Cash for Clunkers, R.I.P. – for now
What a disaster.
A disaster from which Washington will learn absolutely nothing:
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood assured car dealers Wednesday that they will be reimbursed for sales made under the cash-for-clunkers program and said the department would soon offer plans to wind down the popular car incentives.
LaHood said the department will announce by Friday how it intends to discontinue the program that offers car buyers rebates of $3,500 to $4,500 for trading in older vehicles and buying new, more fuel-efficient models. Department officials met with car dealer trade groups Wednesday to discuss complaints over a backlog of rebate payments to dealers and how the program will eventually end.
“I know dealers are frustrated. They’re going to get their money,” LaHood told news reporters.
And where is the money coming from? Y-O-U. GM is providing cash advances to dealers waiting for their C4C reimbursements. Via Autoblog:
According to GM, that should give each dealer enough liquidity to keep operating while waiting for the government to cut a check.
Of course, since GM accepted billions of dollars in federal loans to avoid bankruptcy and then, after entering Chapter 11 bankruptcy anyway, emerged as partly owned by the U.S. government, the money’s really all coming from the place. It just seems that GM has a better accounting department than the U.S. Treasury.
And this is how the government defines “success.”
Cash for Clunkers may be ending — for now. But I guarantee you, the architects of this auto entitlement subsidy will be back. The redistributionist impulse is incurable.
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It just makes the thought of letting the government run a large slice of the economy and our lives via “health care reform” more and more absurd.
As in all things, wouldn’t it be more prudent and sensible to let people keep their own money and spend it as they wish rather than take it and redistribute it as government largesse with strings (chains?) attached? Why do they feel the need to tell us how to spend our own money?
“I know
dealersdoctors are frustrated. They’re going to get their money,”Prescience?
That’s certainly what many of us fear. The government can only define “success” through federal subsidies.
Too bad all those former GM employees who were going to get their jobs back because of CFC are probably going to be out of luck now. Good thing we’re not in a recession.
These are the people who want to manage your healthcare.
yes, but did the ones who took advantage get enough cash to buy & care for green vehicles?
Of course not; I just read a report that noted that the program caused a rise in SUV purchases…
d’oh.
America shouldn’t be in the business of propping up obsolete business models. Business does not exist merely to provide jobs for people. That’s why Lefties always fail economics.
They will be back to run healthcare in the same way they did for clunkers. We are doomed.
That way they get to take their cut, whether the cut is in the form of buying votes or giving money to supporters or increasing the power of their position or, etc etc etc.
The Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise. REALLY.
In this economy, probably the only people able to buy new cars are people secure in their jobs making lots of money: government union workers.
More perks for the
CommunistDemocratic party members.Ah, the “appeal to pity” argument to avoid any acknowledgment that the federal government has no business being directly involved (as a player) in the auto industry?
A government program has sputtered and dealers so far are left holding the bag. So, GM employees are out and other dealers will have an unexpected loss on their books until the government pays them, potentially through increased taxes.
In the private sector, when a business takes a risk, they’re the ones that pay the consequences if it fails. With government, we all take the risk and they’re amateurs in the market.
Stand by for awards, citations, and brilliant evaluations for everyone involved in this “innovative, highly successful and integral part of the government’s plan to stimulate the economy and save America”.
sarc/off.
Obamacare will work the same way. trade in your old Dialysis machine for a more efficient model. Oops! Out of money!
On August 20th, 2009 at 11:19 am, spaceycakes said: “… the program caused a rise in SUV purchases….”
Really? Now that’s hilarious! Gotta love it!
That’s where most of the first Billion went.
And a nice sales spike for Toyota, but, you didn’t hear that from the MSM.
On Edmunds, the Ford Explorer tops the list with 10.2%. The F-150 and Chevy Silverado are in the Top-10.
On the reverse side, the Civic, Focus, and Corolla are on the list but noticeably absent are Prius and the Insight.
Of course. The teat’s not dry yet.
What? I’m not avoiding anything. As a liberal, I obviously have no problem with the government greasing the wheel when it’s rusty. It’s too bad GM makes crappy cars, but if people choose to get an Aveo over a Civic, then good for them.
What I secretly like best about CFC is the glut of “clunkers” I want to own that are now on the used car market. I love the ads where they show something that looks like an old Grand Wagoneer, like it’s something you would want to get rid of. I would take that in a heartbeat over a new Grand Cherokee.
Advantage GM.
Isn’t that how crony capitalism works?
The end of a “PERFECT PROGRAM”… AHHHHH, sure feels warm and fuzzy… To all of you out there who could not qualify for the C4C program, just wait… Within 6 months 9 at most there will be a huge influx of REPOS on the market from folks who had no business buying a NEW CAR to begin with (sound familiar)… Why do you suppose these people had 8,10, or 14 year old vehicles??? Maybe because they were all paid for, and that is all they could afford…
Now, you do know the “clunkers” get destroyed, right? Maybe not the whole car, but the engines are deliberately destroyed specifically so they will be taken off the road.
Is this the extent of your research skills?
The vehicles traded in the Cash for Clunkers fiasco were destroyed, not put on the market.
This results in less supply to demand, raising prices on the cars you claim you want.
Once again Red State Stupid proves he knows zip about anything.
I’m in the final throws of getting a new car under CFC and a question arose that has the dealer balking on delivery so I called the NHTSA hot line yesterday. After being on hold for ~15 minutes, the woman who took the call, (she was very pleasant and professional though BTW), had to put me back on hold to go and ask someone else about my particular question, (which I anticipated anyway because it really was an odd documentation question). Her answer basically confirmed what I had suspected all along – my dealer is being a REAL Nervous Nelly about getting paid from the government. The folder that my salesman has for me is now so thick with paperwork that you’d think that I was trying to get a second mortgage on my cow to get a downpayment for a new house.
To all you doctors out there, I strongly suggest that you go speak with a local car dealer to prepare yourselves for what you’ll be doing if HR 3200 becomes law. I’ll bet you might even think that you already have too much paperwork from insurance and medicare? …HA!
Will that be before or after they have to shut their doors, some sitting on million $’s worth of cars…they have to pay the manufacturers when they sell the new cars? Another giverment bungled job…it’s sorta like Murphy’s law. “If anything can go wrong, it will and sooner than you think.”
Now if they givernment is really interested in raising m.p.g. they’d stop this bio-fuel crap in your vehicles. Corn is not good in the human innards, not is it good in the vehicles innards. Here in Oregon we have a percentage of our fuel needs to be bio-fuel. the average m.p.g. has dropped 15-20 %, in short the corn isn’t good for my vehicles innards nor is it good for the “environment”, com on ‘green peace’ where are you?
That’s the sad thing, my clunker was a real S*&T box in every way EXCEPT the engine and tranny.
Emotion, all emotion with these libs.
I read your statement as an admonishment that we should grieve over the death of CFC due to the GM employees. If I misread your intent, I apologize.
Even poorly planned programs that ultimately depend on additional subsidies? When the government injects itself in the market, it seems to do so with blunt force and a disregard for long term consequences. Politicians (on both sides) focus on short term, instant gratification gains. Their incentive is increasing their power base and political influence.
CFC seems to be exactly that. The problem here is that it hasn’t been all that successful, even in the short term. It will depend on how soon the dealers get paid.
It was my understanding, and I believe there was another thread on this, that the cars turned into the CFC had to be destroyed. This came up when the Republican suggestion of donating the cars to charities was voted in favor of destroying them. Wasn’t the intent of CFC really about reducing emissions with stimulus as a wished-for side-effect?
I would expect an increase in the price of used cars (if they’re destroying them), not the other way around.
Where’s the environmentalists, you know save the trees and such?
Can’t blame him. It looks like his caution was warranted.
Since C4C was forced on us it’s too bad they didn’t give the whole “recycling process” some better thought.
1. Most people that are buying the new vehicles could have bought them without the $4500. (The money just got them to go ahead and purchase now.)
2. Most of the cars traded in were not that old and still ran well.
3. The people with the cars that really needed to be replaced couldn’t qualify for the financing.
Therefore … if we just couldn’t avoid this thing then how about the following scenarios instead of crushing reasonably reliable transportation.
The cars traded in that were in good running condition, regardless of the fuel efficiency, should have been made available to the people with the “real clunkers” that couldn’t qualify for the C4C program.
These vehicles could have been offered “for free” on a straight across trade of their “clunker” for a better car.
This would have then insured that only the worst vehicles would have been the ones being crushed.
All this has accomplished is to cause the prices for used cars to go up because of the cars being traded in not going into the used car market.
Anyone else thinks this would have made more sense?
Alas, common sense is not a D.C. value.
RSS, is a lib, he has no concept of free market economics, in this case supply and demand. The price of the remaining clunkers jump in price to $4500 in most cases, not to mention parts for repairs done either with a mechanic or do it yourself mechanic. Real good idea in removing the tools needed to keep those cars on the road for those who can’t afford a new one.
Is that unintended consequences or just plan stupidity?
Now, you do know the “clunkers” get destroyed, right? Maybe not the whole car, but the engines are deliberately destroyed specifically so they will be taken off the road.
What?? A tear! I hereby swear off the federal government and will vote Palin as soon as she proves her conservative bona fides to me.
It’s true. I don’t know everything. Aren’t you glad you have the internet so you can insult people without getting your ass kicked?
Not sure of the logistics of this idea, but I think you have something there. Get rid of the worse, while at the same time upgrading for the new car buyer plus the clunker owner to upgrade to a better operating clunker. Win, win as far as I can see.
SHoward did not insult you, RSS. Go back and read what he wrote.
Do you always threaten people when they show you how stupid your are?
Now, see, THAT was an insult.
Way to put the other guys out of business, Obama, and cost even more jobs. Are there ANY policies from this administration that are well-considered and NOT a disaster??
Looks like someone got their feeling hurt…whaaaaaa!
If you get insulted by making dumb a$$ comments on a political website opposing your idealogical views maybe you shouldn’t make these comments. What do you think?
rightisright …
Yep … that was the basic idea …
If they had to have this program, why did they not just make it a $3500-$4500 tax deduction for the dealers as an incentive to reduce the price.
There would have been a lot less hassle with a lot less of our Tax $’s spent.
We accept your gracious acknowledgment that your previous point about used cars was inaccurate.
What part of SHoward’s comment was an insult? That he questioned your research? So, now you’ve retreated into snarky comments about Sarah Palin and school ground threats of kicking his ass?
Not being a smart a$$, because it’s a givernment program.
Most likely because it wasn’t about stimulus as a primary objective. C4C was focused on attempting a solution to AGW, a little brother to upcoming Cap and Trade.
The bottom line here is – The Dealers still have not been paid and the Uncle Sugar Gov is saying nearly all the money has been spent – I am still trying to figure that one out. oh, wait. It is the Government.
With most movie theaters charging over $10 to see mostly crappy movies, I suggested to my dealer that they should charge admission for a daily demolition derby using clunkers from their back lot.
Plus it gives their sales staff something to do instead of just sitting on their hands waiting for the government.
Doesn’t it always?
Trust me, I’m even more insulting in person.
BTW, was that some kind of threat? That’s it. I’m calling you’re parents, Barak and Michelle!
In all seriousness, that kind of statement flys all over the place. Indeed, many of us on the right have been accused of lacking research skills, wihch is an inaccurate observation. On this occasion, it turns out to be true applied to you. If you can’t handle a statement of that nature around here, you’r ein the wrong place.
Exactly right! And good luck to all those late teens working hard in fast-food to save for a car of their own to drive to college – you’re going to be saving for quite some time. A local dealer said the prices for good used cars are skyrocketing due to the scarcity created by C4C.
Heh. That’s what happens when you ignore the little man behind the curtain.
That alone is the MOST laughable thing about C4C. Given the total human CO2 emissions all over the world, the maximum difference that this program could possibly make – EVEN IF THEIR THEORY WAS TRUE, (which we all know has already been disproven..)- is truly like spitting in the ocean.
Cash For Clunkers simply created the same kind of bubble the housing market received from the likes of Barney and Chris.
It will pop.
Einstein noted that one of the definitions of insanity is when you repeatedly try the something that fails over and over, hoping somehow the results will be different the next time.
this program was just more of an auto-industry bailout. It did not benefit the enviroment. It was wasteful to destory the old cars that would otherwise be affordable choices on the used market (domestically and internationally). All told, I am pissed that my tax money went to help people buy cars. The only positive to this $3b boondoggle is that it is prime example for us to hold up as proof that government fails whenever it tries to get involved in the market.
You wish! Unfortunately this is reality.
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2009/08/16/Man-trades-in-Maserati-as-clunker/UPI-38421250399674/
If only I could get a Prius to haul me, my husband, my 80+ pound yellow Lab, and suitcases for visits with the in-laws. Heh. My monthly visits to BJ’s wholesale club fills up the cargo area with some spillage to the back seats of my 4Runner.
Well don’t be pissed at ME because the $4500 I got was MY tax money coming back to me – I’ve paid plenty of it.
On the other hand, if you don’t think it’s ~fair~, I’ll agree with you but… what is when it comes to taxes?
Hmmm….
Sounds like the thuggish talk and ?behavior? typical of know-it-all elitist socialists/statists/collectivists.
Remember what the SEIU boss thug said: something like, they believe in the power of persuasion; and if that doesn’t work, there is the persuasion of power….
Well… I wouldn’t say that a 1985 Maserati BiTurbo ‘stands out’ all that much. (with the doors closed of course)
Right…just as soon as they print some more because they have spent the 3 billion on something else. Bob and weave.
the gubmint couldn’t run a whorehouse in nevada, and this program shows they can’t even give away money without f’ing it up. yes i DEMAND these clowns take over not only the auto industry, and the healthcare industry, but the insurance industry, the banking industry, and the aircraft industry. then all of our businesses can enjoy the efficiency and productivity of our education system.
This is progress?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waj2KrKYTZo&feature=related
Sickening to watch, and one has to wonder if this process alone did not offset all the “pollutant gains” that would have been made if this vehicle would have been allowed to run its’ full course of usefulness?
Suggestions for Obama’s next book title:
Dereliction of Duty
Abuse of Power
How I destroyed America
Mr. Chicago Mafia-Thug Goes to Washington
Have those titles been used yet?
Just wait – C4C Part Deux will force you to buy a Prius or Insight (with properly inflated prices).
What’s wrong with you people?
Can’t you see the successful impact this program had? The county will now consume less oil. Oil prices are plummeting to . . . oh wait . . . never mind.
(Apparently the oil traders are too stupid to know about the significant reduction in oil demand that C4C has caused.)
P.S. Even if you believe in global warming, this program didn’t put a dent into CO2 production. How can anyone feel good about this program?
My wife bought a new 2010 Ford Fusion last week.
We got an excellent deal. We chose Ford because they didn’t kiss Obama’s ring.
No, we didn’t use her old car for a clunker trade-in. We gave it (’97 Chevy Lumina) to our daughter. I told my daughter that taking the clunker money was robbing our neighbors and ourselves.
Does anyone else smell a rat about the “delay” in repaying the dealers? A back door way to run certain dealers out of business, perhaps?
I, too, am p.o.ed about my tax dollars artificially injected into the market to: (1) increase prices to consumers (after all, if they are getting a $4,500 discount, then why should the price remain stable?), (2) destroy otherwise useable autos that could have been purchased by lower-income buyers, and (3) pay off auto unions by temporarily resuscitating a workforce that should be shrinking due to market demands. Oh, and the evil and greedy foreign automakers Honda, Toyota, and Nissan, who have benefited greatly from this program that was supposed to (what was that again?) help the AMERICAN economy???
Bravo! Way to go, hangfire!
I was hearing about some of the “unintended consequences” of the CFC program this morning on the Glenn Beck radio program. Too many to even imagine!! From screwing charities and college students to giving new car loans to people who maybe couldn’t afford them, to helping certain banks make those loans, to allowing people to buy gas-guzzling new cars, to running out of money and screwing up the payments to the dealers so they go bankrupt. And much more. These stupid idiots can’t do anything right!! There is no way we can allow them to pass this health”care” fiasco. This is war.
One of the dealers here in my local area has purchased a monster truck to do the crushing with.It will make up for all of the CO2 loss, and put on a real show to boot. Can’t wait to go see it.
He saw the government’s circus and decided to put on one of his own?
Whew, that’s a relief.
THAT’S scary.
They are the same thing now, remember.
‘Givernment Motors’
This looney tunes government and its keystone cops “administrators” need to be banished to some remote planet before they complete their mission to destroy the earth. Send congress with them. I have never seen such a carnival of fools in my life. They are all spend-addicts who need a serious intervention. Great material for a dynamic new soap opera. . .”As The Government Burns”.
Well, I, um, don’t know quite how to put this, but, I, um, work for one of the carmakers (not GM, F or CHR). I DO NOT AGREE WITH GOV’T HANDOUTS. But, our sales are way ahead right now, and that means no new round of layoffs this year.
I don’t exactly feel good about it, but I’m not going to argue about it at this point.
I live to bring relief to the masses….
The rat in this story is that the government is broke, out of money. It’s going to do more than run the dealers out of business if The Won keeps spending money like a drunken sailor on leave. And his idea to just print more money is going to come back to bite us all in the behind.
Government will pay the dealers, of course, minus taxes and such. By the time they get through with all that, the “bills” will be going out. As far as this program goes, is this the type of government som people want running the economy and health insurance? It’s been tried before, elsewhere, and ended up miserable failures. I guess people think that somehow, here, it will be different. All I see, if this continues, is a society like England, and an economy like the USSR.
Given it is all our money any way at least with GM doing it there will be some accounting for it. As it is none of the stimulus package, cash for clunkers, etc., stuff the government is doing can seem to be accounted for.
Maybe we should run all stimulus spending through GM’s accounting department?
sh…
So your commitment to principles only goes so far hey?
“But, our sales are way ahead right now, and that means no new round of layoffs this year.”
And who gives a rat’s ass if you getting our tax dollars destroys our lives hey?
Cash for clunkers as with all the stimulus money is a mirage. There is no substance to the improvements you cite. Any improvement in the economy in general or an individual’s economy as a result of this type of government spending is a plant that grows quickly with no roots. It will wither and die as quickly as it grows.
But it is nice to know that when it comes to the bottom line, your commitment to your values disappears as fast as Obama’s latest promise. We do need to know who we can count on and can’t as we move forward to reclaim this country and return it to a foundation build on conservative ideology.
Nice to see a sitting judge over my principles. Did you even comprehend the entirety of what I said? Do I really need to argue to your standards or anyone else’s?
Quite frankly, if you are representative of us conservatives, you might be giving me a reason to let you fend for yourself. I’m not certain a world as you see it would really be much better.
Srill waiting for the administrative costs associated with this program.
I suspect the administrative costs may outstrip the actual benefit to the consumer.
Obama’s next
stimulusdepressant package will include pennies for pot pipes. The Drudge Report front page of STONED OBAMA is hilarious… ‘ALL WEE WEED UP’I didn’t think so.
Just so there aren’t any other mis-understandings, had this been put to a vote beforehand, I would have voted against it. As I said in my post, I do not side with any sort of gov’t handouts.
I was trying to make a point that I (and my collegues) was surprised at the effect. No, we really didn’t just assume it would have spurred sales. I wouldn’t have wanted it even if we thought it would.
Mainly, you have to understand this perspective: Even though I wouldn’t have voted for it, and I know the effect is likely temporary, if it does in fact save your job for a while, it’s kind of hard to wave the flags against it.
And as gov’t programs go, it wasn’t that expensive. $3 bil is nothing compared to Obamachev’s spending habits…..
I know, I know, it’s the principle of the thing. I agree, it shouldn’t have been done in the first place.
Radicals of both the left and right do not understand the core principle of playing by the rules as they are, not as you wish they would be.
The argument you should not have done the economically sensible thing ‘on principle’ is the same as that idiotic argument Governors should have refused the stimulus money going to their states. Despising the rule does not mean you have to punish your constituents to the benefit of states happy to take the money you are turning down. (BTW, I was very happy to see Sanford implode. What a tool).
The entire left has become all radical all the time, but they do not have a monopoly on a lack of common sense.
SHoward, please enjoy the positive effect this law has had for you personally. There’s nothing wrong with that.
I understand that despite the positive effect, you don’t feel good about the law – and that was the point of my last sentence.
We I contacted “my” Sen. about CFC I made sure to mention the issue fo destroying perfectly good gars and the impact on teh Used Car prices and availability. I discussed, in detail how my first car, a “clunker” allowed me to get/hold a job, go to college, etc.
The response back, “while I understand you concerns….blah blah…this will reduce our environmental impact. Well thanks for reminding me who NOT to vote for.
On August 20th, 2009 at 7:37 pm, mattm said:
The response back, “while I understand you concerns….blah blah…this will reduce our environmental impact.
You should answer back, “No, it won’t.”
I figured you’d gotten that, corkie. For some reason js decided to jump on me with both feet over it.
Look at it as though potential car sales are like river of logs floating down stream that are gathered at point X. Giving an incentive just temporarily pushes the sale point upstream to point Y.
I expected a huge repsonse and likewise expect a big DROP afterward when the point is moved back downstream when the incentive is removed and there are no logs between point Y and X.
I’m probably a good example – I was ready to buy car within the next 3 to 6 months and this program justed spurred us to do it slightly ahead of schecdule. You can trust that I’m not going to be buying another new car 3 to 6 months from now…
OT, but I heard that Obama “warned” Libya not to give Abdel Baset al-Megrahi a hero’s welcome. Do you believe that? Don’t clap when he gets off the plane or else…are you freakin kidding me?
I completely agree. The government is using borrowed money from China to prop up failing businesses rather than allow them to die a natural death or perhaps adapt to the new environment they must survive in (Darwiniacs, pls note the reference
).
The only people who think it will be different are the utopian ideologues. Unfortunately, they’re the ones in power these days. Conservatives simply MUST reclaim our government, at all levels.
Now hold on a minute! Sarah Palin outlined that very well. She took some of the stimlulus money one one hand but on the other refused some of it. On first blush you’re inclined to react ‘always take the money’. BIG BUT, the money she and other governors refused had some serious STRINGS attached to it that hijacked state sovereignty and would have ultimately hurt the state down the road.
Things aren’t always as simple as they may first appear…
As I was coming in today, I saw the report on the TV about Cash for Clunkers’ failure.
In my mail on the table was a letter from my GM dealer which started out, “Due to the success of the Cash for Clunkers program …”
All within seconds. I was SO glad the milk hadn’t been poured for dinner yet. I would have certainly made a HUGE mess!
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
Yeah but look how it stopped global warming? It somehow even changed history making it stop back in 1999. Amazing these libs!
We’re so good at handing out money – financed by China to sell Japanese autos. I don’t care if they were manufactured in the U.S. – the profits are siphoned off to Japan. Way to go Moron in the W.H..I have way more admiration for Ford than any other in the U.S., but that is where it should have stopped marketing wise.
Apart from that matter, can anyone tell me how it is constitutional for D.C. to hand out $4500 to a select group of citizens (those that could afford to buy a new auto) when they have not provided that same monetary value to all taxpayers? I see this as nothing more than another subsidy to the auto industry = union workers. Every citizen/taxpayer has an equal right to benefits from the gubmint. How can this be equitable?
People saw this a mile away… dealers would not have the cash to front while the wheels of gov’t reimbursement took forever. The only clunker is this administration filled with socialists top to bottom. The Founding fathers spin spin spin. I pray there is a Country left to save when these bast…ards are thrown out of office in 2010.
Good point. Thanks. I should have structured my argument differently. My objection was to the people who criticised Governors who took stimulus money even though the Governors opposed the stimulus bill.
The principle is to do your job and fulfill your obligations within the rules, not to look out for people you do not work for by undermining the well being of the people you do work for.
In fairness to drunken sailors, they are spending their money. The government is spending our money.
In fairness to drunken sailors, they are spending their money. The government is spending our money.