A message from NY-23 conservative candidate Doug Hoffman
(Note from Michelle: This is a special guest post from NY-23 conservative congressional candidate Doug Hoffman. Please spread the word about the Nov. 3 special election and show your support. All hands on deck!)
It’s time for conservatives to show the Republican establishment who’s in charge
By Doug Hoffman
There’s nothing like a drop in the polls to bring out a candidate’s principles.
With her numbers plummeting – and mine rising – and only three weeks left until the election in NY-23, Dede Scozzafava has decided she needs to change her stripes to get conservative votes.
Specifically, she’s changed her position on income taxes. One would have expected more hostility to taxes earlier in the campaign, since she had a leadership role in her brother’s company as it racked up almost $200,000 in unpaid tax liens. But alas.
On August 18 Scozzafava’s campaign called my signing of the Taxpayer Protection Pledge a “stunt”:
Matthew A. Burns, campaign spokesman for Republican candidate Dierdre K. Scozzafava, said Mr. Hoffman’s pledge was a “stunt,” and did not indicate if his candidate would sign.
On October 1 Scozzafava herself publicly promised not to sign the pledge:
Scozzafava said she won’t sign the pledge because the income tax is just one form of tax, and that more people could be impacted if, for example, you refuse to increase income taxes under any circumstances but raise other taxes or fees instead.
But after two weeks of conservatives and independents abandoning her in droves to support my campaign, she has had a foxhole conversion:
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Dede Scozzafava, a Republican running in New York’s 23rd Congressional district, recently signed the Taxpayer Protection Pledge sponsored by Americans for Tax Reform (ATR).
I wouldn’t want to interrupt this show of steely principled resolve, but isn’t it slightly problematic to break a promise in the act of making another promise? Is there any lesson here except that Dede Scozzafava will say or sign whatever she thinks is mostly likely to get her elected?
I don’t think conservatives will be fooled. The more they learn about Dede Scozzafava, the worse she does in the polls. And the more they learn about my campaign, the better we do.
We can win this thing, but we’re up against limited time and an awful RNC and NRCC decision to support a liberal candidate.
Well, if the Republican Party wants to declare war against conservatives, I’m going to fight on the side of conservatives.
If you want to join my fight, I need you. We need money and we need volunteers – boots on the ground. If you can help, go to my website and sign up. Then show up.
It’s time for conservatives to show the Republican establishment who’s in charge.
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Okay, not Pawlenty. Who then? Palin? Honest to God, I would love to see this. And I bet 95% of all Dems would love to see her as the GOP candidate. I know the meme here is that liberals mock her because they are for some reason “afraid” of her. But it’s simply not true.
Yup, Scrapper, I’d say Pawlenty is a nice guy but he isn’t ready for prime time.
LOL, I exaggerated a bit about “his fave Prez”. What he said was “”It looks like we should have listened to President Carter,” he told the Minnesota Climate Change Advisory Group. “He called us to action, and we should have listened. . . .”
(On “Global Warming”.)
That from a Wall Street Jornal Oped by Jason Lewis – you probably know him from his KTLK program.
WSJ Oped – “Pawlenty’s Record”
So, using your logic, we the people are supposed to ignore our values and vote for a winner, who is then supposed to ignore our values to vote for his values.
Why bother voting if that’s the strategy?
Dunno, we have the luxury of finding that out in the next year & 1/2 or so.
Chappy, you ignore that which you poses you no threat, you attack that which you do perceive to be a threat. e.g. you don’t see a constant RonPaul Derangement Syndrome in Democrats. But they wax near insane with fury at even the mention of Palin.
Um…first off Palin is way more exposed than Paul, so of course there is going to be proportionately more mocking of her. But second, liberals DO mock Ron Paul (or more accurately, his followers) all the time! Have you ever been to wonkette.com? (N.B. You probably don’t want to go to wonkette. Just take my word for it.)
Michele Bachmmann is no threat to ever acheive higher office, yet she too is one of the left’s favorite punch lines because…well, she puts herself out there a lot and she give them a lot of material. It has zero to do with threat level.
The liberals go nuts over Palin, but also over Michele Bachmann. What they have in common, of course, is that they are true conservative women. For some reason, the moonbats are terrified of conservative women. Why is that? My Mother was a strong, conservative woman who raised five healthy, happy children in a loving household. Wow…how terrible. The libs simply cannot grasp the concept of a loving, stable household with a man and a woman, married and raising their kids in traditional values and love of country. That just drives them nuts. We have to get rid of those creatures who have hijacked our country. How dare they!! They have no right! And Obama is absolutely, positively a TRAITOR…HE PUT HIS HAND ON THE BIBLE AND PLEDGED AN OATH TO PRESERVE AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES. That man doesn’t respect the Constitution. He needs to go down…for treason against this country. Sorry…I got carried away. That seems to be happening more frequently lately.
*Try thinking third rail, rather than third party, and crock pot, not microwave; It will take a lot of time and effort to slow this socialist horse down and put him in the stable(Remember, George Bush saddled him up for P-BO, and he had a lot of GOP help).
*The third rail can be a Tea Party Clearinghouse on the web, with some of the following:
**Complete election roster of who to support, and who to toss out(Dems and Reps alike).
**Key races identified as to where the money should be funneled.
**A section dedicated to dicrediting(or calling out) so called conservatives on various issues(Newt on man-made global warming; Huckabee as an amnesty wobbler; Romney as a FairTax opponent).
**A special section dedicated to the earmark kings and queens of both parties; They have literally economically raped our future generations of any chance at the so called “good life”; They deserve the extra recognition.
***Those are just some examples of how conservatives can come together for some one-stop shopping and ride herd on these scoundrels until D.C. once again speaks for us.
I’m not sure how you’d quantify that, Chap. But still, the point is one poses an electoral threat to Democrats and the other doesn’t. Hence the obsession with Sara Palin.
Again that’s contrary to the reality. If Bachmann posed no political threat to Democrats they wouldn’t be in such a desperate frenzy, pouring so much time and money to try to beat her. Even NPR notes the frenzy:
Democrats seek to unseat Michele Bachmann
You can find a whole buncha news articles like that re: the Dems desperate focus on her. But I’m glad they’re wasting their money and time on it. Her district is just not overly fond of outsiders issuing orders on how to vote.
That’s a good idea.
Palin would be lucky to get 40% of the vote. Have you seen her recent favorables?
How is it a surprise that Democrats want to win a seat that is very very vulnerable (she won with 46% of the vote in 2008)? That does not make her a threat. Quite the contrary.
Michele Bachmann would make a great president!
purplepeep: There has to be some transformation past this Tea Party movement, something conservatives can coalesce around, so I have offered up an example; It’s not enough to vent on entrenched politico’s of either party at town hall meetings; They have short memories; Michelle does a great job in exposing the scum of both parties, and someone like Andrew Breitbart comes to mind as capable of hosting a clearinghouse as mentioned.
*Another great example on said website would be a side by side of what the politician has been saying versus their voting record; That would get them squealing like a stuck pig, and that is what is needed.
No, that was not the logic I was using. That is your inability to distinguish between blue and purple because they both are not red.
Letting the candidate who least represents your values become the person who gets to wield power is idiotic. It is a strategy that most rewards the person who most considers your values most deserving of ridicule and disposal.
And, again, anyone who still cannot see the difference between Obama and McCain is either living in a cave or in extreme denial.
Roland:
Please show me examples of how McCain has worked to stop the growth of government and/or has worked to slow socialism. I’m not aware of any such activities. Therefore – your wishful thinking notwithstanding, there is in fact no difference in those categories.
c
“the point is one poses an electoral threat to Democrats and the other doesn’t.”
I expect by the time Nov 2012 comes around Obama’s numbers will be so low that the GOP could run any commenter here and get a massive landslide win.
LOL. Chap, you do notice that Bachmann is “US House Of Representative Bachmann” now, right?
If she were not perceived a threat by the Democrats they would not be making this the “make or break situation” for their party. In fact, the Democrats are so obsessed with her that Politico notes:
“Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann is outspoken, conservative, media-friendly — and for many in the Democratic Party, a new public enemy No. 1.
Now that former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is out of office, there are few Republican officials in the country Democrats would rather unseat in 2010 than Bachmann”.
Now, even if I didn’t like the lady, I still have the long time experiential advantage of knowing Minnesota politics. There are things that you can bet the farm on; Michelle Bachmann winning again in 2010 is one of them.
The Democrats fear her influence, as they do Palin’s, hence the all-out war.
It makes no sense to waste attacks on that which you do not fear will overcome you. It’s like being outdoors – a person doesn’t stomp on every ant he sees. But since bees can deliver a nasty sting (fatal to some), a person will try to kill a bee.
What we’re talking about here is the Dem’s very singular,focused obsession on Palin and Bachmann. Tell me who/what someone “thinks against” most of the time and who/what that person “thinks for” most of the time and I’ll tell who/what they fear the most and who/what they respect the most.
On October 17th, 2009 at 4:53 pm, MarcoPolo said:
So, using your logic, we the people are supposed to ignore our values and vote for a winner, who is then supposed to ignore our values to vote for his values.
That is the best way I ever herd it put.
The only person who can take down Obama is someone who can equal or exceed the level of sheer enthusiasm he has generated. Also someone who can harness internet communications the way his people did.
The rules have changed. It’s not so much about money anymore as it is media and the star power factor.
So, we all know who that would be, right?
chapoutier said:
chap, the Democrats were scared to death Republicans would pick McCain as their candidate. Gee that worked well.
I guarantee you Palin would do far better than McCain did. After 4 years of Obama, the Republicans could run Mickey Mouse as their candidate and win.
Yeah, PA. But, sorry – I have to refuse the nomination.
Then you are a gutless coward.
Ooops, did I take that literally again?
In the immortal words of Greg Gutfeld.
“You are worse than Hitler.”
I’ve had it with you spineless cowards.
Going to walk the official mascot of the monster thread, Burrito Belly.
Oh really Chaps?
As much as I am trying to like Michelle Bachman, the fact is that her fame so far is based solely on her penchant for making highly publicized conservative statements. Every time I see her in the news, I can count on getting another e-mail from her staff asking for money for a committee. She’s not running for anything but is always seeking money to “stop Obama…” or “Drill here, drill now…” or some other bumper sticker issue. So far, she looks to me to be another Newt Gingrich in the making. An RNC tool.
I hope I’m wrong and I’m reserving judgment but I would like to see how she is once wounded in a fight. I have not been impressed with when she speaks because she always seems to have memorized canned responses.
And she’s not exactly a very effective legislator either. Despite her frequent amendments to legislation, they never pass or get adopted.
Bachman may have a future but she hasn’t accomplished a single thing yet. I don’t know why anyone would be sending her money today instead of Doug Hoffman who is engaged in a real and very important battle for conservatism. His victory could be the very crack in the wall we’ve been looking for to start the ball rolling for 2010.
Go Sarah!
Addendum to my last post on Michelle Bachman:
She hasn’t suffered that inevitable “don’t worry your pretty little head” moment at the hands of the RNC yet. We’ll see what she’s made of when it happens. We saw how Sarah Palin reacted, she “went rogue”. Bachman? We’ll see. I hope she has a spine to stand and fight for her convictions. America can use THAT Michelle Bachman.
Actually, she is, Phil. Here’s a link to the Politico story I mentioned to Chappy in a comment above:
For Dems, a new public enemy No. 1
Missed this in my comment above.
You’re uninformed, Phil. I don’t mean that as an insulting “you’re informed” it’s just that even her Wikipeda entry has a section on her work in Congress.
BTW, it’s “Bachmann” – two n’s.
PLEASE! DO NOT VOTE FOR A RINO.
NEVER VOTE FOR A RINO.
A RINO is NOT better than a Democrat. We’ve seen this over and over again.
MAKE THE RNC and RNCC PAY. Do not send them ANY money. Please!!
purplepeep: Bachmann just arrived at the scene and besides, Wikipedia is not exactly the definitive source of proof. Every single congressman get their name added to bills that pass so the credit can be spread around. My point is that she has not spear-headed anything to conclusion. I am, for instance, 100% behind her bill amendment requiring the inclusion of language to explain exactly how the Constitution empowers Congress to enact all proposed bills. It didn’t pass.
There is no point arguing with me about Bachmann. I like her. My point is that it is far too early to be commandeering discussions about an election that is happening in two weeks to discuss an untested albeit potentially important conservative Republican who is not at the moment running for anything.
Talk to me when she is working on something besides another fund-raising stunt.
If I have to choose between voting for a RINO and voting for a communist, I will choose the RINO. And not voting at all is like voting for the communist. So is voting for a third party that hasn’t a prayer of winning but only would split the Republican vote and give the win to the communist. We are in a war to save our country from communism. We can deal with RINO’s a lot more effectively than we can deal with communists. This is very very serious, folks. Our country is in grave danger. I would rather have RINO’s in office than communists. It is that simple and basic to me. That doesn’t mean I will give any more money to the RNC. I won’t. I am supporting conservative candidates with my money. But when it comes to voting, I refuse to deliberately allow a communist to win.
You are entitled to your opinion. You totally love Sarah Palin. I get that. But she isn’t running for anything right now either. Calling Michele Bachmann’s fund-raising efforts a “stunt” is insulting. You are starting to piss me off with your judgemental posts. If I made demeaning statements like that about Sarah Palin, you would be calling me a troll.
Keep track of each vote by clicking on the number under “Vote”:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_111_1.htm
As a practical matter you are proven wrong every time McCain votes against an Obama supported bill. You are wrong a great deal.
BTW, you are obviously not proven right every time McCain votes with Obama. YOU and Phil and so many others here are the ones claiming there was “no difference.” I am clearly not claiming they are completely opposite.
Personal attacks are no substitute for well-reasoned arguments using facts and sound logic. If you don’t like the message, killing the messenger solves nothing. Face it, it’s very frustrating to be defending the indefensible.
(Since when is liking Sarah Palin AND Michelle Bachmann a being anti-Michelle Bachmann?????? Very twisted logic happyscrapper).
Pasadena Phil said:
No idea what you mean there, Phil – “arrived at what scene”?
(She’s been in elective office since 2000.)
That’s why I stressed even Wikipedia can list her accomplishments.
But what legislative or other accomplishments of hers do you refute?
And since the RINO votes the same as the communist, it’s unclear to me how conservatives are better off. In fact, many would argue conservatives are worse off having to fight an enemy on “their own side” vs. fighting one on the “other side”.
What personal attacks? You mean telling you that you are pissing me off with your judgemental posts? Those aren’t personal attacks, those are facts. You ARE judgemental, and you ARE pissing me off. So what personal attacks are you referring to?
Defending the indefensible? That’s your opinion and you are entitled to it, but again, it just shows that you believe your opinion is the only one that is valid and disagreeing with you is indefensible. Sigh.
I didn’t say you were anti-Michele Bachmann…only that your calling her fundraising efforts “stunts” was insulting.
There is nothing wrong with my logic, only your strange interpretation of what I actually said.
I agree Phil. But folks have offered the facts – note Roland’s link to legislation and my own to Michelle Bachmann’s legislative record at Wiki.
And that was what you did in both cases – “Er….well, you can’t believe what you read…..”
Lets not forget: Looks matter. Compare Palin and Bachmann to Hillary and Pelosi. The fact that both are attrative help dispel the liberal myth of the “ugly” conservative.
It is the “Cult of Personality” with Obama. The GOP will need to find someone with “star” power to run in 2012. Experience won’t matter. Obama had none, why should our candidate?
purplepeep: we can have this discussion about Bachmann when she is actually engaged in a real battle. Right now, she is nothing more than a noisy back-bencher playing along with Republicans.
And I really must address that nonsense Roland just posted about McCain voting against Obama. McCain is FAMOUS for voting with Republicans and conservatives when the issue is already determined. It is when the game is on the line that he turns all “mavericky”. His name is on most of the landmark uber-liberal legislation of the past ten or so years. Thankfully, most of them lost. Unfortunately, the Dems are still pushing for amnesty, Cap and Tax, Obamacare (yes, McCain is for it) and the rest. Are you new to legislative politics Roland? Have you heard the term “Kabuki” somewhere?
Oh, come on now CR…RINOs are the same as communists? Get real. You do understand what a communist is, don’t you? And what they are capable of? Like murdering innocent citizens? Etc. How can you possibly justify saying they are one and the same? This is ridiculous. I am NO FAN of RINO’s and will fight to get them out of office, if I can. But again, they are “better” than communists any day! If you think that a John Boehner is the same as a Van Jones, you are delusional.
I would have thought Barack Obama would have forever laid the “experience” issue to rest. Obama still has less experience than Dan Quayle did when he was selected as Vice President.
If Obama is the new measure for “experience” then EVERY freshman Congressman or Senator now qualifies.
Odd that folks would be arguing about experience. The problem with all too many politicians is they have TOO MUCH EXPERIENCE and can no longer be trusted to represent the will of the elected. No, more experience does not really seem to be the answer to our current problems. More will to faithfully defend the constitution is the real matter.
Hunter/Bolton 2012
Until Palin disavows her previously stated support for a new path to citizenship for illegal aliens, I will not support her.
No conservative can support abandoning the rule of law.
This is exactly the kind of snarky, demeaning put-down that gets me pissed off with you, PP. A perfect example of your sarcastic dealing with people who are basically on the same team as you. But you really can’t see that, can you? I really can’t take any more of you tonight.
Yup, that’s one reason why the vague “she’s just arrived at the scene” (re:Bachmann) seemed a tad silly to me.
Well, at least we all agree that Obama blows!
If you want to thank someone for America’s current sad state of political awareness, thank an NEA union teacher…
Sorry happyscrapper, Roland is very loose with the facts and often LIES about things that I said when he not reframing what I say to change its meaning. I reserve the right to “snark” at people who are dishonest. I am very deliberate and succinct in my arguments and would like it if people addressed what I say with honesty. I can handle being proven wrong. I have no patience for those who lie, distort and offer nothing but emotional nonsense.
BTW, this entire thread is below a call to arms to fight against the corrupt RNC. How are we on the same team? You have been arguing to support Scozzafava for the sake of party unity. Conservatives are about to turn the tide and you are defending the enemy. Stop telling us that you are a conservative. You are not. You are a Republican. Say it. “I am a Republican, not a conservative”. You can’t be both.
Well, you certainly cannot be a “Conservative Republican” and support this socialist lunatic running as a Republican in New York.
One thing I have noticed is the rise of cognitive dissonance. People seem to have no trouble holding two positions simultaneously that cannot possibly be true.
Again, we can thank the union members at the NEA for dumbing down the last two generations of Americans and making this disfunctional thought process “mainstream!”
If you can rationalize Obama’s policies, thank a union teacher!
Where did I say I support Scozzafava? Where? And where did I say we needed “party unity”? Never! I have said many times, I no longer support the GOP as they are today. And for you to judge me as “not a conservative” is the last straw. I so deeply resent that, I can’t tell you how much. Let me say it once again…we disagree on how to get our country back. A third party is not necessarily the answer, and could entrench the communists for years to come. Many others agree with me. That does not mean they are defending the enemy. And it does not mean they are not conservatives. They just disagree with YOU. GOOD NIGHT, JERK.
Phil calls me a liar etc, claiming I reframe his words to change their meaning and so on ……. and then he claims Happyscrapper was supporting Scozzafava.
Having a little projection problem there, Phil?
Isn’t it funny how all of the strong conservative women are “punch lines”? Could it be that whole Alinsky ridicule thing and a complict media?
We obviously can’t have a white male because they have no moral authority to take a stance on any domestic issue without acccusations of racism, sexism, homophobia, xenophobia, etc.
So that leaves us with people like chappy telling us who our candidate should be. Of course, they pick “moderates” like McCain. Hey, could it be that letting the opposition pick our candidate might not be a winning strategy?
This is kind of a moot point. If the Dems retain majorities in both houses we’ll be able to run Homer Simpson as a candidate and beat Obama.*
* Assuming we’re allowed to have a legitimate election.
Here is an interesting ticket for 2012:
Watts/Rice. The liberal media would go crazy on how to deal with it.
And why is she “way more exposed” than Paul? Because of media fixation and obsessive pursuit of her. The drive by media, who are Obama lapdogs, will try to kill anyone who poses a threat to their messiah.
It’s fair to say if he were trying to make some kind of a sentient point that it jumped the shark.
“Moi: Chappy, you ignore that which you poses you no threat, you attack that which you do perceive to be a threat. e.g. you don’t see a constant RonPaul Derangement Syndrome in Democrats.”
“Chappy: Um…first off Palin is way more exposed than Paul, so of course there is going to be proportionately more mocking of her.”
Good point, atheling. It’s the opposite of the infatuation with positive and fawning endless media saturation of Obama.
“Dede Scozzafava, a Republican running in New York’s 23rd Congressional district, recently signed the Taxpayer Protection Pledge sponsored by Americans for Tax Reform”
Bad move. It shows her to be nothing more than a RINO whose principles are negotiable. I can respect someone, no matter how misguided or wrong they are, if they really actually believe it and stand by their principles. In her case it just shows how stupid she thinks the voters are. I am sure that pledge is just so much buttwipe to her.
You just did a marvelous job of copying a liberal tactic there. You didn’t address the point – that if the RINO and the communist vote the same, how exactly are we better off with the RINO? Further the point about fighting elements within vs. without….when you are trying to explain to the masses what you stand for, it’s far easier to do if your side walks the talk. With RINO’s, the masses are easily confused.
Reminds you of a certain occupant of the White House, doesn’t it?
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
Where have you been, sir?
The Republicans declared war on conservatives so long ago, many of us wouldn’t remember it, and it was done so stealthy that many others among us STILL haven’t figured it out.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
That’s not what it’s time for Republicans to be shown.
Republicans need to be shown THE DOOR.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
In Mr. Hoffman’s defense, and possibly seeming out of character for me, I must say that there are people who are trying (however unsuccessfully) to change the parties from within. There aren’t many of them (we have Steve Lonegan here in NJ), but just jumping down the man’s throat because he’s running as a Republican is foolish.
Look at the man’s positions on the issues that you consider “conservative” (consistent with your beliefs) – THEN decide. If you don’t support him at that point, fine, but don’t simply brush him aside because of the R next to his name.
I will never support a liberal, as I have said before, but whatever conservatives are actually presented, I will support. Have I looked into Hoffman’s record? Of course not. That’s for New Yorkers to do, but to denounce him just because of his party affiliation is a big mistake, especially for those of you who think the right thing to do is change the party from within (which all of you already know I think is futile).
Check out the man’s positions and inspect his record. That’s how you’re going to know if you’re compatible as candidate and voter.
Forget his party affiliation. It’s not really relevant anyway, given that the “major” parties are becoming less relevant every day.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
Interesting that I haven’t seen anyone post this link (it may be there, and I apologize if I have either missed it or haven’t read far enough yet.
Here is the Conservative Party Website/cms/.
Take a look. It is very good in my opinion (though you know what I think is the ideal). If you agree with their views, consider supporting them, but do be sure and research other conservative factions as well. There are many.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
A pendlelum? Wow, I can’t even say that!
Pardon me for making a joke out of a typo. It was just too tempting. Feel free to do the same to me, given my lousy typing skills!
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
O.K. Let me answer that question for you, CR. And the answer is obvious! A RINO who votes liberal and a communist who votes liberal have the same effect when it comes to that vote. However, RINO’s don’t vote liberal every time, NOR, are they trying to infiltrate our country with communism, thus destroying us. Do you see any differences now? RINO’s may have liberal tendancies, for whatever reason, usually to “get along” with the opposition and be “politically correct”. But they are not radicals who want this country to become socialized, they are not anti-capitalism, and they don’t want our Constitution trashed! If you can’t see these very evident differences, we have no reason to debate this issue further. This is an issue of logic and you are not being logical when you say they are one and the same. Again…VOTING LIBERAL AND WANTING TO CHANGE THIS COUNTRY TO COMMUNISM ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! Geez…who am I dealing with here? You accuse me of liberal tactics? What are you doing???
YES!!
I am hoping that this thread is not dead. I REALLY want to get my point across here! As RWR said, just being against a Republican because of the R after the name is cutting off your nose to spite your face. Or, to quote another cliche, Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. If you do, the communists will become further entrenched in 2010. We can’t fight this by trashing everyone in Congress who doesn’t toe the exact Conservative mark. IT.WON’T.WORK. Getting Conservatism back as the “norm” in this country is going to take a lot more than getting rid of everyone who might actually be on our side. There are not enough completely true, die-in-the-wool Conservatives out there. There are, however, a lot of Conservatives who we agree with on most issues, but disagree with them on a few issues. We need to pick our battles. This is not simply a matter of getting rid of liberals. It is a matter of survival. I fear, however, that literal war may be the only solution here. I hope I’m wrong.
And by the way, if this thread is dead, I am going to repeat these posts on another…so be warned.
RINO’s tick me off and can screw things up but it all boils down to one thing for me (in this seemingly never ending argument) and that is; who proves he/she loves THIS country (America!) more than the other ‘candidate’.
In other words, McCain has proven he loves this/his/our country.
I can NOT say that about President(!) Obama.
a distinction without a difference. leftists (including rinos) are all members of ‘the hive’ all working towards the same goal…whether they want a ‘people’s republic’ or ‘compassionate conservatism’ it all equals socialism and the state in charge of every aspect of our lives.
I’d MUCH rather vote for a liberal dem, than a liberal republican pretending to be conservative…bettter an honest enemy than a deceitful ‘friend’ like that moron spector.
and he’d only destroy it and turn it into a socialist state a bit slower than obama…
And he can’t wait to turn it over to Mexico…
You are missing my point. Arlen Sphinctor is an extreme example of a “republican” gone bad. Most of the RINO’s in Congress are not that far left. They compromise more than we want. We don’t agree with them all the time. BUT, as GK just said, if they love this country, I would vote for them over a communist. That is the bottom line. Seriously, if you dig in your heels on this issue, we will lose in 2010. Mark my words.
When I listen to John Bainer, for example, I am very annoyed by his waffeling on some of the issues. But underneath, he may be working for our good…just has to be careful about what he says because he is right there in the middle of the fight. I like a lot of things he says. AND, he is very much right of center. Are communists “right of center”? Of course not! So are they different? Um…yeah!
I truly dislike John McCain…in so many ways. He was a terrible candidate. He wants amnesty. He is even waffeling on some big issues that he is dead wrong on. His “reaching across the aisle” has gotten us into a lot of the mess we are currently in. Having said all of that…I would vote for him before I would vote for a communist. He not only served this country well, but he is for a strong defense. That alone makes him MUCH better than Obama. Obama is going to get us killed with his horrible foreign “policy”. For me, the bottom line is…do you love this country, and its Constitution? OR, do you hate this country and want to destroy the Constitution? There is really no question in my mind which way I would vote. Sometimes, you need to work with what you have, and then work to change it from within. If you have deeply entrenched communists in power, you have a harder time getting rid of them, than if you have a bunch of RINO’s. I want to get rid of RINO’s and communists…but we have to choose our battles and make getting rid of the communists our top priority.
Support your Conservative candidates…YES!!! Don’t give to the GOP…I’m not. But, be realistic about what we are facing. If we split our votes, we will lose in 2010 and beyond.
Some of you are upset with the RINOs because of certain issues, like amnesty, or big spending, etc. But you are not all even in agreement about what upsets you! What I’m trying to say is that we are NOT going to agree on everything. Yes, McCain wants amnesty. So did Bush. He didn’t get it, did he? But Obama and a majority in Congress probably WILL. We held Bush in check over this issue…but if we split our votes and allow the liberals to keep Congress, they WILL succeed in getting amnesty. Once those illegal aliens become “legal”, they will vote dem. and we will be finished.
Wow. Sorry I had to step away from this conversation, but I think we are going around in circles in any case. All I can say is I truly truly think that liberals would love to see Palin as the GOP candidate. I truly truly think that she is absolutely unelectable in a general election. She would not get nearly enough independent support. There are a ton of candidates I fear more than her. For example, Jindal. He has fallen off the map since his SotU response. It was bad, but not career ending. He would have been better off getting right back out there.
You can choose to believe me, or not.
The difference between the socialists and rthe socialist-lite RINOs is merely that: the socialists tell you that they hate our country; they tell you that they want to dismantle and destroy our great country; and they intend to kill us off by throwing us into boiling water….(To use the how-to-boil-afrog analogy.)
Whereas, the socialist-lite RINOs want to attain the same goals by soothingly telling us that they are “republicans”, while veeerrryyy slowly turning up the heat under the water into which they’ve tossed us.
Exactly.
For years, after hearing politicians’ ads that tout all that they have “accomplished” – read: how they’ve screwed us – in Washington, or whatever office the’ve held; I’ve thought…and that’s a good thing?
And in any case, good luck Doug Hoffman. I wish we had more viable parties across the entire political spectrum.
I agree with you, Chap. Sarah Palin can be effective as a vote-getter for the candidate, but as a candidate herself? I don’t think so. I don’t care for Bobby Jindahl either. His oratory skills are awful. We desperately need someone who can orate well and get the message through. Jindahl is not that person. He is hard to listen to…talks too fast and enunciates in very strange places. Not a good speaker.
Sorry I have been so vocal on this thread. I am just very very worried that the conservatives are splitting off into smaller factions and we won’t have a prayer. Is the GOP the answer? I don’t think so…but we have to be very careful. 2010 may be too soon throw over the GOP!!
I will give you folks a rest now. My grandkids are coming over to watch the Vikings game with me…or rather, distract me from it!
What is this thread supposed to be about again? Oh yeah. NY-23 and Doug Hoffman. But again, the noseholders have taken over and turned it into a thread about how evil we conservatives are and how we absolutely must vote for Republicans because blah, blah, blah…
You guys are really something. Why are you commenting at a conservative blog anyway? You ought to be commenting at RINO Central: Townhall.com.
You are a rude, sarcastic SOB and I am sick of your insults. You are not the only one on this thread and your opinion is not the only valid one out there. Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have a voice here. So shut up already. Now that you are back here…I am done. You are really creeping me out.
If we hold together we can, in 2010, begin to dilute, yes begin to dilute the republican party with conservatives. We then must continue to dilute it enough into eventually having a majority of conservatives in the republican party.
Our strategy should be to find and support conservatives who are in the republican party. Maybe at some point in time down the road, we change the name of the party to ‘Conservative’ but the point is, we need to work inside the system. Change it from the inside out slowly and methodically. Freakin libs have been doing that to us for 50 years!! … sorry just got a little emotional there … but I hope you understand what I probably so poorly stated.
Phil and Happy, we need to all work this out. Here and now is better than later. (Sorta like the race issue … need to hash it out once and for all.) Anyway, I’m glad we are having this discussion because most of us basically have the same end goals/principles. We just are arguing on how to get there.
I understand the point perfectly..vote for LOTE…I’m done with that. unless a republican is conservative as hell…socially as well as fiscally, I’m not voting for them. I’d rather see the country get ruined quickly rather than slowly. thats the only difference. the republicans have done much to advance the progressive agenda, since Bush the elder was in office…hell with em. let em keep nominating ‘me too’ republicans..I won’t vote for em. not for anything.
I’m not sure who this *we* is you are talking about, but when RINOS win freedom loses. and thats the bottom line.
we’ve already lost. conservatism is dead as a political force in this country….we are on the road to detroit..with a one-party state….and big obama (er brother…sorry) as leader…
Also back to my comment #825839, I want to clarify:
In a strategy to dilute the republican party with conservatives, there may be races where no conservative (as republican) is running (against a lib)e.g. in 2010. IMHO, we should hold noses and vote for the RINO (i shudder as i type)because we can possibly sway him/her down the road on this issue and that. If we can’t sway them, hopefully our Tea Parties can disembowel them, giving a conservative time to garner support enough to step up to run.
No it’s not, it’s just getting started!
After reading some of these comments, now I can understand why
became such a powerful battle cry for the opposition.
Getting discouraged only brings on defeat.
Sorry, but that kind of rigidity is just plain nuts.
So many ‘conservatives’ do not understand there is no natural ‘bottom’ we can count on stopping at, and there is no natural ‘pendulum’ by which we are automatically destined to return to good values.
In our past it was the good values that would put in the bottom. It was the good values that always made the pendulum swing back.
Now the rot can go on forever.
happyscrapper – We disagree greatly on the damage being done by non-conservative officeholders. You assert that a RINO doesn’t vote against the country 100% of the time and is therefore better than the “communist”. I would assert that the “communist” doesn’t vote against the country 100% of the time either. I’m pretty sure you can find some vote of ANY officeholder that you would agree with. Also, I’m sure you can find some D who has voted your position more often than some R. So again I say – Voting for the RINO who apparently holds no core conservative values but only takes “republican” positions in the interest of getting elected, gains nothing. And as I said, it in fact may be worse. You feel otherwise. We agree to disagree.
There’s one sense in which Van Jones may actually be preferable: he energizes the opposition.
Look, I’m not absolutely saying to vote third party. I realize that there are competing considerations involved. But with all due respect, I think you need to realize that also. There is a very plain, enormous tactical advantage that can’t be ignored in having your enemy in front of you rather than behind your lines. I don’t think a lot of conservatives fully appreciate the almost incalculable damage done to the cause when you have people like George W. Bush say things like “compassionate conservative”. When Republicans cave, that makes it extremely difficult for our voices to be heard, because it allows the media to rebrand our views as “extremist”, no matter how much our fellow citizens agree with us (but are afraid to say so publicly). I’d like to think that the Tea Parties would have been as strong as they have been, or even existed at all, had McCain won the 2008 election, but I have my nagging doubts.
Again, I understand the risks of voting off-board, believe me I do. It’s just that we have to look at both sides of the equation.
I knew I was casting pearls before swine.
oh yeah we’ve tried it your way, and look where we are…talk about nuts doing the same old thing over and over and expecting different results…
try history 101 and get a clue. look around your strategy hasn’t done a damned thing.
It just isn’t a proper r4l post without throwing this gem out yet again!
So hows the track record on your way? How many 3rd party candidates have ever been elected to Congress or the Presidency?
I wish you were right…but if you think the democrats are going to give up power very easily, think again.
ACORN and the democrats have thoroughly corrupted the voting process. they’re not going to give up power again.
you really are obsessed with me aren’t you? why don’t you go take a flying leap you left-wing piece of trash?
ever figure out the mechanism for evolution???? yeah that was funny as hell…’evolution is the mechanism for evolution’ duhhhhhhhhh
the republicans started as a third party…duhhhhhhhh jackass
oh and chappy-boy, I support CONSERVATIVE republicans…I’ll support a CONSERVATIVE democrat…duhhhhhhhh
I didn’t say there weren’t any examples, sweetie. But your answer is hilarious in the same way the new GOP website shows what a diverse party it was back in the 1800′s. Do you have any examples from this century (or the last)?
Good for you! You get a cookie! Meanwhile, a Democrat is going to win a district that a Democrat has absolutely no business winning because you are splitting the vote. And you think that R is meaningless if he/she is not conservative enough? Tell me…do you think we would even be discussing a viable health care bill if the Speaker of the House had an R after his name?(you know…the guy that would be elected by a bunch of other people with Rs after their name) .
do you have any evidence of intelligence there honey pie? huh sugar plum?
who cares? if the republican would win it would be the same as the democrat!! DUHHHHHHH. Unlike the way you slavishly bend over for the democrats, (and its REAL OBVIOUS) I don’t for the republicans.
shazam, you figured it out there gomer!!! good job!!!
lets see we had senior drug benefits, ‘no child left behind’ massive spending increases with republicans…do yeah it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
So I’ll take that as a “No” to my question. You go right on ahead and keep splittin’ that vote. Nothing would make liberals like me happier. Well, except maybe to eat your children’s souls served over a bed of frisee and arugula. But other than that, nothing would make us happier.
The sad part is we have been lied to by the GOP. For a decade now they have told us the were “conservative.” Yet how many GOP senators support every single Democrat initiate in open borders, cap and trade, raising taxes, health care, etc?
And now socialist, ambulance-chasing lawyer like Chappy is going to lecture Conservatives about why they ought to vote Republican? What a joke!
Stay tuned! It will probably get even more entertaining!
Folks like Chappy already nominated the last Republican candidate for President. They won’t be comfortable until they nominate all congressional candidates too!
I will sweety!! yeah I think you deserve the results of your policies…ever been to detroit? coming soon to a city (country) near you.
hope you enjoy your new dentist, Dr. PLIARS.
oh and I do hope you live in NYC or DC….you’ll get the full benefits of our foreign policy!! boom.
the GOP has discredited ‘conservatism’ in the minds of the average voter.
thats why it will be so hard for conservatism to ever come back in this country…
with friends like that…