Blowhard-a-thon at Blair House: Health care summit open thread; Update: Alexander calls out Dems on reconciliation; Obama to McCain: “We’re not campaigning anymore;” Obama’s thin skin is showing; Slaughter bemoans dead lady’s dentures; Boehner: “Dangerous experiment”
Scroll down for liveblogging…
Six entire hours of President Obama pretending to listen to the Republicans talk about the health care reform alternatives his press shop denied existed…even as they linked to those proposals on their own website. Whatevs. Here’s the video embed in case you have an urgent need to watch Oba-kabuki during your busy work day:
This isn’t “transparency.” It’s political expediency.
Statement this morning from GOP House leader John Boehner:
For his part, President Obama comes to the table with the same massive government takeover of health care that the American people have already rejected. In effect, the president’s proposal actually takes the 2,733-page bill that the Senate passed on Christmas Eve and manages to make it worse. Even more Medicare cuts. Even more tax hikes. Plenty of special-interest deals still in place. A trillion-dollar price tag.
This latest Democrats-only backroom deal snuffed out any chance that this summit could serve as the starting point for a bipartisan consensus. Democrats are instead hoping that this media event can be the gateway to a final push that involves circumventing the will of the people and jamming a bill through using parliamentary tricks.
This is the same arrogance and overreaching that the American people are so fed up with. It’s why Massachusetts happened. It’s why Americans waited for hours in the August heat to get into town hall meetings and make sure their voices were heard.
Indeed, we’ve been here before. Shortly after Labor Day, the president gave an address to Congress designed to resuscitate his proposed government takeover of health care. That speech was followed by an all-out media blitz. It was described as a “last-ditch effort,” “an opportunity to take back the initiative.” Nearly six months later, still no health care bill has been signed into law, tens of thousands more have lost their jobs and unemployment is still near 10 percent.
All this uncertainty is hurting small businesses, the engine of job creation in our country, while Americans are rightly asking: “Where are the jobs?”
The president’s health care media blitz was based on the notion that the more the American people learn about his plan, the more they would come to like it. Now that just the opposite has occurred, the president has chosen to limit participation in the Thursday summit to administration officials and congressional leaders. America’s governors and state legislatures have been excluded. Their perspective from the front lines about the damage this massive government takeover of health care would do to cash-strapped states is apparently not welcome. That’s greatly disappointing, considering that measures have been introduced in at least 36 state legislatures opting out of a federal takeover of health care.
Also excluded from today’s summit is Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., co-author of a House-passed amendment barring federal funding of abortion. The Stupak-Pitts amendment — which reflects the will of the American people on the issue of federal funding of abortion — is supported by a bipartisan majority in the House, but was excluded from the president’s proposal. Pro-life Democrats in the House have already pledged to vote against this provision. Health care reform should be an opportunity to protect human life — not end it. This fundamental issue isn’t even listed as a topic for discussion at the summit.
The president can hold all the summits he wants, but the toothpaste is out of the tube: The American people don’t want this massive government takeover of health care. No summit or speech or sales pitch can fix a fundamentally flawed 2,000-plus-page health care bill that spends money we don’t have and kills the jobs we need to get our economy moving again.
Let’s listen to the American people and let’s start over.
***
Will Republicans raise the issue of what IBD calls the “raw hypocrisy of reconciliation?”
Nothing so far in the yearlong debate on health reform has exposed the Democrats’ rank hypocrisy as much as the viewing of these past statements condemning as an unconstitutional power grab what they now propose to do.
***
10:15am Eastern. In an opening statement/lecture, Obama drags his daughters into the health care reform debate. Rehashes questionable menigitis story. See background on that here: Leave Obama’s kids alone…except when POTUS & FLOTUS need them for Obamacare.
10:22am Eastern. Insert laugh track. Obama: “I hope this will not just be theater.” And if it is, Obama goes on, “I hope it’s an opportunity to clarify our positions.”
Sen. Lamar! Alexander is making the opening statement for the GOP. He points out that he is a former governor and hopes to represent views of other governors who were excluded from summit. Roasts backroom deals. Uses car show analogy. Demcare plans are models we can’t afford.
10:34am Eastern. Alexander calls out Obama/Dems on reconciliation. Asks O to renounce tactics, quotes Obama opposition to reconciliation tactics in prior Senate debates. “Renounce jamming it through.” Start over, work together, reduce health care costs. Make that the goal for now. “It means going step by step together to re-earn the trust of the American people.”
Alexander: “If we don’t take reconciliation off the table, the rest of the meeting meaningless and the only thing bipartisan will be opposition to the bill.”
***
Alexander finishes. Nancy Pelosi up next. Brags about bipartisan vote for empty gesture measure lifting antitrust exemption for health insurers. Several minutes of emoting and stammering conclude with multiple invocations of Teddy Kennedy and the left-wing mantra: “Health care is a right, not a privilege.”
Next up: Harry Reid’s Save My Backside speech.
Reid: “No one’s talking about reconciliation!” But, anyway, it’s been done before. Blah, blah, blah. Reid says Demcare bill has had “significant input from Republicans.”
Invokes a constituent named “Jesus” many times. “Jesus.” “Jesus.”
11:00am Eastern. Obama makes claims about lowering premiums in his Demcare bill. Alexander calls him out. Obama gets snippy.
11:34am Eastern. GOP Rep. Dave Camp provides cost reality checks – citing CMMS, PriceWaterhouseCooper, and illuminating restrictions on HSA/MSAs. Points out limits on out-of-pocket spending and coverage mandates that bend the cost curve upward. Obama cuts him off.
11:47am Eastern. McConnell notes that Dems have had 52 minutes. GOP has had 24. Obama snips: “There was an imbalance in the opening statements because I am the president.” In other words: I WON.
Obama remedies the partisan time imbalance by…launching into another long-winded insurance anecdote. HE WON.
And now…over to Charles Schumer!
12:10pm Eastern From the GOP Senate Conference:
Setting the Record Straight: President Obama Cut GOP Some Slack?
At the start of the White House summit on health care, President Obama suggested that he cut Republicans some slack and allowed Senator Alexander to give longer opening remarks. Democratic leadership and President Obama’s opening remarks totaled more than 30 minutes. Senator Alexander clocked in at 13 minutes and 10 seconds.
President Obama to Senator Alexander: “Lamar, both I and Lamar went a little bit over our original allocated time. I — not wanting to be a hypocrite — wanted to give you some slack.”
DEMOCRATS’ OPENING REMARKS REPUBLICAN OPENING REMARKS
President Obama 14 mins, 36 seconds Senator Alexander 13 mins, 10 seconds
Speaker Pelosi 7 mins, 57 seconds
Leader Reid 8 mins, 13 seconds
30 mins, 46 seconds
12:32pm Eastern. McCain talks about backroom deals. Irritable Obama snaps: “We’re not campaigning anymore.” (McCain: “I’m reminded of that every day.”) O flips papers. Jeers at GOP “talking points.” Gives the ball to HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius.
12:47pm Eastern. Cantor has the massive Senate bill printout in front of him. Obama squirms and frowns. Calls it a “prop” and blames printouts for preventing “dialogue.”
1:00pm Eastern. Last speaker before the break: Democrat Rep. Louise Slaughter, who complains about women and minorities being excluded from clinical trials years ago and tells a sob story about a woman who was “forced” to wear her dead sister’s dentures. Or something.
Obama extols the “terrific conversation” so far.
Pray for the Republic, people.
2:08pm Eastern. MSNBC has now cut away from Act II of Oba-Kabuki and is broadcasting Olympic women’s hockey instead.
Crikey on steroids: Tom Harkin just likened health insurance risk pools to segregation.
3:28pm Eastern Boehner up and he’s got the massive legislation on his desk, too. “This is a dangerous experiment” with “the best health care system in the world.” Calls out Obama for not mentioning the government funding of abortion in Demcare. “Let’s scrap the bill. Start with a clean sheet of paper.”
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Trackbacks
- OBAMA’S HEALTH CARE SUMMIT: Campaign Theater, Oba-Kabuki, ShamWoW Infomercial, Dog-and-Pony show « FactReal
- The House Goes First or ObamaCare Dies | The Substratum
- Sister Toldjah
- More Vote Scoring of the GOP At Healthcare Summit | The Substratum
- Live Blogging The “Blair House Project” « Nice Deb
- Real Future Sob Stories If ObamaCare Passes | The Substratum
- Views of The Health Care Summit | Constant Conservative
- The Snooper Report
- The Bipartisan Health Care Summit | Support Your Local Gunfighter
- » Links To Visit – 02/25/10 NoisyRoom.net: Where liberty dwells, there is my country…
- Bob Costas Will Come On Later And Give Us The Day’s Medal Count « Around The Sphere
- Blowhard-a-thon at Blair House: Health care summit open thread; Update: Alexander calls out Dems on reconciliation; Obama to McCain: “We’re not campaigning anymore;” Obama’s thin skin is showing; Slaughter bemoans dead lady’s dentures « Th
- The Edsel – Obama, The Health Scam, And The Health Summit Publicity Stunt — Hillary Is 44
- Healthcare Summit Highlights — ExposeTheMedia.com
- Your Health Care Summit round-up « The Daley Gator
- The Angry White Guy » Blog Archive » Hell Care Summit – Obama just doesn’t get it
- Michelle Malkin » What are Pelosi and the House Democrat women up to now?
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You are right. You are hardly thinking. Do you think the doctor that makes the diagnosis has much of any say in how the hospital will use its equipment?
There is sooo much wrong with this attempt at logic, I can hardly begin to explain it. Just because someone who is insured happens to die quickly does not mean that your chances overall aren’t a whole lot better if you are insured. I can’t believe I even have to explain what “average” means.
Again, I would encourage all of you that think insurance is worthless in terms of improving your survival chances with cancer to do yourself a big favor and negotiate with your company for a carve out and save yourself some money. I’ve no doubt they would be happy to oblige.
Man, Monster Thread 2.0
Well, chapo, yes. I have personally known at least four doctors on at least six occasions who have treated people in hospitals with no real prospect of being paid, or the hospital being reimbursed. It happens all the time.
Tort Reform
On balance…
a REALLY good showing by conservatives v. collectivists.
Even the Fabian McAnus provided some good moments.
On both substance and atmospherics, a net win for the good guys.
Rod-jor, Swede. Chaps is talking out his…eh…orifice. Not his pie-hole, either.
One reason that his earlier stat about uninsured cancer patients having a lower survival rate is that the population considered is, by definition, less likely to survive a serious illness. Period.
Think VA hospitals, Indian health-care, etc. Oh, yeah, government health-care really works…
Maybe. I think Krauthammer is onto the real deal. Barry will say well we tried and the dang nehilists wouldn’t budge…so now we gotta take drastic measures. Why else would they set it up like this? It will backfire, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see it tried.
So either Barrycare dies now or the Despercrats try the nuclear option. Seems either way we win, no? Personally, I don’t think the congresscritters have the kahonas. They really like their jobs. (And health care)
Intrade has the odds of Obamacare passing by 30 June at 43%. Sell!
A funny thing hppened at the store. I had to pay for all the food I wanted, while I watched a rap star use food stamps to get what he did not work for.
Obamacare is medical stamps for those who will not work, and illegal aliens. It use to be called Marxism.
Sure.
But the people saw…and will be treated to on-going video clips…of the deal. It was a net win, I contend.
Your observation is like saying that N. Korea is going ahead with development of nuclear weapons, so why (say in 1998) try to get them to the table?
It was going to happen in any event, but now we have GREATER public support. Trial lawyers love depositions because they pin the opposition to a given position.
What you say, in other words, is there was no point to the exercise. If your object is to win at the summit, your point is well made. If your point is to make them push this to the point of self-immolation, it was just another milestone in…
OPERATION OVER-REACH.
Chappy, you’re getting desperate. You don’t think hospitals know how to use their own equipment??
I see – and we are in agreement, Chappy. Chance (Fate, Destiny, God’s will, whatever) does not care if a person has the most expensive, greatest comprehensive insurance package or if s/he is dirt poor & have no insurance.
Bu I am looking forward to your insider exposé on all the hospitals that are unaware of how to use their equipment or that refuse to use it to save and/or prolong lives.
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/02/25/david-gergen-on-the-summit-republicans-had-their-best-day-in-years/
Ewww…
That’s gotta sting…
The main reason Obama failed so bad today was the performances of his own team. Right out of the gate, Pelosi and Reid stunk up the joint with their usual insane comments. Other than that, the Republicans kept Obama on the defense to the point that he had to resort to “it’s not my fault. It didn’t happen on my watch.”
The best performance by far was Paul Ryan with his devastating deconstruction of the CBO’s analysis to which Obama reacted with annoyance and a blanket rejection of Ryan’s numbers and logic. It was a big grown up moment for the Republicans.
The worse moments were anytime McCain spoke. He once again served a hanging curve ball right down the middle of the plate and Obama knocked it out of the park providing the MSM with the signature moment they were looking for. Bloomberg played over and over again all day long after cutting away from live coverage.
Today should show everyone that the Republicans DO have leaders coming up the ranks and it is time to move them up. The best thing we can do in November is to vote the corruptosaurs like McCain out of office.
Paul Ryan for President. He was awesome.
In the little I could bring myself to watch of this dog and pony show, all the Dems did was spew unresearched drivel about folks denied health care.Do they have proof these stories were true? I could send an email of fiction,too, to any of these dopes. Again, how many denture stories are real?
Now, that’s from Salon…
Think what the middle of the country saw…
So, Chap is arguing that the problem is fairness of health care for the haves and the have nots.
If you have the money to pay for it, then you can get all the treatment you want. If you do not have the money, you will get subpar care including diagnosis with little or no followup care. That includes those people that buy Acme Insurance as Obama analogized today and then complain when they get rear ended (a disease) and the insurance company won’t pay to fix their car(body).
Thats a complete different argument than the one that people can not get care or can not get great insurance for care or even bad insurance for care. My question was about what the argument really is. Now it is apparent it is about the fairness of care. We can better the debate when we know what the real subject is. It is not the access to health care but the fairness of the care. You can access as much as you can pay for. Thats life man. Scarcity of resources is the reason, not Republican opposition.
Note that fairness of care was not a major topic today. It was access and insurance and tort reform.
On the subject of fairness, is it fair for a wealthy person like Bill Gates or Obama to have better health care than me? They do you know.
I, like others, have limited resources. Economics dictate that I spend my limited resources the best way I can. I can not have everything. I wish I could but I can not. I had to turn down a supposedly needed MRI because I did not have $600 to pay my part of the $4,000 procedure. I took a chance rather than take food off the table. So far, I won that bet. We all make those kind of choices everyday.
Was it a right for me to have one because Obama can get one? $600 to him is less percentage wise to income.
I don’t know how you would ever build real fairness into a system. Thats the problem with government. They don’t either but they will act like they do and make some happy and others miserable. Reward your friends and punish your enemies. We make our choices in life.
Sheeoot! This ain’t but a fart in a whirlwind! Get halfway to 10,000 posts, then maybe you got MT 2.0.
This monster thread still broke.
Speaking of Entitlements, I’m entitled to a good night’s sleep! Hey Obowmao, where’s my subsidy monies?
The libs are shooting their wounded…
The war goes on but this battle is about over.
Mebbe…
Hopin’…
But I’m still ready to take this to the streets, if need be.
Now run the same numbers for Canadians. See how well Canadian Universal Healthcare works. There are Canadians who are alive today because they came to the United States to get treatment when they couldn’t even get an appointment the same year in Canada.
ECS
I think you mean Slate there instead of Salon, Rags.
I’d vote for Alexander. Hit him hard right up front with solid, down to earth reality from the medical perspective – and his cred as a doctor drove it home. Then a freaky-funky comeback from…Nanny?!? Barry started in the hole and never got out. Ryan was brilliant, but I’d say MVP goes to Alexander.
This is what “listening” means in Washington.
Obama: 119 minutes
Democrats: 114 minutes
Republicans: 110 minutes
Purple…
true that.
It was a name. It had an “s” in it. That is really good for me.
Thanks for the correction.
There’s a lot of potential crises to be conjured up from Google if that’s Chappy’s guide on what to sweat, ECS.
Just googling “died from cat scratch”, for example, shows that what we really need is a “Cat Scratch Crisis Summit” and a massive government takeover to handle it!
Even worse, while looking for other crises to get panicked about, I Googled “choked on” and came up with this:
“Trucker crashes into home, says he choked on chili
Jan. 30, 2010 09:56 AM
Associated Press
LOWELL, Mass. – Police say a lumber truck crashed into a Massachusetts home after the driver was knocked unconscious when he choked on chili from Wendy’s.”
I wonder if we could combine the “Choking Chili Summit” with the next “Beer Summit”?
Take a look at your average uninsured “American” and tell me if they are a person that has much of an interest in investing in a healthcare plan…or are they waiting for Uncle Sam to do the heavy lifting?
Yeah, but still, Slate is mighty liberal so you were in the right (er…”left”) neighborhood of the political attribution.
There is too much idiocy in the last ten or so comments to reply to individually. I will simply reassert that if you truly think the level of care between the insured and uninsured is equivalent, then every single one if you that has insurance for you and your family are either stupid or enjoy wasting money.
But we all know that is not the case, we all know not a single one of you would drop your insurance and all the silly arguments to the contrary is merely pathetic partisan puffery.
Really, it is amazing the amount of cognitive dissonance people here are willing to engage in simply for the pleasure of being contrary to me. I mean we are not even arguing something controversial. We are arguing about whether or not a freaking cancer patient would be better off with or without insurance. The fact that people here would rather fight me than concede so simple and obvious a point makes it entirely clear you are not in any way serious about solving any problem. Only about being anti-Obama.
Pathetic.
To continue…
That big flat screen tv and dvd-r is a lot more important than any investment in a healthcare plan…especially when you have a willing government that uses your sorry worthless a$$ as an excuse to tax the rest of us into oblivion so you can sit in your single-wide with a cold one in front of the boob tube, then go vote Democrat.
Fine.
To insure the uninsured would only cost around a billion bucks, and that’s change around pocket lint compared to the crap that His Excellence has spent in 13 months.
(Here I usually ask a health question involving worms – “we’?)
I don’t see anyone claiming they would, so you’re waging a mighty battle against a strawman there.
You’re usually a bit better in the logic department, Chappy. But things like the “You go search Google to put together my argument for me” M.O. suggests to me that mebbe you’re a day ahead of all us on the usual Friday Nite MM Commenters Drinking Club.
Well Phil, when you’re the most awesomest orator since the invention of words, the voice you most like to hear is your own.
Seriously, it really seems the theory behind this whole silly song and dance was that Barry and minions thought his awesomeness would carry the day. Hopefully, they will not soon get that Barry can no longer sell shoes, leave alone a monster agenda. People are tired of him, so their strategy is to put him out there even more. Keep up the good work there Axlegrease and Rhambo.
Please chap. That is not quite fair. We are also about being anti-Pelosi & Reid & Schumer & Hoyer & Wrangler & etc. Rather miss your wryly warped sense of humor. Oh well.
Tort Reform
What you forgot to mention is that these same people are already covered by a myriad of free (to them) government healthcare plans, e.g. Medicaid & other local plans. Chappy missed that point altogether.
Unless we’re talking about the transients/bums on the street who have no interest in seeing a doctor in the first place. But even they get free healthcare when they’re brought in after passing out on the street.
(yawn) Yeah, I’m anti-Obama. Does that make me a racist, or an anti-communist?
My argument has always been for the sovereignity of the States. The States have screwed up existing healthcare via their over-regulation and interference of interstate commerce for insurance companies. The reform needs to start at the State level with the Fed involved only to insure equal protection and Constitutionality. Anybody that says the free market screwed it up, is nuts! There hasn’t been any true free market in 40 years.
Well then it must be two things…
Government control of the masses,
and Votes.
George Soros regards his puppet hand (channelling John lennon): “I got blisters on my fingers!”
Anybody know why the blood&guts summit was held at the Blair House instead of the White House? Is there something symbolic there? Maybe Hussein Obama doesn’t want anyone seeing the prayer rug?
Georgia, and about 10 other states are already working on state constitutional ammendments; “Giving Georgians the right to choose whether they want to enroll in any health insurance plan and prohibiting governments from punishing those who decide not to participate.”
If Congress does pass this giant steaming turd, Georgians will say keep the change, Barry. It sets the stage for a constitutional battle the Dems would lose, especially if they use reconciliation to do it.
In one sense, I hope the Dems try it. The entertainment value of watching them crash and burn would be outstanding.
Now that Republicans have found their gnads today, I hope they can keep it up for the next 3 years and take back control of Washingtoon District of Corruption.
I didn’t see that as your argument. Even people with cancer that have insurance don’t get all the treatment they may need. They call it HMOs.
Insurance is about risk. Many people can pay $$$ for years and never even get sick enough to use up a smidgeon of the money they pay in (especially if you consider compounding.)
Insurance is not about getting care, it about investing in the what if. Some investors come out ahead, others lose out. If you choose to not have insurance and you get cancer, that was your choice. Don’t jump on the pity pot. While you were spending that money on nice houses and cars and clothes or booze and Vegas, others had to forego that to buy insurance. It was their choice.
If you wait until you get cancer and then no one will cover you, that was your choice. Perhaps not a wise one but yours all the same.
If you buy an Acme policy ( poor Wile E Coyote) to save money and it doesn’t cover cancer, that was your choice.
Don’t blame others when you make a poor choice.
If you are talking about people that can not afford insurance, we need to ask some hard questions. Did you finish high school? Did you make good grades, Did you develop a marketable skill? Do you spend money on drugs and alchohol? Do you take the bus or did you buy a car? What job do you have? Do you go to work everyday and work hard? Did you have 10 children out of wedlock when you don’t have a job?
Who said they can’t afford insurance? Lets take a closer look before we lump everyone together and blame Republicans for the woes of the world. If you chose to drop out of high school and work as a laborer and you are lazy and miss a lot of work and you don’t save money, and you have several children and you have a substance abuse problem and you decide to spend the money on things other than insurance, don’t blame others when you are hit with a catastrophic illness. Thats life.
You do what you can. If you don’t want to do the legwork and take care of yourself, you may find yourself in worse shape than others. When Democrats raise taxes to take care of these people, others lose their jobs and find their risk going up. Insurance is not high on the hierarchy of needs. Life is not always fair but hard work and determination can help you get through the tough times and prosper in the good times. Government can not do that for you. Equal opportunity does not mean equal results. Its very individualistic.
Actually, RC, no one from the Great Beyond would need to be invoked – that was Ringo’s line from “Helter Skelter”, not John’s.
Many of them have some form of mental illness. Thats a different story too.
True, but I think it’s more alcohol and drugs. Unless you factor those in as “mental illness” rather than a moral weakness/failure, as I would.
At any rate there have always been just plain ol’ bums. I remember our local Skid Row of about 40-50 years back and the flop houses, transients, hobos – the whole nine yards.
Poorly worded – I meant moral weakness/failure is how I view them.
Poorly worded-purplepeep. Very few have moral weakness/failure. I worked as a volunteer with Mitch Snyder and CCNV, helping to set up medical facilities in D.C., from ’85-’89. Many had mental and physical conditions that prevented them from getting jobs. I haven’t forgotten, for example, having dilantin available to pass out on Friday, to prevent the inevitable Saturday night seizures. When I started there, all I could pass out was Tylenol and Vitamin B pills (used as a placebo that worked great). When I left, we had a full medical facility at 2nd & D Sts., with even dentists and social workers. In 1988, I got a message that my Mom (in Hospice) had passed away. I couldn’t do anything at the time, I had 32 patients in the facility to take care of all night, all by myself. We had 1800 homeless people sheltered there. Many were on the streets, refusing to come in when it was cold (afraid of theft of their personal stuff). John and I would load a van up with sandwiches, coffee, and blankets if we could get some, and head out to 14th Streets thereabouts, and try to help. To the homeless (single and married), I was “Doc”. Many were dumped on the streets by the hospitals, with prescriptions that were never filled. Many begged on the streets. Most were good people; just needed a boost to get life back on track again; not looked down on, because of their condition. December 31, 1989 was my final day. I had to move on with my own career in medicine. I won’t forget the experience. It was like combat without the bullets. I certainly won’t forget the cries of “Doc” when someone, somewhere, was in trouble; the adrenelin rush and the grabbing of the med bag.
Chap said:
“There is too much idiocy in the last ten or so comments to reply to individually. I will simply reassert that if you truly think the level of care between the insured and uninsured is equivalent, then every single one if you that has insurance for you and your family are either stupid or enjoy wasting money.”
I think you are confusing terms. “Level of care” can mean quality of care, in which every state and several Federal laws exist that protect a “level of care” received regardless of payment source, or for that matter, even in the inability to demonstrate that one can pay.
Now, if you are talking about choices that one has to make, personally, with regards to their life and what they can afford, then I am with your statement on that one. But let me ask you, Chap: Why should any of use, by the force of government, have to surrender our property due to someone else’s inability to produce payment?
Should we force you to surrender your money or properties because a town down teh road doesn’t have as nice a church as your town? Should I force you to surrender your retirement and savings, in order to cover to losses or inaction of another person entering retirement age? Should I force you to replace my water heater or furnace, because I have made a decision to not maintain it and not make any effort to save money to replace it, because we deem both to be necessary for life under HUD riles?
In our lives, we have to make many choices. Buying a health payment plan (or what this administration, Congress, and the MSM refer to inappropriately as “health insurance”) is simply one of those choices. If you choose to spend your money elsewhere, and do not cover yourself by either savings, catastrophic insurance, or some other means…
Now, none of this should be construed as not being charitable to a person who happens to be in dire circumstances. S#!% happens. We should all be giving, as we can. But it is no longer charity or compassion when the government uses force to compel us from our property. More exactly, it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment of the US Constitution to do such; no matter what any judge or elected official may say, or what case they may reference.
Now, on to a more serious note: Did the Obama Administration today violate the separation of powers inherent to our Constitution? Article 2, Section 3, Clauses 1,2, & 4.
Second serious question: If the insurance companies are corrupt and evil (which was stated may times today), why continue to persist them, albeit in a vastly more complex system of laws that 2400 extra pages will create? Wouldn’t the more logical step be to create a system where we remove the three party conflicts of health care today (patient wants/demands more benefit from the funding pool than they pay in to it v. provider needs to maximize patient load and demand as much payment as they can get from the payment pool while minimize time with patient to prevent over-utilization/over-spending of their practice resources v. insurer desire to satisfy shareholders while attracting patient investments by keeping the pool large and well funded to support both dividends and patients claims for care while minimizing payouts to providers and patients to keep the funding pool partially full), and replace it with a more simple plan (patient health care needs and funds v. provider desiring good business delivering quality care)
Ah, well, then we’d just disagree, graysonnet. We all have our moments of moral weakness and failure, that’s just the human condition.
But we have the free will to chose to stay in that condition or to pull ourselves out of it. You’ve cited, in your experience, mostly people who made the choice to one degree or another to leave a moral weakness (drug use, boozing).
But there has always been – and I imagine always will be – those who have no interest in changing and instead choose to “stay where they are”. You can’t force those who don’t want help to take help.
That is not to say they are bad people at all (though some are, as with any subgrouping of people). They just made the bad choice to give in to the worst within themselves. We are all personally responsible for our choices and our actions, both good and bad.
A few years back, I was down at the Nat’l Press Bldg, at 14th & E Sts. N.W.. They have a food court there that isn’t too bad. As I walked inside, I heard “Doc?” from someone behind me. I turned around and saw a black man in a 3 piece suit, and looking very well off. It was Raleigh. Back in ’88, he came into the shelter, broke, homeless and a hatred for everyone, especially whites, fueled with his addiction to cocaine. Turning me into a bloody pulp wouldn’t have bothered him. When I left the shelter, he was clean for a year. We sat down and had some coffee together, which he wanted to buy. He just finished his master’s degree in social work and now had a good job with the D.C. government. The last thing he did, as we parted, was to give me a hug. That from a man who wanted to kill whites, a few years before. Whenever I feel let down at work, I sometimes remember Raleigh.
I’d like to understand the thinking behind Obama’s publically threatening reconciliation at the end of the meeting.
If indeed Pelosi is currently lacking votes, and Obama knows this, just what his point?
Macho soundbite for those with short-term memory?
Even when juxtaposed against Capitol Hill voting “no” on it?!
His so-called “backup” proposal (see WSJ) may well be a trojan horse, but this move would merely make it *more* difficult to pass even a scaled-back “horse”.
I can’t see *anything* to be gained from that stupid move.
bravo, Barry!
Obama and the Democrats are lost and have nothing of any substance to offer. Their only recourse was for Obama to revet to his natural state of being a smug wise-ass. This once great Republic is in a steep decline and will soon crash.
Obama’s response of “We’re not campaigning anymore.” to McCain’s challenge to him that he isn’t holding true to what he promised – ought to seal his fate as a one term president.
It reminds me of a little story as found here which I modified slightly:
And I won’t call it a ‘joke’ because, in this case, it’s the truth and Obama voters should start realizing that they are to BLAME for bringing our country to the gates of hell.
I used to think Obama and his handlers were pretty slick to have pulled-off what they did in 08. The more I see him, the more he reminds me of a spoiled child. He is clueless and will not succeed at anything except perpetrating grand theft while in the White House.
Some insight this a.m. from…NYT.
If the Lamestream media are even mentioning the waterloo summit today, they are shooting their wounded. Dear Leader’s plan assumed his awesomeness in debating, persuading and controlling the discourse would turn Barrycare around. Epic fail.
If they go for the nuclear reconciliation option now, they are moldy, crumbly toast. Bring it O silly ones.
Not wanting your second-hand smoke, I implored you to offer one personal acquanintance that died because they did not have insurance. You are as detached as the group ramming this health-care crap down our throats.
You must certainly know or have met a thousand people in your life, yet the best you can offer to suport your claim is ‘google’?
I know 6 people that gained medical care that saved or vasty improved their lives without insurance through philantropic organizations, friends and nieghbors.
We don’t need the stinking government!
It gives him the CYA to say to the left “I did everything I could” if it fails, Lockstein, i.e. “blame Congress”. Though I don’t know that CYA will fly with the far left.
I suspect it will be forthcoming along with the list that I’m waiting for of hospitals that are refusing to use their medical equipment to save lives, Cicero.
While we’re waiting we could all swap our lists of people whom we’ve known who received treatment and died despite their having insurance. (If Michelle’s webhosting service can handle all the bandwidth, of course.)
Thanks purple, for years I always thought that was John’s voice on that for some reason. Where did you find that out? Now I gotta go dig out my White Album. (racist alert)
Ah, there’s an entry on the Wiki that sys Ringo screamed that after the 18th take. Kewl, never knew that. The world wide interwebs is a wonderful thing.
sys = says (slap!)
It’s the “Because We Say So” clause of Article I, Section 8. A similar measure was used to shove Roe v. Wade down the throats of many states.
Don’t get me started on the Beatles.
Rogue–did you hear the rattle of the bottle of Blue Nun at the end of George’s ‘Long Long Long’?
When I was informed on it, I thought it was Paul since playing bass wreaks havoc on the digits.
Being a musician and fancying myself a historian of sorts, I’m a fount of related useless music info. Wiki is okay, but for the good skinny on all things Beatles music – and on this blistered thumbs in particular, check this out:
Beatlesbible.com (Helter Skelter entry)
Hmmm….could be, RG. Drawing from the aforementioned fount, I hate to have to tell ya the actual album title is simply “The Beatles”. But the cover is white.
Number 9, number 9, number 9…..
Shoulda been “When I was uniformed”.
Dang. Gotta learn to trust spellcheck more….
Now you’re really gonna make me go listen to that album again!
I lived through the “Paul is dead” phase.
My cousin and I went through his whole collection spinning everything backwards and forwards trying to discover new nuggets! Those were fun days.
‘…you were in a car crash/and you lost your hair…’
What kind of uniform, purple blazer, Nazi leather hot pants?
I’m sorry that I doubted you, I was so unfair;
Forgot about that one.
This is for Spacey.
Everyone but Paul is dead!
Rogue Ched – I remember an issue of Batman comics that actually used that theme as the solution to a “taken from real life” story about a rock band.
Here’s the cover of that issue -
Batman – issue 222
Here are the scans of the whole story, for yer readin’ pleasure:
Paul is dead – Batman
The album cover clue has John facing backwards, heh.
Holy Savoy Trffle Batman! That was some whack $#!+! Thanks!
Trffle = Truffle (slap!)
And you know the story of Clapton’s song ‘Badge’ right?
It was written by George, and Clapton, reading the lyrics upside down, misread ‘bridge’ in the handwritten notes…
and also has a line submitted by Ringo! (“…I told you about the swans that they live in the park…”)
Wasn’t that around the time Eric was putting the boots to Patty, which kinda pissed of George?
Just got our power back on, food in the fridge and freezer pretty much effed.
of = off (slap!)
Don’t forget the credibility McCain’s having been the R in 2008 gives the MSM.
What’s done is certainly done, but any Republican who can’t see the error in choosing McCain in ’08 given this “performance” sees less than the ostrich with its head in the sand.
Hopefully, these same Republicans will be more careful whom gets the nod in 2012 – and also for 2010 campaigns. They could possibly win back some of the conservatives they lost if they do.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com
I wonder if anyone here actually has taken the time to run the numbers and see exactly how much money is being wasted on health insurance policies when that same money could be invested in interest-bearing accounts.
A recent case in Hawaii showed a high-profile uninsured patient who paid 35% less for the same care that an insured patient would have been responsible for through his insurance company. Figure in the total amount of money people and their employers pay for these policies, and it actually doesn’t make sense for people to carry this insurance.
Now Obama and his gang want to force people to buy a product that:
1. increases the actual cost of care,
2. costs more than simply saving the same money and alotting it to a specific purpose,
and
3. is illegal for the federal government to force upon the people.
Sounds like an open-and-shut case against Obama and his accomplices in Congress to me.
RWR
http://www.rightwingrocker.com