The deadly siege at Kamdeysh
This Sunday, keep these troops — and all our men and women serving in uniform — in your thoughts and prayers (via the Washington Post):
Firing rockets and rifles, Taliban militiamen attacked American and Afghan military outposts in a daylong siege on Saturday that killed eight U.S. soldiers and two Afghan security forces in one of the deadliest battles in months, according to U.S. and Afghan officials.
The fighting began early Saturday morning and raged throughout the day in a remote region of eastern Afghanistan in Nurestan province, which borders Pakistan. Staging their attack from steep mountainsides that overlook the outposts in the valley below, on a morning when weather made visibility poor, the Taliban fighters attacked the small American and Afghan bases using rifles, machine guns, grenades and rockets, according to U.S. military officials.
By Sunday morning, when the U.S. military made the attack public in a statement, the area was “largely secure but I do think there is still some activity,” said Capt. Elizabeth Mathias, a U.S. military spokeswoman.
In addition to the eight soldiers killed, several others were injured, Rear Adm. Gregory J. Smith, but he did not specify the number. The American soldiers called in ground reinforcements, along with attack helicopter, airplanes and surveillance drones during the fighting. U.S. forces eventually repelled the attack while inflicting “a significant amount of casualties” on insurgents, Smith said.
Due to the “very challenging terrain,” the insurgents had “pretty effective firing positions,” Smith said. “It was obviously a very, very difficult day.”
…The U.S. military said it was not immediately clear how many insurgents were involved in the fighting. The attack involved Taliban fighters and appeared to be led by a local commander of the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin insurgent group, which is run by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, a former mujaheddin leader during the Soviet war in Afghanistan during the 1980s.
The attack took place in a sparsely populated area of forested mountains near the town of Kamdeysh. The deputy police chief of Nurestan province, Mohammad Farouq, said the insurgents intended to seize control of the Kamdeysh area and that hundreds took part in the fighting. He said more than 20 Afghan soldiers and police have gone missing since the fighting began and may have been taken hostage.
***
Thanks to all of you who gave generously to Lt. Daniel Cnossen’s support fund last week. Lt. Cnossen lost both legs while on a mission in Kandahar and is recovering at NNMC Bethesda — where he recently received both the Purple Heart and Bronze Star for Valor. I heard from LT Brian Ray, his best friend and website administrator, who e-mailed that “directly through your link we were able to raise enough money to move Dan’s mom and sister into an apartment to be near him during his recovery.”
A reminder that you can contribute right here.
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“Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.”
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Categories: Afghanistan
Riehl World View
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Or, ran away…
Seems to me leaving the high ground to your enemies is poor strategy.
My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of these heroes that have made the ultimate sacrifice for our freedoms and liberties. As I read these news accounts, there’s always a number of losses on our side, and I always wonder why the media never reports the number of terrorists that were killed as well. It would be nice if they gave this info, since our goal of being over there is to exterminate these vermin in the first place. At the least it would give some comfort that our losses were not in vain.
http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1050/-Losing-Our-Way-to-Victory.aspx
http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1045/Is-USAID-Funding-the-Taliban.aspx
There is nothing left in Afghanistan to gain.
It’s time to leave.
You can not “Win” with these ROE, this general, and Obama as Commander in Chief.
http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NWQ3Y2U2NjNlYTAyMjI3MTAxZjYyOWZhNTU0Mzg3MzQ=
My prayers are with our soldier’s families and friends. May they RIP.
Eternal thankfulness for men such as these who protect our country against terrorists.
Continued prayers and support for our men and women who serve. Thank you.
I think it’s time to break out the Daisy Cutters.
Whatever happened to Shock and Awe?
They need to be *afraid*.
God Bless our Men and Women in Uniform.
Their bravery and Sacrifice is understood and appreciated by everyone except apparently the White House.
Obama has played golf 10 more times than he has met with Gen. McCrystal.
He has met with the SEIU union head every month, the General in charge of the Afghanistan war….one face to face since Obama issued his “new strategy”
in March.
This is not leadership, it is a crime against our Soldiers:
Obama no Commander and Chief
Obama at the White House March 27th, 2009:
Now Obama says:
Barack Obama
2008 Presidential Campaigning
Obama Considers Strategy Shift in Afghan War
NY Times, Sept. 22, 2009
(
Karzai: Obama Promises To Fight Terror
Nov. 23, 2008
CBSNEWS
Obama on Face The Nation
Sept. 20, 2009
According to Obama, Eliminating the terrorist safe havens,training camps,and ability to launch attacks from Afghanistan and Pakistan is vital to America’s safety.
Obama on Afghanistan/Pakistan during the 2008 Presidential debates
So why would Obama deny our military what it needs to win?
How does not giving our military what they need to win “smart power”?
If McCrystal says they are losing with the current forces,says he needs more,and is denied that.How do you justify leaving our troops in a losing situation?
Special ops and drone attacks will not win the war in Afghanistan/Pakistan.
Obama needs to act like a President,back up his rhetoric about winning the “good war” and how important it is to the security of the US.
democrats have yelled and screamed that Afghanistan did not receive the attention or resources to win.
So far they have followed Bush’s strategy there and sent 20,000 troops.
That’s it!!!
That’s the “resources” denied to win the war.
Nothing but political hacks.
Obama needs to use his prime time media access,527 groups,many groupies in the MSM like Couric,Olberman,Matthews,CNN,MSNBC,CBS
and his fans in hollywood to endorse and support how important it is to win against the jihadist in this region.
These are the measures he has taken for his failed health care,if he is serious about winning the war,why not for Afghanistan.
Obama needs to step up,commit 100% to winning,or bring our troops home and suffer the consequences of surrendering to the jihadist and turning Afghanistan back over to them to launch attacks in the future.
I think it might be time for Obama to make another GREAT sacrifice and put aside, all the important things, like getting something “nice” for his home town and spend a few hours looking at the Afghanistan thing……
Eternal rest grant unto them O Lord,
And let perpetual Light shine upon them.
May their Souls
And the Souls of all the faithful departed
Through the Mercy of God
Rest in peace.
Amen.
My heart aches so bad for the loss any military serving our country. I am so sad we have bho as pres. He does not have a clue how to handle anything.
Please God, comfort the families of these brave hero’s.
L
Unless we are ready to apply ‘Overwhelming Force relentlessly’ we shouldn’t be there at all.
obama thought being commander in chief meant doing a cute salute to the marines on his porch.
God Bless our brave heroes.
I can’t imagine what it’s like for their families to wake up to this news paired with the images of obama’s date night and his jet setting olympic fiasco.
Michelle and any other concerned readers.
There are two groups that I shamelessly support and encourage others to do the same.
They are Fisher House which helps to provide homes for wounded warriors and their families. More information on them can be found at http://www.fisherhouse.org
The other of these groups is Soldier’s Angels. They send care packages to our fighting men and women overseas. More information on them can be found at http://www.soldiersangels.org
There are many ‘wounded warriors’ in need of assistance as well as the men and women on the fronts of the former Global War on Terrorism, now renamed by a grateful Mr. Obama “Overseas Contingency Operations”. They need your support in these times more than ever.
I know the article says it is “Kamdeysh”, but it is Kamdesh and, most likely, in the vicinity of the former PRT at Kamdesh known as Camp Keating.
Yes, the HiG forces train and base their attacks from Pakistan. Yes, they often have the high ground and utilize the rocky, mountainous terrain to their advantage against our troops. Our personnel still fight day in and day out despite all of this, while trying to protect and better the local population. This is very near the same area where Medal of Honor recipient SFC Jared Monti was killed in battle.
If you want to know what that area is like (including shots of Kamdesh), take a look at this Time photoessay done a few months after US forces established the PRT in Kamdesh.
Keep these soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines in your thoughts and prayers and, as posted above, try to support them and their families in any way you can.
Apparently battles like the disaster for the French at Dien Bien Phu, Khe Sanh, and numerous other Fire Bases in Vietnam have been forgotten by our military?
If you place troops in an encampment in a valley with high ground that provides concealment all around it then they are going to get attacked by the enemy and the troops are going to take casualties.
Jeff2161 Said: “Or, ran away…”
I would bet on a 50% possibility of that myself.
I wrote this on another thread this morning…
I feel so scared for our military over there. They know that they have no support from the
CommanderTeleprompter in Chief. They know that victory is not an option for them. They know that our government is being run by anti-American-criminal-thug-Democrats who care nothing for our country and its citizens.I’m so afraid for all those with sons and daughters in the Overseas Contingency who are at risk of being sacrificed by the Obama regime. May God protect and comfort them all… and may that same God recompense justice upon Barry Soetoro (aka Barack Obama), his Democrat enablers, and the sorry, foolish Americans that supports them with their votes… AND every one of us who fail to fight for liberty.
Mr. “Commander-in-Chief”…With all due respect (and I have none), either support the mission or get our troops out of harms way! In other words, do your dam job!!! How many more Mothers will lose their beloved sons or daughters while you fiddle? You make me sick.
Sincerely,
A chattering, Bible clinging, gun toting, radical right wing extremist Patriotic citizen. (You know, one of the majority in this country you choose not to listen to.)
P.S. You are SO going down!!
Whoever thought Obama was going to “bring home the troops” is delusional. Obama, if he gets his way, will leave them there until they all die. They vote (R). Our troops are the last people he wants back here, ever.
No, I am not kidding. Sorry about the bluntness, to any who have family and friends fighting in the M.E., but there’s no way to dance around this. Obama does not respect the troops, care about the troops, or even LIKE the troops. To him and his cadre of radical neo-communists, our troops are nothing but a bunch of rightwingers who love guns and torturing brown people.
Remember how their votes meant so much in Florida in 2000 and in 2004? Oh, that’s right, the Democrat-run polling places tried to have all their absentee votes thrown out on a technicality.
No, Obama doesn’t want our troops to come home. Not ever. It’s not in his, or his Party’s best interest.
-Taq
The day is coming, very soon, when our military will no longer obey this POS POTUS because they will realize he is trying to make them fail in their mission. Bring them home…we need them here to help us get our country back.
Treat them as you would rabid animals.
oderint dum metuant
I regard reckless disregard of our troops — particularly while pimping Chicago for the Olympics, having a “date night,” and meeting regularly with his SEIU pals — as being as close to treason as one can get.
Osama Obama must go, NOW.
If we could get our head out of the sand and develop our own energy sources we could quit that part of the world altogether. Those mountains and valleys have been killing grounds for centuries. We could win, set up a centralized government and leave. And within weeks those mountains and valleys would be killing grounds. Arm the tribes that fear the taliban, hate arabs and we can then leave.Those mountains and valleys and their 7th century inhabitants are not worth any of our fine young people.
Maybe after that we can quit Europe and Asia. America for the Americans seem fair? Let the rest of the world have their wars so they so seem to cherish. Russia, China, the Arabs and all the world smile while our young people fight for a hill WE KNOW ahab will take back the day we leave. Hill 881 for the Marines, Hill 937 for the Army–I left my hip at the Da Nau bridge-sort of like San Francisco without the cable cars.
But if we do have to fight a war fight the damn thing–do it right the first time and the hell with redos, sensitivity, hearts and minds and all that crap. KILL THE ENEMY WHERE THEY ARE AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY.
And then come home.
My heart aches for these families.This just disgusts me.My son is in Iraq right now and it terrifies me having BHO as his Commander in Chief.He loathes and despises the military as well as the country.Maybe in 2010 now that Acorn is under close scrutiny we can boot some of them out.
This day also commerates the anniversary of the Battle of Mogadishu, Somalia, in 1993. Please don’t forget those fallen troops in your prayers as well.
Godspeed, brothers.
Now that ACORN is in trouble, we at least have a fighting chance at a half-way honest election in 2010.
Also, I agree with Arizona…Drill here, drill now. Build nuclear plants. Then seal the borders up tight, send the mullahs, etc. back to the sand box, and take back our country!!
The troops are in my prayers every single day.
From Adm. Mullen, Gen. Petraeus and Gen. McChrystal on down the message was sent and is very clear. More Theater Assets or the Taliban wins. This last battle pretty much sums it up in no uncertain terms.
SecDef Gates is trying to straddle the fence, Obama takes advice from John Kerry the traitor and his staffers are reading up on Vietnam and how the Liberals sabotaged that war. Why? Are they trying to learn more about betraying Allies and filling Arlington up to full capacity with better men that they can ever be?
I want to take this moment to thank every one of that 53% of American Voters that put Obama in office and send a virtual swift size 9 boot to the tail of every one of them.
Carter had his Iran Hostage Crisis, Obama is too busy campaigning to take his responsibilities of office seriously while the Stans are turning into the Alamo. Bush saved Iraq from disaster with the Surge, now Obama will own the Afghanistan Legacy.
Obama’s Presidency is historic. He is forging his own “Man Made Disaster” on the backs of our Military and the Taxpayer that he does not serve well.
While He is Campaigning and Jet Setting Our Outposts are being knocked over and brave Men are dying for a cause greater than themselves or Him.
Thank You 53 Percenters. Now bend over, here comes my size 9 Jump Boot.
Great post, thank you for that information.
Its time to pull out and leave the cromags to fight with each other. Does anyone remember when Iraq and Iran were at war? They were too busy to focus on killing Americans and Europeans. We should leave and respond with nukes when we are attacked again. You don’t see too many Japanese terrorists targeting Americans. There is a reason for that.
More Big Bombs, less boots on the ground? Those “boots” are our people. As with Sherman’s March we need ahab to howl–the survivors anyway. The Taliban? They can get 10,000 replacements tomorrow–so far they really do not know fear. So make this a teachable moment for them. Three days and nights of napalm and HE and the survivors will know fear.
If we need more B-52 send them over. Then come home.
And now it is 10 dead.
Well said, old trooper!
It’s going to take overwhelming teaparties in support of fighting and winning the war in Afghanistan for our president to finally make a proper decision. Time to make the signs and hit the streets, or he’ll leave us with a more radicalized Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. This is not a difficult decision, either.
I hope I am not the only one who is furious about our “rush, rush, rush…hurry, hurry, hurry” administration, who, when American lives are on the line, rather than act decisively, opt to “take time, and have ‘careful‘ deliberation” on whether or not to send more troops to Afganistan.
Meanwhile, back here in party town, the narcissistic and egomaniacal incompetent clown we call the President, chooses to spent the people’s money wisely.
He goes on forays to Denmark to pump his “wonderful me” creditials…
…travels by jet to curry favor with monied political supporters…
…has weekly booze parties with his homeboys and girls…
…and travels to give aid and comfort for re-election efforts, to help ethically chanllenged
lawmakerslawbreakers like Chirs Dodd……while our embattled troops, needing support, burn.
If I recall, another leader in history past, also ignored the will of the people and his military leaders, and belittled the Christians. He ignored the barbarians at the gate. He threw lavish parties that were perversely decadent, and legend has it that he “fiddled” while Rome burned.
The Incompetent In Chief should perhaps ponder another name change. This time, to one that better befits his aura…
O-NERO.
*My thoughts and prayers continue to go out to those in theater, and their loved ones back home; I support as I can through MAF.
*As I have said so many times before, you cannot build a nation out of a sandbox; Put the politics aside and either go in with overwhelming force, or get out; We are dealing with a 7th century invented religion of death cult savages, and we either deal with them now, once and for all, or out comes the big stick down the road!
It’s been replaced by smack and smirk.
Don’t rule out many of them may have been infiltrators. That is not uncommon in the middle east. You will be able to tell by which ones live to tell the tale.
OldTrooper, I’ll go a bit further; Anyone who voted for this empty suit DURING A TIME OF WAR, whether you agree with it or not, you have blood on your hands. Bush should have just pulled us all out after the election stating “I will not be responsible for setting these men and women up for failure under this weak-kneed appeaser.” That would have been classic. Impractical, I know but it would have saved lives.
Why anyone would want a Democrat in the White House during a time when courage is required is beyond me.
This administration is saving that for the taxpayers. Shock over how much of your liberty they can curtail and awe over the mounting debt.
“Sunday, bloody Sunday…”
I’ve read Sunday’s (10/4/09) hard copy of the Washington Post and there is more to be learned. The front page article by Greg Jaffe provides more insight into the battle at Wanat.
From that article it appears the troops stationed there were set up for failure. They were to be provided with four days of water, and weren’t. They were to be provided with construction equipment to build proper defenses but weren’t. There were two predators in the area but one was withdrawn.
The Company Commander spoke to his father, a retired Senior officer, and the Son couldn’t explain to his retired Colonel Father what was going on.
Read the article and you may very well come away with the thought that it isn’t about the number of troops, but about how they are deployed and the support they are given.
Only one question – Will the current Administration be allowed seven years to ‘win’ the war in Afghanistan?
By who??? Who did this to them???
Two Apache’s dedicated to every FOB would solve this problem. I also do not understand why we do not have cameras on every route our troops follow. Most cities here in the US record our every movement-why not set them up in Afghanistan?
I can see how just pulling out cold can bite us back. If falls Afghanistan to these fantics, so sooner shall Pakistan follow, nukes and all.
Again I ask, without being flippant, the population with the most to lose if the Taliban succeeds are all the women and girls who will be cast down in a subservient uneducated sex-pet status. Again, where the national and international womens’ organizations to teach these Afghan women what freedoms they haven’t yet tasted but will be snatched away by the caveman religious mentality of Taliban zealots? If all these women had a clue what western-style freedoms they’d be missing, the Taliban would be hard pressed to call anywhere home — certainly not with the wives and sisters and daughters they routinely scold and beat back into line, and the job of our people in uniform would be so much less hazardous.
I can’t hear you N.O.W.!
James Greenidge
Queens, NY
Here are some points to ponder. Can you imagine this:
Afghanistan is nothing more than another Iwo Jima, only over 30,000 times as large.
About the size of the U.S. State of Texas, most of Afghanistan is a rugged, inhospitable mountainous landscape riddled with caves and virtually inaccessible hiding places for hostile “insurgents”.
Afghanistan has no seaport access. All military manpower and material has to be flown in.
Iwo Jima was an 8 square mile island and we attacked it from the sea with 27,000 Marines. Afghanistan is a 31,473 square mile nation that does not even have a seacoast.
20,000 Russian troops were killed in Afghanistan before Russia gave up and pulled out.
Considering all of this, how can our president even dream of wiping out the Taliban and Al Qaeda with the pitifully small force we have there now and then rebuild Afghanistan (while at the same time policing it) to suit whatever the goal is for it’s stone-age population? Of course the answer to this is that our president does not comprehend the magnitude of this war and how it can escalate out of control so easily. Our president seems to be ignorant of the concept of logistics and what a herculean task it can be. People “move the earth” for Obama every time he travels. While he sits nestled in the warm cocoon of Air Force One, drinking hot cocoa and waxing eloquent about himself to his adoring staff, he does not comprehend or even care about the efforts required to move airplanes and equipment, including limosines, helocopters, even spare Boeing 747′s and hundreds of personnel to wherever he is going and back again. He does not care because it is all for him.
When it comes to comprehending the logistics of the Afghanistan War, Obama seems unconcerned, unconcerned enough to not even consult the General he placed in charge on a regular basis. I know, as a veteran, that we do not like to be called “quitters” and retreat is not an effective way to win wars. But, we have not fought a war since 1945 that was not limited by politicians. If we cannot fight the fight needed to win, we should get the hell out and quit killing our troops by restricting their method of battle. We were using flame throwers to burn Japanese out of their caves on Iwo Jima. Can you even imagine how Obama would react if he were told that we were going to use flame throwers to burn insurgents out of their caves? I am surprised that Obama has not ordered that ammunition be kept under lock and key and issued to our troops on a need-to-use basis restricted to one bullet at a time. This administration will not even let us question pow’s or suspected terrorists “too harshly”. So, our troops are waiting in their foxholes, waiting for Obama to make up his mind, waiting while he jets around the country and the world making speeches, waiting while our president is supposedly rethinking his great strategy, waiting while they get picked off, one, by two, by three or more, waiting for their commander in chief to make up his mind.
This is from the UK Times online report linked by Drudge:
As SpeakEasy noted, there may be infiltrators in the ranks of Afghans; we heard of similar events in Iraq.
It’s not a good situation at all, on top of which we have the laissez faire behavior of the supposed C-in-C.
The commander on the ground needs to stand up for his troops and go public with his desparation, then resign. Something has to wake up this administration! As for not questioning the captives “to harshly”, they need to take no prisoners. Problem solved. If they had been doing that all along, we wouldn’t have the problem of Gitmo, or of Britain releasing 12 dangerous terrorists back into the population with the promise to “keep track of them”.
I know we will be less safe if we leave Afghanistan, but I am starting to feel like this war can’t be won, at least under the liberals stupidity. So maybe it is time to bring our troops home and put them in charge of homeland security!!
James, I know you’re not trying to be flippant with that term, but I have to emphasize that it will be far, far worse than being a “sex-pet” for women and girls if the Taliban regain control.
Under them women are not allowed the most rudimentary education, they are not allowed to work outside the home – and it doesn’t matter if the woman is a widow with children to support. The family can starve for all the Taliban care – and many did starve when they were in control before. So much for the Koran’s call for charity.
And to defy the Taliban…. Anyone else remember the horrible images of women being executed, shot in cold blood in the stadium that used to be used for soccer games? That’s what will happen if the Taliban are ever allowed to regain power, whether in Afghanistan or elsewhere.
The Taliban are worse than animals. I wouldn’t wish them on my worst enemy.
BTW James those women do know what freedoms they missed under the Taliban. It was women who, knowing that the Taliban had threatened them with death if they dared to vote in the first free election, went through the ritual bating and prayers for the dead the morning of the election, then walked for hours to get to the polling places, and in at least one incident, stood firm even as a bomb was set of near where they waited in line to vote.
And the purple stained fingers marked each and every one of those women as targets for the Taliban. A lot of women and girls have died, even since the Taliban were removed from power because the Taliban still bomb girls’ schools and target women who dare to step outside the “traditional” role of subservient female.
They know. Some are too afraid; some are afraid and they still defy the Taliban. I doubt we’d find many men or women in this country of ease and entitlements who would stand so firmly in the face of death as the women of Afghanistan.
Well said, WS. You do have a way with words!
ahhh…Obama, maybe.
I wonder if this President feels any more responsibility for American casualties that occur while he sits on his hands for political reasons and from his liberal advisers same strategy that would have failed in the other war they loved to hate?
He’s no leader, he is nothing more than a shyster, fast talking community organizer and nothing more.
He acts like an 8th grader than just won the class presidency and now he’s the cock of the walk…immature, self-centered, narcissist.
I keep thinking back to when he said Air Force One was pretty cool…with that shi%-eating grin on his face. We know how cool it is…he can’t seem to stop taking joy rides in it. I am really looking forward to him being taken down a few pegs and getting his “just rewards” for trying to destroy America.
And he is the Commander in Chief. God help the men in Afganistan. This event should make it a no brainer. Get your generals the personnel and resources they need or get our troops out of there. Since tha later would be a victory for the Taliban and empower Al Quada, give them what they need. NOW!
Didn’t W stop playing golf because somebody (media?) questioned whether it was appropriate for him to be “playing” while troops were in harm’s way?
happyscrapper, the Washington Post article* that zyzzyg mentions isn’t about the same incident that MM started this thread about; the incident zyzzyg cites occurred back in July. Here’s the pertinent portion as per zyzzyg’s post:
*note that the Post requires a “free” sign-up to read the article; if you don’t want to deal with the potential spam, try a login from BugMeNot.
Reading the news account, some place names came to mind: Pleiku, Dak To, Khe San.
Or for those more familiar with Hollywood history than the real thing, think “The Green Berets,” “Platoon Leader” and “The Siege of Firebase Gloria.”
The common theme: American troops holding on to forward outposts, near which the enemy can stage attacks in relative sanctuary (save for the odd bombing raid) from ostensibly “neutral” territory that is anything but.
Another theme: A hopelessly corrupt and increasingly unpopular host government, with a host military that generally lacks fire discipline, sees “training” as a means primarily of avoiding the enemy, and is of uneven loyalty; topped off with lukewarm allies all too eager to give up and go home before the job is done.
I’m not sure if our strategy is to replay what we were doing in the Highlands from 1966-1969, but it sure looks like it. Americans digging into “Indian Country” and basically serving as statiorary bait for enemy attacks may be necessary to contest the hinterlands in which the enemy breeds like mosquitos, but I doubt whether this administration, this Congress, or indeed ultimately the American People will have the stomach for the casualties that inevitably ensue from such an attrition-based approach.
Even if we get more troops in theater, to win means taking the offensive to deny the enemy their border sanctuaries. But the terrain along the Afghan-Pakistan border is so rugged that it could easily swallow the entire US Army.
I do not envy the position of our forces in Afghanistan. Winning there may not be impossible, but I have no clear idea of how they’re going to pull it off given how the odds are already stacked against success and are worsening.
Those kids are in a fight now! May God bless and protect them!
The Taliban sees that this President is a limp dick fool! I feel for what our military is going to face. Like Regulus very correctly pointed out, a determined enemy and hapless leadership is not good for our side. Someone somewhere needs to wise up real damned soon!!
Deja Vu, all over again for those of us who were in it 40 years ago.
The honor guard should, ‘accidentally’ trip him when he boards the helicopter at the White House.
I hope we killed a whole heck of a lot of those b*st*rds
I’ve read a lot of commentary by arm chair generals here. Let me try to explain a few things. First the terrain, the base that I believe that was attacked used to be FOB Keating, it sits in an area above the village of Kamdesh where its original purpose was to protect that village. Before the first time it was abandoned, it was found that the village was generally supportive of the Taliban, or more particularly the Hezb-e-islami Gulbuddin a group led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. He is a self serving and power hungry but a brilliant tactician. He became part of the alliance that kicked out the Taliban but during the battle of Kandahar allowed Sheikh Muhammed Omar safe passage through his lines. Hekmatyar’s troops in the area are young men of the area who by threat or persuasion are supported by people in villages like Kamdesh despite what the village elders may wish. This is somewhat atypical of Afghanistan where tribal and clan loyalties usually run deep. But people like Hekmatyar are very capable of manipulating people out of their traditional ways. FOB and later PRT Keating were established to try to keep a watch on the goings on at Kamdesh and to attempt to wrest it from Taliban control. The garrisons of these outposts are necessarily small because despite the total number of NATO forces, the Americans aided by a small British and Canadian contingent are the only forces that will actually fight. The mountains overlooking PRT Keating are well over 10,000 feet in height making it extremely difficult (try breathing or exerting yourself at that height for more than a few seconds) to operate near for any length of time near even the strategic crest. Also, the altitude is perilously close to the maximum ceiling for even the CH-47 Chinook. Re-supply is usually accomplished by helicopter as the road to Kamdesh, nicknamed ‘Ambush Alley’ is an unimproved set of ruts in the terrain offering good cover and concealment to Taliban forces along the way.
One reader suggested having two Apache helicopters available to these bases. The problem lies in where do you base these helicopters so that they can reach a number of bases. We have a total of 500 AH64D Apache helicopters (the only model with the power to carry any respectable payload in Afghanistan) in the entire US Military Most of them are based near the larger FOBs and at Bagram and Kandahar. Some are tasked to support USMC operations in the South. Others are providing support for US Army operations in areas other than Nuristan. Almost none are tasked to Special Operations units.
The battle of Kamdesh was pretty bad with the men there probably outnumbered 20-1. However, don’t believe for a moment that there wasn’t a decent accounting given by the men there who fought back with what they had and called in supporting arms which probably evened the odds. When the day was over, the Taliban and Mr. Hekmatyar were probably struck a blow they didn’t count on. This battle may also have provided some intelligence on not only enemy capabilities in the area but also how deeply the Afghan security forces have been infiltrated. In the final analysis a loss of 10 good men while a nasty price is only truly a loss if their deaths are wasted by a government that doesn’t understand that we need to have hundreds more such bases and thousands of men to man them in order to take back a country side where the Taliban are being squeezed slowly by a Pakistani army on one side of the border and the US on the other. With suitable resolve and the willingness to fight we can do to the Taliban what was done to the Viet Cong and was about to happen to the NVA just before we gave up and took our ‘toys’ with us. You know, “Peace with Honor” and Teddy Kennedy’s “Let’s bring our boys home.” where he would later deny even money to help South Vietnam continue to fight for its very survival which led to ‘Killing Fields’ and ‘Reunification Camps’ where tens of thousands died. Do we want that blood on our hands as well as that of the Soldiers and Marines lives wasted?
Pray, pray, pray. This is personal…my nephew is there. I’m sure you all have someone you know and love in the military!! I agree with whoever said anyone running for POTUS should be required to serve in the military for a period of time, if physically able. Obama would have never become POTUS. Of course, if they had bothered to vet him, he never would have become POTUS either. At least he is being vetted now, and hopefully will be fired!!
The Soldiers and Marines lives are never wasted, no matter what the outcome of this war! They served their country with honor and courage. Who knows what impact each of those lives had? I believe that God has a plan for each and every one of them and their work is not in vain.
Thanks for your insight, we don’t get this intel from any other sources. Hell, the CIA probably is in the dark compared to your knowledge. Thanks !
Just to add to your notes about the basing of helicopters, weather near Naray and points north (Gowardesh, Kamdesh, the various OP’s, etc) often prevents even basic resupply missions via helicopter. You can’t count on helicopter support most of the time due to weather, let alone the distance these helicopters need to cover to get that far north from their established bases. Factor in the infrastructure required to base these assets north of J-Bad and it isn’t something that can be easily done.
While the attacks tend to diminish when the mountain passes are covered in snow, it truly is the frontier up there and a lot of people don’t realize just how isolated our personnel are.
#817259
Unfortunately the entire country is high ground. I wondered too how an enemy could get entrenched above a fire base but not being on the ground I will not second guess.
Our guys are the best in the World. The scum Taliban will pay for this in spades as long as the White House doesn’t get in their way.
On October 4th, 2009 at 7:18 pm, happyscrapper said: in post #817480
On an emotional basis, I fully agree with you. On a practical basis, I can’t.
As you’ll hear the troops say when they talk about this war, they believe in the mission. They’ve placed their very young and promising lives at stake for the mission. In part they feel it is their duty as citizens but more as a mission to keep those at home safe. They believe that if we can keep the Taliban out of Afghanistan, we can at least rest assured that our attackers will not come from a safe haven there. Those among the Senior NCOs who’ve been around will in their musings wonder sometimes if it will be Somalia or the horn of Africa (Yemen, Aden, Muscat, Oman) that will be the grounds where the next attack comes from. Among the officers the worry will be that we get pulled back to CONUS and are trying to defend against an amorphous, asymetric attack that wargame after wargame has proven is almost never the attack you prepared to defend against. They wonder why no one at home among the ‘Powers That Be’ whether in the five sided funny farm, the halls of Congress or 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue realize that only by staying on the offensive, by chosing a time and place to engage and having the enemy forced to defend ground they believe is ‘vital’ can we succeed in preventing another 9-11-01. Even now we’re seeing an uptick in terrorist activity at home and we haven’t quite relinquished the field yet.
Ask any Soldier, they’ll tell you ‘It’s the Mission! (expletives and pejoratives omitted)’
Outstanding post, thank you!
On October 4th, 2009 at 7:49 pm, PBoilermaker said: in post #817483
You said it! I can remember what it was like in Paktia during OEF I and Konar during OEF IV. The weather, the altitude all combine to make it difficult. In the winter fog, ice, and storms. In the summer heat that means the density altitude changes payloads and operational ceilings. All kinds of wonderfulness. Not the least of which all resupply comes by air.
Obamass,s winter campaign will be a full complement of Swiffer Sweepers and dust mops for all the troops. Your Commander in Pouf is on top of things! This Christmas a Muslim under every tree is the goal! Winning is not progressive you donks!
Staging their attack from steep mountainsides that overlook the outposts in the valley below, on a morning when weather made visibility poor, the Taliban fighters attacked the small American and Afghan bases using rifles, machine guns, grenades and rockets,
Considering the size of this battle, I wonder if the Taliban is trying to score as many victories as they can while the dumb ass in the White House tries to make up his mind.
The media keep talking about his “war council”…as if he trying to run this war by committee, not to mention them whining about the military openly offering their opinions on what they need.
With Bush, the media would have been clamoring for a general to publicly offer their opinion, and the left in Congress would be demanding that general come before them for hearings….like Shinseki.
Nice little dig at the military in the above article…how JFK lost confidence in his generals after the Bay of Pigs. It was JFK himself who screwed up the Bay of Pigs operation. A book by Grayston Lynch who commanded part of that operation spells out how JFK screwed it up.
On October 4th, 2009 at 8:58 pm, BruceB said: in Post #817516
These are not 800′ tall ‘mountains’ in Vietnam. This is the Hindu Kush at 10,000+ feet. They average taller than the Rocky Mountains. The strategic crests of these mountains is above where helicopters can go to resupply the garrison. While I wouldn’t go so far as to say it can’t be done. But, bringing any artillery piece larger than an 122mm mortar with too few rounds to be decisive doesn’t happen in these battles. Mostly its AK’s lots of RPGs, a few light machineguns like the RPK and a sprinkling of light (60mm – 82mm) mortars with a dozen or so shells for each. There’d also be a couple of Moisin Nagant or Dragunov sniper rifles with a couple of good marksmen behind them.
The fact is that the PRT (Provincial Reconstruction Team) at Kamdesh had an overwatch of the village but could not command the heights. If we had more troops (probably more than we can sustain given our lack of Strategic Airlift) an OP or two could have been placed on the strategic crest of one of the hills with a radio and a sniper team. But, we don’t have enough troops to do that, nor the ability to rapidly bring in support to these isolated outposts that are an absolute necessity to countering the Taliban in the area. This has become more critical in the past few weeks as Pakistani troops are pushing the Taliban out of the tribal areas of Pakistan and back into Afghanistan. Had Mr. Obama acted decisively, Gen. McChrystal might have had sufficient forces to concentrate on the areas that are being infiltrated and produce more decisive results. As it is, an undermanned outpost must wait to be attacked, call in pre-arranged supporting fire and hope that the garrison survives. It’s a bit like some of the smaller outposts in the Indian Wars. You hope the Cavalry gets their in the nick of time or you’re SOL.
They HAVE made it clear, and the media suddenly doesn’t like military brass who speak their minds publicly.
Meanwhile the Community Agitator takes Meanchelle for a date.
Aw….how nice.
That was a “you got to be $h!tt!n me” moment for me too. SEVERAL top military commanders/brass tell this moron what they need, but they are too busy reading up on how the left screwed up Vietnam.
Are there any sane adults left in Washington?
The nitwits who voted for him were only concerned with what goodies they personally were going to get. They could care less about the person next to them.
Remember the woman who thought BO was going to fill her gas tank?
I suspect good old Barry Soetero is in a bind. He obviously doesn’t believe in defending America. He obviously hates the military. But he doesn’t want to “lose” Afghanistan. But he hates the thought of America winning!
I ****|***** I
HATE **|** LOVE
America *|* ME
And I ***|*** And I
Don’t want *|* Don’t want
America to *|* ME to
Win a War! *|* Lose a War!
You can imagine the calls he has to take from Soros these days.
reply to maceammon #817324 who said
of course that’s the classic tactic. remember the bad guys have no armor or air support. they have to be drawn into a position where they think they have an advantage before they think a fight works in their favor. they wanted to overun the base and they weren’t even close to that. khe sanh was not overun. westmoreland wanted the nva to stage a major attack on what looked like a weak base. they did. and then b52′s bombed them to bits. they withdrew. a very strong force with armor and air support can hold any position against an enemy that has no armor or air. the problem is getting the bad guys to fight. and when they fight they get smashed.
A million or so for the Tea Party Rally but they had to go home after a day or so. On the odd week-end a few tourist show up but they too have adult things to do and can not hang around.
But some analysts fear Obama and company will choose the worst of both choices–giving the generals part of what they want and calling it a compromise: too many troops to be mere counter insurgency and too few to really root out the Taliban. That would be the Harry Truman solution.
My personal fear is we try to stabilize the central government by disarming what we call the local militias-the tribes. That would start a war we do not want but I believe Obama and company could well start.
Thanks for providing your excellent insight into the situation in Afghanistan. Good points! I was on some of those hills in Vietnam, and remember the problems with support and resupply. I can’t imagine the problems with supplying, as well as bringing troops in to re-enforce and rescue bases at the altitudes and distances in Afghanistan.
I pray that eventually the civilian leadership will get their heads out of the sand and begin to take the advice of the military commanders on the ground there.
God bless, and thanks for you courage and commitment.
.
Thanks for the heads up. I enjoy it when I learn something.
Great points here, and add to that you shouldn’t ever conduct a war based on its “popularity”.
James Greenidge
Queens NY
I just do not believe that Barrack Hussein Obama gives a darn about our troops, our nation, or our Constitution.
He appears to be anti-Defense, anti-Strong, anti-Constitution, anti-Liberty, anti-Military, and anti-Traditional USA Patriotism.
This is evidenced in his worlds, actions, and associations from his childhood till the president.
His approach to supporting our troops in Afghanistan and of TRULY fighting wars to win is similar to his approach to abortion, as he stated that the time at which a baby inside the womb is deserving of rights is “beyond [his} pay grade.”
In other words, he doesn’t care and won’t support them.
His attempt to make Afghanistan into the War we must be fighting appears to have been a ploy to get elected, as he successfully hid the fact that he has no spine, hates the military, and has disdain for US power and success, including in the war against Islamofascist anti-US Jihad.
I had already grieved for the soldiers and their families when I heard about it on tv.
So when I read this article on Michelle’s blog my first thought was, “Those kids died trying to defend an outpost in a valley surrounded by mountains? What kind of fool put them there?”
Thanks for your information about the height of those mountains, ssnark. I had no idea. However, I still don’t understand why it was necessary to place an outpost there at all.
The Commanders on the ground who ordered them to take up positions there and did not provide and ensure the promised support was available.
A portion of the article I was referencing was cut and psated by Wayfaring Stranger in post #817463. A link was also provided.
No. Because if they don’t pull their head out of thier A$$es in the next year it will be lost. Since obama took command, the entire country has been sliding into chaos.
Thats what happens when you get a mission but not enough resources to complete it.
***
Real “high ground” doesn’t exist any more. It disappeared during WW2 when fighter-bombers with good .50 cal strafing and napalm bombing capabilities came on the scene. The better WW2 prop jobs called SANDIES did cheap and effective jobs on ground targets during the Vietnam War.
***
A lot more refined Air to Ground aircraft have appeared since then. The Specter type gunships, helicopters with hellfire missiles, the A10 Warthog aircraft, Army MRLS and ATACAMS systems, B-52′s with GPS guided bombs, etc. can be put “on call” to handle these problems.
***
It’s criminal that an American Army or Marine unit can’t “get on the horn” and have the so called “high ground” disappear in a blaze of glory 10 minutes after the radio call. Vietnam is a heavily forested country–Afghanistan looks a lot like my El Paso, Texas almost bare mountainside areas. There are not a lot of places to hide. Set them up and knock them down with the high tech weapons we have now. Or declare up front that the place isn’t worth the cost and pull out.
***
The real failure is a President Obama (PBUH) and Defense Department / high level military leadership problem. Remember–10 dead enemy (and their supporters / enablers) are a lot better than one dead or wounded American Soldier.
***
John Bibb
***
On October 5th, 2009 at 9:38 am, zyzzyg said: in post #817639
The WaPo post that is in post #817463 that you reference is about the battle of Wanat that occurred on 13 July 2008. Not the battle of Kamdesh that occurred just a few days ago. While the circumstances are similar, they are not identical. Wanat is in the same province and but Wanat is in the Waygal or Waygul district and not the Kamdesh district. The primary differences are these:
1. The infantry platoon at Wanat was trying to construct a Combat Outpost (COP) near Wanat. The Afghan Contractor (a legacy of failed Rumsfeld policies) who was supposed to build the field fortifications failed to show up. At Kamdesh, the Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) was using the former FOB Keating which was a prepared defensive position that had been designed as a support base for other outposts (think 48 Soldiers rattling around in a base built for a Company (about 144 men about 1/2 to 2/3rds of whom would have been in the FOB at any given time) As opposed to Wanat where the platoon was trying to build a COP for itself.
2. A Provincial Reconstruction Team is composed of from 40-60 persons each team will vary slightly depending on location composed of civil affairs soldiers trained in medicine, psychology, engineering, and law as well as Special Forces and regular Army units, the teams will always maintain a “robust” capacity to defend themselves as they are being purposely deployed in hostile territory. For example, Gardez, as a semi-permissive environment, has a heavy weapons platoon from Task Force 82. Although military-led, PRTs have incorporated resident USAID and U.S. Department of State officers and in at least one case a US Department of Agriculture officer. Wanat was defended by an Infantry platoon of the 173rd Airborne Regiment.
3. The mission of the PRT is primarily one of “winning hearts and minds”. An infantry platoon is primarily tasked with security.
4. While the PRT can defend itself, it can only do so much and to be honest I wonder if someone dropped the ball on the Intelligence side or were they being used as ‘bait’ to bring a large force into contact so that they could be engaged and destroyed.
As to what they were doing up there. They were executing the strategy that Mr. Obama approved of when he had his only meeting with Gen. McChrystal until the last two weeks in March of this year. What has changed from then to now is that the Pakistani Army has been on the offensive forcing the Taliban out of what had previously been sanctuaries in Pakistan back across the border into Afghanistan. It is this change in the status of the enemy forces that has prompted Gen. McChrystal to ask for additional troops in order to try to engage and destroy an enemy that is now on the move and in force.
It is very likely that I will have a son deploying to Afghanistan. I’ve tried to give him the benefit of my experiences but I will still worry. I have friends there who are like my brothers and I worry for them as well. Primarily I worry that the US government will fail them as it did another generation and lack the will and the resolve to eliminate the threat posed by Afghanistan, a place I’ve learned to love and hate.
I made dinner tonight for a friend of my daughter’s who is home on leave from Wardak province Afghanistan. He used to work at Chuckie Cheeses with her back when they were 16 years old. He is much older than that now, more reserved but with a stronger voice.
He told us of the IEDs being placed on the only road into and out of his AO. We have UAVs flying most nights and have watched as those IED’s were planted but have been told to hold off taking out the lowlifes planting them. They go in the next day and get the EOD folks to detonate them. The next night there is another crew planting more, probably the same vermin. He said that every day they get hit with an IED on that road. And the IEDs are getting bigger and more potent.
My son-in-law is a Marine who will deploy to Afghanistan probably in April of next year. He and his friends are the finest young people I know. They have chosen a path that will put them in harms way.
I pray they are kept safe.
I put together a package for my daughter’s friend that consisted of disposable razors, shaving cream/aftershave, hand disinfectant, chapstick, Visine,a couple rolls of TP, Twinkies, Ho Ho’s and such, and a bunch of magazines and the local Sunday paper. (Magazines for soldiers are about cars, trucks, motorcycles, guns hunting and computers. Skip the Time and Newsweek rags…) There was also some candy (Skittles and Werthers). Apparently it went over pretty well, especially the Twinkies and Little Debbie snacks. Who knew?
Take some time out of your day, put something together like this and send it to a soldier. A bit of home goes a long way.
Load up Google Earth and ‘fly’ over the valleys and mountain of Afghanistan. You’ll get a sense of the land and environment our sons and daughters are living in. We’re all Americans and they are our family.
Keep them in your thoughts and prayers every day.