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Comments

1. #101
   On October 14th, 2009 at 9:42 am, gridlock said:

   No shots.

   I am basically healthy, so if the flu is of the run-of-the-mill variety, I will just suffer through it.

   However, if the flu is terribly virulent and deadly, I don’t think the shot is going to make much difference.

   Your milage may vary.

2. #102
   On October 14th, 2009 at 10:02 am, SomeOtherSteve said:

   I will take my chances without the introduction of anything man is doing with the bugs TYVM.

   So did you get polio or small pox (provided you are in your late 40s or older) vaccines as a child? If so, are you upset with your parents getting you vaccinated?

   I’ll concede the point on subunit vaccines, though. I forgot about them. However, they do go through more rigorous safety testing than other vaccines.

   Again, “I got a flu shot and didn’t get the flu” is not an indication you would not have gotten the flu in the first place. There are many of us who do not get the shot and do not get the flu.

   So do you wear a seatbelt when you drive? After all, wearing a seatbelt does not prevent most accidents, nor will it prevent all injuries. I think in most, if not all states, the “goobermint” directs us to wear them.

3. #103
   On October 14th, 2009 at 10:03 am, dcbprime said:

   A kid I carpooled to school Monday was absent Tuesday with the H1N1.
   Some of my kids are home from school, and my wife is taking them to the doctor today to see if that’s also what they’ve got.
   I don’t see any point in my getting vaccinated.

4. #104
   On October 14th, 2009 at 10:30 am, Kwill said:

   My wife and I got regular flu shots this year because we have a 2 year old who was 4 lbs at birth, 10 weeks early. Normally I don’t bother and have had flu once a year or less.

   There’s a nasty (regular) one going around Indiana though that left us both with ear/eye infections after it was over. Yeah, we got it before we got the shots.

5. #105
   On October 14th, 2009 at 10:33 am, happy_mama said:

   I want to echo SomeOtherSteve’s comments. Vaccines for small pox and polio saved many many lives.

   And while I don’t believe we should force people to get shots – remember that one of the reasons you’re not getting the flu (without the shot) is that some of us take the personal risk of the shots and then the rest of you benefit. You’re riding free cause others are willing to take the shots and the individual risk.

6. #106
   On October 14th, 2009 at 10:38 am, cheapseat said:

   REGULAR FLU SHOTS FOR MY WIFE AND I SOLELY FOR MY PREGNANT DAUGHTER’S SAFETY.

7. #107
   On October 14th, 2009 at 10:54 am, kudafa said:

   My family never gets any vaccinations. We look after our own immunity, & none of us have been sick in more years than I can remember. We’ve travelled all around this great nation, been to Mexico, Europe, England, Ireland & Morrocco. Never even a sniffle. My daughter has never been vaccinated at all. All I did was go to the Public Health Dept, & demand an excemption. I believe 48 states have the right for parents to demand an excemption. The drone working at the public clinic gave me a load of crap about the “danger”. I cited the law & she backed down. For those skeptics, let me state this: yes, my daughter went to both private & public schools. When she 8 or 9 y/o, her school of about 400 had almost 100% of the students with the flu. In her class, one boy was hospitilized, and every other child had the flu. All were vaccinated. The ONLY child to not get the flu was my daughter. The irony & stupidity of the school & every other parent was not recognizing or asking why this happened. She graduated high school in June. (now for the proud parent bragging!) Her Honors grade point was 5.6 in a highly competetive academic environment, wore several sashes & what not for the other advanced classes. She had her pick of any university in the country & is now enrolled (without vaccination) in one of the best. My wife teaches in a large high school, & most, if not all of her students are vaccinated & get sick. She is in this environment 5 days/week, & at least 8-9 hours per day. Never gets sick. Herd immunity? Load of crap. Individual immunity is the only issue that counts. In an earlier post, someone mentioned squalene in the vaccine. Other items found in it is thimeresol, which is a form of mercury. Due to known risk, can’t find mercury anywhere, except in vaccines. Makes sense to anyone? Aluminum & other nasty stuff is also in vaccines. Take it or get it for your family if you decide. Just be aware of the real risks. As Barbara Loe Fischer says, “when it’s your child, the risk is 100%”.

8. #108
   On October 14th, 2009 at 11:01 am, happy_mama said:

   Kudafa – may I respectfully ask how it is that you “look after your own immunity”? What does that mean?

   So – if you’ve never had your child vaccinated and she’s never been sick – you’re very very fortunate. And an n of 1 does not a great study make. Just cause she wasn’t sick doesn’t mean the others got sick CAUSE of the vaccines.

   My question for you – if you were traveling to someplace where malaria was present – would you take anti-malaria meds or can you just “look after it” yourself?

9. #109
   On October 14th, 2009 at 11:02 am, SomeOtherSteve said:

   Gosh, kudafa, you’re right. Polio and small pox vaccines were useless. Herd immunity is a myth because there is no such thing as a vector.

   You also left out another deadly ingredient in vaccines: dihydrogen monoxide. People have died drinking that stuff.
   /sarc

10. #110
    On October 14th, 2009 at 11:32 am, kudafa said:

    Happy Mama-as a matter of fact, I’ve been to areas in the world
    (Nigeria, Ghana) with malaria, and yellow fever as well. No, I did not take any vaccines. You seem to overlook my statements. Due to the herd mentality, it seems likely that almost EVERY other child in her classes, as well as my wife’s school are immunized. So, it’s a case of 1 child out of a potential of 3000 when she was in high school. I submit that I do not know how many others did not get the flu, or how many may not have been immunized.
    SomeOtherSteve-once again, the vector is not as important as individual immunity. Answer this please–why is it that Ebola, the deadliest germ on the planet, still does not kill 100% in environments where there is no public health or vaccines? Please do not use the nonsense of the CDC that it “burned out”, when the survivors handled, washed, laid down with & kissed the unfortunate dead? Please fact check the change in diagnostic criteria about polio. It just so happens the it was changed just after vaccines became available. What was before that diagnosed as polio was then diagnosed as encephalitis. We cannot possibly have polio when there is a vaccine! It has to be something else! BTW, I do enjoy a spirited discussion, & I am sure your last comment was meant in jest. Surely, you won’t lower yourself to an ad hominem attack in your reply.

11. #111
    On October 14th, 2009 at 12:20 pm, SomeOtherSteve said:

    You mention all sorts of toxic materials in vaccines. However, you neglect to mention that they are in trace amounts well below the threshold to cause harm to humans. Just as the water in most vaccines is toxic in large enough doses, but it is not present in a large dose in a vaccine.

    As for individual immunity, how do you think vaccines work? They give information to the individual’s immune system so it has a better idea of how to work. Also, I will grant that there are variations in individual immunity. Without the vaccines, most people would not have immunity to plenty of different diseases.

    Ebola? You know for a fact that people didn’t change hygiene habits when the virus struck? How fast does it mutate? Are all mutations as virulent? Could a less virulent form help with herd immunity? Were there other conditions, either inherited or environment that reduced susceptibility? (By the way, sickle cell trait reduces the ability of the malaria parasite to live in a host while full sickle cell produces anemia that is frequently fatal.) Any infectious agent, no matter how deadly has to be able to maintain its routes of transmission and have viable hosts. (With herd immunity you reduce the number of viable hosts to the point that the probability of transmission drops to a point where the infectious agent doesn’t have enough viable targets. You don’t have to have EVERY person immunized to achieve that.)

    Vectors? Are you insinuating that the efforts to control mosquito populations had no effect on malaria in the Southeastern US? Why did malaria rates in Africa increase when DDT use ended?

    I do not believe that the CDC has declared polio eradicated. I also do not know where there may be any potential reservoirs for the disease or the viability of the virus outside of a host. You seem to imply that what was called polio is now called encephalitis. While there may have been misdiagnoses in the past due to less sophisticated diagnostic tools and techniques, how do you account for the drop in paralysis and the almost absence of iron lungs? Was all of that government propaganda?

12. #112
    On October 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pm, kudafa said:

    Gosh, Steve, you are a disputatious fella! I diagree with your assertion that people cannot have immunity without vaccines. When anyone gets exposed, their immune system reacts, & then immunity develops. This is what immune systems do! And humanity, from at least pre-hominids, have been doing well with it. As for polio, please check with the CDC. You will find info that polio rates were dropping like a stone from around the beginning of the 20th centeury. It was only after the vaccines were introduced that there was an upward spike. The diagnostic criteria for polio did not require any sophisticated lab tests; only the presence of paralysis & the time. If the critieria is changed, stats will certainly be effected. You cannot have the same rates of anything if it’s called something else. You may recall from my earlier post that my daughter is in college. Her roomie is the daughter of an M.D, & by her own statements, has had every vaccine there is. She takes meds frequently, is off to the health center just as often, & still displays signs such as hacking, sneezing, cough, fever, fatigue & so on. Yet she still defends this course of action, despite the obvious evidence she is not well. Rememeber the Einstein quote about doing the same thing over again & expecting different results. My daughter, living in that shoebox room with her, is fine. Whenever I reveal that my family has lived for decades wihout vaccines or medicine in general, some people get very riled up. I guess it has to do with their belief system being severely challenged. Perhaps that’s the case with you. It certainly isn’t my intention to change your thinking, but as you are an intelligent person, surely you must recognize that there are more ways to live, & live well, than solely in the medical paradigm. It is not an accident we are healthy. It takes work & personal involvement. Now, let’s end this on a friendly note & agree to disagree!

13. #113
    On October 14th, 2009 at 3:58 pm, SomeOtherSteve said:

    It’s good to have a spirited debate. If we didn’t want to debate, we could just accept what CNN, CBS, NBC, and ABC say as the gospel.

    I think we can agree to stop arguing about one point. We both agree that exposure to agents develops immunity. The only point of contention might be the degree of immunity conveyed by vaccines as opposed to passive exposure.

    Can we also agree that medical history and lifestyle choices such as exercise, recreational drug use (including smoking and drinking), personal hygiene and environmental exposures (such as molding your own bullets or fishing sinkers) can affect immunity?

    Giving one example (daughter and roommate) does not make for a good case study as there is no way to verify medical history and other confounding factors (like those mentioned above) that may influence health.

    As for polio, per your suggestion, I looked up polio rates. Polio was increasing from the late 1930s into the early 1950s. The rates dropped following widespread vaccination efforts in the mid 1950s until they got to the point where there was a period of 7 years (1998-2005) where there were no reported cases of polio.

    Okay, I have it out of my system. If we lived near each other, I’d invite you over for a barbecue so we could chat further on the subject.