A message from Vets for Freedom
Sgt. Daniel Bell writes…
Fellow Vets for Freedom members:
My name is Sergeant Daniel Bell and I’m the Missouri State Captain of Vets for Freedom. Much more importantly, I served as a Special Operations Medic under General Stanley McChrysal in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
Serving under General McChrystal–one of the most frequently deployed service members to Iraq and Afghanistan–gave me a first-hand perspective on this man’s dedication to our country. Whether I was listening to one of his briefs, or flying alongside him on a mission, Gen. McChrystal’s decisive leadership was always evident.
CLICK HERE to sign the “Give our Generals What They Need” Petition.
He always instilled confidence in the men of his task force by leading the way–and being on the ground–during dangerous missions. If there ever was a commander who knows what is taking place on the ground, and understands why type of strategy we need to win, it is Stan McChrystal.
There is no military leader I respect more than General McChrystal. Our troops in Afghanistan could not have a more competent and dedicated commander, and I’m committed to doing anything possible to ensure General McChrystal is given the support he needs to turn the tide in Afghanistan.
Please join me in supporting General McChrystal by signing the Vets for Freedom “Give the Generals What They Need” Petition.
Move out and draw fire!
Sergeant Daniel Bell
U.S. Veteran, Iraq and Afghanistan
Missouri State Captain, Vets for Freedom
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I signed, it took 15 seconds to do so.
Damn straight I signed it. I have too many friends on a wall to let this crap happen again.
Done. We need to support our troops.
It’s a crying shame that it has come to this, but this patriotic American signed it!
Sent my round down range.
To most Americans today, Vietnam is like WW2…history. I, too, have friends on the wall; classmates. I haven’t forgotten them.
Thanks for posting this, Michelle!
I signed and posted at our website.
Done.
signed, but the country remains without a real cinc.
A bit OT -
It would seem that Obama is insulting the British again.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/davidhughes/100011208/barack-obamas-churlishness-is-unforgivable/
But he sat there and recieved the accolades of our enemies.
Done. Pray for our fighting men and women.
Damn Straight … Done … untie our military’s hands, give them what they need, and let them do what they do best …
DesertLover
SSGT USMC
Viet Nam
Signed it and sent it…Now lets make sure we all send this link to our friends and fire for effect!
Done.
Proudly served and proudly signed!
Rick Prendergast
Commander USN Ret.
1968-1995
Naval Aviator
I signed it too.
i too have friends on the wall, and i can’t say enough that the u.n. and it’s sister do gooders around the world are very quick to get us into these wars, because they want us to nation build for them. IF we go to war, go to win with everything we have, then leave them to pick up the pieces. the u.n. has a mission to nation build or democracy spread, or just take the u.s. money and eat well. THE LESSON OF VIETNAM, IRAQ, KOREA, BOSNIA, AFGHANISTAN IS GO TO WAR, KILL THE ENEMY WITH AS MUCH FORCE AS YOU CAN MUSTER, AND COME HOME TO A VICTOR’S PARADE WHILE THE CITIZEN’S OF THAT DECIMATED PLACE FIGURE OUT WHY THEIR GOVERNMENT WAS SO STUPID AS TO CHALLENGE US.
This Patriotic American signed.
If you won’t stand behind our troops, then go over there and stand in front of them.
Done!
” . . . type of strategy we need to win . . . “
I can’t imagine anyone disagreeing that a General knows how to ‘win’ a war, but I look forward to hearing the definition of ‘win’.
Why did former Sec State Rice say that the Taliban and Al Qaeda had been defeated in Afghanistan? Had we won then?
Capturing and killing Osama bin Laden and Omar Mullah, is that part of ‘win’?
Al Qaeda and Taliban are akin to political organizations that constantly recruit based on ideologies. You can kill a man, but not an idea. Does the definition of ‘win’ address this reality?
Trust of the Afghan politicians, people, military and a history of defeating those who have come to their land, how does the definition of ‘win’ addre4ss this reality?
Address the the presence of Al Qaeda and the Taliban (and, their suppoters) in Pakistan in the definition of ‘win’. Will it be necessary to have enough American troops to prevent them from coming across the Afghanistan-Pakistan border?
I’d like to know why it has taken seven years to ‘win’ and what time frame will this ‘win’ happen?
In no way am I doubting the ability to ‘win’ but details are required. A definition is required.
I signed it. Having our service members in harms way under this Obama hurts to the core. That a General McChrystal is but a pawn in Obama’s Great Game sickens.
May the day come when we can tell the world to kiss our departing butts and send our sons “over there” no more. Isn’t that why we invented ballistic missiles? Continental defense should suffice.
I signed twice, once for me as a Proud American and the other for my husband who is a VM Navy vet. God, please keep all our military safe from harm.
L
SIGNED!
I’m sure most of my cold war compadres will agree, this is as bad as when Jimmy Carter had the keys to the oval office, we didn’t have any support back then. We need to get behind our troops now or the new president in 2012 won’t have anything to rebuild.
zyzzyg said:
Here is my definition:
Every single Taliban and Al Qaeda enemy killed should be sown up in a pig skin and buried that way. No Prisoners, just let them know under no uncertain terms that they will die if engaged with our troops. The only way to win this is induce such fear into them they will think twice about the repercussions of any agressive act.
Done.
Correct.
We are in a war for civilizational survival against evil barbarism.
That may not be a politically or diplomatically “correct” statement, but it is correct as far as reality is concerned.
And I am so tired of individuals who, when wild animals are lunging for our throats, try to demonstrate their deep thinking, instead of helping out and thinking of ways to kill more animals more quickly and with fewer casulaties for us…yes, I think that this is an appropriate metaphor.
Done!
zyzzyg, sit down and shut up.
zyzzyg said:
And before you wring your hands and say this is so uncivilized – for me the gloves came off when they cut Daniel Pearls head off, as well as others, like goat.
Not surprised by this intelligent and cogent response to my post.
At least Stillontheroad had the stones to offer an attempt at a reasonable answer.
Try adding something to the conversation instead of emotional petulance and knee jerk responses. The topic is entirely too important to dive into not knowing whether you are diving from a cliff head first into the deep end, . . . or shallow end.
You may not appreciate it, but the decision involves the lives of Americans.
OK, so what is your definition of ‘win’?
A somewhat reasonable attempt at an answer though I have reservations.
Engaging our troops is one thing, and if they do not, how does that prevent them from attacking us as they did on 9/11? Isn’t that part of ‘win’.
I would hope that ‘win’ would include making them incapable of another attack, of any type, against us. Do you agree? And, yes instilling the fear of ‘Allah’ in them is workable and be successful how? Because, as you know, they live to die for their cause.
Please, ask me if something is uncivilized, and avoid assigning motives to me.
There is something to be said for surgical military actions, but I prefer big dumb bombs. When it is decided to go to war it is to kill people, break things and make your enemy submit.
Exactly. Trying to nation build in a war is not so much idiotic as it is insane.
I read somewhere (can’t remember where, but it was a long time ago) that a military win is when the other side either can’t or is unwilling to continue fighting. Thus the last time we actually won a war was in 1945. Since then we have been satisfied with a draw (Korea along with every where else we are still keeping the peace) or a quit (VietNam, Somalia, first gulf war).
For me a win in this war would be defined as when islamist thugs are no longer willing or able to attack, either through violence, social change or immigration/breeding, our culture/civilization. Once we achieve that, we can bring our troops and foreign aid home where it belongs.
Incidentally I signed twice, once as a vet and once as a proud two time Blue Star father.
I signed as a Proud American.
If al Quaeda and the Taliban have their way, none of us will be allowed to speak our minds in any forum.
I will not back or bow down!
zyggy, zyggy, zyggy. You said “In no way am I doubting the ability to ‘win’ but details are required. A definition is required.”
No. I am not “required” to furnish you with either “details” or a “definition.”
As someone who was a huge war supporter from 2001-2005, it’s hard to address folks about this.
You see, in 2005 I started studying Islam, which changed my views tremendously.
The person that most reflects these views now, is another student of Islam, Diana West
http://www.dianawest.net
I don’t see either Iraq of Afghanistan as a sucess nor worth the men, material, or money any longer.
And with both falling apart rapidly, we should learn that Infidels can not do Islamic Nation Building. But, the neoCONS seem to believe we can win the “Hearts and Minds” of Muslims.
You’d think with both theatres going badly, and at a time when this Country is broke, they would want to stop spending money on this project.
I heard wind bag Limbaugh the other day say if we leave Afghanistan, we are inviting another 9/11. HELLO! Those who attacked us were HERE, as Immigrants and Visa holders! If anything, it SHOULD tell us to end Islamic Immigration and Visas.
But, Bush greatly expanded Muslim immigration, and Obama has as well.
So, those that have taked the time to read countless books on Islam, tend to realize the obvious, it aint workin’
Iraq is a sattelite to Iran. Jihad Indoctrination starts young, and is taught in the schools, and is on TV over there daily.
The best we could do is tighten up our borders, our ports, and stop Muslim immigration. Not because most Muslims are Jihadists, clearly that is NOT the case. But because we have no way of knowing if they are or not!
End the wars. We have an incompetant Commander in Chief, and worthless military leaders. Marines are now in Islamic Head Garb in Afghanistan, delivering goat, and Fertilizer, which resently, they used to make BOMBS.
Can’t we learn in D.C.?
Def. “win” Kill them all!! Let God sort them out!
http://www.diana west.net
Look for:
It isn’t Just More Troops That McChrystal Wants
Surging for Nothing
“The War in Washington”
Bridge over the River Kwai to Afghanistan
There is much more there as well. She seems to be one of the only honest conservatives left!
Thank you for adding to the conversation.
I agree, ” . . . that a military win is when the other side either can’t or is unwilling to continue fighting.”
However, is that possible with an enemy such as Al Qaeda? And, isn’t Al Qaeda more of an ideology that continues to recruit and have resources located in Pakistan, from which they base their attacks? Does ‘win’ mean stopping at the Pakistan border with Afghanistan? Not to mention, not going into the Wahabbi Saudi Arabia to stop the recruits.
These are all elements that may involve the definition of ‘win’ and addressing them is crucial in achieving that objective.
Though the question is, what is the definition of ‘win’. How does sending more troops to Afghanistan impact immigration, breeding and social change? You mentioned this, adding it to the conversation, and I simply ask the question.
Yep, the definition of ‘win’ is complicated and deserves a conversation that results in a strategy that will work. Do you agree?
Yes, I want to ‘win’ but is sending more troops the only way to do so?
Diana writes in part today:
The quick read on Gen. Stanley McChrystal’s Afghanistan “assessment” is that the general is asking for more troops — and, as the refrain always seems to go, who can argue with the commander on the ground?
But McChrystal isn’t just asking for more troops, and he makes this very clear at several points in his paper. He writes:
Additional resources are required, but focusing on force or resource requirements misses the point entirely. The key takeaway from this assessment is the urgent need for a significant change to our strategy and the way that we think and operate.
I spent this week’s upcoming column dealing with this “significant change” — – which officially and emphatically repeats his call for “population protection” at great peril to our troops — but just wanted to note in advance that this strategy change is so important to McChrystal that he also writes:
Without a new strategy, the mission should not be resourced.
The new strategy is an abomination and the mission should be completely reconceived.
Hint: Following through on Washington’s committment to Islam-free analysis when dealing with the Islamic world, the McChrystal assessment never once mentions Islam. This gets beyond ridiculous when “assessing” the Taliban (see here how they “assess” things themselves.). And hint: The outdated focus on Afghanistan ignores the jihadist movement’s switch to multiple safe havens as discussed here.
More to come.
Another snip from Diana West:
Now that all eyes are on Afghanistan, it is more important than ever that we keep our experience in Iraq in view. We must now assess the net effect of the Iraqi “surge” strategy, however shocking that may be, before we recommit to that same disastrous strategy in Afghanistan. The simple lesson of Iraq is that nation-building in Islam builds a nation that is Islamic, and, therefore, constitutionally, legally, religiously, and culturally incapable of standing as an ally against global jihad.
The fact is, we don’t “get” anything from our heavy investment in Iraq, just as we won’t “get” anything out of our heavy investment in Afghanistan. We urgently need a new line of battle drawn around the West served by a multilevel strategy organized and coordinated around a simple…
Study Islam, it is very important folks.
http://www.jihadwatch.org
http://www.dianawest.net
Enjoy your day
You may have inserted yourself into the position of answering the quetion, but the reality is, the question was asked in response to what Sgt Daniel Bell said in his letter.
You are, of course, welcome to answer or, not answer. You chose to address my post without adding to the conversation, as others have, and I have questioned your approach.
Attacking the messenger vice addressing the message is a weak liberal tradition.
Since you are unwilling to answer questions, despite the fact that you have inserted yourself into the discussion, it serves no purpose to continue a conversation with you.
*Gladly signed the petition; We must fully support our troops in their efforts.
*As I have said before about Afghanistan, it’s either overwhelming force, or get out; You can’t build a nation out of a sandbox, but you can effectively eradicate the followers of a 7th century invented religion of death cult savages, then turn the country over to those that wish to join us in the 21st century.
Glad to sign the petition for myself and spouse, both vets. I am thinking of what General Patton said, “The first rule of war is to kill your enemy and take their land” If they won’t surrender to us, it’s time to determine if the place would make a nice glass factory.
You’re right that the ability to win according to my definition would involve much more than sending more troops to Afghanistan. But Afghanistan is the current focal point of the battle. And the previous and current administrations have neither the will or the foresight to fight to win anything but hearts and minds.
So until we can get the government to stop muslim immigration, close down madrassas that preach jihad, deport those that are fighting us, take on Saudi Arabia’s efforts to fund jihad etc etc., we have to fight to contain the most violent of the enemy.
It wouldn’t have done us any good to fight the Germans by sending a brigade of combat troops to Normandy. It took a heck of a lot more to take the fight to the enemy.
Afghanistan is where the fight is, so we need to send enough troops to win the fight in it’s current state. And when they give up Afghanistan and take the fight elsewhere (as they’ve done in Iraq for the most part), we will need to send troops there also, and keep doing it until they either can’t or aren’t willing to keep fighting.
Walterc, as you realize, the fight is everywhere. Spending our resources trying to temporarily involve the worst of them far away from us just weakens us and strengthens them globally until the next time they hit us at home.
Better to come home and do our best to defend our borders, striking hard at any overseas threats we see developing. For instance, we should have bombed Saddam’s Iraq back to the stone age instead of nation building an ally for Iran (the worst of the terrorist supporting countries).
If we are politically unable to defend our borders and politically unable to effectively bomb our mortal enemies because of the collateral casualties, then we deserve what is coming. We will have to relearn the lessons of the world.
The sooner we realize we are in a war for our survival and our enemies are perfectly willing and able to put all of our heads on pikes, the better chance we will have of actually winning it.
I signed the petition.
A long time ago the US Army Officer Corps, made an unspoken promise that we would never commit them without the support of the people of the United States. Help keep that promise and make sure that the men and women sacrificing themselves are not doing so in vain.
I can also second Sergeant Bell’s assessment of McChrystal.
There are those who say we should pull back and defend our borders rather than to take the battle to the enemy. Defense has never succeeded as a long term strategy. Primarily because one can only defend against that which one can anticipate. You can’t anticipate everything. You can’t defend everything effectively. It is far better to stay on the offense to hit the enemy at a place and time of your choice. A good constant offense is effective in taking the initiative from the enemy and leaving them in a reactive posture. That was one of the by-products of the Iraqi invasion. It is also one of the things that we need to continue. What is known to the enemy is that we’ve defined Afghanistan as a place where we have a vested interest. What is not known to them, is that there have been successful counter-insurgencies. In order for this one to be successful the answers are to be found not so much in military might as much as it is a political and economic problem with answers in that arena. The additional troops are only necessary to provide stability and buy time for the needed changes in politics and economics. But we need them and the political and economic assets that Gen. McChrystal has undoubtedly also requested.
Why should anyone tell the likes of you what a proper military strategy is? All someone like you needs to know is that a proper military victory over Muslim extremists like the Taliban involves a pile of unwashed dead bodies, a foot crushing a throat, a bayonet inches from an eyeball and the question “Care to negotiate?”
Speaking of people of spit on our soldiers…
(damn! that was ‘who’ not ‘of’!)