Obama “efficiency” in action
What he did with Cash for Clunkers, he’ll do for health care.
That’s not a promise. It’s a guarantee
Less Than Half Of Cash For Clunkers Spending Actually Went To Dealers $1.22 billion for the intended purpose. $1.66 billion for administering the money for the intended purpose.
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Where can I get a job administering? I could use that kind of pay.
One question though, has anyone looked into the “administering” part”? I have a feeling that cash got sidetracked somewhere but, where oh where?
1.66 billion for administration?
I wish I could say I am suprised.
I have a feeling that alot of off shore accounts just got alot bigger.
Just saying…
Which begs the question, if there are hundreds of billions of dollars of fraud and waste currently in Medicare, why don’t we eliminate the waste now, whether there is any additional reform to the system or not? I guess those silly Republicans just never thought about that when they held the majority.
sonofdy said:
Why does SOROS come to mind? Just thinking here.
I are admin. You pay. You go now, Hokay?
The corruption of this WH knows no bounds. I pray the unraveling will come soon, before we are too far gone. They are using the cash for clunkers money for dubious purposes and screwing the car dealers. Many of them will never see their money and will go bankrupt. How many times will we trust them and be screwed before we have MASSIVE revolt? Those auto dealers should never have been involved in the program to start with…but they “trusted” the government…Never again should we trust this government…never again!! Especially for health care. NO WAY. This must not happen!!
Did anyone check the freezers for money?
1.66 Billion for paper pushers for a program that lasted, what? Two months at best (Jun 22 – Aug 24)?
How many people did it take to administer this program? How much do they make on a monthly basis? If you paid these bureaucrats $5,000 a month that would mean it took 166,000 people to administer a program for two months!
Considering the government stated that 690,114 cars were traded in during the program, that means each bureaucrat (if my above numbers are taken into account) was responsible for just a hair over 2 cars each, or rather $2,405 in administration casts PER CAR traded in!
Stats for CARS: http://www.cars.gov/files/official-information/August26Stats.pdf
No.
Words matter, and yes Pres Obama should be taken to task, but not with mis-representation of the facts.
Linking back to the original source, it says 40% of the payments have been made. Meaning that 60% of the payments have yet to be made. To conclude that the administrative costs amount to $1.66 billion is . . . less than accurate.
In no way am I defending ‘cash for clunkers’, but merely pointing out, that if you take someone, or something, to task, facts should be used and not mis-representation.
Certainly there are administrative costs, but to make the leap that the administrative costs are the balance from what was ‘approved’ from what was budgeted is clearly . . . wrong.
spaceycakes said:
Perhaps they, and we know who they are, are using the Zimbabwe style banking system. You know, 1 for you, 50 cents of that back to us, and 10 for us.
I’m pretty sure George has it in Crawford.
Completely bogus. $2.88 billion is the total amount requested so far, not spent. The real number in admin costs is $100 million. Y’all will believe anything.
I await a retraction.
Here’s the link that’s a little more complete than a 3-paragraph AP blurb.
Is this the way the administration will pay for healthcare by “getting rid of the waste”? So if healthcare will cost us $900 billion (from Obama’s lips last night), and we apply an additional 57% of that from “administrative” costs as in the clunker program, we come up with $513 billion in additional costs that we will also have to retrieve from “waste”. Even a garbage can has an inevitable bottom to it. And, speaking of garbage, that is all we are hearing from Obama and his administration.
Red State Skeptic Said: Y’all will believe anything.
No not anything. Something. And this something has the smell of a dead carp laying in the sun for a week.
LaHood said that 1.22 had been approved. He did not say how much was pending/denied, or even the final cost. Saying that 1.66 billion went to administration is a little premature.
Oh No! I’m starting to sound like Chappy!
I would like to know the average annual cost for adminstering a Medicare Policy as private health insurance policy.
That data is attainable.
Obama rails about waste, fraud, and abuse in healthcare, as well as health insurance company profits.
His whole statement is idiotic. If comapnies want to maximize their profits they will do all they can to minimoze waste, fraud and abuse. If there is any it is in the government run programs where there is no profit motive.
The profit motive and competition are the best safeguards against waste, fraud, and abuse.
I was about to jump in with what zyzzyg and RSS already said, but they did a fine job.
Here is a link to the DOT site, saying 2.877 billion in rebates have been submitted out of 3 billion total approved for the program.
Fact checking is your friend.
Ok, my comment was voice of reason, RSSs was confrontational.
However, RSS’s link shows that California took more than twice as much C4C money than any other state. Strange how these non-bailout bailouts work, eh?
This seems a pretty good study.
Bottom line, Medicare admin costs (5%) are definitely lower than private (9% or 17% depending on what you include in that), but not by as much as the government touts (they usually say 2%).
2.877 billion in rebates have been submitted.
When I hear all the car dealers have been paid, then I can accept that. Until then, this still stinks to high heaven.
Oh yeah, let’s get these idiots in charge of the death panels. How efficient!
As for any politician who “guarantees” any action…
Put your money where your mouth is. Buy a personal cash bond for $XX million dollars of your own money. The payee will be the US Treasury. This way, your guarantee may carry some weight of the truth. This is the ultimate in accountibility.
I am not a lawyer (my parents were married – an instant disqualification), but is there a contract made when a public person promises but fails to deliver? I am sure there are many twists and turns to the logic, but at some point, does breech of contract occur?
Bottom line…I am looking at the spirit of the law, not a parsing of it. Can we reign in the outrageous statements made by public officials that are made just to placate the moment? Or do we have only the votes of a (primarily) uninformed and ignorant electorate to fall back on?
Usually, I try to stay rooted in the pragmatic aspects of politics, but it is getting so tiring of hearing the crap flung back and forth. I guess I am so frustrated that I am grasping for straws at this point.
PS – Sorry, Chap for the cheap shot concerning lawyers (kind of…sort of)
What can I say, I’m a Joe Wilson kind of guy.
California also has nearly twice the population of the next biggest state (NY).
According to RSS’s article, there was $100,000 set aside for Admin costs. That represents 3.4% overhead.
Are you sure MM want’s to use this as her example of government administrative inefficiency?
The link doesn’t say if this is the final tally. If you divide the $1.2 billion by the 690,000 cars, that’s only $1,768 per car. The rebates were $3,500-4,500 so something isn’t adding up. At $4,000 per car, that leaves $120 million to administer the program or $173 per car or 4.2%. While I believe that this is a waste of MY money, I need more information before I’m going to get riled up.
What zyzzyg said; the linked article is completely inaccurate. Having 1.2 billion in approved payments doesn’t mean the remainder is going to overhead.
Posting nonsense like this just gives your critics ammunition.
I think some ten gallon hat wearing, big silver buckle brandishing, armadillo eating Texans may beg to differ.
the gubmint couldn’t administrate a piggy bank for only 5%. under what accounting scheme did the gubmint account for all the temps they hired to do the job they were too busy polishing their nails to accomplish. no one would believe medicare is run with 5% of that budget, even though that budget is huge. i guess the administration costs are figured into the fraud and waste budget of 10% because the people supposed to be doing a job are wasteing time and are largely a fraud by claiming they “work” for the gubmint.
Ooops. Obviously meant $100,000,000. My percentage was correct, however.
Actually, Texas is second and NY is third. However, Excel is telling me that it does break down pretty close to population rank.
cheapseat,
Why don’t you point to some actual facts to back up your assertion?
Remember that Medicare also farms out part of their business to insurance companies, so the true admin costs are higher, probably pretty close to private insurers.
I work with the FAA. Some of my co-workers have been getting all kinds of overtime trying to assist the DOT in processing the paperwork. As a contractor I’m not allowed to get overtime, but some of my FAA coworkers have been doubling their paycheck with overtime.
So, I can believe that more money goes for paperwork than for the actual program.
That’s in addition to the other Government inefficiency I see around here.
The study claims to includes all Medicare outlays and even ones they don’t report, but which should be included (basically, its percentage of the overall Government budget for things like staffer and legislator salaries, building costs, collection costs, etc..)
The study may be flawed, and I would be happy to hear how, but it seems a good starting point for discussion at the least.
Was that 1.66 billion for administration or corruption. Are we sure ACORN wasn’t involved!
One commenter on the other site, “Bike Bubba”, made an interesting point:
So, as much as some folks are quick to defend against the initial misreading of this article (for which the other blog poster already has an update), the fact remains that many dealers have yet to be paid. That matters, too. Paying them eventually isn’t just as good as paying them quickly.
Here is a good counterargument to the one I cited above:
Argument: Medicare’s costs are lower as a percentage because they are dealing with more expensive patients. What you should look at is actually administrative cost per person.
I think this is a valid point and probably does serve to narrow the perceived gap in admin costs, but what this does not recognize is that more administration is necessary for a person who is constantly visiting the doctor’s office. So a higher cost per person can be a function of consuming more actual admin costs rather than an argument about the relative efficiencies.
Big ear barry employed an old democrat trick last night. He promised that this plan would not add a single penny to the deficit. He said he wanted a provision that this plan be paid for first or cuts would have to be made.
This is as old a democrat ploy as one exists.
Here is how it works.
Embed in the law a provision to pay for this at the beginning of the budget.
Then the cuts that must be made come after this has been paid for. So the cuts would have to come from something else, like can you guess where. The same place all democrats want to cut.
Defense.
It is always defense cuts.
How so, given that all billing records and codes are now computerized and stored?
Okay, but the dealers voluntarily entered into this arrangement and clearly are seeing some benefit. Frankly, net 45 is not great, but certainly not horrible in the private sector and is way better than I would have expected from the government.
Come on. Computerizing and coding can go a long way in reducing overhead, but it certainly doesn’t come close to eliminating it.
Cash for Clunkers = Fail
Is there anything this administration has done successfully, other than take some pictures of the Statue of Liberty?
That’s assuming they meet the 45. The clock’s still running on many of these. We’ll see how it turns out.
Isn’t that precisely the type of sentiment that conservatives are conveying? You are agreeing, I think, to having low expectations for government response.
One of the reasons I do not enjoy wathing these democrat speeches is simple. We have heard it all before. This speech could just as easily have been read from the teleprompter by LBJ Carter Clinton or any other democrat.
This is the template all democrats have used since FDR. Everything sucks, we can fix it.
Trust us, not them.
What is different, is that big ear barry and gigantor are fulfilling their destiny as they see it. They have to do this, because, to do less than accomplish the complete marxist takeover of america is unthinkable.
The Obama administration says we won’t be able to return to the Moon.
The first can’t do administration in U.S. history.
Fail.
Well, lets do some actual comparisons to private rebate schemes:
Sprint:
Apple:
No word on how long it takes to process the rebate before the 30 day clock starts ticking.
Goodyear:
These were the first couple I ran across, except for Bobcat, which sat “a few weeks” but wouldn’t let me copy and paste their text.
Now you know why Obama is referred to as “The Chicago Thug”.
I haven’t seen much around why we would need to do this. I understand what you’re saying about a “can do” attitude and hearkening back to JFK’s era with the first moon landing, but what does a second landing do for us?
At the risk of agreeing with the Obama administration, I would be fine with not spending money on this.
Perhaps, but for frequent clients it would seem to be just a matter of automaticity.
Chap, please tell me that you’re not comparing B2C rebates with B2B rebates.
I can only imagine what franchise dealerships would be like if the auto manufacturers followed the same time frames as you mention for consumers. It’s just not an apples-to-apples comparison.
That’s actually relatively efficient for the Feds. And they wonder why we don’t like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and their pet nationalized healthcare project.
In what way do the mechanics of processing a B2C or a B2B rebate significantly differ? That is what should be driving the turnaround time on these, right?
Do any of you have a link to a story I heard on the radio about Chrysler not being able to repay between 2-4B in tax payer loans while GM will be unable to repay more than 25B? I’ve tried a couple of search engines but can’t find anything on it.
Once again, they use the $7,000.00 hammer to do the admin calculations.
Odopey admin = cronie monies
Part of developing the technology for a manned mission to Mars. $3 billion additional a year over ten years is $30 billion. We had a communist green czar who was going to control $60 billion to employ ex-convicts to install solar panels on your home. This is insanity.
The Chinese will send people to the Moon, but America can’t, part of the Obama legacy.
Fail.
Here is an article saying something like that, though not with those figures.
WaPo:
Thank you, Chap, for the link!
The highlighted part is what is of concern and what I couldn’t remember; the story I heard (CBS Radio), said GM stock would have to hit higher than ever before in GM’s history -
OF course, something Obama hasn’t thought about, which is certainly going to gall him to no end: By canceling the Moon project, he is making it certain that the only Americans ever to set foot on the Moon are can do white, Christian, males.
My initial response was way too wordy, so hopefully I can cut it down…
I suspect the point I was getting to was about how much time is being spent on validating the rebate prior to paying it. I suspect that since the B2Bs are typically more about a mutual interest in increased sales, their vetting process goes much quicker. A dealer that files a fraudulent rebate would risk his future business with the manufacturer.
B2Cs don’t have that luxury of trust. They’re also much more about presenting the illusion of a “sale” knowing that a small percentage of people actually fill out the rebate forms. There’s also a reduced incentive for them to be timely about paying rebates, unlike the aforementioned mutual benefit in the B2B rebate.
I admittedly don’t know enough about how the C4C rebate process works. Hopefully there’s someone here that can shed more light on this from the dealer perspective.
It just seems to me like the government could have streamlined the process a bit. For example, they might have funneled the requests through the same channels as the other incentives and held the auto manufacturers accountable. How many new government administrative roles were created to handle this? Just how capable are these individuals compared to utilizing resources the auto industry already employs?
I just gave Ed kudos for finding this. I should have known it came from you. Great find.
Hey, why don’t you play up Michelle Obama’s patient dumping scheme in Chicago? I know you have repeated it over and over and over again. . . but it emphasizes the Obama’s vast experience in gaming the health care system for profit.
Not really. Ed is especially egregious. he posted his blurb AFTER the original blogger already admitted he was wrong about the numbers.
I’m sorry to hear your original traction had a problem. However, a re-traction is not covered under Obamacare.
Actually, we don’t eat armadillos, but save them for those from less enlightened states. There is a booming market for them apparently in the Blue States, where ‘dillo meat is sold as “free range chicken”……
I believe that one is called the ‘knockometer’.
Been away for awhile but just had to jump in on this…..
In 1990, the federal goverment seized a thriving business in Nevada due to a tax dispute. It seems the business had classified its workers as “independent contractors” when the IRS believed that they were actually “employees”. Due to the period of time this classification was followed, the accrued FICA liability was enormous (independent contractors pay their own FICA).
The business itself was highly profitable, but many years of accrued FICA and other taxes, plus penalties and interest, was too much to absorb. The federal government seized the business as a going concern with the intention of running it to recapture past tax liabilities plus penalties and interest.
The business did not last long under the fed’s management or lack thereof, and the doors were soon closed.
The business in question was the Mustang Ranch, a legal house of ill repute under the laws of the State of Nevada.
If the federal government cannot even run a whorehouse, what on Earth makes anyone think they can do a beter job with healthcare?
You know…if something sounds absurd, it usually only takes 5 seconds of googling to disprove.
Oh, and it wasn’t just a matter of “independent contractor” vs. “employee.” There were a whole host of charges, including racketeering.
There’s a Barney Frank joke in here somewhere, but I’m just too lazy this afternoon.
Even Barney Frank can run a brothel in the basement – how hard can it be?
(Ok, ok, it was his “roomie”….)
Well then here is a list of Government run enterprises:
Amtrak, the Postal Service, GM, form what I have read we the tax payers will never see any of the monies spent to bail them out ever returned, Ditto for Chrysler, The VA Hospital system just to name a few. How about all the monies “borrowed” from the Social Security system? Where did that go and why is it going broke?
I think you just made it. The subtle ones are sometimes best.
See joke #803342…
Difference between an individual buying something and waiting for a rebate and a business:
Timing.
Individuals aren’t typically in a rush to make sure everything is good by month-end, don’t need to pay staff, costs, etc.
A business doesn’t have that luxury.
Of course not. Individuals have no fixed monthly costs. Well, except for rent or mortgage payments. And credit cards. And student loans. And utility bills. And phone bills.
But other than that…
Excellent, Aloha Guy!
Now if you place the words “a moron like” in between “Even” and “Barney”, I think you’d reach perfection.
Thanks – no perfection though….
How much outlay for fraud detection I wonder? In other words, how much will it cost to trim $800-$900 billion of fraud out of Medicare, do you think? Maybe on the order of $1.6 to $1.8 trillion, do you suppose? They could put all the soon-to-be-unemployed insurance company people on the case, couldn’t they?
Chap, I can’t believe that you’re comparing government accounts payable practices with one of the lowest forms of bait and switch money transfer schemes! I ..er..um.. nevermind.
I guess we’re not getting any correction from MM. And she wonders why bloggers don’t get respect like real journalists.
Yeah, where’s Banacek when you need him?
So you see the IRS as being altruistic, then. Well they just stole 1600 bucks right out of my bank account. There is no way to square the circle of how they arrived at the point of taking money from me.
The levied an account that wasn’t even attached to the business they claimed owed taxes. They aren’t in a hurry to repay me and issue a ‘retraction’ either.
My accountant is very good and honest. It doesn’t make sense to him either. But hey, chap, the IRS is altruistic, right? A charity foundation only out to do good for American businesses, right?
This is just about the excuse I need to move my American business overseas and out of the jurisdiction of the IRS. . . I hear Switzerland is good for businesses. . . with the internet, who needs to be located in America?
RSS – “real journalists” ? Can you please point out a few “real journalists” for our amusement?
Let me help you –
Freidman? Gibson? Couric? Olbermann? wait wait I know – Colbert and Jon Stewart? Or maybe “Tingles” Matthews?
The blogger to which she linked has the update at the top of the screen. We can all read it for ourselves.
There’s been a decent discussion here about the error and other factors. Plus, it’s not as though some clock on updating the post with the correction has expired.
Chillax.
However, we thank you for your service as the unofficial ombudsman.
What are you talking about?
I am sorry they apparently screwed up with you. that does not make Jim M’s version of the Mustang Ranch story any more true.
Those are all duds (except for Colbert and Stewart who don’t pretend to be journalists). Are we really that removed from real reporting that we only consider talking heads journalists? Jake Tapper is a reporter. Keith Olbermann and Michelle Malkin are partisan hacks.
Holy Cr*p.
Red State Skeptic said:
If thats the case, why do you come here?
You impertinent poltroon! To mention Michelle’s name in the same breath as Olbermann, is beyond the pale! You should be flogged with soggy cauliflower, until you’re red with shame!
5 seconds of googling? It shows.
About.com? That’s the unimpeachable source? Any other MoveOn surrogates you want to quote here?
Try reading the court docs. The government obtained the business through a forfeiture action. There were other charges, yes, like RICO. RICO requires a predicate act, and the predicate act here was tax fraud and the tax fraud allegation was based on the contractor/employee conundrum.
The government DID own the business. The fact that a bankruptcy court judge did not agree with it continuing is actually covered under bankruptcy law. You either go through a reorganization or a liquidation, and the decision whether you go Chapter 7 or Chapter 11 is one for the Court to make. If the judge determines that there is no prospect of the business emerging from bankruptcy as a viable enterprise, the business goes to liquidation.
Keep up those 5 second google searches. Maybe you can find a 5 second law degree out there in the ethernet……
RSS said
I don’t consider them journalists – but its nice to hear you don’t either.
One of the few doing his job it appears. We’ll see.
Just wanted to close the loop on the reliability of About.com – it is owned by the New York Times.
No one disputed that, genius. What is NOT true is that they tried to operate it and ran it out of business out of incompetence, which is what you were trying to argue.
Whew; thank G-d RSS came in here & saved me from posting any more syllables on this hack’s website…
dooooiiieeee
My wife just called from Walmart (in Texas) to tell me that she overheard two women talking about the speech last night. One told the other that she was going to send $50 to Rep. Wilson in support. I’m hoping that this represents how most Americans feel. This is not a typical debate that is viewed as only worthy of TV talking heads. The everyday citizen is taking this government health care takeover threat personally. The spirit of Paul Revere is riding again. Let’s hope that the alarm being raised results in a groundswell of action. We need to reaffirm and reassert the vision of the Founders and repudiate, once and for all, the principles of the progressive villains trying to crush our Liberty. DON’T TREAD ON ME!
And stop trying to make it sound like the owner was all above the books and had a simple dispute over the status of workers, where he had a legal opinion from his lawyers and the IRS simply wanted its piece and went after an innocent business owner.
He was keeping virtually no records and providing virtually no information on his tax return. And then he secretly bought the brothel back and got into the same trouble 9 years later.
You better tell them to dig a bit deeper. That little outburst by Wilson has managed to raise over $160,000 for his opponent in less than a day on ActBlue alone.
Well, Chap. Like I said, it is my hope. To me, the point isn’t about the money. It’s the sentiment of an ordinary person shopping at Walmart. Most people would normally be only talking about Ellen joining American Idol (although, that is pretty cool!). I’ve been trying to wake people up for years to deaf ears. It’s happening, Chap.