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Comments

1. #1
   On December 21st, 2009 at 2:16 pm, ThackerAgency said:

   Basically they make Medicaid the new ‘public option’ and they put the costs onto the states.

   Ultimately, this plan takes 500B from Medicare, and 500B in taxes over the next 10 years and pays for private health insurance for Americans.

   It’s a subsidy for the Insurance Industry that didn’t need a bailout.

2. #2
   On December 21st, 2009 at 2:24 pm, Hangfire said:

   My home was broken into a few years ago, at night.
   My truck was stolen two years ago, at night.
   My government is plotting to steal from me and my children, also at night.

3. #3
   On December 21st, 2009 at 2:28 pm, TigerLady said:

   Hey, how about these “fat cats”, President Obama?

   Yet again, Saul Alinksy. Fortunately for The Won, the State Run Media won’t ask “Which Fat Cats?”. Turns out it’s any fat cat of the opposing view.

4. #4
   On December 21st, 2009 at 2:38 pm, Jeff2161 said:

   Democrat response: Crickets chirping.

   What ? Follow our own laws ? Look, we don’t follow the Constitution either so, screw ya’ all.

5. #5
   On December 21st, 2009 at 2:40 pm, Flyoverman said:

   What goodies did Harkin get? What slime. And I live in his state.

6. #6
   On December 21st, 2009 at 2:40 pm, stillontheroad said:

   This is my definition of Fascism, in a nutshell. What is happening now. This is no longer a representative Government that died the night of this so called vote. This is rule by fiat.
   This opens the door to whatever these POS’s think is good for us, and that door is wide open.

7. #7
   On December 21st, 2009 at 2:51 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

   I like ice cream. Is there any provision for free ice cream in this bill? I mean, how much could that cost? Everybody loves ice cream!

8. #8
   On December 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm, Uplander said:

   Why should we pretend we can learn?

   “The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn’t want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.”
   Cicero, 55 BC
   Roman author, orator, & politician (106 BC – 43 BC)

9. #9
   On December 21st, 2009 at 3:04 pm, RedDog said:

   The complicity of the Media, public education, and government repression (working in concert) makes this all possible. Classic Marxist strategy. The world has fallen for the biggest confidence game in human history. Death by slow asphyxiation.

10. #10
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:05 pm, RedDog said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm, Uplander said:
    Why should we pretend we can learn?

    Nice quote.

11. #11
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:09 pm, Boomer said:

    I’ve been watching the stock market today and scratching my head on how it managed to jump up just 100 pts right now led by Health Care Insurance. Hmmmmmm! I do believe we have seen the real beneficiary of this dirty back room deal passed in the dead of night. Fat cats indeed “dear leader” fat cats indeed.

12. #12
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:22 pm, mdt said:

    Boomer
    Right now I have a health insurance plan form my employer with a very high deductible+co-pay since **fortunately** my family uses the health services very little. Even then I pay out of pocket $5000 and my employer another $15,000 I think.

    Now with this ‘reform’,I cannot buy such a plan. I must have a plan with no deductibles and co-pays even though I can afford to pay upto $10,000 out of my own pocket if my family happens to need such services. Intead my premiums will double to $40k per year and I will continue to use an average of less than $1000 of services per year. Bingo, profits for insurance company *from me* went from $19k to $39k.

    This is a very SWEET deal for health insurers.

13. #13
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:24 pm, mdt said:

    And I might add my employer will cut back on my direct compensation by $20k in various ways to make up for the extra insurance cost.

14. #14
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:30 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:24 pm, mdt said:

    Green shoots!!! It’s the “new normal”. Up is down. Borrowing our way out of debt. Spending our way out of spending problem. Taxing our way to prosperity. Attacking the unemployment problem with more unemployment. Helping the consumer recover by taxing his money away.

    It’s a brave new world!

15. #15
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:32 pm, Truesoldier said:

    You all miss the point. When Obama was speaking of transparency he did not mean “transparency” like most people did he meant “trans-parentcy” or the parentage of transgender people. You know he would be fine if there was planty of that in the world.

16. #16
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:33 pm, Rogue Cheddar said:

    It’s a brave new world!

    I don’t know, I’m kinda skeered!

17. #17
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:37 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:33 pm, Rogue Cheddar said:

    Don’t be skeered. We’re going to be the healthiest unemployed people in history. Besides, with the long lines we will now have to snake through, who has time for a job?

18. #18
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pm, flenser said:

    Can we make Doc Zero a regular on Hot Air please? And let AP go his Charles Johnson route on his own site?

19. #19
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:47 pm, flenser said:

    Harkin also cheers Demcare’s “access to safe places to engage in physical activity.”

    I’m not sure I even want to know what he means by that.

20. #20
    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    Eric Erickson of RedState nails it again on challenging the phony GOP vow to fight this to the end.

    …. the GOP threw in the towel in the beginning.

    They chose to message, not to fight. And now they want to go home before Christmas.

    Exactly. These phony Republicans are merely playing their acting roles in the grand Kabuki Play where they always lose by one vote regardless of which party is in control.

21. #21
    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:01 pm, RedDog said:

    I think I’ll just get colon cancer and die. Porterhouse steaks and single malt scotch until the money runs out. Yehah!

22. #22
    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm, flenser said:

    Eric Erickson of RedState nails it again on challenging the phony GOP vow to fight this to the end.

    He’s corrected it and admitted he was wrong.

    These phony Republicans are merely playing their acting roles in the grand Kabuki Play

    I don’t know what more you expect them to do. If sixty Dems are willing to say “screw public opinion” and write off their own seats, then there is little anybody can do about it.

23. #23
    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:08 pm, RedDog said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm, Pasadena Phil said:
    … These phony Republicans are merely playing their acting roles in the grand Kabuki Play where they always lose by one vote regardless of which party is in control.

    Bush, Dole, Ford, et al, all thought they could play genteel politics with these people. But they always seemed to bring knives to a gun fight. They just don’t understand how the game is played, or maybe they do but are content to be sellouts.

    We are far removed from the Nathan Hales and Patrick Henrys.

24. #24
    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:19 pm, RedDog said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm, flenser said:
    … I don’t know what more you expect them to do. If sixty Dems are willing to say “screw public opinion” and write off their own seats, then there is little anybody can do about it.

    True. But they could have put together persuasive and persistent rebuttals for the historical record. The efforts of the GOP leadership were tepid at best. Like accused men who knew their protests could not move the judge.

    Good soldiers always try to make an effort at a rear guard action or fighting retreat. And if trapped and all you have for ammunition is a full bladder then at least stand upwind of your enemy.

25. #25
    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:35 pm, Major O said:

    Exactly. These phony weak Republicans are merely playing their acting roles in the grand Kabuki Play where they always lose by one vote regardless of which party is in control.

    Amen.

    True. But they could have put together persuasive and persistent rebuttals for the historical record. The efforts of the GOP leadership were tepid at best. Like accused men who knew their protests could not move the judge.

    Good soldiers always try to make an effort at a rear guard action or fighting retreat. And if trapped and all you have for ammunition is a full bladder then at least stand upwind of your enemy.

    And amen.

    I don’t know what more you expect them to do. If sixty Dems are willing to say “screw public opinion” and write off their own seats, then there is little anybody can do about it.

    I hear you but I’m still left wondering: how is it the Left always manages to either forestall a conservative agenda, peel it back or even advance their own no matter how many seats they have? How is it they always manage to make conservative judicial appointees fail or barely make it but theirs are always slid in?? It can’t just be that the Dems are so, so evil and wicked and the GOP so pure they can’t meet them blow for blow.

    We need Palin-level fire in GOP elected officials because if you go into DC tepid, you’ll inevitably take on the character of that town which is liberal by default. That much governmental power in the hands of individuals is always a pressure towards tyranny and corruption and this bill is Exhibit A proof of that charge.

26. #26
    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:38 pm, Flyoverman said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 3:47 pm, flenser said:

    Harkin also cheers Demcare’s “access to safe places to engage in physical activity.”

    I’m not sure I even want to know what he means by that.

    Maybe Cash for Clunkers is related to Demcare…. Think about it.

27. #27
    On December 21st, 2009 at 5:01 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm, flenser said:

    Eric Erickson of RedState nails it again on challenging the phony GOP vow to fight this to the end.

    He’s corrected it and admitted he was wrong.

    Re-read the post. I don’t see where he “admitted he was wrong”. The GOP senators were planning on leaving, denied it publicly but were eventually shamed into staying on. Big difference.

    These guys, particularly McCain, were fighting for a similar gutting of Medicare last year. Believe me, they are still Assistant Democrats regardless of their public posturing.

    In baseball, teams that keep losing by one run are widely regarded as losers. The GOP always seem to lose by one vote on landmark legislation regardless of which party is in control.

    I don’t know what more you expect them to do. If sixty Dems are willing to say “screw public opinion” and write off their own seats, then there is little anybody can do about it.

    The younger senators should depose the leadership and rally behind Jim Demint. The current GOP leadership loses and loses and loses with their big tent strategy of standing for nothing while waging war against conservatives like me. Enough already. We are not going through that again in 2010. WE aren’t the problem. YOU are.

28. #28
    On December 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pm, walterc said:

    flenser said:

    I don’t know what more you expect them to do. If sixty Dems are willing to say “screw public opinion” and write off their own seats, then there is little anybody can do about it.

    There weren’t 60 Dems, there were 58 Dems and 2 Independants. I still don’t know what they gave Lieberman for his vote. Last week they were calling for his recall his wife’s ouster from the Komen Breast Cancer organization. Is that all it takes to get him to cave?

29. #29
    On December 21st, 2009 at 5:17 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    Here’s an interesting argument from The American Spectator.

    The Republicans never had the opportunity to pass something as sweeping as the Democratic health care bill. Their majorities were too narrow, arguably even after the 2004 elections, when they were soon adrift as a result of Iraq and Katrina in any event. But it’s equally true that the Republicans never worked very hard to popularize the idea that a free-market alternative existed in the first place. When they did pass big health care legislation, initiatives that reinforced the Democratic health care vision — Kennedy-Kassebaum, SCHIP, and the Medicare prescription drug benefit — loomed larger than modest expansions of health savings accounts and the drug benefit’s Medicare Advantage component.

    And we want the same GOP leadership (Assistant Democrats) to lead the charge in 2010? Gag me.

30. #30
    On December 21st, 2009 at 5:45 pm, flenser said:

    But they could have put together persuasive and persistent rebuttals for the historical record.

    They persuaded the public. What more do you want? In every other case that would have been all it took. The Dems must figure that they can carry out a putsch which is worth mere things such as what the voters think.

31. #31
    On December 21st, 2009 at 5:46 pm, flenser said:

    There weren’t 60 Dems, there were 58 Dems and 2 Independants.

    The two indpendents are left-wingers. Liberman would still officialy be a Dem if he could. I don’t understand why some on the right swoon over him.

32. #32
    On December 21st, 2009 at 5:47 pm, flenser said:

    The GOP senators were planning on leaving, denied it publicly but were eventually shamed into staying on.

    Believing everything you read in the media?

33. #33
    On December 21st, 2009 at 5:54 pm, flenser said:

    The current GOP leadership loses and loses and loses with their big tent strategy of standing for nothing while waging war against conservatives like me.

    The GOP lost this healthcare vote sometime back in 2006. That’s when they were making all the stupid decisions which which gave the left a huge majority now.

    McConnell sux, no doubt about that. He was carrying water for shamnesty not too long ago and I called for a new leader then. But in this particlar instance people are confused about what’s going on. Given all our RINO’s it’s a mircle he has kept all the Pubbies on board.

    As for Redstate – don’t trust them. All the bigshots there were amnesty supporters. Then when it failed they tried to act like they deserved credit. If there’s going to be a conservative comeback, Redstate won’t be leading it.

34. #34
    On December 21st, 2009 at 6:05 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    Flenser: there is no way to rebut your last two comments. Focus on what is being discussed. You are implying that I am impressionable in the first comment and trying to undercut my point with a statement that you don’t trust RedState. Are you channeling Professor Irwin Corey?

    “Professor, why do you where tennis shoes?”

    PC: “Let me answer that by addressing the question in two parts. First, why? A question that has coursed through the history of mankind since time immemorial…….blah, blah, blah… Second, do I where tennis shoes? Certainly!”

    Try to parse your comments and explain to me why I should care that you think I am naive and that you don’t trust RedState.

35. #35
    On December 21st, 2009 at 6:14 pm, flenser said:

    Flenser: there is no way to rebut your last two comments.

    Like there is some way to rebut any of yours? In any case it would be trivial to rebut my last two comments, if they were incorrect. They can easily be shown to be false, if they are false.

    Focus on what is being discussed.

    You are all over the map here. Don’t yell at me for following you.

    You are implying that I am impressionable in the first comment

    I am saying that your entire “argument”, such as it is, depends on believing one sentence at Roll Call. Which it does.

    Try to parse your comments and explain to me why I should care that you think I am naive and that you don’t trust RedState.

    I’m not interested in what you care about, and if you thought that I was then your usual reading comprehension problems are at work. I’m only interested in debunking your mistaken ideas. Your tender feelings are none of my concern.

36. #36
    On December 21st, 2009 at 6:52 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    Flenser: you think and argue like a child.

37. #37
    On December 21st, 2009 at 7:03 pm, flenser said:

    I guess I should argue using one liner ad hominems, like grownups do, instead of these silly facts and reason.

38. #38
    On December 21st, 2009 at 7:10 pm, happyscrapper said:

    Go, flenser!! Pasadena has a huge hangup when it comes to the republican party. He want them all thrown out. Pasadena…we get it!! WE.GET.IT. So enough already. You are growing tiresome with your constant badgering on the same topic. Move on.

39. #39
    On December 21st, 2009 at 7:26 pm, Kingfish said:

    Said it before, and it is still apt. Politicians speak with a forked tongue. The one sure way to counteract this is to forcefully (in no way meaning insurrection) remind them of WHO they work for. Incumbents blowing in the wind which do not reflect their constituents need to be replaced.

40. #40
    On December 21st, 2009 at 9:46 pm, Republicanvet said:

    Update 2:37pm Eastern. Harkin on the floor is proudly touting his special Iowa Cash for Cloture deal. Pivots to “health care is a right” propaganda. Touts government-subsidized “wellness programs.” For the first time in history, he crows, seniors will have free “personalized prevention plans” under Medicare.

    The Dung Heap speaks.

    I bet seniors will get all kinds of personal prevention. Prevented from seeing this doctor and that doctor, and eventually, personalized life prevention plans.

41. #41
    On December 21st, 2009 at 10:52 pm, JustAThought said:

    Barring some kind of natural disaster in Washington, this bill will pass. Count on it.

    Republicans in the House and Senate gave up the right to complain long ago. There hasn’t been an election campaign run by a Republican (RINO or not) that really called out the thievery of Democrats and incumbent Republicans in my memory.

    Repubs allow the Dems to attack, demean, libel, distort the truth and outright lie about the Republican opponents yet make no effort to fight fire with fire. As soon as one of the sissy-Repubs dares to take off his gloves, the Dems cry foul and the sissy-Repub cries and apologizes. Most of the races I’ve seen and read about shows that Repubs are trying to win gunfights with knives and sticks.

    When will conservatives learn to simply tell the darn truth? Tell the truth about themselves but more importantly, tell the whole truth about their opponents. If he was a mysogynistic pig, SAY SO. Back up what you say. If he sold out his constituents on some personal pork bill, call him out.

    Finally, for the sake of our grandchildren, our country and our very way of life, get rid of the RINO’s. They are like a cancer in our party, killing it from inside, rotting away the body and using up vital resources.

    Spend the time, contribute some money, learn about your candidates, be an informed voter.

42. #42
    On December 21st, 2009 at 10:58 pm, tbear44 said:

    Update 2:50pm Eastern. How far we’ve sunk: Harkin’s harangue has turned into a plaintive whine about hos school recess is too short.

    I alwys felt that was true as well. Of course that was 45 years ago.

43. #43
    On December 21st, 2009 at 11:29 pm, Cosmo said:

    Holy schneikes…I watched Harkin this morning. I couldn’t get past the “I lost a bet” outfit he had on.

    That man is unfit to serve. He’s mad. He invoked the name of Ted Kennedy more times than Mary Jo Kopechne did as she sank to the bottom at Chappaquiddick.

    Disgusting.

44. #44
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 12:31 am, pookysgirl said:

    I don’t tell people that Harkin is my Senator.

    I tell them I’m a proud constituent of Grassley’s and hope they don’t make the connection.

45. #45
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 am, dan708 said:

    I’ve become convinced that Dems no longer care if they get re-elected. For them, it’s all about socializing medicine, something they clearly believe in with a religious fervor. They know that once it is in place, it will take a lot for future Republican Congresses to dismantle it.

46. #46
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 9:07 am, jangar said:

    I’ve become convinced that Dems no longer care if they get re-elected

    Why should they? The afterlife of a Democrat politician is a lobbyist position making 10x the salary of his former job.

47. #47
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 am, cheapseat said:

    i am convinced we need 535 new congress critters, or we will continue the move towards a third revolution. 1) from england. 2) war of northern aggression. 3) war of …. but the real problem as i see it is that we will still have a justice system which is niether just nor rational, but ideological and a tool of the political wing.

48. #48
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 10:27 am, cabrerski said:

    On December 21st, 2009 at 4:01 pm, RedDog said:
    Porterhouse steaks and single malt scotch until the money runs out. Yehah!

    At home, we call that the cabrerski diet with a strong emphasis on the single malt after reading Congress’s daily reports.

49. #49
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 am, cabrerski said:

    Harkin on the floor is proudly touting his special Iowa Cash for Cloture deal. Pivots to “health care is a right” propaganda.

    Still scratching my head on this whole “rights” wording. Until now, I was under the impression that rights were God-given and inalienable. I did not realize that it meant that we had to give paper bill that say “In God We Trust” to illegals.

50. #50
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 10:36 am, cabrerski said:

    illegal aliens, that is…

    caffiene check, very low…

51. #51
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 12:50 pm, FirstSkirt said:

    Thank you, Just a Thought – your post was excellent! This is not a game – this is OUR COUNTRY we’re talking about here. We can never recover from the Democrats craziness and Republican complicity (their esteemed collegues)if we do not get them out of office. We have to start right here, right now, or we will be a debtor nation run by worse thugs than we have now.

52. #52
    On December 22nd, 2009 at 5:49 pm, ITookTheRedPill said:

    Let’s hear some Democrats start talking about the inalienable right to LIFE.

    With all of their talk about how people are dying, let’s hear them start talking about how many people have died (had their lives ended by) abortion.