EPA lawyers: Cap-and-trade bill is “fatally flawed”
The EPA has two more whistleblowers in its own ranks calling out the agency’s flawed agenda and the cap-and-trade monstrosity.
You’ll recall the case of Alan Carlin, whose research critical of the outdated data used in EPA’s “public endangerment finding” on greenhouse gases was stifled by EPA.
EPA lawyers Laurie Williams and Allan Zabel have also stepped forward. They are critical from a very different angle, but reach the same basic conclusion: The “solutions” backed by EPA and Congress are “fatally flawed.”
Via Heritage, here’s a YouTube video the couple made outlining their complaints:
Despite including a caveat that the opinions expressed were their own and not the agency’s, the couple faces possible disciplinary action by the EPA.
While demanding the video be yanked (others have re-posted it online), the EPA disingenuously claims it tolerates all dissenting views of its employees.
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Categories: cap and trade, global warming
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Like that’s going to matter. Nothing to see here, move along.
it’s a hoax…it’s nothing more than a ponzi scheme and those at the top will become even richer…al “hot air” gore stands to make even more than he is now touting this flawed science….and us lowly citizens will pay the ultimate price for it….
Just another inconvenient truth for those who want to govern by “feelings” instead of facts.
Obama is the pied piper and the liberal left the rats.
This is why we need reform throughout all government agencies, from CIA and the EPA to The State Department and beyond. The growing partisan use of these agencies by the Democrats and their sympathizers is unconscionable. They are to implement the intent of the President and Congress but not through lies, intimidation and falsification of data. If they cannot honestly justify something, they need to tell their bosses and the public.
Even when the Republicans were in power, lower level lefty apparachiks were leaking secrets and working against the Administration as hard as they could – so… heads I win, tails you lose.
You will love this:
“Here’s how: The bills require a federal declaration of a “climate emergency” if world greenhouse gas levels reach 450 parts per million. Guess what? The Pacific Northwest National Lab says it is a virtual certainty that level will be reached within a few months. The bill then requires the president to “direct all Federal agencies to use existing statutory authority to take appropriate actions…to address shortfalls” in achieving needed greenhouse gas reductions.”
“When Vitter asked EPA Administrator what would be done in such a situation, she refused to say. So it must be asked: Would the president be empowered to do things like nationalize whole sectors of industry, ban coal use, restrict private automobile use, or whatever else the “emergency” requires?”
County, State, and Federal inquiries into any and all possible records pertaining to Laurie Williams and Allan Zabel by “friendlly” Democrat operatives commencing in 7, 6, 5, 4…….
Incorrect political thought must be thoroughly investigated and the “extremists” who communicate these “lies” must be exposed for the “enemies of the people” that they are.
While we’re on the subject of the growing partisan use of these agencies by the Democrats and their sympathizers, check this out:
No surprise.
So according to them the answer to a bad government plan is another bad government plan, carbon fees with rebates.
Free market be damned.
Misscheryl,
My comment of 11:15 was NOT tongue in cheek. I expect them to do exactly what I wrote.
More evidence that we need to dramatically curtail the power of the FedGov — they’re nothing but crooks. Their concern for “climate change” is like their concern for “health care”: both knowingly based on bogus premises, whose “solutions” are designed to make someone rich.
aaahh D’oh..refer to healthcare plan.
Fly – I expect it as well. Too late to stop this runaway train. See you in the camps.
whistleblowers: Two more people whose Fedzilla career is toast.
Fedzilla: incapable of honest dealings
EPA: A bad idea to start with and downhill from there. You might say “fatally flawed”.
For the present emergency honest people will not do well in government service-perhaps they never did. Our own Army can not, or will not, protect it’s people.
NOAA says this was the third coldest October on record. There goes their funding.
Exactly what I was thinking. So who is going to pay these carbon fees? The carbon fairy?
There isn’t anything the idiot liberals in Washington, DC want to impose upon us that isn’t “fatally flawed” in one way or another, either to itself or to the nation. I think hanging is too easy a punishment for that lot.
Good points are made. Their solution is not science based. If global warming is more a natural process than a man made one our shifting to non-carbon based energy will have little effect. The altenative sources of energy are not efficient nor reliable. If they were the free market would have adopted them. Global warming will not be controlled by any market manipulations.
OT Alert: Kaine denied clemency for Mohammed.
If you are in your bunk late at night and you here a snipping sound outside, move towards it quietly.
That will be me outside the fence with the wire cutters.
We’ll get you out of there.
Ayn Rand’s depiction of these “looters and brother-lovers” in Atlas Shrugged is amazing. The utter black-or-white difference between them and us is nearly spot-on, where the mindless, robotic enemies of freedom and liberty continue destroying all that is the source of wealth and production in the name of whatever touchy-feely cause of theirs that comes down the pike.
Albert Einstein had a name for the liberal’s unending attempts to fix something by repeating the same actions over and over again: INSANITY.
Although they are correct in stating the flaws with cap-n-trade, they continue the myth that “climate change” is man caused and can be dealt with. At least they are half right.
Better IMHO.
“The word ‘politics’ is derived from the word ‘poly’, meaning ‘many’, and the word ‘ticks’, meaning ‘blood sucking parasites’”. – Larry Hardiman
Thank God there are some honest people like these folks in the world politic, but they will be short lived. Others of genuine conscience will pop up and dissapear, but due the very nature of politics they will never become mainstream.
Military service is different. There are many people of courage and value who have risen to high positions.
Exposing the greedy left but proposing the replacement of the carbon credit rip off, fantasy with the carbon fee fantasy, fantasy.
Trading gas money for rebate money is a friction loss for feel good program that can’t make anything cheaper, efficient or more competitive plus the truth is green tech isn’t green, just differently polluting, except perhaps nuclear.
I question the carbon fees with rebates too. But this couple’s video points out to me how complicated this issue is IF we feel the need to do something about it and that’s another issue altogether. Anyway, I can’t see any politician wanting to think deeply enough to understand what this couple is saying.
FLY – YOU ARE MY HERO
I want a cleaner planet. I have looked into adding as many energy efficiencies into a home I am currently drawing up plans for. I have been unpleasantly surprised at exactly how expensive these efficiencies are.
Solar is very expensive upfront, so much so that many people installing solar install only enough to augment their energy usage, not replace it. Therefore they never reach that lauded payback of selling the energy back to the power company. Their are rebates and some incentives, but not enough.
Wind is a pipe dream unless you have a large, very large turbine. These small turbines you see are laughable. With wind, go big or go home, and if the wind is not blowing, oh well, you have a nice statue, hah.
Geo-thermal is probably the most interesting for and something everyone should consider. Depending on the size of your home, it can produce some dramatic savings in cooling, but like everything else is not cheap and is not something you can likely do yourself. It works off of a heat exchanger system, I’ll let you do your own research or let an actual engineer speak to the mechanics.
I am posting these for general info and to spark debate into what is actually out there. As I have seen friends and relatives age, their home energy costs are a huge concern and something we all must consider as we get closer to retirement.
Some other ideas I am planning on incorporating in my home plans are radiant floor heating and building with ICF’s (insulated concrete forms). These are two essentials as I see them. Another is that the basement will be 2/3rds or as much as 3/4 inset into a hill side to take advantage of that thermal effieicncy. Most people though are not building a new home and their largest return on investment could be made from the addition of energy efficient windows and caulk. Other upgrades such as energy efficient applainces have had bad bews recently as the labels may be overstating the actual efficiency.
The bottom line is that these wonderful things all cost a lot. And also none of them are going to move your car/truck/tractor one inch. As conservatives I have always thought we should lead the way in conserving, the liberals do it to save the planet, I do it to save my family money. I am cheap, proudly so. I pay for quality, but expect a return on my investment when I do so. I do not throw my money after returns on investment which will never appear. The government does enough of that for us.
Are there any other conservatives building their own homes using any of these techniques? Or something I left off this brief note. If so, please share your experiences so we can all learn from them. I am just in the planning stage, so am willing to read any thing I can to better prepare myself for the challenges ahead.
I priced out everything needed to run the house and have some left over to put back on the grid:
$40K. On a side note –
” Research teams at the Danish Golf Union have discovered it takes between 100 to 1,000 years for a golf ball to decompose naturally. A startling fact when it is also estimated 300 million balls are lost or discarded in the United States alone, every year. It seems the simple plastic golf ball is increasingly becoming a major litter problem.”
Oh the horror of it all.
GladzKravtz
To expound upon my comment, I applaud these two for speaking out, in what will be an undeniably bad career move. However, I still see them as a couple of dedicated greenies, who think that some form of government intervention is necessary to “fix” a problem that most of us here don’t think needs to be fixed.
So, 300 million golf balls times 1,000 years = 300 BILLION years for all the golf balls to decompose
The reason the number of lost balls has gone down to 300 million per year is that I haven’t played in a while….
So maybe we could recycle those golf balls into some type of bulding material.
Your numbers on the upfront cost are inline with what I have seen also. I saw one set of numbers as high as 60k installed. For a fully installed solar that would guarantee some payback.
With rebates that number comes down and the with payback brings your time to break even closer, but still years out. I have a long time frame in which to receive this payback, but still it is more than just upfront cost and time to reach that cost. You are also out hte opportunity cost and/or the earnings that money could be earning otherwise. Something most estimates I see never consider.
Seriously, those behind this cap and tax don’t believe there is an environmental problem to “fix” any more than we do.
I am building my own solar water heating system. It is designed on the MTD (modified trickle down) theory. I have a southern exposure and use propane gas so it is a no brainer. The costs of purchasing a system and having it installed are so high that the equipment would be obsolete before any payback was seen. That is why I DIY. No government subsidies should be used for these things.
Of course they don’t
They are not stupid, they see a way to create a market where one does not exist now. It is another federal government ponzi scheme.
You try it and you go to jail. They do it and then they write each other up for the great work they are doing.
And pocket the millions early adopters usually do.
Travler good `catch, I left off the water system and that is an area where there are some interesting products such as the one you mentioned.
I have been studying the state of art manifold system my nephew installed in his house. It is a work of art.
Much of mine will be DIY also. Along with some family members. And a lot of beer and barbeque
the biggest problem I’ve encountered in researching my solar water project is all the brain dead liberals preaching to you about global warming. If you can wade through this crap you might find some good information but it gets real frustrating.
Exactly Collegeguy – they know a money making scheme when they make one up.
I did an experiment:
I have a small farm and went to ever agency in the book to see what I could get from the Feds. What it ended up being was, I was not a minority, I had to have migratory animal, bird, fish studies done to determine what impact the system would have, not to mention the Gov coming whenever they wanted to ensure I was using the Solar Power correctly – all at a cost to me. In the end it just proved that all this talk from our dear leaders is just talk.
Almost everything I have seen from the government and other agencies concerning these things, come in the form of rebates after the fact.
I have seen examples of farmers getting singnificant portions of their costs refunded on fencing and hay buildings, etc.
There are other numerous examples, and they change almost every year.
Collegeguy, Traveler; I’ve done some research on the subject, too. It makes economic sense to build in energy saving systems. I have a nephew about to graduate with a master’s in architecture, and I’ve stressed to him the importance in coming years of incorporating passive solar, waste heat recovery, grey water and rain water use, etc. I hope to be in a position some day to take advantage myself.
I have a rain barrel and that’s about it. But it’s great and I plan to buy more.
Dexter I agree, I also think it is imperative we conservatives take an aggressive and educated approach to what works best and get our at in the ring.
We can reduce our long term energy costs and save that money for our family. Not just send it to some government agency or energy coop.
And maintain and possibly raise our own energy usage without the inflationary cost of future public utilites. I know of no one who thinks home energy costs will be less in 20 – 30 years.
Pay now – Use and save later.
Government Rebates – a method whereby some are subsidized at the expense of “everybody else”. Government just can’t let the free market work.
I’ve never been golfing but I do dabble in humor from time to time and this is very funny.
There is a very good article in The American Thinker regarding this very subject of government rebates etc. concerning the politically correct energy.
November 06, 2009
U.K. Renewables Revolution Threatens Blackouts
I assure you that once the Gov. gets its power, its concerns will disappear. Just as we can’t get the BLM to take care of its erosion, drainage problems. We will not be able to get the government to take care of our health or pollution problems.
The more power they have, the less they will be concerned about its use.
Is it all those carbon offsets ManBearPig is selling?
ManBearPig need beating-get head on straight- then beat ManBearPig some more.
Carbon “offsets” has to be the biggest scam since the Pope started selling “indulgences.”
And what is the EPA talking about?
This couple explicitly stated that they opinions were their own and did not represent the EPA. Do officials at the EPA not understand English? They couldn’t have been more explicit in stating that these were their own opinions and did not represent the opinions of the EPA!
This is simply “Big Brother” squashing people who defy green orthodoxy!
I hope these two people have brushed up their resumes because this is a clear RGE/CLM!
Ya think?
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
So now I need to listen to a pair of lawyers who STILL are shilling this nonsense that we can effect “climate change” one way or the other? Give me a break. Like has already been said, replacing one horrible gov. plan with another horrible gov plan. But I think this second plan these guys will get behind since they are already on board and THEY can make the millions instead of the “Cap and Trade” thieves.
I think both the current idiotic plan and what these two have come up with are both stupid and a waste of money. Where are the new nuclear reactors? Now THAT I can get behind.
In a hundred years I hope mankind will look back at these idiots, like we currently look back at the snake oil salesmen who sold “potions” to cure everything from baldness, to errectile dysfunction to weakness of the joints all with one bottle of dirty water.
oldcollegeguy: http://massiehouse.blogspot.com/ – is happy to chat about his experiences.
Just got back from the DMV
Great link
That is the idea. To through real world solutions, live off the grid or as close as possible.
I have seen the the wood fired water boiler system in work and it works great. Although definately better in rural applications, due to size and wood requirements.
Many wood fired boilers tend to smoke a lot or I would get one myself…oh wait, I can’t because of the Oregon regulations.
I checked out your website and I’m impressed. A very large project indeed.
Bottom line on all these features is that they are not cheap.
I hear people spouting off all the time about the wonderful attributes of each one individually, and it is not that they are wrong, it is just the real benefit is if you can save real money. Today.
Another area not often discussed is if you are going to stay in the home you incorporate them into. If you are looking at 30 years or more in the home, sure you have time. If you are likely to be somewhere else in 5 years, well not so much.
The best time to incorporate them is obviously when you build. So the obvious place to really make a difference is by getting large home builders to adopt these methods. I think they will, slowly, adopt some techniques. Radiant flooring seems ot be the easiest for home builders to adopt early. I do not see major homebuilders concerning themselves with solar or wind. Community standards might be another area where you see large groups encouraging geo-thermal on new developments.
Likely though we are still at least 10-20 years from large scale adoption of these systems as the norm.
Although I cannot see why new city/state/federal buildings are not all using geo-thermal now going forward.
Something that won’t change the minds of a few students who are sleeping in a tent until the end of the semester in Dec to protest the schools use of dirty energy by refusing to shelter in a building that uses “dirty energy.” Enjoy the Snow, morons.
I smell a set-up here. The EPA is probably all for this video, (feigning action against them to make it ‘look’ good), because they know crap n’ tax isn’t going to make it through the Senate. So they need something else
and the idea of simply taxing fossil fuel energy directly would be more than welcomed by EPA, Markey and Waxman. It merely cuts Al Gore and banks out of the loop so they’ll be the only ones truly ‘outraged’ about it. We get the SHAFT whether it’s this lame idea or crap n’ tax.
Totally unlike Dr. Carlin’s skeptical stance, these two are just as moronic as James Hansen and the rest at the EPA who ~think~ human CO2 has anything to do with global temperatures – without even the slightest hint of measurable PROOF to back it up.
I demand scientific PROOF that CO2 has ANY measurable impact on temperature and that there be ZERO legislation until such proof is presented and accepted as valid by the world scientific body at large, (not just the government and UN hacks whose pay checks rely on AGW.)
Stop this madness – CO2 is the number one BENFICIAL GAS on the planet and more of it would be better for all of us.
Government Health Care, Cap and Trade along with comprehensive immigration are too much for the freedom lovers of America to take. All this Marxist crap will result in either a coup or a revolt headed by the true Americans, as I predicted a year ago after numb nuts was elected.
Keep your powder dry, don’t forget to stock up on necessities, you will need them all.
I too, see a revolution coming. It will be nasty.
This whole crap&tax/global warming thing is nothing more than a money laundering scheme, one that will also shift the USA into dependency upon a world government.
Next topic…
This video was very informative and both of them are to be commended for their tenacity.
BUT…
Why, after listening to them, do I feel like I’m about to don a khaki jumpsuit and be put to work by the Dharma Initiative?
Lord Monkton wrote: