, I’ll break your legs.

23. #123
    On August 8th, 2009 at 10:14 am, TigerLady said:

    If you resist, I’ll break your legs.

    Or have my SEIU thugs do it for me.

24. #124
    On August 8th, 2009 at 10:15 am, Hulka said:

    Ref lgm Post 116:

    “This is wrong. A private person can enroll with any insurance provider, public or private.”

    My employer is reviewing dropping medical insurance. Why? because if it comes to pass and there is a “government option” then why should the company pay the lug for carrying medical insurance? There is no incentive to do so.

    So, while lgm and Dear Leader say people can keep their insurance, they know very well that in a short time there will be NO private health insurance.

    Oh, and reference VA medical care, lgm, it is obvious you never were under their tender care, otherwise you would never speak highly of them.

    With the war that has been going on, and the brave men serving and hurting, the VA has been forced to improve because of the outrage of the people when they discovered the pitiful facilities, uncaring GS-6 dolts that can’t read and holler at patients in waiting rooms, lack of HIPA rights, no choice in doctors for care continuity, few and far between facilities, etc. . . .I choose private health care as my right, but because of the Dear Leaders plan, my private option will quickly disappear.

25. #125
    On August 8th, 2009 at 10:24 am, Ragspierre said:

    Oh, and reference VA medical care, lgm, it is obvious you never were under their tender care, otherwise you would never speak highly of them.

    And, for another great model of government run health care, check out health care provided on Indian Reservations.

    I should scare you to death.

26. #126
    On August 8th, 2009 at 10:54 am, Ragspierre said:

    Dr. Stephen Parente of Minnesota’s Carlson School of Management says that the CBO used outdated models to determine short- and long-term costs of Barack Obama’s health care reform package. Newer and more applicable models that the CBO declined to use show that the actual cost will be more than double the CBO estimates (via Newsbeat1):

    The CBO is actually being kind to the would-be reformers. Its analysis likely understates—by at least $1 trillion—the true costs of expanding health coverage as current Democratic legislation contemplates. Over the last few months, my colleagues and I at the consulting firm Health Systems Innovations have provided cost estimates of health-care reform to both Republican and Democratic members of Congress, and we’ve posted these estimates on our website as well. We believe that the Democratic bills currently under consideration in the House and Senate would cost $2.1 trillion and $2.4 trillion, respectively—much higher than CBO’s figures.

    Yeah, well, I think we all know that any government social program is underestimated on the “selling it” end, and usually by a multiple of five.

27. #127
    On August 8th, 2009 at 12:21 pm, lgm said:

    Ragspierre said (#120):

    People who are too old don’t get hip replacements. Doctors take quality of life judgments. Insurance companies make them.

    People who are old are not denied a hip replacement by their doctors. That is is lie.

    You’re right. Doctors recommend against, but insurance companies deny. Some of the health care reform bills floating around would replace the insurance company bureaucrat with a government bureaucrat making that call. The difference is that the insurance company is interested only in its own profit.

28. #128
    On August 8th, 2009 at 12:41 pm, Ragspierre said:

    Some of the health care reform bills floating around would replace the insurance company bureaucrat with a government bureaucrat making that call. The difference is that the insurance company is interested only in its own profit.

    No. That is another raft of stupid, and transparent lies.

    Insurance companies do not make “quality of life” decisions. They make contract decisions. They make “likely benefit” decisions.

    Insurance companies, like all market enterprises, do not make a profit by pissing people off wholesale. You get to do that once. They make a profit by pleasing people, and offing them products they willing buy.

    An insurance company bureaucrat and a government bureaucrat are not interchangeable units. They have, and respond to, completely different incentives, and they have completely different sets of consequences they face when they are in the wrong.

    You think profit is evil. I think it is a wonderful prod to production and efficiency. You are delusional. I am happy to show you centuries of proof that I am rational.

    If grandma needs a hip replacement, and Octopus Insurance Co. will not pay for it, grandma has several options, including fighting the insurance company (I do that), firing the insurance company, or doing nothing relative to the insurance company (since they still will provide her other care). She still, in each case, has the option of getting her hip replacement.

    None of those would be options if Oba-mao gets his way.

29. #129
    On August 8th, 2009 at 3:40 pm, Ragspierre said:

    http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/lb0810cd20090807070718.jpg

30. #130
    On August 8th, 2009 at 3:52 pm, Ragspierre said:

    http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/08/inconvenient-truth-about-death-panel.html

    If any of you really doubt the trajectory Oba-mao wants to take, read that piece.

    lgm, you may fool yourself. You might possibly even fool others.

    You won’t fool anyone here, nor anyone else with a brain.

31. #131
    On August 9th, 2009 at 2:26 pm, weeha said:

    I MAY accept government supplied health care on one condition:
    
    ALL government employees MUST use the government supplied insurance.
    NO EXCEPTIONS!!
    This includes congress especially!

    If they want additional insurance coverage they must pay for it themselves.

    Why is no one screaming that congress must use the same plan as they are offering the rest of us?