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Thank you for your willingness to understand where my convictions come from because we’re not all the same (and, seriously, Fred Phelps and his “church” – really his family more than anything – are a band of f-ing, abusive, certifiable nutters. I can’t emphasize that enough).

I support the will of the voting public, however you should be aware that Prop 8 was only about how we define the word “marriage.” I presume once everyone settles on a different word for it, you will return the favor and respect the democratic process when voters approve gay anything-but-marriage in the next couple years.

Gay people just want to have their families recognized by the state (This is where you guys get to piously cite the “separation of church and state.” No one can force your church to recognize gay couples or perform gay marriages any more than a Muslim or Satan-worshipping couple can – churches are allowed to “discriminate” as they see fit, so long as they do not accept any tax dollars) and have the basic rights that go along with it. Could you imagine going to visit your spouse lying in their death bed, only to be turned away because you are not “family?” You may believe our families are inferior to yours, our actions sinful, but we still exist, we still have the capacity to love, and these kinds of things still happen to us. How can you reconcile this sort of discrimination with your belief that gay people deserve “love and respect” like everyone else? Gay marriage is not about forcing people to accept us, it’s about our families being treated equally under the law.

I understand how difficult it had to be for you to be shunned for converting. Now can you imagine what it would feel like to be treated that way while living in a world where you are part of a fractured, often hidden minority, and to constantly have to defend and validate your existence against charges of being “sick” and “evil,” not for what you believe but for what you are, what you always have been? I don’t care what the Catholic Church teaches you about whether homosexuality is “intrinsic,” I am telling you it is based on my own experience. My only “choice” was to either muster the courage to accept myself and all the challenges that go with it, or live a self-destructive lie that could eventaully cause serious emtional harm to others (think Ted Haggard). I have no question whatsoever the “choice” I made was the correct one for someone in my position.

I can tell by your words and your beliefs you are a deeply caring and loving person, and I appreciate your willingness to parse out the views of your church from that of the likes of Fred Phelps (although for the record my family is deeply, deeply Catholic on my dad’s side, however they are also extremely liberal, so I know that Catholics are better at reconciling their beliefs with reality than others may be). My apologies if I have misconstrued your views, but it’s easy to do when you are part of an online community where hateful comments against gays are not uncommon and go unchallenged by the greater majority.

Now if you don’t mind, I would like to close out this discussion, offer you a truce, and agree to disagree with you about these matters. I do not like to have negative energy between me and another person, even a faceless pseudonym on my computer screen. I know there is nothing I can ever say to change your mind, although I do appreciate the passion of your convictions and your willingness to take the time to debate with me.

It’s evident you are willing to believe only that which conforms to your world view and disregard things that challenge it, so I’m not going to get into a debate with you over what I have witnessed with my own two eyes vs. a page of select images compiled by a person who clearly has a bone to pick with gay people and liberals in general. By all means, continue to believe what you wish.

Funny how not once you condemn those behaviors you say were in the minority. So now sexually explicit acts in public are OKAY? Either the standard is we stay out of the bedrooms or they keep oral sex in the confines of their home; not a street in public where CHILDREN are present.

And it’s really interesting you attack me for disregarding things which challenge my worldview when – for not a second – do you acknowledge or consider the worldview I’m presenting as a challenge to yours.

No dear, that’s my life, and my friends’ lives as well. Tell me, have you had family members disown you for being Catholic?

Yes, as a matter of fact I have. I had a friend who once walked out of a date about 15 minutes into it because the guy was Catholic, who hates the Pope and teaching in general. I had friends who refused to attend my wedding because I’m Catholic and – to them – marriage is not a sacrament and my marriage is invalid. Same with family. I’m “brainwashed” and “stupid” for believing in the Catholic Church. I was “forced” to convert. On a daily basis the media slams Catholics and Catholic teaching.

My attitude is “screw ‘em”…I believe they are wrong and I am right. I confront them when I can, ignore them when they won’t listen. I let them be because my faith is also my life, too. I cannot separate them any more than you can separate yourself from your orientation. And their incorrect views on my faith aren’t going to undermine my beliefs.

The difference is I don’t go running to Congress or the Courts for extra protections or legislation to stop them from being jackasses. Because, see, people like that are always going to exist. You can’t legislate or hate-crime them away.

Compassion is not the same as tolerance and is not the same as acceptance. I have compassion that you have a sexual attraction that makes life difficult. But I cannot tolerate or accept what I consider sinful behavior. Remember that word: BEHAVIOR. You, personally, are not evil because of your orientation. I do not believe you are condemned to hell or are otherwise sub-human. You, however, are muddling Catholic teaching with the more generic, Protestant, Fred Phelps view on homosexuality.

Catholicism believes that homosexuality may/may not be intrinsic. That – in and of itself – is no more sinful or evil than being heterosexual. It’s just an orientation.

What is the problem is when you – or I, when I was unmarried (or any unmarried person) – act on those attractions. See, Catholic teaching holds everyone to the exact same standard: sexual activity outside of marriage is a sin. It’s not more of a sin because it’s homosexual activity or less of a sin because it’s heterosexual. The Catholic Church does not condone violence toward homosexuals, nor does it condone unjust discrimination (in employment, for example) against homosexuals. We acknowledge them as human beings deserving of love and respect.

Sex is to be ordered toward the good and confined to a life-giving, loving, sacramental marriage – something that not everyone (gay or straight) can enter into. I am not inclined to agree with, nor am I responsible to, other denominations of Christianity that teach otherwise. It may enlighten you to know the same people who call you “evil” also think we Catholics are bedding with the Whore of Satan (the Catholic Church) and Satan himself (the Pope).

And – only slightly less important than my faith – what I really have a problem with is how the homosexual agenda runs roughshod over our school curricula, our free speech, our right to set the cultural norms and mores which we adhere to via the democratic process (because, logically, not just blue haired octogenarians are voting in favor of marriage amendments – to pass as widely as they have, people from ALL demographics have to be voting…especially for them to pass in blue states like CA or my home state of WI). I have a problem when the rights of parents are trumped by this agenda, when the right of churches and independent persons to freely express and practice their faith are threatened by this agenda, I have a problem with adding homosexual behavior to the curricula in any school (I believe sex ed should be taught by parents in the home, not the schools – along with lots of other “make work” classes offered today).

I again ask why a “safe schools czar” needs to have an emphasis on making schools safer solely for students who are presumed to be gay by their peers? Do others not of a homosexual orientation deserve a safe learning environment, too?

If you think for a second you’re going to rid the world of people who disagree with you, or even say things that hurt your feelings, I have news for you: it isn’t going to happen.

When did I say I do want this? You certainly seem to relish your own sense of victimhood, as you do here time and time again, so it’s rather strange you are using this as a line of attack. But if you think someone having her cross destroyed by a mean, angry gay is somehow equivalent to being beaten senseless by the police for being in a gay bar, then you are rather delusional.

Um, perhaps I’m not as worldly as you, but the pictures posted here (again, extremely graphic) don’t look “sexuality neutral” and they certainly don’t look heterosexual (unless the definition has changed…). So I don’t buy that argument for a second.

It’s evident you are willing to believe only that which conforms to your world view and disregard things that challenge it, so I’m not going to get into a debate with you over what I have witnessed with my own two eyes vs. a page of select images compiled by a person who clearly has a bone to pick with gay people and liberals in general. By all means, continue to believe what you wish.

And that’s someone’s opinion.

No dear, that’s my life, and my friends’ lives as well. Tell me, have you had family members disown you for being Catholic? Had your friends talk about how much they hate Catholics while you had to sit there and keep your mouth shut and hope no one ever found out that’s what you were? Well guess what, I have experienced just that, and it’s not fun.

But one blessing that comes of all this is a sense of overwhelming compassion for others (something I was under the impression Christians were supposed to excel at). If you can overcome the hatred and abuse and shunning and come out the other alive, it helps shape you into a much stronger person. But it doesn’t feel that way when it’s actually happening to you. So I guess I should thank you for all the hard work you do to make life difficult for people like me, and hope (along with you) that your children do not make the same “BAD EVIL CHOICE” I did.

First, the Folsom Street Fair is a “sexuality neutral” event. In fact the majority of participants are heterosexual.

Um, perhaps I’m not as worldly as you, but the pictures posted here (again, extremely graphic) don’t look “sexuality neutral” and they certainly don’t look heterosexual (unless the definition has changed…). So I don’t buy that argument for a second.

If you ever stop to wonder why homosexuality is “emotionally and spiritually damaging,” look no further than right there.

And that’s someone’s opinion. Sorry, but people say a lot of nasty things about Catholics, whites, conservatives, “breeders” (people who have kids)…yet I have the courage of my convictions not to expect the government to legislate to make my choices acceptable to those who don’t like it. If you need some law to shut up people who make you feel bad, the problem is far deeper than any law can ultimately protect.

If you think for a second you’re going to rid the world of people who disagree with you, or even say things that hurt your feelings, I have news for you: it isn’t going to happen.

Where was that implied or explicitly stated?

I’m not accusing you of being anti-gay, I’m pointing out the flaw in your logic. We are both filling in the gaps with our own interpretations and leaping to absurd conclusions. Unless you can show me where RSS says or even implies he’s okay with homosexual rape, my comment stands.

Radical, gay activist groups trash our churches

..and police officers charged with maintaining public safety raid gay bars and beat the crap out of their patrons. Neither is excusable, although personally I would take a little vandalism over permanent brain damage. Let me know when something like this happens at a church and I will condede your point.

Because, frankly, lots of us are getting sick and tired of simultaneously being told what others do with their groins is none of our business while the exact same people love to shove their sexuality in our faces. I don’t see any “Heterosexual Pride” parades parades where attendance is compulsory for public servants, no straight versions of the perverted Folsom Street Fair

First, the Folsom Street Fair is a “sexuality neutral” event. In fact the majority of participants are heterosexual. There is a mostly-gay version of the Folsom Street Fair called the Dore Alley Street Fair but for whatever reason no one seems to care about it. More information than you need, I’m sure.

Regarding gay pride, what you fail to understand is that the reason gay people feel compelled to celebrate “pride” (or more precisely, lack of shame) in their sexuality is because some people go out of their way to make them feel as though they should be ashamed of themselves. I’m fairly confident that, if given the choice, most gay people would relinquish their annual pride celebrations if people would stop spreading ignorant crap like, hmmmm, let’s see here… this:

I believe “alternate lifestyles” are a detriment to society. I believe they ruin family morality. I believe that if we don’t stand against it, our country is going to keep going to the gutter. Conservatives, QUIT ACCEPTING IT!! It’s not a biological trait, it’s a choice!!! a BAD EVIL CHOICE!

If you ever stop to wonder why homosexuality is “emotionally and spiritually damaging,” look no further than right there.

If criticizing Chairman Zero in any way makes you a racist, what would you be if you cast aspersions upon the child molestation–supporting, militant pervert Kevin Jennings, Comrade Obama’s choice for Safe Schools Czar? You guessed it: a homophob…

And by your same logic, apparently, you are OKAY with kids getting the crap kicked out of them so long as the victim is gay.

Where was that implied or explicitly stated? At least with RSS, his accusation of us being anti-gay for criticizing a teacher who failed to report sexual abuse (and that’s what it is considered when any man over the age of 18 has sexual relations with a minor – male or female). That implies that we can’t criticize someone who failed to do his legal duty in protecting a child because he’s gay and that the crime really is no big deal (again, because the persons involved are gay).

Bullying in schools is a problem. But the bullies should be stopped regardless of whether their target is (presumed) gay, dresses “funny”, wears glasses, is heavy set, has acne, or any of the other myriad reasons kids are bullied. Why is it any more disappointing or wrong for a kid to be beat up because he’s (presumed) gay than it is for a kid to be beat up because he’s shy or nerdy or wears hand-me-downs?

The problem here is the double standard – the “some are more equal than others” mentality that seems to infiltrate the left. Why does homosexuality, and the protection thereof, trump the rights and safety and dignity of others?

Because, frankly, lots of us are getting sick and tired of simultaneously being told what others do with their groins is none of our business while the exact same people love to shove their sexuality in our faces. I don’t see any “Heterosexual Pride” parades where attendance is compulsory for public servants, no straight versions of the perverted Folsom Street Fair (graphic link).

Radical, gay activist groups trash our churches, mock our most sacred beliefs, and attempt to take away our actual rights to free expression of religion…and we’re just supposed to shut up and take it? We’re supposed to accept when people like you, and RSS, accuse us of being anti-gay and pro-gay beating?

I. DON’T. THINK. SO.

I believe gay people are worthy of respect and dignity, as are all human beings. But I have no obligation or desire to encourage them to live a lifestyle that’s physically, emotionally, and spiritually damaging to them NOR do I have an obligation to support the undermining of an institution (marriage) that has been recognized in similar forms throughout the world for centuries NOR do I have an obligation to expose my children to sex education that includes lessons on homosexuality.

So, apparently, Red State Skeptic is OKAY with rape so long as the perpetrator is gay.

And by your same logic, apparently, you are OKAY with kids getting the crap kicked out of them so long as the victim is gay.

How is it anti-gay to question Jennings’s failure to report a crime when he himself has stated that he wished he handled it differently?

It’s not. The issue is that the far right are equating his efforts to discourage kids from beating up gay students as “promoting homosexuality in schools,” as is clearly detailed in the Media Matters link above, which provides over a half-dozen quotes from the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh saying just that. If you think this particular work is so bad it should disqualify Jennings from his appointment, then why yes, you are anti-gay.

If the outrage was just about him failing to report statutory rape, then why not just leave it at that? It’s a perfectly legitimate criticism of someone who claims to care about children’s safety. The “promoting homosexuality” crap completely undermines their credibility. Hand overplayed.

Funny that the AP didn’t reveal this guy’s name. Here it is. U.S. Capitol Police officer Thomas Patrick McMahon was arrested for unlawfully entering a North Virginia woman’s home and passing out drunk on her bed while she was out…….