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Comments

1. #1
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:45 pm, tarpon said:

   Hey a trillion here, a trillion there, whats wrong with that?

   Isn’t the open question WHY?

2. #2
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:45 pm, shooter said:

   Will they POST it?

   Can we read the ‘bill’?

   We want our 72 hours!, senators and obama White House, seriously.

3. #3
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:46 pm, txvet2 said:

   Unfortunately, their scoring assumes euthanasia for anyone over 65 who enters a hospital for any reason.

4. #4
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:49 pm, Wethal said:

   The Congressional Budget Office has estimated that the Finance Committee’s health care legislation would reduce the federal deficit by $81 billion over 10 years.

   The CBO said the bill’s cost of $829 billion would be financed by taxes and savings, and that it would cover 29 million uninsured.

   Will have more, but the bottom line is that this is good news for the Democrats because they now have a bill that they can point to that, according to the official scorekeeper, is deficit neutral and costs under $900 billion. The question is what happens when this gets merged with the more liberal and costly Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee bill.

   Amspecblog.

   Some of those taxes are highly controversial; unions oppose the taxes on gold-plated health insurance.

   “Savings”? By cutting Medicare, which will go over well with elderly voters…

5. #5
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:51 pm, AlohaGuy said:

   railroad the bill through the Senate using a very unusual closed door procedure to craft the bill with no input from the American people.

   More business as usual.

6. #6
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:51 pm, Red State Skeptic said:

   A little perspective? Americans spend $2 trillion on health care every year.

7. #7
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:52 pm, Leatherneck said:

   At what point does Inflation destroy the dollar, and a North American Union must be born?

   The government is being run by children who have sold out to special interests.

   Vote them out in 2010, and 2012.

8. #8
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:52 pm, bansharia said:

   surely there is one American in DC left that will toss the bill up on the net for us to take a looksie.

9. #9
   On October 7th, 2009 at 4:54 pm, Dexter Alarius said:

   But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

   Re-elect No One 2010!

10. #10
    On October 7th, 2009 at 4:54 pm, ThunderHawkk said:

    $829 billion for ten years, yeah SURE! It’s more like $829 billion for maybe 2 years!

    Plus, euthanasia thrown in for free!

    What a load of $&(#!

    Damn Democrats!

11. #11
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:03 pm, Flyoverman said:

    On October 7th, 2009 at 4:51 pm, Red State Skeptic said:

    A little perspective? Americans spend $2 trillion on health care every year.

    $2 trillion of private healthcare compared to $2 trillion of government healthcare will be like comparing a Lexus to a Yugo.

    Oh boy!

    Wait till your mother needs a procedure, you have the money to pay for it in full and some Federal “death panel” rules she does not merit the procedure.

    Watch R&D die.

12. #12
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:07 pm, DanME said:

    So based on the HISTORY of other federal programs, like social security, what multiplication factor do we have to use to get to the real 10 year cost? Is it 3, or 5, 10 ? We know it’s greater than ONE.

    This is the CBO score after Obama leaned on the director.

    We need a full court press to stop this – shut down the Capitol Hill switchboard.

13. #13
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:14 pm, joannmandolin said:

    Don’t euthan-AZE me bro!

14. #14
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:14 pm, graysonret said:

    Not only are my patients to get less care, but they may not be able to travel to get the care, after the government grabs all the money. Oh, it won’t be a tax you can see on your diminished paycheck; it will be one of those “sneaky” taxes again, on groceries, products and whatever else they can think would work. They’ll go after those “rich” corporations and companies, who, naturally, pass all the tax off on the ignorant consumer. I pity those people in California, that are already strapped paying taxes. Be prepared for a real slap. You can bet some medical equipment won’t be covered, like powerchairs. Many kids use them to get around…school, etc.. Well, they won’t be considered tax-payers, so the heck with them. After the Rangel debaucle, I am finally convinced that we are dealing with an illegal government. They ignore the Constitution, they swore (by God) to uphold and they hold the public in such contempt, they willfully show off their corruption.

15. #15
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:17 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    I really doubt that it will pass. Congressmen don’t run just to serve two years. They want to be re-elected. Voting for this could be fatal. I expect lots of “present” votes.

16. #16
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:17 pm, ThunderHawkk said:

    He’s right, Red State Septic – Odumbo, by way of the federal government, is going to kill your mother someday, because they refuse to approve her treatment! I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not! Death is coming via the federal government!

17. #17
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:22 pm, Hangfire said:

    Where is my old “National Lampoon’s Lemmings 8-track. It sure seems like prophecy now, and not parody.

    “We owe it to the world to off ourselves……”

18. #18
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:25 pm, Hangfire said:

    The health care system couldn’t save Obama’s mother or grandmother.

    Now, we wants to take away our mothers and grandmothers…….

19. #19
    On October 7th, 2009 at 5:34 pm, NJ-Aviator said:

    Deficit Neutral?

    $829 show me again which piggy bank has that $829 billion in it waiting to be spent?

    Deficit neutral to Dems means…

    “We don’t have the money, but we’ll tax the crap out of the public. After all… who really gives a sh– about their situation. They’ll keep voting for us no matter what we do.”

20. #20
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:04 pm, WarEagle82 said:

    Let’s do the math. $82 billion a year to cover 29 million people comes out to $2,800 per person.

    It costs my company about $10,800 to insure me and my family or $2,160 a person per year.

    The government is already 25% more expensive than a good private sector plan.

    Of course, we know that the actual costs will be several times larger than the initial projection. And we know they will pad the rolls at every turn. And we know Medicare and Medicaid are rife with corruption.

    These people are obviously heavily involved with the “medical marijuana” services in their home states.

    This is insanity. We are going to have to run TEA Parties all Autumn long!

21. #21
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:04 pm, no2pcbs1 said:

    zero and the rest of the comedy act known as the administration add new meaning to the word incompetence.

22. #22
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:07 pm, Mister P said:

    I don’t care if its 829 dollars. The government has no business telling me what health procedures I can or can not have or knowing what will happen MUST HAVE.

    Now I want each republican to pledge that given the chance (with control of the house, senate and presidency) in 2012 he/she will eliminate this boondoogle before it even takes effect.

23. #23
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:10 pm, Mister P said:

    Of course the DEATH PANEL will save 500 Billion.

24. #24
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:18 pm, tarpon said:

    Since the plan doesn’t start until after Obamaa is reelected in 2012, it starts in 2013 … The tab is really $829(without interest) billion over 7 years. And if you look at the CBO charts, you find the costs are increasing into 2019 and climb upwards to about 250-300 billion a year and then levels off.

    Remember Medicare was supposed to top out at $12 billion.

25. #25
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:19 pm, Truesoldier said:

    The CBO said the bill’s cost of $829 billion would be financed by taxes and savings, and that it would cover 29 million uninsured.

    Ok here are my questions for politicians to answer(not like they will ever be asked):

    1) What are the specific taxes in the bill?

    2) Where will the savings come from? Again be specific.

    3) Who exactly are the 29 million unisured that will be covered?

    4) Will you post the entire bill for the public to see along with the answers to the above questions for a minimum of 72 hours prior to any vote?

26. #26
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:35 pm, dj said:

    I hope Congress and Dear Leader realize that when the rationing starts and people die waiting for treatment, the blood is on their hands. But since they don’t care about killing babies, I’m sure they won’t care about killing adults.

27. #27
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:36 pm, Regulus said:

    I don’t care what “cost calculations” they gin up from throwing darts at a board somewhere.

    This administration and its party have lied about the budget and the deficit so many times, and pulled will-’o-the-wisp dollar figures from their collective recta so many times, that I refuse to believe anything they say anymore.

28. #28
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:40 pm, Ron said:

    How can they put a price tag this big on a bill and say its deficit-neutral? How do they calculate that it’s going to actually save money? I’m waiting for the Heritage Foundation to look at the numbers and give them a more realistic interpretation. But the “non-partisan” CBO did what it was told to do: come out with something Obama could claim was not going to increase spending. Right. And the government is so good at estimating anything financial.

29. #29
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:53 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    Off topic but well worth mentioning, Michelle Bachmann defends Sarah Palin

    Conversely, Norm Ornstein throws out a revealing, unprovoked attack on Sarah:

    [P]er Norm Ornstein, a veteran analyst at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. “This time there may be a legitimate debate to be had over the dollar’s reserve status, but Sarah Palin is not qualified to participate in it.”

    Good for Michelle Bachmann. She is earning her conservative stripes. But thank you too Norm Ornstein for confirming to us that you are a Republican hack. Who said you get to decide who is qualified to participate in discussions? She better be included, she may be president one day.

    Everyone is afraid of Sarah except us conservatives. It tells us that she can win.

30. #30
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:53 pm, flenser said:

    it is ‘likely’ that Reid will use H.R. 1586—a bill passed by the House in March to impose a 90-percent tax on bonuses paid to employees of certain bailed-out financial institutions—as a ‘shell’ for enacting the final version of the Senate’s health care bill, which Reid is responsible for crafting.”

    Great. Then they can pass the “Obama Is King For Life Bill” by attaching it to a “shell” bill denouncing Roman Polanski.

    Can we drop the fiction that we live in a representative republic yet?

31. #31
    On October 7th, 2009 at 6:55 pm, flenser said:

    [P]er Norm Ornstein, a veteran analyst at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.

    The AEI is long overdue to be booted out of the right. Anne Applebaum is another member of it.

32. #32
    On October 7th, 2009 at 7:08 pm, Kingfish said:

    Since when has ANY Government program arrived on time and under budget?

    Here’s a good time to Euthanize the Obamacare now!

33. #33
    On October 7th, 2009 at 7:21 pm, chapoutier said:

    Since when has ANY Government program arrived on time and under budget?

    I am pretty sure the Apollo program came near budget. If anything, a little under.

34. #34
    On October 7th, 2009 at 7:26 pm, tiredofit08 said:

    This is insanity. We are going to have to run TEA Parties all Autumn long!

    what would be better is to blockade the capitol building with them in it…trouble is there are tunnels for them to escape….vote out all of them in 2010/2012 no matter who they are and be darn careful about who you replace them with…

35. #35
    On October 7th, 2009 at 7:39 pm, beenthere said:

    tiredofit08 said: This is insanity. We are going to have to run TEA Parties all Autumn long! what would be better is to blockade the capitol building with them in it…

    These are very good points. We have now reached the stage where direct action is required, by which I mean either strikes by citizens or mass civil disobedience. My own sense is that the establishment no longer considers the tea parties threatening or relevant. Which means we have to oblige their indifference and raise the ante. I wish it were not so, but I think tea parties are now viewed as threatening as letters to the editor.

36. #36
    On October 7th, 2009 at 7:42 pm, rpipich said:

    829 Just for care, how much more for the payroll of the new fed. staff?

37. #37
    On October 7th, 2009 at 7:48 pm, right_on said:

    At what point do these politicians get labeled “Enemies of the State?”

    They are actively trying to destroy the value of the dollar, limit free speech, limit representation, limit our right to self-defense, and will not hold the lawbreakers within their own ranks, accountable.

    Do we try to put out the fire only after the entire house is emgulfed in flames? What can we do?

38. #38
    On October 7th, 2009 at 8:04 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    On October 7th, 2009 at 7:39 pm, beenthere said:

    We have now reached the stage where direct action is required, by which I mean either strikes by citizens or mass civil disobedience.

    I suggested at lunch today that politicians get pelted with cream pies everywhere they go. Every time they open a door to peak, a cream pie comes out of nowhere. History can record it as “The Cream Pie Uprising”.

    It would be funny and effective. Of course, these wussies would pass new laws citing “violence” and “hate”. They’re right about the hate. I hate those corrupt weasels. But the humor would survive into the history books.

39. #39
    On October 7th, 2009 at 8:07 pm, SomeOtherSteve said:

    Let’s face it. The CBO had to work until the Dems got the numbers they wanted. The Baucus plan is a ruse for the bill to get out of the Senate Finance Committee and to the floor of the Senate. The Democrats hope to prevent the filibuster by having the bill leave out a public option. Senator Reid will then have the public option restored when the House and Senate go through reconciliation.

    It’s just a little back door action, and you know what’s going to happen to our back doors.

40. #40
    On October 7th, 2009 at 8:17 pm, chapoutier said:

    Let’s face it. The CBO had to work until the Dems got the numbers they wanted.

    Please. People around here are more than happy to throw around CBO numbers when they suit their purposes.

41. #41
    On October 7th, 2009 at 8:22 pm, love2rumba said:

    Please. People around here are more than happy to throw around CBO numbers when they suit their purposes.

    That’s just what the man said.

42. #42
    On October 7th, 2009 at 8:47 pm, SomeOtherSteve said:

    Please. People around here are more than happy to throw around CBO numbers when they suit their purposes.

    Okay, what, pray tell, do the habits of posters on this blog have to do with the intentions of the Democrats to subvert the filibuster in the Senate by waiting until reconciliation process to add the most unpalatable components of healthcare reform to the final bill?

    Of course, if Senator Reid attempted to do that, I’m sure the New York Times would print scathing editorials condemning that action, much like they condemned Bush’s recess appointment of John Bolton to be the UN ambassador. I’m sure the Easter Bunny will deliver that copy of the New York Times to my doorstep, too.

43. #43
    On October 7th, 2009 at 10:47 pm, ThunderHawkk said:

    I can’t believe this is happening. First of all, no govt. beureucrat is going to tell me what kind of health care I can have! Second, it is MADNESS to spend this amount of money when we are so in debt the dollar is in danger or collapsing completely. And now Pelosi wants a Value Added Tax??? What?? That is unbelievable!

    This is ALL so un-American! Who ARE these people?? Damn Obama to hell, that un-American bastard!

44. #44
    On October 7th, 2009 at 10:52 pm, tbear44 said:

    Beginning in 2013, the measure would require that millions of Americans purchase private insurance for the first time, and would set up a new marketplace where policies would be available. Failure to obey the requirement would result in penalties of up to $750 per family.

    Heh, good luck collecting that from me.

45. #45
    On October 7th, 2009 at 11:03 pm, graysonret said:

    Who’s going to pay for all this? I mean, really, who’s going to pay for all this…tarp, stimulus bills, health insurance? Tax the “rich”? Deficit neutral? Give me a break. I can just imagine coming home, one evening, with a brand new car, lugging in a 62 inch TV, 2 new computers, a landscaper and a man to completely redo the kitchen. My wife, a housewife, would have one question, “How are we going to pay for all this?” My answer: “Don’t worry, dear, it’s budget neutral.” She’d be calling the mental health hotline. “Don’t worry, dear, I’ll get another job.” I already do 50+ hours a week. Congress is like a teenager with a free credit card…spend, spend, spend, and the heck with tomorrow. “Hey, kids, gather around. Here’s the bills you have to pay.” I’d be lucky to last the day without a trip in a straitjacket. I see nothing but giving my patients substandard health care, while all of us are groaning under the heavy taxes that are forcefully taken out of the paychecks. Remember, government considers money as belonging to them. To them, it’s a deficit to allow you what is available in your pocket. Already, internationally, the rumblings have started about the value of the dollar. If I was China, or another country investing in the economy of America, I would be grumbling too. The loss of investment could be tremendous to my own economy. The American people are going to have one heck of a “hangover” when this “party” is over.

46. #46
    On October 7th, 2009 at 11:54 pm, Sunshein said:

    The cost and the reduction of healthcare concerns me greatly, but this whole process when implemented into a national system seems like the final step over the fence to an obama-communism society from where we cannot return.

47. #47
    On October 7th, 2009 at 11:56 pm, chapoutier said:

    Okay, what, pray tell, do the habits of posters on this blog have to do with the intentions of the Democrats to subvert the filibuster in the Senate by waiting until reconciliation process to add the most unpalatable components of healthcare reform to the final bill?

    Not a thing. But that is not what you were claiming in that sentence I quoted, was it?

48. #48
    On October 8th, 2009 at 12:15 am, Sunshein said:

    Since the plan doesn’t start until after Obamaa is reelected in 2012, it starts in 2013 …

    My guess is that when the wording goes down on paper for the final version of this healthcare bill after being already passed, some parts of it will take effect within months and the rest within months later. In this newly created dictatorship there will be no reason to wait.

    Dictator + Advisors/Czars = Total Control + No Need To Wait

49. #49
    On October 8th, 2009 at 1:13 am, SomeOtherSteve said:

    Not a thing. But that is not what you were claiming in that sentence I quoted, was it?

    I was saying that the Dems were tweaking things and having the CBO run numbers until they get to proclaim a cost savings (the numbers they want). YOU responded saying that people here do that all of the time. I asked for relevance. You have no idea how to support your original response. So, there is no telling what you may be thinking. Then again, you are just a troll. Don’t you have bridge to hide under? Come back when you can make a coherent argument.

50. #50
    On October 8th, 2009 at 1:29 am, chapoutier said:

    YOU responded saying that people here do that all of the time.

    No. I said that people here tend to like the CBO numbers when they suit their purpose. And then claim they are manipulated when they don’t suit their purpose. As you were doing.

    Then you went on some rant about reconciliation process. Which is a separate issue and which I was not addressing, but which you, for whatever reason, focused in on to attempt to counter my comment.

    Come back when you can keep your own arguments straight.

    Then again, you are just a troll.

    OHHH NOZ!!! YUZ CALLD ME A TROLLZ!!! Dude, if you think I’d have stuck around here for 2 years now and had some piddly little insult like that get under my skin, then you truly are as deluded as your comments here would indicate.

51. #51
    On October 8th, 2009 at 3:19 am, ajmontana said:

    and so far i’ve only heard about 8 hundred milion in “cuts” to midicare to pay for this and a Gretchen didn’t sound a critter on the miniscule amount that they seem to think will pay for this HORSEcARP, WHAT A J.O.K.E.

    thanks once again to all the dillweeds who voted for ODUMBA$$.

52. #52
    On October 8th, 2009 at 6:29 am, deedledee said:

    I heard on Philly’s Dom Giordano radio show that there is a 800 number to Congress that when dialed a message first asks the caller to tell your representive to vote yes for healthcare before you are switched to where you want to go. I only caught the tale end of the show. Did anyone hear the whole thing?

53. #53
    On October 8th, 2009 at 8:05 am, rplatt said:

    All you see is the facade but the devil is in the details (or in this case the assumptions). it’s not difficult to make a program deficit neutral if you include such things as; forcing citizens to buy a product and threaten to jail them if they don’t; take money form their bank accounts if the don’t pay; rape Medicare and put seniors at risk; then plunder and pillage the national defense budgets to gather even more funds for this fiscal disaster.

    Now, just what did people expect from that lap dog CBO? The last time they took issue with Obama he called in their boss and gave him an oral whipping. This is a well orchestrated sham and a lie designed to confuse and pacify the masses. This clandestine, totalitarian government is the antithesis of what the founding fathers intended. Everyone must insist they publish their assumptions and tell us how the intend to pay for this socialist healthcare manifesto.

54. #54
    On October 8th, 2009 at 8:22 am, stillontheroad said:

    $829 billion/10 years? Yea, right. Since when does spending this amout of money or any amount of money save money?
    By gutting Medicare? Putting those on Medicare in the lurch and most likely limiting their coverage because they are old? When you libtards see your healthcare taxed and the outfits you work for chuck you out like day old garbage and then you join the Public Option, I want to see the looks on your face when you are given 2 aspirin and told to go home and rest.

55. #55
    On October 8th, 2009 at 8:23 am, jjmurphy said:

    We can scream and yell all we want about how much this is all going to cost, is it revenue-neutral, what procedures are covered, yada, yada, yada.

    It all comes down to your beliefs. Does the government have the constitutional power to do this? I say no. So it doesn’t matter what the bill looks like. They have no power or right to do this. Then again, from my average joe reading of the U.S. Constitution, they don’t have the right to do 90% of what they currently do.

    If you think the “general welfare” wording allows them to do this, then this is entirely within their power. This is the belief system currently in charge of things.

    As the health-care debate show, we are irrevocably split between these two beliefs.

56. #56
    On October 8th, 2009 at 8:43 am, jangar said:

    ANY Congresscritter that votes for this bill is a TRAITOR to the
    United States of America, her people, and the Constitution.

57. #57
    On October 8th, 2009 at 8:58 am, SomeOtherSteve said:

    Dude, if you think I’d have stuck around here for 2 years now and had some piddly little insult like that get under my skin, then you truly are as deluded as your comments here would indicate.

    Too funny. Thanks for the laugh this morning.
    Keep trying to move the goalposts and quote out of context.

58. #58
    On October 8th, 2009 at 9:02 am, Schweggie said:

    Sent out my all points memo to fam/friends to melt the phones.

59. #59
    On October 8th, 2009 at 9:18 am, sonofdy said:

    The CBO said the bill’s cost of $829 billion would be financed by taxes and savings, and that it would cover 29 million uninsured.

    I thought it was 47 million uninsured.

    Aside from that minor issue, how many doctors will these reduced payments for services drive out of business?

60. #60
    On October 8th, 2009 at 9:26 am, sonofdy said:

    Socialist medicine works only if you do the following things.

    1/ The government pays most of the cost to educate the doctors.
    2/ You can not sue the doctors.
    3/ The government decides how much the doctors get paid.
    4/ The government decides what procedures can be performed.
    5/ The government decides who you get as a doctor.
    6/ The government decides what tests can be performed for each symptom.

    The list goes on and on.

    It works best in small countries, even then it has serious drawbacks. In a country this size, a 1% miss rate due to government restrictions on an expesive test might mean 100′s dead.

    And nobody in congress would give a flying fig about 100′s dead out of 350,000,000.

61. #61
    On October 8th, 2009 at 9:26 am, graysonret said:

    If you think the “general welfare” wording allows them to do this, then this is entirely within their power

    Many people were worried over the clause, “general welfare”, during ratification, hence the passing of the 9th and 10th amendments, that are ignored, of course, today. Madison, for example, expressed concern that it could be felt that the government could do anything it wanted, based on “general welfare”.

62. #62
    On October 8th, 2009 at 9:29 am, sonofdy said:

    If you think the “general welfare” wording allows them to do this, then this is entirely within their power

    Under this interpration it could also mean housing, income, and a car as a right that the government has to supply you with.

63. #63
    On October 8th, 2009 at 9:42 am, jjmurphy said:

    “If you think the “general welfare” wording allows them to do this, then this is entirely within their power”

    Under this interpration it could also mean housing, income, and a car as a right that the government has to supply you with.

    Yep, you’re exactly right. There is NO limit on what the federal government can do if you think the “general welfare” clause is “open”. I agree with those that cite Madison’s belief. The Constitution was written to strictly LIMIT government.

64. #64
    On October 8th, 2009 at 9:49 am, graysonret said:

    Madison: “If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every state, county and parish, and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision for the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, everything, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress.”

    Sound familiar?

65. #65
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:06 am, Netfest said:

    Hey anyone remember when Obama called the CBO chief over to the White House for a little talking to? Does anyone see anything wrong with the CBO all of sudden flip-flopping on the costs? Or, not actually questioning whether or not it is even possible to save $400 Billion in Medicare?

    Something fishy is going on here.

66. #66
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:18 am, chapoutier said:

    Sound familiar?

    You know…considering that this was a debate that was actually going on at the time, you’d think the founding fathers could have been a bit more explicit as to whether or not the Spending clause was a separate enumerated power. And would have been more careful about its placement within the text which certainly does not in any way indicate it is subordinate to the 15 or so powers that follow it.

    Pretty sloppy work there, guys…

67. #67
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:20 am, chapoutier said:

    Does anyone see anything wrong with the CBO all of sudden flip-flopping on the costs?

    Flip flopping on what again? This is the first time THIS bill has been scored by the CBO.

68. #68
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:21 am, jjmurphy said:

    you’d think the founding fathers could have been a bit more explicit

    Yes, that would have been a good thing.

69. #69
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:23 am, ErinF said:

    I am calling Snowejob’s office again for the millionth time. I urge everyone else who wants to, to do the same:

    (202) 224-5344

    (If they ask for a zip, just say 04101, Portland)

70. #70
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:31 am, cheapseat said:

    does anyone see a constitutional problem with unfunded mandates to states, to employers, to people? think medicare/medicaid, think collection and deposit of taxes and unemployment insurance, think swine flu injection mandate and confiscation for “redevelopement”.

71. #71
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:32 am, cheapseat said:

    and now people will be mandated to buy health insurance!

72. #72
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:38 am, Dave Turson said:

    Chap isn’t a troll. He would never seek to irritate us about the planned Obamacare push-through.

73. #73
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:39 am, chapoutier said:

    (If they ask for a zip, just say 04101, Portland)

    Come on. They will immediately spot you as From Away when they ask you a question and you do not reply “Ayuh” or when you call Snowe “dumb” instead of “numb.”

74. #74
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:45 am, Netfest said:

    Snowe needs to hear from the people of Maine. You can write her here (please be respectful):
    http://snowe.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactSenatorSnowe.Email

    And, Mitch needs to hear from Republican donors. If Sen. Snowe votes for this, we cut off the money to her and the Republican party. If the Dems are going to go it alone, and Snowe decides to help, she can switch parties or fund her own campaign.

75. #75
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:52 am, chapoutier said:

    Chap isn’t a troll. He would never seek to irritate us about the planned Obamacare push-through.

    That quote wasn’t about Obamacare. That was just me remembering the halcyon days of milk and honey when Bush used reconciliation to pass three separate tax cuts! Good times!

76. #76
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:57 am, DBNinKY said:

    Like senators on both sides of the aisle have said, the Baucus Bill is DOA because of the 400B+ cuts in Medicare; the Dems are only putting it forth as a prelude, a springboard (excuse) for the reconciliation passage of a health care bill containing a government option, which has been their objective from the beginning.

77. #77
    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:57 am, Dave Turson said:

    Yeah, Chap isn’t a troll. Chap loves conservatives. He proved his love by citing this post as ” the one I am most proud of.”

78. #78
    On October 8th, 2009 at 1:14 pm, xblade said:

    That was just me remembering the halcyon days of milk and honey when Bush used reconciliation to pass three separate tax cuts! Good times!

    Hmm, one guy uses it to let people keep what was theirs to begin with, and another wants to use it to take what isn’t his to do something he has no business doing. Nope, no difference there at all, lol.

79. #79
    On October 8th, 2009 at 1:24 pm, chapoutier said:

    Hmm, one guy uses it to let people keep what was theirs to begin with, and another wants to use it to take what isn’t his to do something he has no business doing.

    So you don’t object to reconciliation as a procedure per se. Just when it is politically expedient. Gotcha.

80. #80
    On October 8th, 2009 at 6:06 pm, Dimsdale said:

    On October 7th, 2009 at 8:17 pm, chapoutier said:

    Let’s face it. The CBO had to work until the Dems got the numbers they wanted.

    Please. People around here are more than happy to throw around CBO numbers when they suit their purposes.

    In the case of the denizens of this blog though, the CBO figures are used in the sense that “even the CBO agrees with X”, in the sense of “even the NYTimes finds the Democrats to be hypocrites.”

    In the case of the Congress, the CBO is used to launder figures if possible. No doubt irrespective of party.

81. #81
    On October 8th, 2009 at 6:08 pm, Dimsdale said:

    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:39 am, chapoutier said:

    (If they ask for a zip, just say 04101, Portland)

    Come on. They will immediately spot you as From Away when they ask you a question and you do not reply “Ayuh” or when you call Snowe “dumb” instead of “numb.”

    LOL!

82. #82
    On October 8th, 2009 at 8:31 pm, DBNinKY said:

    That was just me remembering the halcyon days of milk and honey when Bush used reconciliation to pass three separate tax cuts! Good times!

    Remind me, what were the unemployment numbers for those “halcyon” days?

83. #83
    On October 9th, 2009 at 12:29 am, txvet2 said:

    On October 8th, 2009 at 10:52 am, chapoutier said:

    That quote wasn’t about Obamacare. That was just me remembering the halcyon days of milk and honey when Bush used reconciliation to pass three separate tax cuts! Good times!

    Gee, and I didn’t even remember ’43 ever being in Congress. Unless, of course, you mean ’41 in his dictator years. You’re so full of crap, the whites of your eyes just turned brown.