However, young Earth creationism is nuts. That is a fact, not an insult. Young Earth creationism is pathological denial of reality. It is a dangerous pathology due to how many people believe it.

Even intelligent design is not science, although it might well be true.

All of your arguments about evolution are flawed by a misunderstanding of what science is and is not. Evolution IS a theory. It’s the best theory that has been presented as to HOW God did it. Science is about figuring out how God did it. That is what science IS. It is not about saying “God did it” whenever you can’t prove something. That is exactly what science is not.

The same thing applies to the General Theory of Relativity. That theory cannot be ‘proved’ either. In fact, it has big, gaping holes in it. It’s just the best working model anyone has yet designed for describing how that aspect of reality actually works.

BTW, A believer in dino riders is someone who believes humans and dinosaurs coexisted.

If you don’t want to believe in God, fine, no problem for me – that’s your (God given) right to choose your religion (or no religion at all). However, I’d appreciate it if the same respect was accorded going the other way to me, rather than insulting me and calling me an ignorant and/or crazy rube. (And what the crap is a ‘Dino-rider’?)

The truth is that it comes down to faith, no matter whether you believe or don’t believe in God. The first person that can irrefutably prove the existence or non-existence of God gets a cookie and hearty thank you from me. I’m not holding my breath, though.

Since I’m not arguing for or against God, but trying to open the minds of LGM and Roland, I’ll throw out some counter-arguments. LGM and Roland refute them if you can…

The non-believers usually do believe in the Big Bang and Evolution. They hold this up as proof of everything just happening by chance, no God, ect.

1. Big Bang. One of the fundamentals of logic is causality (this leads to that, and so on, ergo…). So, what caused the big bang? What was there before it? what created that previous stuff? And so on, to infinity. So, you’ve got yourself stuck there – the material/energy is eternal (and the universe is an infinite spacial closed system that conserves those things). When you are talking about infinity on a Cosmic scale (in both time and space) that steps outside of the logic of causality and requires faith to believe it since they are immeasurable by us interior to the system. Please disprove that this must be taken on faith by either (a) finding and proving the existence of a non-God created prime event, or by (b) proving that the universe is infinite in both time and space. Just to make clear the difference between proof and assertion, saying X scientist said/theorized/thought is not proof. As LGM says in class: “please show your work.”

2. Evolution. Putting aside the holes and flaws of the Theory, and just chalking it up to working on it (instead of saying that it has failed to establish clear proof of causality = theory/not fact), right now you can’t prove that evolution did happen. Here’s one to chew on: if God is omnipotent and omniscient and could create all that is, could God not have created everything with a built-in history (like dinosaurs in the ground, motion of the stars, expansion of the universe, etc.)? Something like that wouldn’t be beyond God. For believers in evolution, prove that this didn’t happen; For believers in God, prove that it did. Tough one for either side, but its a theory… Oh yeah, saying that the bible didn’t say God did it isn’t proof either way(the bible didn’t say what God did on the 8th day, or last Tuesday, either, but that doesn’t mean that nothing was done, so it just means its a gap in knowledge). Guess we’ll just have to take in on faith that the Theory of Evolution will all work out… or not.

In the final analysis, science has made as many (maybe more) mistakes as religion (phrenology, bleeding the sick, etc.). So is science still working on it (the big T, Truth), trying to improve? You bet. Does science have all the answers right now? You’d be a fool to bet on that one. So, you take it on faith that science is going to validate what you think now… Science has a way of revising and changing according to the data and the facts. Good luck with it not pointing in the future to you being a fool for believing whatever the “science of the day” says now.

To reiterate, I’m not trying to prove the existence of God or not; I’m saying there are other positions/theories out there that can be held just as strongly because no one *knows*. At least one side acknowledges it has beliefs predicated on faith. The other side closes its mind and in its own intellectual hubris, hurls insults at the other.

Oh, and BTW, for any personal attacks or false assertions about what I’m trying to say or not say, I’ll fall back on that venerable second-grade “rubber-glue” defense, rather than throwing up another wall of text to refute someone who obviously is not of good will.

On August 14th, 2009 at 11:10 am, lgm said:

Being a “socialist” isn’t so bad. Saunders gets re-elected by a state full of Green Mountain Americans. If you want to talk about nuts in the Senate, start with Inhofe. How many Republican Senators don’t believe in evolution?

The only bigger con going right now that exceeds man made “global warming” …oops, I mean “climate change” (until that phrase loses steam) is the theory of evolution. The fact that someone like you, lgm, exists proves that evolution CAN’T be true. We’ll maybe you’re right. A cave-man Neanderthal brain like you is indeed missing-link evidence.

They had a liberal talk radio called Ari-America. It folded because people didn’t buy their baloney, and flat out vicious lies.

They have MSNBC, CNN, and the 3 broadcast networks, all of whom are loosing viewership, while Fox is reaching new heights.

They have NYT, LAT, WAPO, Time, Newsweek, and the likes in every major cities and towns; all of them are gasping for survival.

I guess they don’t teach at Yale, how to connect with the viewers / readers / listeners.

Message to Bernie:
A fool and his money doesn’t last long. Go ahead, and start a dozen liberal media outlets with money from your liberal cronies.

http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/23/the-dont-taze-me-bro-moment-of-henry-louis-gates/?loggedin=1250286071#commentform

Shooting for the 7,000 post mark.

A day without Obama-bashing is like a day without sunshine