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1. #101
   On May 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am, happyscrapper said:

   On May 19th, 2010 at 9:21 am, dcbprime said:
   Reading that last BOB post makes me wonder if these seniors could just whip out their newspaper birth announcements.

   Good point! The fact that there are newspaper announcements means nothing!! As a genealogist, I have seen newspaper notices of births that occurred in other places. They are put there to notify friends and family who live in that location. It doesn’t mean the baby was born there. And the fact the NO hospital will claim Barry was born there…why is that? Wouldn’t you think that would be an honor for them? Why would they hide it? I am a radical, Bible clinging, racist, right-wing extremist birther!

2. #102
   On May 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am, happyscrapper said:

   On May 19th, 2010 at 8:31 am, BOB said:

   And, BOB…great post!

3. #103
   On May 19th, 2010 at 2:53 pm, Ty85719 said:

   I’ll give $10 toward the college fund of the first graduate who, when asked for his or her citizen status, replies “Him first” and sends the whole school into emergency Birther lockdown.

   Let’s make things interesting – I will give $100 to any student that asks Obama for his papers, and I’ll throw in another $50 if they bring up the Arizona issue

4. #104
   On May 19th, 2010 at 3:45 pm, swede said:

   BOB said:
   Here’s the deal, to interest you in even the possibility that Obama might be ineligible, I have to show you rock solid smoking gun proof, but for you to believe everything is on the up an up with Obama all that is required is a couple of three line newspapers ads?

   Bob – you are talking to a person who would like your theory to be true as much as you do. I acknowledge the possibility that Obama is ineligible. I acknowledge there are many things surrounding the birth that are questionable. So here’s the information I have to work with.

   1) There exists a physical, paper Certificate of Live Birth with a Hawaian seal, certified by one Alvin T Onaka Ph.D, State Registrar to be a “true copy or abstract of the record on file at the Hawaii Department of Health” Mr. Onaka also publically stated to have seen the original. Dr. Fukino, Director of the Hawaii Department of Health also stated publically she saw the record. This doc is exactly what any other person would receive, and just like the one I received when I needed a birth certificate.

   2) It could possibly be a forgery, in which case:
   Dr. Onaka is guilty of forgery, malfeasance of office, possibly accepting a bribe, and ??? – Dr. Fukino, a ranking state official lied and ???. A US senator and members of his staff submitted false documents to the government and lied. Are there witnesses? Is there evidence of covert communications, collusion, money changing hands, fabrication of the document, previous wrongdoing…? Nope.

   So why doesn’t Barry just produce the original? 1) It doesn’t exist, OR 2) Doesn’t need to. He has met the requirements and been certified eligible by Congress, OR 3) Doesn’t want to. He would be kowtowing to people making unreasonable demands.

   3) Two newspaper carried announcements of the birth. This doesn’t prove anything, only part of why a reasonable person might assume Barry was born in Hawaii. Were the microfilms at both papers and public library as well as extant hard copies altered? Did someone provide false information in 1961? Whom and why? (Birth announcements are submitted to the papers by hospitals, not individuals)
   Maybe. Not likely. I might suggest advertising for copies of that day’s paper people may have saved for other reasons. If you found a copy without the announcement, I would be very impressed and interested. Not holding my breath.

   4) There are many claims and reports world wide of Obama being Kenyan born. Who made them and why? All these claims are anecdotal, heresay, inuendo, misunderstanding or rumor, all from unofficial sources. People say lots of things for lots of reasons. There is no documented evidence or credible testimony of Barry being born anywhere – other than Honolulu.

   Given all that, I think it is reasonable to assume Barry was, as Bruce would say, “Born in the USA”. I’m actively working on getting a conservative candidate elected to replace the Librocrat in my district. I think my limited time is better spent there. Wish you the best.

5. #105
   On May 19th, 2010 at 3:58 pm, swede said:

   BTW, just a thought – If an original Birth Certificate were produced, you still wouldn’t accept it, would you? If Barry and his minions were able to pull off all the above, how hard would it be for him to slip a forged original BC into the state files. This is a never ending saga.

6. #106
   On May 19th, 2010 at 4:24 pm, ScottyDog said:

   On May 19th, 2010 at 12:06 am, BOB said:

   The people responsible for putting up the phony COLB on Obama’s fight the smear website and others are at least guilty of aiding and abetting a conspiracy to de fraud the American people. In addition, whom ever forged the COLB is guilty of forging a legal document.
   These are felonies not some misdemeanor petty charge.

   Dr. Ronald J. Polland, Phd has posted his findings on youtube.To cut to the chase, start with Chapter 3 and learn why the COLB is a forgery.

   This is a direct quote from his research;”IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Factcheck, Politifact, Hawaii, and the Obama Administration are the players behind the greatest birth certificate fraud in history. They know that Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery and a fake and have been hiding that fact from the public for the past two years”.
   Anyone that disputes his findings is just sticking their head in the sand like an ostrich.

   Yes, that means you swede, you are in denial. I have read your so called responses and they are so silly I will not respond (except for one).You remind me of the people that used to stick up for Bill Clinton and you call yourself a conservative?

   As an example;”SCOTUS refused to even hear the case, without comment. In other words, there was no case.”

   The fact is they voted and they could not get 4 votes to hear the case. They did not say there was no case they could only get 3 justices to look at the case so far. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thoma has confirmed this fact yet you conclude that “there was no case”.

7. #107
   On May 19th, 2010 at 5:14 pm, dcbprime said:

   Swede,

   I would like to address a couple of points from your post, but I think the majority of it would best be answered by others.

   Here goes:

   1) The COLB we’ve seen is essentially a modern document that states that the original document exists. However, it is also at best an “abstract”, and not a “true copy”. This is evident by the category of “father’s race”. As an “abstract” it does not have the name of the hospital, the signature of the delivering doctor, and info like that.

   2) (This is also for you, ScottyDog) The document presented is not a forgery. It is an “abstract”, and as such it is a legally valid document, for what it is.

   3) It sounds like you think there is a claim that the newspaper announcements are a complete fabrication, and did not actually appear in print. That is a straw man, from all I can tell. I believe that BOB and others are saying that the announcements appeared in the paper, but were either phoned-in by the grandparents or logged by the hospital once the original COLB was issued.

   The “why” goes back to the social climate of the day, if what I read is correct. Could be as simple as trying to get an edge in a potential future custody battle. Who knows? Would you rather your parents or grandparents made certain you were listed as born in the USA?

   4) Actually, as it stands all assumptions about where our President was born are speculative. To paraphrase what you said, there is no documented evidence that has been presented or credible testimony of Barry being born any particular place, even Honolulu. And that’s the rub.

   I would love for this to be put to rest. I won’t presume to speak for anyone else on this, but if an actual 1961 certificate is presented and is determined to be of accord with the serialized certificates before and after it, I would be satisfied.

8. #108
   On May 19th, 2010 at 5:20 pm, BOB said:

   On May 19th, 2010 at 3:58 pm, swede said:
   BTW, just a thought – If an original Birth Certificate were produced, you still wouldn’t accept it, would you? If Barry and his minions were able to pull off all the above, how hard would it be for him to slip a forged original BC into the state files. This is a never ending saga.

   Well, I wouldn’t want the real birth certificate to look like it was just put together yesterday by a bunch of panic stricken Obots, if that’s what you mean. Producing a fake at this point is not as easy as it sounds, though of course they can try. When you start faking the signature of the doctor, the signature of any other witness and the mother and/ or father, and an actual street address, the signature of the local registrar and the state registrar, the hospital name where the hospital records have already been checked out and no record of Obama’s birth found, and so on, it’s gets pretty tough to keep the evidence that follows this information in line.
   If the real birth certificate was suddenly released I doubt that everyone would just glance at it and say, “OK”.

   You must do a whole lot more than just produce a birth certificate, especially after having refused to do so for a couple of years. I don’t think that’s going to happen, or it already would have. Why should he if people like you are intent on giving him a pass for the nothing COLB he has plastered on the net now? Also, after a couple of years of stonewalling, BSing and lying I admit I would expect release of his actual school records, medical records, etc., that would list his country of birth, citizenship, whether he was attending college as a foreign student or not, etc. Sure, I can be convinced he’s legit, but he made it a lot harder by starting out with anything but the, “transparency”, he claimed would be his hallmark. When I am dealing with a proven liar with a hidden past, yes, it pays to skeptical.

   If the saga is never ending it is totally Obama’s fault.

   I cannot imagine a better place to spend my time than on this issue. The potential reward is much greater than say, yelling about Obamacare for a year only to see it pass anyway. What other issue has both the possibility of setting the progressive movement back 50 years…and undoing the damage already done?

   In spite of what the Obots publicly say, this issue has them running scared like no other…you can tell by the way they react to it.

   It is time to increase the pressure, not to let up

9. #109
   On May 19th, 2010 at 5:29 pm, dcbprime said:

   BTW, remember this?

10. #110
    On May 19th, 2010 at 5:49 pm, dcbprime said:

    And here are the newspaper announcements.

    FWIW, I actually want his Hawaiian birth to be true. But that is only a portion of the issue.

11. #111
    On May 19th, 2010 at 7:34 pm, BOB said:

    On May 19th, 2010 at 11:52 am, happyscrapper said:
    On May 19th, 2010 at 8:31 am, BOB said:

    And, BOB…great post!

    Thank you very much……..

12. #112
    On May 19th, 2010 at 7:44 pm, Virginia Patriot said:

    The founders derived their use of the phrase directly from Vattel. There is plenty of evidence from that time to know that if one looks. It has even been cited in early Supreme Court rulings. In fact The Laws of Nations was the book that George Washington has still not returned to the library. Those fines must be huge by now.

13. #113
    On May 20th, 2010 at 11:16 am, swede said:

    Virginia Patriot - It does indeed seem that the constitution, as well as Franklin and Jefferson letters use the term “natural born citizen” as though there were an accepted definition, and I personally agree it was likely Vattel’s. Establishing difinitively that Vattel’s was the one the framers intended would be difficult though, especially with liberal scholars and a Congress pre disposed to finding reason that it was not.

    ScottyDog – This is the reason you guys frustrate me. I would be very interested in ”IRREFUTABLE PROOF” that the COLB is a forgery, so took the time to follow and evaluate your information. First, I have personal experience with digital micro imagery in the building forensics field. Pollard’s comparrison of the alleged forgery with an authentic document is blatantly bogus. Look at the side by side images. The Obama doc is a much higher resolution – you can actually see the texture in the paper – which casts shadows. In the other the paper is flat – so the print is as well.

    Moreover, a little further checking finds that Dr Pollard is a fraud. Claims to be an expert on about everything from psychology to the paranormal. El Quacko.

    I try to fairly consider all the evidence, but ticks me off when I have to waste my time researching things that you should have before posting this as categorical proof, when it is highly suspect at best. Who is in denial?

    dcbprime – I allow the possibility that someone placed the announcements, but doubt it because, a) Birth announcements are placed by hospitals, not individuals – and don’t see how this would be an exception, and b) What would be the purpose. Establishing citizenship? As I have been beaten over the head with here – Newspaper announcements prove nothing. Did they think these would later prove citizenship without a birth certificate? I don’t get it.

    BOB – Your reasoning escapes me. Certainly it would be hard to forge the original. But harder than the extensive high level conspiracy and coverup already aledgedly perpetrated?

    I’m glad you and others are spending your time and energy this, and sincerely wish you success. I have spent enough. I agree things seem funny with the whole thing. Give me something compelling – anything – and I will personally buy you guys steak and lobster, and give you the last of the Cuban Cigars I picked up in Hong Kong.

14. #114
    On May 20th, 2010 at 1:57 pm, BOB said:

    BOB – Your reasoning escapes me. Certainly it would be hard to forge the original. But harder than the extensive high level conspiracy and coverup already aledgedly perpetrated?

    .

    Forging an original Hawaii birth certificate for Obama would be darn near impossible. Not because they couldn’t make one that looked OK, but because the information it contained could then be verified by anyone who saw it. Examples, are the signatures real, does the doctor or his office have records of the delivery, does the nurse or other attendant remember or have records of the event? What is the occupation of the parents? Could someone who worked with them be asked about the birth of little Barry? The country of birth of the parents? Why does the hospital not have any records of the birth? Do the persons who signed as local and state registrars have records, and do the signatures exactly match other samples of their signatures? A forged real birth certificate would open a real can or worms for the Obots, and be much harder to do than anything they have had to contend with so far.

    Carrying out a succesful forgery of an actual long form birth cerificate would be a whole lot more difficult than anything they have done up to now. That’s one reason why they didn’t do it first, and instead slapped one together that provides absolutely nothing to trace, no signatures, no hospital, no street address…..no nothing.

    Yep, there is something bad wrong here, and if you want to call this a fall-back positon, that’s fine with me..but If there is nothing to hide, why hide it?….and,…there is a media blackout on discussing not only anything related to Obama’s eligiblility, but also to his shady background.

    Do you believe he actually attended Columbia University and aquired a legitimate diploma that had grades adequate to get him into Harvard?

    How did he pay for all the high-dollar schools?

15. #115
    On May 20th, 2010 at 7:41 pm, swede said:

    How did he pay for all the high-dollar schools?

    An indigent African American student? They probably paid him.