Sunday open thread
Busy with family. Talk amongst yourselves.
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Wouldn’t you think his ears would be burning, or his nose itching, or something?
Moi, aussi. Sounds like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.
Knowing him, yep. He’s probably sitting watching all this, waiting for opportune moment to appear.
He does like to play games.
Best way to get his goat is totally ignore him.
Logging out.
I’m out of here too. Time to fix dinner. Hot dish, doncha know.
from Zero hedge…
From Hot Air…
What did they do to our country?
What is Zero hedge?
One last note, be sure to catch “Mad Men” tonight on AMC.
Okay, now I’m really leaving.
Sorry, I forgot the link…
Hey guys. The wife, myself and junior were watching a movie. My brother did marry a woman, you philistines should have gotten that if you read or understood the Golden Apple reference. In any case, this is fortunate for swede otherwise he would be trying to pull his foot out of his mouth since after all, there is nothing wrong with gays getting married.
The meaning of life is what you make of it. I prefer to say it is to be happy, healthy, and kind to others.
42
It would have been a tad more perfect if the genitals weren’t so close to the anus. Must be some mystical plan we are unaware of.
Well, I would be the one having his strings pulled by Satan, not my brother (who is NOT an atheist, despite wanting a secular wedding). In any case, the state offers lots of goodies for marrying folks, is it any wonder the gays want the same?
Well, that would really be a wedding too, wouldn’t it? It was in a hotel, my brother’s friend administered the vows (as I said), and it was in the presence of friends and family. God doesn’t really have to be there and if he really does exist as you all claim, he was there anyway so basically our bases are all covered. It was a wedding in every sense of the word.
“You worry too much about leaving a perfect trail of intellectually airtight argument. No one is listening and so in the end, you end up defending a candidate the Democrats selected for you. Candidates like John McCain, Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty and so on.
If you want to win elections, you have to reach people with a coherent message.”
Well yes but huh?
How is working people up emotionally wihtout substance a good idea? And how does my criticizing doing so turn me into Adlai Stevenson?
On October 4th, 2009 at 6:05 pm, zeroangel said:
Good to know “hopenChangen” hasn’t infected MM’s site. Been busy for months in the editing room, but whenever I get a chance to stop by here, it still feels the same with Zero’s atheist chip perched on his shoulder.
Relax. If He doesn’t exist, it doesn’t matter if everyone else thinks He does. You live in a Judeo-Christian Western society, which teaches free will and freedom to believe or not.
And heck, you can be a conservative and an atheist. In fact if you’re the latter it’s a much smarter choice to be the former. Abrogating your freedom to the State is a trip down dictator alley, and who knows what they’ll LET you believe…
Travel tip though: avoid holidays in Iran, they dislike discussions about Allah’s non-existence.
Atheist or, agnostic…vs. religion…
It all comes down to faith doesn’t it?
China dislikes any talk of religion…
I got an e-mail saying the Fox Obama special was on tonight, (10-4-09), at 9PM Eastern. Hope that’s right, the TV guide doesn’t specifially say what’s on at that time, just a “news special.”
What I’m hearing is that it’s on Hannity on Fox tonite, and it’s about ACORN, not specifically nObama.
But really…what’s the diff?
I’m now hearing that there is a special on at 8:00 and it is a repeat for the umpteenth time of Meghan Kelly’s special on ACORN and her interview with that creepy what’s his name…Radtke or something. If so, I am disappointed as I was made to understand it was about Obama and some new information about his past. They have shown Meghan Kelly’s special about five times now…are they getting lazy over there at FOX??
Oh lighten up FilmLadd. My baiting in this thread was all in good fun. Since monster thread this back and forth ribbing between me and the faithful has become mostly playful.
In any case, our society is also Greco-Roman and I think the philosophic methods and forms of government imparted from those societies have mor to do with our Western freedom than our religuous roots. After all, look what it was like when the Church did hold sway (think Middle Ages).
PS. F*ck Iran. The only time I would even consider going to the mid-east (and the last time I did go) I was well-armed and with lots of well-armed buddies.
FilmLadd:
and…
Think about those two and get back to me. Of course it matters what other people think, especially if they are fundamentalist loons.
Anyhow, I hope your movies are going well. They actually did look kind of neat.
This thread is not happening. Obama has sucked the joy out of the air. All that remains is cynicism and the smell of gunpowder.
I wanna see, FilmLadd!
That’s a biblical reference, zero. You don’t want to go there.
No kidding! Skip Fox tonight and wait for “Mad Men” at 9:00E, 10:00C.
Oh,my. We can’t have that!
My wife and I went finally got a chance to eat at the new Cracker Barrel across the street from us. The place is always busy. Then to Target to buy 11 jugs of cat litter. Yes, ELEVEN.
On to mass after that, then on to see the family and our godchildren.
Finally, we came back home to take part in the Life Chain today. We stood silent on a street corner in opposition to abortion.
It was a good day.
I don’t see how you get Greco-Roman without religion, dude. Started at the battle of Milvian Bridge (a.d. 325) The night before the battle Constantine had a dream of the symbol chi-rho, the first letters in Christos. He ordered it painted on his soldiers shields and defeated Maxentius, consolidating his empire. Christianity became the official religion of Rome until its fall.
Anyway congrats to your brother et al. I’m glad the civil ceremony went well!
I oould live on their hashbrown casserole.
I am like, mesmerized.
Speaking of Monster Thread, what is the current status of Kingfish’s daughter?
She’s having her big surgery in a few weeks.
Negative. Watching him and his Ivy League team spiraling in toward terra firma will be a source of great joy. The tide is turning quickly. Hang on.
Like after a Dear Leader speech? Yes we can! Yes we can… Leg tingling stuff!
Hanging like a hair on a biscut. But I’ll remain anxious until I am satisfied that the majority have been paying attention for a change and not idly sitting in front of the stupid box, flipping between Dancing With The Stars and CNN.
Hell, no! You wrote something with memorable substance. Something you can bite on.
On October 4th, 2009 at 8:01 pm, purealchemy said:
My first movie Flatland you can get on Amazon here and http://www.FlatlandTheFilm.com.
I’m still in post-production on Hive Mind but you can see a trailer & pre-order at http://www.HiveMindMovie.com.
Hive Mind’s a science fiction film, post-apocalyptic. A conservative talk show host is the last man on earth. Everyone else has been consumed by Hive Mind.
On October 4th, 2009 at 7:31 pm, zeroangel said:
I shoulda said, “it doesn’t matter what other people think in a free western society.”
Thanks and well-wishes to you & the newlyweds as well.
Okay, back to work for me. See ya guys in a few weeks.
It really is looking like the suicidal teleprompter moment was an omen.
Thanks, FilmLadd. I will check it out!
Logging out.
In the sequel, give him a girlfriend so they can repopulate the earth with little conservatives.
Just some historical fact to mess with zero’s worldview.
“Facts are stubborn things. Statistics are somewhat more pliable.” – Mark Twain
I’m thinking it will be Plugs Bidet, Adolf Pelosi and Dingy Harry – the unHoly trinity – that will doom him.
Can you believe Bozo Biden is actually arguing with a highly decorated front line 5 star general about military strategy? Put a large sock in it Joe.
Dingy worries me. With his support tanking in Nevada, he may feel like he has nothing to lose and pull the nuclear option (reconciliation) to shove BarryCare through. “This war is lost.”
Nothing surprises me anymore, seeing the extreme left in charge of all branches for 2 years and (almost) 10 months. They are taking every opportunity they can to blow the dust off of every crazy policy they’ve had in the drawer for 30 years for such a time as this. And with Obama tanking, none feel like they have a need to hide anything anymore. May as well shoot things full of holes as they go down in flames. Blue dogs will always be there to carry the torch forward, so what the hell…
Fox is a bust tonight…repeats from last night. Office party?
FilmLadd – The clips are awesome! Congrats! Hope the new film does well.
My cousin also told me it was a big special on Obama. However, I never saw this ACORN report before so it’s ‘ new to me’. And even if I had already seen it, Megan Kelly for the umpteenth time is okay by me!
Has there ever been a real investigative look at Barry’s past on TV? I don’t think so. Maybe the usual, “born poor, overcame racism and did good” fluff piece, but nothing that really looks into his past. I guess Glenn Beck comes close?
Interesting trailers, FilmLadd. Were both productions done in digital or was some shot on film?
Ah, for the days of sending 16mm footage to some lab in CA to have it sound striped….
Aren’t all the news cables pretty much reruns on the weekend other than their live weekend news reporting?
Good grief. El Baradei just declared that Israel is the greatest threat to peace in the Middle East.
I can’t wait to hear who shook hands with the devil this time and what it cost us.
Pure:
What? Atheists aren’t allowed to make biblical references? Yah, I see the writing on the wall.
Swede:
The systems of government and philosophical methods we use today had their starts LONG before Christianity took hold of the Roman Empire. If anything, the Roman Catholic church helped perpetuate monarchies as opposed to representative governments all through the Middle Ages.
Sorry, it was a wedding, with or without any god. Civil ceremonies are drab affairs with a judge and no party. This was a wedding by anyone’s standard (except maybe fundamentalists that can’t even have a meal without talking to their invisible friend).
FilmLadd:
It really does, especially if there are folks on school boards that think dinosaurs and humans co-existed.
Heh! & snicker..
Here yuh go, ZA. This should be good for a few hundred comments!
(Link to Google Video)
100 Reasons Why Evolution Is So Stupid
purplepeep:
I only need one. “Dr.” Kent Hovid (the star of that video) is currently serving a ten year stint for tax evasion and a host of other charges.
His arguments are stupid and he has no credibility.
A civil time was said to have been had by all.
Nite all. I’ll try to check in in the morning. Perhaps purealchemy’s dream of a new super thread can become reality.
Does it threaten you to think that there may be some public educators and board members that do not prescribe to your theory of the origin of life? Public education is so biased as it is without condeming a handful that may be able to think for themselves. Besides, they teach from textbooks that are overwhelmingly bent toward evolution anyway.
purplepeep:
Here yuh go, ZA. This should be good for a few hundred comments!
Yup, ZA, he didn’t play nice with the IRS – but that doesn’t address the questions raised re: evolution. Galileo was imprisoned and then sentenced to house arrest for life for contradicting the scientific consensus of his time. So it’s kind of a shoot the messenger thing goin’ on.
On October 4th, 2009 at 9:48 pm, purplepeep said:
Flatland was 3D animation, so it was all digital.
Hive Mind was shot on the Red Cam, which is film resolution digital (4k). Beautiful camera: http://www.red.com
I used to do 16mm and 35mm. The discipline built skills that have helped me in the digital age; other than that, I am very glad for computerized filmmaking and would never want to turn back the clock.
jangar / purplepeep:
Hovind, IIRC, believes dinosaurs and humans co-existed. Perhaps I’ll address (once again) why this stupidity is wrong tommorrow, but do I really have to?
Remind me, are either or you that hopelessly ignorant? The idea is every bit as stupid as the idea that the Earth is flat.
Even some of the most religious tell themselves that “days” in Genesis could have meant millions of years.
Good night.
Good night, Z.
Hey purple…wanna buy a dinosaur saddle?
I like both media, both have their uses. But I love the look of film.
I got first got involved in the late 70s, it was great youthful fun getting work as an extra when a major production would blow into town!
On October 4th, 2009 at 9:56 pm, zeroangel said:
Seriously, your nightmares consist of school board members outlawing evolution in Colorado or something?
Puhlease. The modern Christian “fundamentalist” menace is about as frightening as Mickey Mouse.
When Ma and Pa Kansas start blowing themselves up at Pizza Huts to install a Christian theocracy, or kidnap me with intent to kill or convert me to some Baptist sect that practices snake handling, then maybe I’ll share your deep concern.
Otherwise you’re just being plain silly and the stories of the Spanish Inquisition hit you a bit too hard in high school.
LOL, no ZA, I was just yanking your chain for 100 comments of a refuting nature. Macht nichts to me. But it would be like “MST3K for Darwinists” for you!
Life was pretty damn brutal under the pagan Romans, too, if not moreso, especially if you were a slave. Medieval serfdom may not have been much of a fun existence, but believe me, if you were a Roman slave, you would have regarded it as a dream come true.
As regards our own legal traditions, you can’t ignore the Judeo-Christian roots of it. The Puritans of New England, despite their lack of respect for religious freedoms, were among the most democratic societies known to man. Likewise Thomas Jefferson, probably the most libertarian and antitheocratic of the founders, made far more references to God in expounding on his political philosophy than to ancient Greek and Roman thinkers. Just read the introductory paragraph to his Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom.
Naw, jangar, I already have a saddle for a horse, so I’ll just wait for the dino to evolve into a hoss and I’m good to go!
Benjamin Franklin’s proposal for the Great Seal Of The US:
“Moses standing on the Shore, and extending his Hand over the Sea, thereby causing the same to overwhelm Pharaoh who is sitting in an open Chariot, a Crown on his Head and a Sword in his Hand. Rays from a Pillar of Fire in the Clouds reaching to Moses, to express that he acts by Command of the Deity.”
Of related interest – Time Mag story for Monday, Oct. 12, 2009:
How Moses Shaped America”
In related news, the Reverend Jesse Jackson is blaming Bush for Chicago’s Olympic failure.
No, really, he is:
Story
Perhaps they are finally letting Herbert Hoover rest? Poor Jesse Jackson: the millions he could have skimmed off contractors and vendors-he and the rest of that chum bucket of a city.
I do know my investor group has filed suit against Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow Coalition, several ACORN organizations, others and some of OUR managers for illegal payments. Others have done it–sadly it always goes to arbitration and never to a jury-the arbitrator almost always seals the documents and that is a shame.
FilmLadd:
You know as well as I do that that is their goal and they have made real progress in that past (fortunately they were ultimately defeated) in some states. Futhermore, there are instances where children have died due to lack of care from faith healing. To dismiss this nonsense just because it isn’t serious enough is pretty silly. You are being an apologist.
Blackstone:
You missed the point. It wasn’t about the brutality of life for slaves but the idea that our system of government and philosophic methods (which led to the scientific method) are Greek and Roman in nature and not have nothing to do with our religious roots.
The Puritans did not draw their ideas on government from the Bible.
The same is true of Jefferson who was an educated Enlightenment thinker (no doubt having read the Greek philosophers) and also attempted to rewrite the Bible taking out all miracles.
In the end, the Constitution contains no reference to god. No one is ignoring that our nation and culture has religious components. I am just contending that those components did more to hamper the growth of our nation then to help it.
zero – Again your pseudo intellectual reasoning is more entertaining than enlightening. What do you think Roman philosophy was based on before Christianity? Polytheism…maybe? You seemed all excited about Zeus being being mentioned in your civil ceremony. Religious thought dominated western thought and government until the “Enlightnment” – aka modernism – came into play by Descart et al in the 17th century. Even then, theistic thought was the majority report and still is. Sorry.
Re: monarchies, one could argue that the best form of human government may well be a benevolent monarchy. In practice however, it doesn’t work as wise, benevolent, genuinely altruistic monarchs are rather hard (if not impossible) to find. John Adams argued for an American monarchy, albeit with limited powers. Democracy can lead to things like, well, our present mess.
God bless you and your family zero. Hope you have a prosperous week,
swede:
Honestly. How does Roman or Greek religion coincide with their philosophy or system of government? If anything the ancient philosophers were at odds with the religious. After all, Zeus doesn’t serve 2 terms and then give up his office to the next elected Supreme God.
Come on…
Never heard of Lucretius then have you?
You are the pseudo intellectual here.
No doubt. We can’t even find any among our invented deities.
Swede:
Why do you persist in this nonsense? From claiming Einstein was a creationist to claiming that the Greco-Roman philosophy is based on their religion. It’s absurd. Do you just make-up stuff to fit your worldview?
Odd that at the time of the Jamestown founding there had been so little progress since the Greek-Roman scientific era-the compass and gun powder both came from Asia. Three hundred and fifty years later Christian America is on the moon, dozens of dreaded diseases are controlled and I am driving a Camero Super Sport.
Oh well Einstein got gravity wrong. I am pretty sure he was a creationist of some sort.
ArizonaNeanderthal:
That can be attributed to the Dark Ages. You know, when the church ruled supreme. Scientific progress went backwards during that time. In any case, do you know what Einstein was talking about when he said “Spinoza’s God?” If you did, you wouldn’t claim him as a creationist and you probably would say he was an atheist no matter what he said.
WTF???
Do you really believe people seperate religious worldview with practice? Talk about revisionist history to fit your worldview. BTW, separation of church and state is a New Testament Biblical principle. Check Romans 13 and 15.
Lucretius, as you surely know, was an Epicurian and as such shunned politics altogether. A respected poet, but hardly mainstream Roman thought.
Oh, and yes, Einstein was a deist, certainly not a pantheist as you once alluded to.
This is fun, but have to gete some work done. God bless. C ya later.
On October 5th, 2009 at 7:18 am, zeroangel said:
And uh, in exactly what states was Christian theocracy narrowly averted but for the valiant efforts of the Die Hard atheists?
Movie Idea: imagine an effeminate version of Bruce Willis running through a State Capital Building, which has been taken over by Christian Theocrats… he has no need of a machine gun, just a couple of copies of Dawkin’s latest scribbles…
Yes, time for me to hate all Christians and Jews. Your logic is so crystal clear there really is no possibility of refuting it. Of course! I must despise all religious people because three or four kids a year die from lack of care due to faith healing.
Have you no sense of humor? Have you no sense of humor at all?
Sorry, no matter how hard I try I just can’t get myself scared of the big bad Baptist Torquemada.
Has it occurred to you that you have not achieved complete individuation in the adult maturation process – to co-opt Erich Fromm’s terms – and therefore simply despise the religious because you have a need to reshape others in your own image?
My sense of self and self-worth is not based on controlling others. Ergo, proselytizing atheism to harmless Christians and Jews – and trying to blame it on some trumped up fake fear – just isn’t attractive to me.
It’s rather repellent.
FilmLadd – A fine concept, but hard to get a feature length movie, no? Would be played out in about 10 minutes.
The theme of Flatland reminds me of Plato’s Allegory of the Cave from “The Republic”. Any chance Abbott had some Neo-Platonist influence? Just curious.
Swede:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13&version=NIV
You could call this separation of church and state of a kind. You could also call it the Bible supporting tyranny and opposition to democracy. Either way, it’s a massive stretch to claim that this passage led to the form of government we have today. These passages were used to support ideas like divine right; they have been completely antithetical to the idea of separation of church and state.
As for Lucretius, you missed my point. You claimed:
Lucretius had ideas that were against religious thought long before the Enlightenment. I wasn’t talking about his politics so much as his general thought on the nature of the world. In any case, to try and pretend that Christians and the Bible is responsible for our system of government is ridiculous. Democracy and representative government had it’s start long before Christiainity. Furthermore, Christianity was responsible for supporting many of Europe’s tyrants throughout history via the passages you mentioned.
He said he believes in Spinoza’s god. Spinoza was not a Deist, even conservapedia agrees with me there:
http://www.conservapedia.com/Baruch_Spinoza
FilmLadd:
All you are doing is basically saying, ”well it’s not that bad.” That’s not an argument. I am not saying you have to despise all religious people, just fundamentalists that do irrational things. However, it is true the less than insane often make apologies for the rather insane, just like you are doing. What does Fromm have to do with this? I don’t care what other people believe and I have no desire to control people’s thoughts. It is impossible. What I would like to see however, is that the religious not try and use their nonsense to control others, which is precisely what they do when they try and interject myths into politics and codify them into law or teach them in science classrooms. That is repellent.
zeroangel
Of course I am, because you are saying that it’s so bad we must be terrified and fight religion at every turn with spittle sprayed vehemence. Children dying in droves from faith healing and theocracies barely thwarted but for the brave few atheists drawing a bright line in the sand.
Read Escape From Freedom.
Compare and contrast those two sentences with…
Allow me to spout a slew of cliches:
The Truth is a lie that hasn’t been found out yet. One man’s myth is another man’s fact. Eye of the beholder.
You claim to not want to control others, yet in the same paragraph you want to prevent other’s “myths and nonsense” into politics and science classrooms.
You frame the argument out of fear.
To twist another cliche: the path to fascism is paved with the fear of false enemies.
FilmLadd:
Not atheists, just sensible people. Where did I say “theocracy was defeated by atheists?” I did not. I was talking about Intelligent Design and such which was shot down in various school districts because people that aren’t insane recognized it as religious (not scientific) in nature.
Strawman.
On October 5th, 2009 at 10:23 am, swede said:
Yes there’s that of course; other allusions as well within his writing. There’s a thin veil of social satire, within which is embedded deeper meanings.
It’s such an abstract work that one can extrapolate many, many facets from it; the buddhist narya, the layers within layers within layers of consciousness as well; several Christian themes. Was a lot of fun to make.
More Strawman.
Wanting to keep religion out of classrooms is as much “control” as Christians wanting to keep Islam out of public schools and wanting to keep Sharia law from becoming real law.
FilmLadd:
You whole argument is, “it’s not THAT bad” and a series of strawmen. I really don’t have to reply (since you aren’t arguing against anything I am saying) but I’d rather not have my statements twisted.
Zeroangel
“People that aren’t insane?” Very emotional. Seriously, what are you so afraid of?
Even if someone taught that Pinnochio’s blue fairy burped out the universe in a public school, I wouldn’t feel personally threatened by it.
On October 5th, 2009 at 10:40 am, zeroangel said:
Come on, your “danger meter” is seriously out of whack.
There are religions that preach conversion by sword, and there are religions that do not. If you can not distinguish between the two, then one wonders what other things you are terrified of – spiders? Cracks in the sidewalk? Flouride?
FilmLadd:
Would you prefer the term, ignorant? I am afraid of nonsense being taught to my child and my tax dollars being used for it. That’s a valid concern.
So, when your kids came home believing this utter nonsense via your taxes, that’s OK?
swede:
For goodness sake. Is it so hard to recognize that Einstein was trying to be political. His statements had the beauty of those in the know being able to recognize him as a Pantheist while others could pretend he wasn’t. If I said I am not an atheist but I subscribe to Dawkins’ ideas about god what would that make me?
FilmLadd:
Who cares what their method is? Via political process or violence, the end result is still kids get taught that Pinnochio’s blue fairy burped out the universe. the fact that you seem to think this is no big deal just shows that you aren’t the type of person that belongs on a school board.
Filmladd:
If kids were being taught that Pi = 3 because a Holy Book says so would that concern you? How ridiculous does it have to get before you admit there is cause for concern?
zero
Clue to zero. Come in. Einstein loathed politics both in science and practice. He said exactly what he believed without compromise or compunction.
And thanks for the analogy. Lucretius was to Greco-Roman thought what Dawkins is to modern western thought. Fringe.
Back to work.
That’s a howler, ZA. Any literalists care to defend it?
Compared to the other utter nonsense they are being taught, yes.
I can correct them about the blue fairy by explaining all of the different theories and expressing the one I believe in. Can you do the same for their self-esteem and diversity training? Can you unteach them what their teacher provide them through his/her GLSEN materials?
How about focusing on what’s important?
swede:
A non-answer and a strawman. Got it. When you get back maybe you can actually address my points.
John:
I’ve been through this argument many times with you. I don’t support any kind of ideology in public schools. Your argument is basically the same as FilmLadd’s, ie, “it’s not that bad” or “well there are worse things going on.” So what? That doesn’t make the blue fairy any less deproable.
*deplorable Sorry.
zeroangel
Violence has a note of finality, wouldn’t you agree? Chopping my head off if I disagree is entirely different than arguing with me.
I think arguing from that stance only proves a peripheral issue – that tax-payer supported government schools are a bad idea – not that the Christian villagers with pitchforks and torches are coming to burn the Republic down.
There is “nonsense,” and then there is someone “forcing me to pay for nonsense.”
Therefore I agree with you – we should indeed abolish all public funded government run school systems.
…and yet Lucretius divined the idea of the atom, which is hardly fringe today. One might say, that it was the ancient beginnings of some really ground breaking ideas.
FilmLadd:
So? I am not arguing that Islam isn’t worse, it is. What’s your point?
Heh. Maybe, however, if it was completely free-market you might have a great many ignorant Americans believing that the Blue fairy burped out the Universe. A healthy balance is probably best.
Not my argument completely, but I could get on board with that to some extent.