Yes, America still operates the dangerous Diversity Visa Lottery
Eight years ago, I reported on the State Department’s idiotic Diversity Visa Lottery program and called for it to be abolished in Invasion. Why, I asked, are we leaving homeland security to random chance in the wake of September 11? (Column reprinted below).
You can read all about the program on the State Department website here.
Well, we continue to rely on Lady Luck today. In fact, the shamnesty-peddlers’ latest bill would expand the Diversity Visa Lottery program — which currently hands out 50,000 golden ticket diversity visas blindly to applicants from “underrepresented” regions. Those regions include many jihadi-friendly strongholds. Like Yemen — which has received a total of 1,011 diversity visas so far. And Saudi Arabia. Egypt. Syria. Sudan. Libya.
Raise your hands: Who thinks Powerball-style vetting by Foggy Bottom bureaucrats is a good idea?
Janet Clownitano? Hillary? President Barack “We will never rest?” Obama? Anyone?
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In other State Department news, our guardians on the front line have finally gotten around to revoking the Crotch Bomber’s visa.
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Deadly diversity, dumb program
by Michelle Malkin
Creators Syndicate
July 20, 2002
In the drawer of dumb, post-September 11 immigration ideas, the State Department’s Diversity Visa Lottery program sits near the top of the heap. What could be more out of touch with the national security goals of the War on Terror than giving away visas randomly to thousands of people from the Middle East to fulfill a politically correct social agenda?
Nearly 55,000 lucky lottery applicants and their family members qualify for permanent residency visas (green cards) every year, which put them on the path to American citizenship ahead of millions of other foreigners patiently waiting to come to this country. The visa lottery was championed by Sen. Ted Kennedy and signed into law by President George H. W. Bush in 1990 to admit more “underrepresented” immigrant minorities into the U.S. Although originally intended to give a leg up to Irish immigrants, most of the winners are now from non-Western countries-including several terrorist-sponsoring and terrorist-friendly nations.
How many lives have been sacrificed at the altar of diversity through this immigration set-aside program? We now know of at least two casualties. One of those who hit the visa lottery jackpot was Hala Hadayet, wife of Egyptian immigrant Hesham Mohamed Hadayet-the gunman who killed two people at Los Angeles International Airport on July 4th. Hadayet should have been deported from this country six years ago. After entering the country legally in 1992 on a six-month visa, he overstayed illegally and then filed a petition for permanent residency. An INS spokesman told the Orange County Register over the weekend that the reasons for Hadayet’s rejection were “unclear.” The agency initiated deportation proceedings, but as in hundreds of thousands of cases, nothing every came of it. In the meantime, Hadayet’s wife put in an application for the visa lottery. She won, and so did her family. Both legal immigrants from abroad and illegal aliens currently evading the law inside our country are allowed to apply; winners can bring their spouses and children under 21.
There is no fee to enter the visa lottery. There isn’t even a government form. Applicants simply mail a photo, biographical information, and a signature on a plain sheet of paper and wait for the computer-generated drawing results. Losers can keep applying every year. The only eligibility rules are a clean criminal record (other than violating our borders and overstaying visas, which don’t count as crimes to our cotton-headed immigration authorities), a clean bill of health (easily faked), and a high school diploma/equivalent or two years of work experience (easily faked).
The diversity visa lottery program was a bad idea before September 11 and July 4. At a time when people from around the world continue to seek asylum, claim refugee status, and emigrate to America legally, it is absurd that our government still fells compelled to run a lottery to “ensure diversity” of the immigrant population. It is even more outrageous that the program is open to illegal aliens who continue to flout our laws. The visa lottery is an immigration entitlement program based on the luck of the draw and political whims-rather than on our national interest.
How many more Hesham Hayadets are lurking among us? Among those who drew winning numbers in the most recent visa lottery, whose results were announced by the State Department last month, were 1,551 individuals from Hadayet’s native Egypt; 38 from terrorist hijacker-spawning Saudi Arabia; and 2,259 from Iraq, Iran, Sudan, Libya, and Syria-all official state sponsors of terrorism. The next lottery drawing is planned for next fall. Blinded by deadly diversity worship, our government has no plans to bar al Qaeda strongholds from the lottery.
We continue to leave homeland defense to chance.
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Any of the 9/11 terrorists, Richard Reid, and the underwear bomber easily meet the application requirements.
Thanks for pointing out Michelle, that we remain Stuck on Stupid.
That’s probably the most ignorant thing I’ve ever heard of. When did the safety of our country become a game? Why are our elected officials a joke? Americans should take a long look in the mirror and figure out what kind of country they really want because this politically correct socialist crap is getting people killed and destroying us.
Underware bomber is eligible again. His prior visa was revoked today.
The US Federal Government is America’s greatest enemy bar none. The States need to invoke RICO against the federal bureaucracy. Dang.
Actually he’s probably eligible for refugee status under the religious and/or political persecution in his home country rule. I’m sure his Dad would at least kick his a@# if he goes back to Nigeria. Jeopardizing his U.S. foreign aid scam like that.
And given the actions of the Obama Administration in the Black Panther case (they dismissed after they won), I’d be surprised if they convict him. Probably dismiss for lack of evidence or some such nonsense.
Only an imbecile like the late and not-so-great kennedy could conceive such an idiotic plan which is then approved by a liberal republican, Bush Sr. We need to restrict immigration to reasonable levels and from nations whose culture is similar to ours (ie Western countries), and stop basing it on PC clap trap. Freaking idiots running our government will ruin this country if not get us all killed first. Oh, and IMHO, no muslim should be allowed to immigrate here, period. If that makes me a bigot, then so be it. My survival instinct trumps my do-gooder instinct I suppose.
No way. I loves me some Ethiopian, Middle Eastern and South East Asian restaurants!
Off topic
Mrs. Soap is 50 today. She will kill me for broadcasting that!
OT
As an American I someday dream of getting the services non-Americans are handed out so freely at my expense
…UGH
As an American I dream of someday getting the services that are handed out to non-Americans so freely at my expense.
I should learn me some english.
Absolutely correct.
Our biggest problem is that the false, America-hating do-gooder instinct of those in power is holding a gun (governemnt power, remember) to the head of our survival instinct.
Ethiopian food? Really? Can’t say I tried it but have to go with my gut on this one. No thanks. I have to believe with the overly generous immigration policies we have had over the past 40+ years, there is no shortage of ethnic restaurants from any group. Besides, if the demand was there, some smart entrepreneur would learn to cook the desired ethnic food and make a killing.
We’re supposed to be at war, right? So how come we don’t have a immigration/visa system that reflects this:
1. End the Visa Waiver program.
2. Require every non-citizen entering the United States to go through the following process to obtain an entry visa:
2a. Is not from an Islamic country, and has not been to an Islamic country since November 4, 1979.
2b. Undergo a thorough background/security check, including providing fingerprints, retinal scans and a DNA sample.
2c. Have a specific, legitimate and clearly-defined purpose for entering the country. And no, “tourism”, “visiting family/friends” and “education” is not a legitimate purpose.
2d. Have a unique Named Sponsor for the duration of time in the United States.
If anything, one of Bush’s greatest blunders post-9/11 was not immediately revoking all visas and green cards and putting the above common-sense entry restrictions into place post-haste.
(And, yes, I know: “The military is at war. America is at the mall”, and all that…)
Ethiopian is delicious. Kind of like very very spicy Indian curry that you sop up with a spongy bread.
Vegetarian friendly too.
Diverse restaurants – buy a ticket and travel, or learn to cook it yourself.
Withdraw welfare/social benefits and you’ll see a huge drop in immigration. Withdraw 50% of the H1-b visas and you’ll witness Americans going back to work. Scrutinize students and casual visitors from countries that support terrorism and you’ll witness far less incidents like 12/25/09.
Ah. I can’t stand curry and not a big fan of “very spicy” foods either. So no thanks still applies. But at least I learned something. I was guessing it was some kind of gruel (just kidding).
Better still, prohibit H1-b visas outright unless the U6 unemployment numbers are 5% or less for at least 5 consecutive years.
How many H1-b visas do you think get issued every year?
I have come to the point where I believe that people are trying to destabilize this country with measures such as this. Maybe Kennedy just meant the Irish, but the “advocacy” groups want anti-Americans to flood the zone and harm us.
Good work MM. Thanks for reminding us that our immigration policies truly are ‘stuck on stupid’ and often to more harm to the country than do good.
At the same time, how many other nations in the world also offer a ‘diversity visa’? The US can’t do everything for everyone.
Incidentally, NumbersUSA has long hammered on this topic and has, rightfully, lobbied hard for it’s elimination.
Amen. We are on the same page, as I believe are at least 100 million others. Now if we could only get the PC thumb sucking politicians to actually do the will of a vast swath of Americans we would be in much better shape.
IIRC, the current annual limit is 65k.
But, previous researchers have shown that USCIS often issues a larger actual number than the established legal annual limit. In the last few years, the actual number was in the range of 80k-90k per annum.
The DWI Killer, the bloated corpse of Ted Kennedy, continues to haunt this country he hated so much from the grave…
There is the concern letting in potential terrorist, though my concern is far more fundamental. Jobs. How can we continue to allow the population to grow with the current unemployment levels? That is not to dismiss the threat of terrorism, it is to allow unemployed Americans to get jobs.
Visas should be a function of the unemployment rate.
Saying America first, also means hiring Americans first.
During the internet boom, they raised the number. Now it is back down to 65,000. Cutting those back by 50% is NOT going to make a dent in unemployment.
Just a note of reminder… POLITICAL CORRECTNESS will be the DEATH of this GREAT COUNTRY… We all need to get our HEADS out of our HINEYS and vote these LIBTARDS to the retirement pastures, so we will no longer have to put up with their BS…
Right. At it’s peak, the H1-b levels reached about 200k/yr, and was allowed to gradually relax back down to it’s historic levels (if one can call 1990 ‘historic’).
Regarding domestic unemployment / H1-b, while don’t look as it being a panacea, I do think it might help — even if marginally. At the same time, if changing the policy makes little difference in overall unemployment, why NOT change the policy?
A better reason to change the H1-b policy should be to eliminate the rampant abuse in the program. Many of those 65k-80k visas issued are done with gross misrepresentation if not outright fraud.
There’ll be plenty of construction jobs/work for the ‘non-legal’ ones when the ‘legal’/lottery ones blow up shopping malls & synagogues.
I love Ethiopian/Eritrean food too, chaps, especially the ‘simple’ ones (like Fitfit, and Shiro wot). Did you like their honey wine (I think it’s called tej?)
I was fortunate to have Eritrean friends that cooked the stuff for me.
chap, only allowing in 65k per year ignores the problem of accumulation. if we only had 85k who lost their job last week, no problem, but they are added to the 7 million who have lost there jobs over the last 14 months. you can’t go to any university in america and find thousands of chinese workers here on visas. of course if you go to the nuclear physics department you would find those aliens were middle east visa recipients from iran etc. that is the problem. if americans aren’t getting into the post doc programs of universities, we have a huge problem down the road. we produce way too many lawyers, way too many teachers, way too many gubmint employees, but not enough engineers, scientists, and mathemeticians.
The visas are for three years. Maybe there are 200K, accounting for some carryover in years in which more were given.
Okay…fine. Cut them. But scapegoating foreigners here on that particular visa is not going to solve any underlying issue with unemployment.
Again, IIRC, about 50% of all approved H1-b petitions are for those only having a simple Bachelor degree. So, the true proportion of those allowed in using H1-b visas that represent the ‘best and brightest’ and those with incredibly rare skills in technical fields is a lot less than most actually know (to be clear, I do think there are a definite *some* that fit that bill – but should only include the highest educated in the most dire fields of need).
Secondly, there are many highly educated Americans that a). have already worked in such fields but have since moved on – either owing to ‘downsizing/outsourcing’ or other forced job displacement, or b). for the younger workers going into higher education, they simply ‘see the handwriting on the wall’ and go to a different field. Many Americans that might look at the prospect of a high-tech career and it’s later job prospects, pay levels, the competition from outsource / insourced workers, etc. and just say ‘no thanks’ and go do something else.
I’m not taking exception to your comments or arguing with them, just offering some qualification and greater detail to support them.
Well, we can make exceptions, as long as everyone is encouraged to assimilate and adapt to our values, required to learn and use english in public, be economically productive, be allowed no government handouts, and be encouraged to be fervantly loyal to their newly adopted homeland. And as for sponsoring family members, they too must follow the same guidelines and no elderly relatives unless they are fully financially cared for independently or by the sponsor, and must never be elligible for government assistance. We also need to scale back legal immigation. Levels are already way too high, especially with the illegal alien problem.
That is what I’d wish for.
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Michelle Malkin’s excellent book INVASION should be required reading for all State Department, Foreign Service, Security, and House and Senate personnel.
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Unfortunately–almost nothing has been learned or changed since she wrote this carefully documented and researched work.
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John Bibb
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Nothing has been learned by the general population because they are indoctrinated and not educated by leftist academia, ill informed by the MSM and distracted by self-indulgent entertainment. As more people face un- or underemployment, get hit with higher taxes and levies, and rising costs of goods and services, it may slowly dawn on them, but may be too late!
The progressives in power certainly know what they are doing. Countinued mass immigration from 3rd world nations used to the type of government we see growing here step by step, and open borders inviting illegals to enter and take root here, all of whom the progressives believe will support their party in retaining perpetual power by dishing out scant dolops of government benefits, lower paying jobs than a citizen would accept, granting amnesty, pitting groups against each other. In other words, just destroying the USA as we’ve known it simply to amass and retain wealth and power for the chosen few. To the sheeple go the scraps – but only if they obey!
People self-select their majors in college.
Because it makes liberals “feel good” about themselves and their Country.
*puke*
Yes it is. When someone loses their job due to high taxes and rampant socialism, they’ll have the comfort of knowing that some foreigner isn’t replacing them for lower wages.
I’d note the irony of this statement compared to the one directly above it.
The H1B visa issue is not as bad as it once was. But still, why should the government bring in labor when unemployment is in double-digits? It makes no sense. Maybe the 65,000 people who lost their jobs to H1B visa-holders this year aren’t as sanguine about this as Chappy is.
Also, H1B is not the only and not the largest source of immigrants sweeping into thte nation.
Not surprisingly, that is a stupid and unsubstantiated statement.
Of course! In Chappy’s world we can continue to import workers when unemployment is at 10%+ without impact on unemployment.
In Chappy’s world we should all be happy when someone comes from Lower Slobovia and takes our jobs at 60% of what we used to get paid. At least our former corporate employers will have higher profit margins and their profit sharing bonuses will be higher. To bad those good folks who lost their jobs won’t be able to afford to buy their products or services…
It’s all “unsubstantiated” in Chappy’s world.
And never mind the SUBSTANTIATED 112,000 visas given out EVERY MONTH in 2008! They didn’t take jobs from Americans either…
WarEagle,
I wouldn’t think that I would need to point out the obvious in that
1)you have no evidence whatsoever that any, let alone all, of those 65,000 visas directly caused an American worker to lose his job;
2)that I was not discussing at all any other visa program besides H1-b, so your reference to 112,000 visas a month is as midguided and pointless as we have come to expect of you.
Reference links for chap –
Grigsby and Cohen – H1-b job solicitation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
Recent article regarding historical uses/abuses of H1-b visa program from NumbersUSA:
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/cbreiter2/october-16-2009/history-h-1b-legislation-shows-more-employer-abuses.html
*If* there were a shortage of skilled American workers in certain fields, then the worker importation programs at least make some sense or have a justification. However, as many researchers have pointed out, in reality, the case is tenuous at best.
From the NumbersUSA article above –
“Furthermore, in a 2008 RAND report (prior to the dismal unemployment numbers we’re seeing now) researchers found “no evidence of a current shortage of qualified S&E workers.”
Also, a letter from Sen. Chuck Grassley on the subject as well:
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/node/4716
The evidence is quite tangible if you wish to see it. Research the experience of the late Kevin Flanagan (of BoA) if you care to dig deeper.
The bill to which Michelle refers — HR 4321 — warrants attention. Aside from the visa lottery expansion, here’s another sample from said bill:
So if ICE is coming your way, know where the closest cemetery or school bus stop is.
The bill contains other interesting details (like stripping local and state authorities of even more…authority; see Sec. 184), but people should just go read it.
I definitely agree with this. We do not have nearly enough engineers, scientists, or mathematicians and we’re losing our competitive edge to the likes of China and India because of it. We don’t have nearly enough people with science and math backgrounds to teach our kids REAL math and science skills.
We’re also hurting for more nurses and doctors. Perhaps, if math and science were taught better in our ill-equipped public schools, we wouldn’t be having such a problem supplying competent people to become nurses, doctors, engineers, scientists, and mathematicians.
In regards to teachers, we definitely have a current SURPLUS of them. I’m one of those unemployed teachers (Social Studies). As a Master’s candidate, I was convinced by my program that my degree would make me more marketable only to discover that, out in the real world, school districts find Master’s recipients cost prohibitive. There needs to be a cap on how many people are admitted to undergrad and grad education programs.
This should go for law schools too.
My my. That is not very conservative free market of you, is it?
My, my… it’s also not very sporting on your part to not investigate the underlying implications of the surplus of teachers that currently exist. It’s also not very sporting of you to perhaps not understand what happens when you’re a newly minted attorney or teacher with thousands of dollars of student loan debt and NO JOB but you know that, right?
I’m sure you’re aware that not only are there plenty of senior, veteran teachers out-of-work because of school layoffs but there are even more teachers, just graduated from both BA and Masters education programs without any hope of a job. Is that your idea of a healthy free market?
Is it also your idea of a healthy free market to knowingly snooker people into majoring in fields where there is an overabundance of people already? I think you already know the answer to that question, right?
Free markets work when there is not only less regulation BUT an equal playing field where people aren’t shut out COMPLETELY from fields where there is an OVERABUNDANCE of human resources. Universities and colleges are self-perpetuating institutions that only believe in propping up their education programs and not meeting the realities of the working world.
And people wonder why we’re losing our competitive edge in science and math. Look at some of the nonsense that universities and colleges pull to keep overbloated progams (including education) at the expense of a free market that needs a ready supply of human resources in fields not oversupplied with jobseekers.
Telling people there are jobs in teaching (or any other field) where there aren’t any is JUST WRONG and should be investigated by State Attorneys General as false advertising. It’s something that these schools get away with.
Believe me, if I had known that the thousands of dollars I sunk into my masters degree were for naught… I would have directed my energies at a field with more likelihood of employment.
Or better yet, stayed in the private sector where I had a job.
I swear you are getting more liberal with every post. So now you don’t think students should be responsible for their own decisions? Don’t they have any obligtion to do their own research into the job market? If universities aren’t giving students a useful education, then students will choose not to go there. Should we start siccing the AGs on people who get snookered into buying RC Cola?
It sounds like you are just bitter because you didn’t pick a useful Masters Progam, and/or went to a school that doesn’t carry a lot of prestige. Sorry. That’s on you and no one else.
The problem isn’t so much their poor choice in a study field, but the fact that it’s almost certain that you and I as taxpayers paid for it.
Another item I’ve long advocated was changing the evaluation process for student loan eligibility from a question of simple financial need to a more conventional risk-based assessment of the recipient’s ability to actually pay off the loan. One of the things this would then entail is the simple question of “Based on the applicant’s chosen field of study, are they likely to actually get a job afterward that has a chance of hell of paying this loan off?”.
Absolutely. Poor children should not expect to be able to follow their dreams.
Do you have any data on the rate of default for student loans? Any data on how that breaks down according to field of study?
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HI EMJEM24–#46. Maybe you should consider some career changes. Back to school later in life isn’t easy–I went back and got a MSEE in 1980 to improve my 1964 BSEE skills. I needed digital computer hardware and software skills to replace the math equation and analog skills I learned 16 years earlier.
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Getting competent in the science and math fields could help. And there is always need for nursing, medical technician, and computer skills area teaching. A lot of this can be done “on line” now.
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Good luck. Like the old adage says, “When the going gets tough the tough get going!”
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John Bibb
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That would require a level of personal responsibility for her choices that she doesn’t seem willing to make yet. Better to blame the University or society for tricking her into a useless Masters.
They can, if their “dreams”:
1. Have a realistic chance of succeeding, based on previous academic record and choice of study major in higher education.
2. Results in a paying job sufficient to pay back off the student loan.
Otherwise, it’s called “life”. Time for them to learn that by now if they haven’t done so already.
I swear you project with each and every post you write. So not only am I contemptible but I am liberal for wanting colleges and universities to engage in fair business/advertising practices and put up evidence that their programs deliver results. I’m not sure your judgement is really that impeccable. Perhaps, you’re confused.
I never stated that students should not be held responsible for their own decisions. Students have every obligation to do research into what major will lead to which useful, productive job. This isn’t the same as the soda market and you know it. If a soda company promised the consumer that their product wouldn’t make them fat, and it did, would that not be false advertising? Wouldn’t a state AG have cause to look into such a matter? Aren’t states now acting as nannies, dictating to their public schools what kind of soda machines or snack machines kids can use?
I’m not bitter as much as I am wise about how this program along with many other education (undergraduate and graduate) programs convince people that there is still a need for teachers and that there is no surplus. I did do my research and I did speak with those who graduated from the program. However, the program failed to disclose the actual labor data and actionable results of the program (how many people got jobs vs. those who didn’t). That is crucial when deciding on ANY program. And many universities and colleges withhold this information (bad for business).
I was interested in not sustaining massive student loan debt (a huge reason why I went to a state school for my Masters). Given that you have recollected in the past that you have student loans to pay off, I think my decision prudent. And since I have paid off my student loan, I feel better with my choice. Prestige of a school has nothing to do with whether or not you get a given job. It has more to do with the actual needs of the employer and how you sell those skills. And given that I have more obstacles than typical employees (I am a military spouse and move every 3 years), I often encountered difficulty in securing employment when looking for a teaching position.
What I didn’t know at the time, which research didn’t flesh out and the program deliberately held back or failed to disclose is how tough it is for education master’s recipients to get their first teaching jobs, and that there was a surplus of job seekers and teacher candidates in the field. They also didn’t disclose that I might have to wait between 5-10 years until I got that first teaching job. That’s asking a bit much for a job that may only pay as little as 25k and as much as 40k in some states.
If a given program doesn’t give students all the information they need to make an informed decision about which major is right for them, then what is the point? Should students go to college without any idea of the realities they will face in a given program they undertake? That seems to insinuate that students should take the program on blind faith.
If we’re going to regulate industries like the financial industry, why not the education industry? Parents and students sink thousands of dollars into a degree that might not work out. And in the current economic reality we’re living in, that can make the difference in the future of those seeking a college education and how they find adequate employment.
So, yes, there should be caps on grad school and undergrad programs that entertain a lot of interest. We have a surplus of qualified teachers who cannot find teaching jobs and if they had been given all the information they might not have gone into an overpacked field such as education. That would go a long way into people not going broke over overpriced degrees for jobs they may never (or would not likely) obtain.
Actually, as I previously stated, I’ve already taken responsibility for my choices. I am not blaming society or my master’s program/university for not getting a teaching job. I am simply pointing out that colleges and universities use gimickery to attract prospective students as to what may be a great major to embark on while making promises of future employment that don’t exist. Or, for that matter, not being completely honest about future employment prospects (and this goes for big name schools). That is something that should be closely monitored just as certain federal agencies closely monitor the promises companies make to the consumer concerning questionable products (soda, diet pills, etc.).
It’s interesting how you’ve lead others to believe that I am personally irresponsible when, if that were true, I wouldn’t have paid off my own student loans, or, for that matter, sought employment elsewhere, such as the private sector, where I had worked before my graduate school career.
Since you like to engage in assumption and innuendo, perhaps you’d like to disclose to other posters your CURRENT circumstances? I know that you think me “contemptible” but it’s not like you’re being completely honest while aiming darts at somebody sharing an experience concerning the ethically challenged higher education industry:
1. You yourself have “claimed” that you’re paying off student loans for those “prestigious” schools you went to. Including law school.
2. You yourself disclosed that you’re a recently/currently unemployed laywer. With student loans that might have to be deferred, right?
3. You and your wife relocated to Washington, D.C…. explaining the job loss.
4. You’ve also mentioned how costly digs in the Washington, D.C. area are.
Now, I’m sympathetic to those who move because their spouse was relocated or got a job at a new location. I experience it every 3 years. However, it’s interesting that you’re shooting daggers at me for pointing out a common practice that colleges and universities engage in. I know this having grown up in a college town and having a mother who worked at a local college.
Perhaps, instead of jumping to conclusions and innuendo (things you’ve accused me of doing in the past), you’d ask the questions instead of summarizing an experience that wasn’t mine. I’d like an apology but given who I’m asking it from, I won’t hold my breath.
Hey rocketman:
I’m currently considering a career change. I’m currently unemployed, much like millions of educated people in this country, and am eligible for the GI Bill. However, being that I’m a cautious person, and would like to have a child in the next couple of years, I would like to have my child get it. I am actually considering going to Culinary Arts School, or, for that matter, get my Masters in History so that I can become a professor. Or, I could try my hand at business school. That way, I’d have a better shot at managerial jobs I wouldn’t have with my liberal arts background.
I also might go back to school and get my certification to teach Elementary Education. However, given my overall distrust for the profession and the amount of people already either unemployed or veteran teachers, I probably will forego that.
I’ve actually tried my hand at the math and science fields. I was a nursing major my first year of college before I transferred out. Nursing wasn’t a good fit and I think I saved myself and patients the trouble. I’m pretty good at computers but not on a technical level. I actually was an office manager for a computer services company so I learned a lot about computers that I’ve added to my skill set over the years.
Thank you. I appreciate your advice. I am a hard worker. If anything, I blame myself for having too much faith in the promises higher education made me when I should have been more questioning. I will NEVER make the same mistake again.
No, you advocate for the government to actively limit the decision a student has to study a particular field. I am guessing you wished such caps were in place when you chose your program. That is NOT taking personal responsibility. That is hoping the government will do the grunt work for you.
And you grossly overstate what colleges or universities promise. What, exactly, were you told that could possibly amount to false or deceptive advertising? Oh…I see from here it is what they DIDN’T tell you:
Did you yourself talk to any teachers to see what their experience was? Did you talk to any schools in your area to see what the hiring forecast was? Did you pointedly as the program you were in what your prospects were? Did you do ANY sort of outside research?
This is incredibly naive. At least in my field, the top law firms all visit the same 14 schools. You went to one of them, you almost certainly will be employed. You went somewhere else? You better hope you were top 10% and on law review.
As for MY circumstances, since you seem to care:
1. I am paying off law school loans. Not college, as I had a full scholarship for that. As is my wife. It is a reality today that if you want to guarantee yourself employment as a lawyer, you have to go to a very good school. That is expensive. It is also potentially very lucerative.
2. I am not currently unemployed. I have had a nice steady flow of freelance work from both my old employer and firms down here.
3. We relocated back to DC because we both missed DC. What dictated when we would was when my wife secured a job down here.
4. I have no idea the relevance of my monthly rent.
I hope that helps you figure out whatever you were trying to figure out when you posed those.
No. I am shooting daggers at you for claiming that the government should control how many people can study in any particular field.
17- and 18-year-old high-schoolers?
Are gonna research majors for jobs?
Wouldn’t that be something that, you know, guidance counsellors should do?
emjem24 – I’m agreeing with you, believe me.
One of our sons just graduated law school; he did well, and after 3 years of very hard study, he passed the bar, and obtained his license…and is still scrambling for a job after roughly six months.
For “a” job, any job – not “the” job.
There appears to be a surfeit of attorneys.
But, will law schools tell you that? Of course not.
I spent 1 year in internship,and 4 years in residency after medical school; and I still had to scramble to find that first job – any job – in my specialty.
There was – and still is – a surfeit of docs in my specialty.
But, do you think the reseidency programs tell med students and interns that? Of course not.
For years, I’ve been reading articles in my specialty organization’s publications about the “need” to attract newly graduated docs to enter the training programs of my specialty…articles written by academics, or by quasi-political docs – certainly not by practicing docs in the real world. Idiots, who, with exceptions, don’t give a damn about the job search struggles faced by docs once they are out in the real world.
I will add that, like you, I am not bitter; but, hopefully I am wiser.
Despite the terrible climate for medical practice that trial attorneys, socialists, foolish court decisions, politicans, health insurers, et al have burdened us docs with; I realize – with help from the continual reminding from my wise wife! – that I do perform a helpful service for folks, that I am grateful for this opportunity that I’ve been given, that one’s outlook/attitude/perseverance are so key to success and satisfaction, and that every day is a bonus.
But, do I recommned medicine as a career to youngsters?
Sorry…no.
While I have never discouraged anyone, I most certainly have never encouraged anyone to go into medicine.
I lay the situation out for them; they can decide for themselves.
And, emjem, almost forgot…the best of luck to you!
Wow. Did this thread ever get off on a tangent.
“chapoutier” is French for “off topic.”
Ok, it’s been a day or two since this thread were active, but, NumbersUSA just posted an article about the Visa Lottery and a bill sponsored by Rep Goodlatte to end it.
More info here:
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/january-7-2010/rep-goodlatte-urges-house-committee-consider-end-visa-lottery.html