Repeat question of the day: Does the GOP have enough balls?
On March 4, I asked:
Does the GOP have enough balls to fight the Left or doesn’t it?
Having to ask the question answers it.
And this latest, depression-inducing news about Senate Republicans backtracking on their campaign to repeal Demcare, via Ace of Spades, confirms it:
GOP Already Starting To Go Wobbly On Repealing Health Care Reform Monstrosity .
Iowahawk drives the point home.
Sorry, I don’t feel much like laughing today.
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The most important election this year is Aug, 24 in Arizona.
J.D. Hayworth needs to retire McCain. Let’s help as much as we can.
The effect on the rest of the herd would be icing on the cake.
On April 2nd, 2010 at 6:40 pm, Papa Louie said:
A good argument if it hadn’t been tried and failed. Do you recall the 1980s?
Were you a part of the ‘reform’ of the Republican Party the one that culminated in the “Contract with America”? Were you with the Party as from the ground up, from the school boards to the nation’s highest office we re-built the Republican Party from the party that gave us Richard Nixon, Enemies lists, scandals and corruption to a party we thought we could be proud of? Do you recall how quickly that alleged Contract with America was violated suborned and broken with outright impunity by some of the very people who claim the mantle of reform today? Why did Dick Armey have to resign, or why was Newt Gingrich forced into ignominy?
By the way many Catholics did indeed found new religions after being sickened by the abuses of the Church. Today we call them Protestants.
Further point with respect to Catholics and The Reformation period: Although the Catholic Church’s political power and religious influenced waned depending on what country in Europe one talks about, Christianity did not become the mortal casualty of the Catholic-Protestant and Catholic-Eastern Orthodox splits of the last 2000 years. The reason for this was that Islam was not acceptable to Europeans as an alternative to Christianity, so Christianity was never in danger as a belief system because of the likes of Martin Luther, etc..
This brings about a further thought I’d like to relay tonight: If an Anti-New Deal candidate split-off from the Republican Party happened in the 1930′s, it would have been a waste of time, and it would have been a waste of time for the reason that FDR and The New Deal Programs, though unconstitutional on their face, were wildly popular then.
Today, times are different: note that Obama had to publicly campaign as a centrist not as a Marxist radical (we knew him to be) in order to win; he is perceived by the public to have renigged on centricism….Obama’s programs are not popular…Since the GOP has once again shown itself to be Democrat Lite even on Repeal and Reform of HCR, it would not hurt us if the Tea Party took up the slack and mantle of opposition leadership away from the Republicans, and functioned as first a quasi-party, and then as a full-blown party with respect to bringing forth acceptable, conservative candidates. Again the reason for this is that a split-off from the Republican RINOs would not engender Democrat gains because their reputation and perception of honesty is in the toilet. I mean would people really run to the Democrats for any reason right now and for a number of years-the answer is no.
The Demcrats/RINOs think they have us UNDER THEIR THUMB, when it is in reality WE HAVE THEM WHERE WE WANT THEM…. BUT WE MUST TAKE THE LEAD AND EMBARK ON THIS OPPORTUNITY SOON.
An opportunity like this doesn’t show itself like this very often, but here it is, if we as cosnervatives can see it.
On April 3rd, 2010 at 12:39 am, love2rumba said:
You’re right to point out that this may be an historic and opportune moment in time.
So, take action now or forever hold your yapping.
If you cannot even win the Republican primary, gathering the relatively small number of voters to your banner in order to accomplish that relatively minor feat, how do you expect to win the general election?
A successful third party bid was possible back in the bad old days when the Party leadership would pick the candidate. Now the voters choose in primaries.
That old world of powerful party control is not the world we are living in. Except for in rare individual races like NY-23, where the party bosses did choose the candidate, like in the past, third parties are just a way for the enemy to divide your voters.
There are 20% die hard Democrats and about the same number of die hard Republicans. They vote party line, and they always will. That leaves maybe 60% in the middle. And 33 of that 60% voted for Obama.
Yet you think you can get 51 of that 60% to vote to dismantle Social Security when you cannot even get the measly 26% or so of the entire electorate necessary to win a Republican primary?
What are you guys smoking?
On April 3rd, 2010 at 9:35 am, Roland said:
The first problem is the word Republican.
If you’ve been at a tea party event and spent time talking to the people around you and not just your friends and their friends you’ve noticed that there are people who believe in the message who call themselves Democrats. They wouldn’t have any part of anything to do with a Republican party. It may be because they’re atheists or agnostics or pagans or scientologists. Some may be independents who left the Republican party in the early 1990s when it was taken over by the so called “moral majority” or other independents who eschewed the overly complex Republican platform for a variety of reasons. Some are libertarians who aren’t all borderline anarchists. It might be for any number of reasons they don’t identify with the Republican party. Heck these days I don’t want to be associated with corrupt, immoral or amoral tax and spend Republican party.
If a party was formed with a very simple platform that Proposed that government should be small and limited in the scope of its powers, that government should be fiscally conservative, that the individual had both rights and responsibilities and that government exists only by the desire of the people to secure for themselves the freedoms that the government was founded upon. I think that party could garner a very broad base of support for itself. It might not be able to win a Republican primary because Republicans have taken on a definition of themselves beyond what I’ve stated above. But, it could win general elections simply because most of the nation does not believe in either the Democrats or the Republicans any longer. What they would like to see is simple principles, simply articulated followed constantly and consistently by a party that is worthy of the faith and trust of the people it represents.
If those ideas make you uncomfortable and fearful. Then stay with the Republicans. Other pioneering and brave people can lead the way. But don’t play the Republican game of it can’t work because you couldn’t even win one of our primaries. Just stay with the party you love so well and that has served you so faithfully and well this past decade.
You have an unfounded belief people vote on the basis of principles. Even worse, you have the wild idea you can get over 50% to vote for the principles you support, just on the basis of those principles.
Most people like the sound of ‘limited government’ and ‘fiscal responsibility.’
Then tell them you’re going to have to cut or eliminate their social security. Tell them the coverage they thought they were going to get with Medicare just isn’t there because the system is bankrupt, and because of your principles you are not going to rob from someone else to cover them.
Tell them what you are actually going to do.
You may hang on to a few. Just enough to let the Democrat win and continue to savage the society much faster and harder than what in most cases the Republican would have done.
Keep Pelosi in power. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
And, btw, talking about me loving the Republican Party is a straw man argument. It makes you seem less intelligent than you are. People here know I loathe the Party bosses.
I am a DeMint Republican. Ever wonder why he’s a Republican and not third party?
Because there is still a belief -though waning-that in order to have any impact as a conservative you must join a major political party. When one realizes ‘why’the democrats are willing to risk everything to get socialized medicine in , it is because they know from past experience the Republicans will eventually go along with it,and that once that happens those that stay in the Republican party can do nothing about it.
Ah, yes. Let’s all of us conservatives join minor political parties. That’ll work out really well.
For the Left.
BTW, I made a comment on another thread today about waiting until the nominations are over before deciding about LOTE voting this time.
We want a House of Representatives willing to defund Obamacare and the rest of the financial atrocities out there now. That means we need 218 conservatives.
If as we approach November we are looking at a Republican landslide that will give us the House by a solid margin, we only need to fight for the true conservatives who are running on and will actually vote for repeal. The RINO’s will be completely expendable.
So if we are taking the House anyway (kicking Pelosi et al the crackpots out of their chairmanships), and you’ve got a decent third party candidate challenging a RINO in your district, this might be an excellent time to make a statement with your vote.
That works fine if they are really serious about repealing HRC,but it already seems they are playing the game of ‘tell the base what it wants to hear in the primaries,and then go more to the left in the general and thereafter’, which is the inherent problem with the GOP.
If it were not so, Roland, there would be no logical reason to create the Tea Party movement-wouldn’t it be just simpler to just vote GOP in Novemeber and trust them?
The problem is, and this is why there is a Tea Party movement in the first place, is that their adherents do not trust the GOP to come through on their promises, and that there is history within recent memory to back up that assertion.
The Tea Party exists as a nonpartisan movement only because there are many Democrats and ‘independents’ who still suffer under the delusion there is such a creature as a ‘conservative’ Democrat politician.
Hopefully many previously Democrat Tea Partiers are discovering the Truth that you are more likely to find a unicorn than a conservative Democrat politician.
Why would anyone in their right mind ever trust a generic politician of any brand, including ‘third party?’
“Generic politician of any brand ….”
Hmmm …. that didn’t come out quite right.
Make that “Why would anyone in their right mind trust any politician because of their brand, including ‘third party?’
On April 3rd, 2010 at 1:39 pm, Roland said:
The tea party exists because many Republicans are under no delusion that there is such a creature as a ‘conservative’ Republican creature.
The truth of the matter is, what we’ve seen since before 1996. The Republican party is a bunch of Democrats who just spend taxpayer money in different places.
As to Democrats and Independents in the tea party’s is it possible in your narrow and collapsing world view to accept that they don’t like Republicans.
You may support DeMint. The real question is, does he, truly support you.
As I said, if you love the Republican party so much. If you don’t remember the or are in accord with those who hijacked the party when we re-built it after Watergate. You’re free to stick with that Titanic mess.
Others don’t share your opinions. Not only that, but really don’t want to listen to the same four Republican party talking points.
I was once a $5000 a year donor to the Republican National Committee and donated to the RNC Senate fund and to my local Republican party headquarters. You’d think that this might matter. Several years ago they lost my money 1996 and thereafter they lost my vote with the exception of the last two election cycles where I held my nose and voted for Republicans including holding my nose and my utter revulsion for Mr. McCain.
Yeah, I drank the Kool-aid right there with you. Before that, I drank deeply of that Republican Kool-aid for twenty five years. But I came to the realization that there has to be something better and if not something better can be created.
I looked at the Libertarians, I looked at the Independents and I looked at a host of parties and found them lacking in basic things. Focus on a narrow set of basic principles. Real leaders, not the stupid poltroons who in grammar school ran to the teacher (How they managed to do so while having their noses where they were is beyond me.) yelling “I’ll lead! I’ll lead! while tripping over their own feet and sliding across the floor. ASk yourself if Jim DeMint asked you to risk everything to follow him would you?
I’ve known men and women who could ask that of people and they would follow, but no one in the Republican party or the Democrats for that matter.
It’s a free country or was free once. My choice is not to put my faith in a faithless, immoral and corrupt party that lacks leadership at its topmost levels. You are free to choose too.
Riiight. All of the resistance to the open borders was from the Republicans until the electorate roared. All of the votes in the Senate against obamacare were from Republicans, and the only reason there were some Democrat votes against it in the House was because they had enough some could run for poltical cover.
Drawing the Democrats and Republicans as generally equivalent in terms of conservatism is a vile lie, and you know it.
It’s the kind of lie Democrats tell.
And, no, I do not ‘love’ the Republican Party. And, no, I haven’t ‘drunk the KoolAid.’
Just because you are too dense to understand my arguments or too deludedc by your emotions to understand the political reality of the makeup of the American electorate doesn’t mean my arguments are based on emotion or irrational loyalties.
You have not addressed my points about the reality of the politics of it, and you will not address those points because you cannot.
You are just pissed at the Republican leadership, and you’re letting that affect your judgment. Either that, or you’re a Democrat.
I’m done with this argument today. I’ve wasted enough time. You are plainly wrong, and I’ve made that point clearly enough for anyone reading these comments.
Which was your response to my original quote of:
You didn’t really answer my question, Roland.
Nothing happens without precedent. Considering the outrage against Obama, there should be an immediate and irrefutable desire for the wisdom and leadership of the opposition party,the Republicans, and for no other entity….Furthermore, if there were no questions amongst voters that Republican leadership and wisdom was adequate to oppose Obama, there would be no need or desire for a Tea Party -like movement at all, now would there be?
Maybe you need to stop worrying about unicorns and rainbows so much. I, for one, have no use for them.
I hate to be labeled as a single issue voter but I live in Arizona. To me there is a single issue that will tell me whether or not the Repubs have the guts to go the distance: Quite simply vote John McCain out of office. And, JD Hayworth needs national support from conservatives everywhere. Let AZ know you don’t want Mr “Bend over and grab your ankles” style of bipartisanship anymore.
For the people outside of AZ you would not believe the campaign being waged by McC to remain in office. It borders on ugly.
If McC had run half as tough a campaign against “The One” McC would be POTUS today. On top of that he damn near ruined the best thing to happen to American political conservatism since Reagan. He almost blew it for Sarah Palin, only her inner strength has kept her afloat.
McNasty must go
PC is Thought Control
LEE
PS I wish that Sarah Palin had not supported Senator McCain. I guess her sense of duty outweighed politics. sigh.
On April 4th, 2010 at 1:42 pm, Lee Hazel said
I understand what you mean. I’m a Texan whose late wife has family who ranch near the border. It’s not bad enough that the illegals steal and kill cattle but the drug and illegal runners are very well armed (usually with US military weapons originating with the Mexican government) and terrorize the ranchers into ignoring their crossing the ranchers lands and cutting fences.
I understand your point and sympathize. McCain and all who agree with his ‘open border’ thinking should be ousted.
The real issue in AZ is not JUST getting rid of McCain but not voting for JD Hayworth as an alternative because he is nothing more than a DC “Re-TREAD”. There is a third Repub candidate that is getting NO press or financial assistance from the “establishment of the Repub party” and that is Jim Deakin who is a TRUE Constitutional Conservative, for small government and fiscal conservative. His objective when he gets elected is to put a stop to the mess in DC by being as big an obstructionist as the Repubs SAID they were going to be against the Health Care bill–but did they?? NO!! they caved time after time. I can guarantee that Jim Deakin will NOT cave!! So if you want to get rid of Juan McAmensty send your money to http://www.jimdeakin.com
When Rob Krentz was murdered the politicians ran to the border to show their outrage and used his death as a fund raiser–including, disgustingly, JD Hayworth. He was in the middle of a million dollar money bomb and showed up at an event called by the San Bernardino ranchers for current elected officials that he wasn’t invited to. Has the National Guard or the military showed up yet? Hell NO!! Are we still seeing illegal activity to the MAX!! DUH!! didn’t slow down the cartels and smugglers one iota. Did Hayworth’s presence make a difference to the issue?? HA!!but he did send out an email for more money to help him get elected to put a stop to illegal border crossers. It’s been over a week and all is now silent!
So no matter what state you are in vet your candidates thoroughly and support them with YOUR money and YOUR time and don’t count on the “Repubs” to solve anything except to get themselves back in power. Just because there is a”R” and the state party supports them doesn’t mean they are the one to vote for–it should be a red flag. Remember NY-23, Crist in FLA….