9/11 families fight sharia “party place” at Ground Zero

Last night, a community board in Manhattan approved a mosque/sharia-compliant “party space” at Ground Zero, two blocks from where the 9/11 hijackers mass-murdered thousands and brought down the World Trade Center.
Enraged 9/11 families protested the move and spoke truth to power:
After four hours of public debate, members of Community Board 1 finally voted 29-1 in support of the project. Nine members abstained, arguing that they wanted to table the issue and vote at a later date.
The board has no official say over whether the estimated $100 million mosque and community center gets built. But the panel’s support, or lack of it, is considered important in influencing public opinion.
Holding up photos of loved ones killed in the Twin Towers and carrying signs such as, “Honor 3,000, 9/11 — No mosque!” opponents of the proposed Cordoba House on Park Place called the plan an insult to the terror-attack victims.
“That is a burial ground,” said retired FDNY Deputy Chief Al Santora, referring to the fact that victims’ remains were scattered for blocks.
Santora’s 23-year-old son, Christopher, was the youngest firefighter to die that day.
“I do have a problem with having a mosque on top of the site where [terrorists] can gloat about what they did,” said Santora, with his wife, Maureen, by his side.
About 150 people attended the emotional Greenwich Street meeting, were some shouted down others as they took their turns.
More background from Allahpundit.
The indefatigable Debra Burlingame exposed the man behind the mosque complex, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who deceptively calls his development a “fun house.” Read here and watch this:
Debra met with the Soho Properties partners, Sharif and Sammy El-Gamal, owners of the corporation that bought the property with $4.85 million in cash. They refused to disclose their investors “on the advice of our attorneys.” According to Debra: “They showed us a professional rendering of the plans. It’s not a 13-story building. It’s a 15-story building and the mosque, accommodating 2,000 congregants, will be on the TOP FLOOR, with a commanding view of the entire Ground Zero site. On the ground floor, clearly printed, were these words: “Elevator to mosque.”
How far they have come:
***
As Debra said last night: “I am actually, in a way, glad that this has happened, this controversy, because finally, maybe, Americans, New Yorkers will start asking questions. Top of the list: What is Shariah?”
Read Andrew McCarthy’s The Grand Jihad. It’s about sabotaging America from within.

Lan astaslem: Arabic for “I will not submit/surrender”
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Check the Imam’s Wiki page here (before the Islamo-mutts change it back):
CLICKETY CLICK
This Islamo-mutt changed it back. Sorry. Also, you’re not as funny as you think you are.
I like the Crusades. I would have supported them in their efforts.
“The Crusades” is the number 1 comeback by libtards whenever any political/conservative/religious issue is brought up. “Oh, yeah? Well, The Crusades…”
Of course, they have no idea what the “Crusades” were or when they took place.
It’s fun to tweak the libtards.
Unfortunately, it’s the muslims that are doing it to us with this mosque abomination.
TO: Libtards
SUBJ: Islam
1. Yes, it is a Holy War.
2. Choose a side, and shut up.
Good Luck.
Allowing this abomination to be built is tantamount to surrender!
I have asked from time to time of the Libtard about who the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was and what side he was on in WW2 as well as his edict after Israel was in the course of and after it became a nation – care to guess on their responces?
Don’t worry everyone, our government is concerned about ‘protecting’ Americans.
You know, they care about the important stuff like whether or not gay people feel accepted. . . and how much they can get away with based on who they have sex with. (did you see Glee last night? first time for me and it celebrated a girls abortion, and a bully standing up (physically, agressively, threateningly) to a guy who described something as ‘f-ggie’. The message was if you don’t want to sleep in the same room as a gay guy, you are a bigot that needs to be punished. Imagine women upset that men would sleep in their room being chastised for being ‘insensitive’)
And also they care about the plight of the illegal alien trying to make it in this tough country.
And of course they care about the atheists because we can’t exercise our freedom of religion by praying before government meetings. Being in the government doesn’t mean you give up your American rights. Banning prayer in government meetings denies the government member their freedom to worship.
And they do it because we don’t want to offend the atheists who are offended by the notion of a God they don’t believe exists.
If I don’t believe something exists (homosexuality), I’m certainly not going to be offended by it. I might be disgusted by it, sickened by it, confused by it, but not offended by it.
we have a GREAT country! Straight, white Christians may be a lot of things, but we set up a heck of a country.
People like Obama are sad that white Christians were so industrious to set up something as great as America. The liberals wish America was under Sharia to ‘stick it to’ the Christians.
this nation is doing a lot of things wrong. We are not going to survive if we can’t get a lot of priorities right.
Our country won’t survive the self hatred and the attacks from within using our freedoms as a shield for people who hate our foundation. We won’t survive without God either.
Who is this pabarge troll? He should be permanently banned if he did what it sounds like he did. How did he ever get an account and not expose himself before now?
RedDog, we got off on the wrong foot. I’m no troll, I just don’t actively post to the site because I have a job and stuff. I’m Muslim, and if you want to bucket me accordingly, so be it.
I see no reason why we can’t be friends. However, if you think I should be banned for editing a publicly editable page, then so be it. It’s not like I was hacking into your personal computer.
mmm
1. He was an original character on The Muppets but later dropped because he talked about God and Ronald Reagan.
2. He was head of the Alabama KKK from 1920 – 1926. Killed by a jealous husband in 1932.
3. Leader of the Chicago Shriners Dancing Abdullahs chapter. Famous for telling Al Capone he looked like a jelly doughnut and found face down in a ditch three days later.
Longhorn, RedDog was referring to “pabarge”, not you.
And I agree. There’s no call for what pabarge did to that wiki entry, so good on you, Longhorn, for repairing it.
Muslims have no problem killing other muslims, if they think it gets them closer to heaven. That mosque proposal is an insult to the 9/11 dead and the GIs who have fought, died,been injured, and survived Afghanistan and Iraq. Don’t let them build it.
I too am tired of our government telling us how wonderful Islam is after one of their attacks…
You misunderstand. I was criticizing the poster named pabarge. You did exactly the right thing. He is the one who should be blacklisted.
I’ll be your friend.
My apologies – I read your post too quickly. I thought “garbage troll” was a little immature, even in the internet space.
No harm no foul.
pabarge added this line to the wiki:
“Abdul Rauf is the Imam behind a mosque/sharia-compliant “party space” at Ground Zero, two blocks from where the 9/11 hijackers mass-murdered thousands and brought down the World Trade Center.”
While this may be factually correct, it is incomplete and inflammatory (by wikipedia standards?) in its wording.
Dude, write a paragraph without the inflammatory wording, add proper citations, and use Rauf’s own words when possible. And maybe add it under the Cordoba Initiative paragraph?
longhorn:
Have you heard the promotions for “blind sheik” prosecutor Andy McCarthy’s book?
Andy McCarthy: The Grand Jihad: How Islam and The Left Sabotage America
http://www.hannity.com/guest/mccarthy-andrew/10862
Check out his interview with Hannity from Monday. I’d like to read your comments on his assessment of the Jihad threat – at least based on what you can glean from the interview.
The point I was originally trying to make was that Christians committed atrocities against innocents during the Crusades and various Inquisition periods and wars – supposedly in the name of Christ, but in contradiction to His teaching and the Scriptures. No Christian ever built a monument or Cathedral at those sites. The attacks of 9-11 are in perfect keeping with the Koran and teachings of Mohommad, and Islam celebrates it as a victory over the “infidels”. True Islam can not exist in a democracy. It is fundamentally a theocracy, and must destroy and assume control of government. WTC is considered a victory in that quest.
There is no other reason to select this site with a mosque directly overlooking ground zero than to celebrate 9-11 as a victory over the infidels. This is the most expensive real estate on the planet, Manhattan has the highest utility, services and operational costs in the US, and the location is poorly suited to congregate large numbers of Muslims. In short, the selection of the site is to make a statement and/or claim.
Again, I say let them build it, then build a larger, stronger and even more vital and thriving commercial center and carry on business in front of their “victory window”. If however, ground zero remains a hole in the ground indefinitely, that’s another story.
Agreed. While his was not so terribly aggregious, I still think it is very poor form to tamper with any Wiki publications unless you are a legit contibutor.
Well, longhorn–here’s your chance.
Well said in my opinion… very hard to argue against this understanding of the matter.
links to allahpundit but none to Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer?
I guess a silly screename has more credibility than actual EXPERTS who have been on top of this for eons, written books and actually were there.
oh boy
(true dat, bansharia)
Allah is a false moon god, and Mohammad enjoyed murder, and rape.
Those who go to any Mosque follow Mohammad. Building one close to ground zero is to cheer the murder of thousands of Americans.
RedDog – I haven’t read the book, and I’m (shockingly) not a Hannity insider. Are there specific points you’d like me to address? High level, of course there’s a statement to be made by building a mosque at ground zero. And it’s not the statement you want it to be, sorry. I’ve attended prayers in Manhattan, at different mosques, and I’ve never heard a message that wasn’t peaceful. Islam isn’t a threat to you – crazy people are a threat to you. Crazy people will be just as likely to attend prayers at Cordoba as mass at St. Patrick’s – unfortunately they’re everywhere.
I am surprised that a group that is so concerned with states rights in Arizona doesn’t believe the Manhattan city council should decide what’s best for Manhattan.
Spaceycakes – what are you talking about? Here’s my chance to do what? I didn’t realize I walked into an interview.
Yes, Christians committed atrocities during the Crusades.
uhhh… so what? What is wrong with the Middle East that they hold inter-generational grudges over centuries?
Aside from the fact that they have visited ten-fold the atrocities on Christians, to which I say again: so what? I’m not at war with the b@stards because of Saladin. I despise them because they are trying to kill my family and I.
I have no love loss with muslims. If a genetic disease struck the lot of them tomorrow, I’d fund the effort to televise porn on every channel that wasn’t hosting the “save them” telethon.
My issue is with people ignoring the Constitution, not liking muslims. We have rules: follow them.
Don’t surround the mosque with commerce: surround it with adult bookstores, hip-hop, etc. We can vote the area to be zoned “special use.” How will a strip club, open 24 hours from Friday to Saturday at midnight, go over? What about five or six pork barbecues, with smokers running all the time, just across the street?
There is plenty of room, inside of the Constitution, to make these people miserable.
Most of all, we need some serious Youth For Christ (etc.) evangelizing outside of EVERY mosque in America. Let’s get those Bible Tracts moving, gang.
Let’s give Abdullah and his family a taste of Southern Baptist Evangelism.
All Perfectly legal…
I DARE any Iron Worker or Union member to work on the project and any Firefighter or Fire Inspector to give it approval.
Oh, nothing, longhorn. Nothing at all.
Forget my post altogether.
Do you suppose we could put up revival tent next to the Kaaba stone in Mecca and get Franklin Graham to preach a sermon?
I wish they had the guts to do that. The ‘tough’ New Yorkers are great at rallying after a crisis. As to the slow whittling away of their freedoms, I think most are apathetic. I pray to be proven wrong.
RobM – has it occurred to you that a Muslim who picked up and moved to a non-Muslim country is probably not offended by BBQ joints or strip clubs? I don’t know who you think attends prayers in Manhattan, but I’m pretty sure we’re not who you think we are.
I missed all the reports of Catholic suicide bombers. Must be another cover-up by the Pope.
You people still don’t get it. Someone said let them build their mosque and we’ll just build an even BIGGER Christian church nearby. Ha! What a joke. There won’t be any Christian churches built anywhere near there.
Have we built the towers back? Hell no.
Let them build their mosque and that will be that. No churches. No towers. Just a shell of a country that frankly would deserve it’s crumbling fate.
F all you libtards. I hate you.
Muslims strategically place mosques and minarets in places and sites they claim to have dominated – anyone who thinks this is an innocent act of unity is completely naive.
The Crusades were over 700 years ago.
Get over it.
Make no mistake, this mosque is being build as a victory shrine. Muslims from around the world will come to view their handiwork and gloat.
But that’s not the surprising part. What’s inexplicable is how leftist New Yorkers, the masters of double speak, could not see through this ruse and voted overwhelmingly to support it.
Billy Graham Crusades were not that long ago. Seems like it though.
Anyone who worships Allah, and does not follow Mohammad is an extremist.
One only has to read a correct history book to see what kind of man Mohammad was.
So, if you are an extremist within Islam get another religion, because you are Apostate.
This country better wake up and close its borders to Muslims. Islam is more than a religion. It is law, government and ritualized prayer and faith all rolled into one. There is no place in the United States of America for those who practice and believe in their own laws, language, customs, and allegiances with total disrespect for our way of life. This cannot be tolerated.
Aloha – you have to be a suicide bomber to be crazy? I bet I can find 20 crazy Catholics before you can find 20 crazy Muslims. I call them my in-laws.
RedDog – I apologize for not having access – hope it doesn’t prevent us from having open dialog. I know that you believe “moderate” Muslims have no influence, but that’s just not true. I should add that having worked with lots of community outreach programs, that it’s difficult to get meaningful press about anything positive you want to do, regardless of your race or religion. There was an “Arab-American community day” just two weeks ago. I sanded down a floor in a community theater in DC. Did this make the press? For that matter, did the gentleman who reported the Times Square bombing get any press? He was Muslim, why don’t we care about that?
Stubby – you invoke patriotism by saying there’s no place in the US for those who practice and believe in their own laws, language, customs and allegiances with total disrespect for our way of life. In the same paragraph you say the US should close its borders to Muslims. Given that closing borders to people who practice a particular faith is not within the Constitution, I can only assume you’d like to practice your own laws. Please pack your bags and leave immediately.
longhorn734 – Ok, I just want to make sure I understand what you’re saying.
The US Constitution is a suicide pact.
Yep, that seems simple enough.
Just imagine if, during WWII, we had allowed the Japanese and Germans to build military bases inside the continental United States. Would you have supported that????
I’m also trying to find those 20 Catholic suicide bombers that you’re describing. Just exactly where are they again????
It helps alot when assigning labels.
1983 Marine barraks, Korbar Towers, USS Cole, 1993 World Trade Center, 2001 World Trade Center, Ft. Hood.
Add all the moon god worshipers together, and you get more than 20.
Thank you for asking.
A 15-story KKK monument next to Ford’s Theatre (in mostly black DC, no less) would be a better analogy. After all, the great majority of KKK members weren’t murders or terrorists. They were just ordinary folks (like Robert Byrd) who wanted to live peacefully but were concerned about civil unrest when Federal troops left at the end of Reconstruction. Unfortunately, a Tiny Minority of Extermists have given the KKK a bad name. And I know this is the truth about the KKK because I read it in one of their pamphets.
Without the Crusades, as I once pointed out to a Protestant preacher, ‘you would be reading from the Koran, not the Christian Bible’.
This country has had freedom, safety, and prosperity for too long;this is why this multi-cultural nonsense has even had the chance to take root here.
Do they still have to be in one piece, or will the requisite number of body parts do?
Aloha, actually what happened is that you took a joke about my in-laws seriously. I don’t know how many crazy Catholics there are and I don’t know how many crazy Muslims there are. Neither do you. However, I won’t judge you or anyone else based on the actions of the crazy ones, and it would be courteous to offer the same respect in return. Not that I expect courtesy here.
By the way, what is your place in life that allows you to judge intellectual fraud, particularly based on a bad joke? Are all your judgments similarly based?
Nicely snarked sir. There’s wierd crazy and there’s suicidal/homicidal crazy. Anyone who can not tell the difference is, er…crazy.
Just curious about what you think as a Muslim about the “In your face!” sensitivity displayed by your fellow “not crazy” brethren by insisting on building such an ostentatious building funded by secret investors? Do you think Michelle’s essay has merit?
The leadership nation of Iran. I win.
I would be amazed if the various construction unions in NYC would lift a hand to build this mosque. I would also be amazed if the various mafia chieftains would give the green light. If this cannot be stopped by decent New Yorkers, then NYC deserves the horrors of 9/11′s Islamic terrorism.
Let the creepy leftist politicians play all that games they want, but let’s make sure that real Americans stop this politically correct garbage and, in doing so, recognize that the likes of Bloomberg and his political appointees need to be removed.
When the first European country falls to Islam, folks like Longhorn 743 will still be saying the same thing. He is the kind of individual who cannot distinguish right from wrong or, for that matter, liberty from slavery.
Halftime!
Phil – I addressed this above somewhere, and I in no way pretend to speak for any more than myself. I’m not blind – there’s clearly a statement being made – opening a mosque in that location on 9/11/11 is no accident. It’s bold. But having been a part of the NY Muslim community, I know that the statement has nothing to do with asserting some sort of conquest. The message has two parts. First, those who flew the plane into the WTC have NOTHING to do with the religion we practice. And the second is that the Muslim community is a positive influence on the city – involved in helping Muslims and non-Muslims alike.
Where I suspect we’ll agree to disagree is on the first statement. And if you believe the mosque and the terrorists are one and the same (I assure you, they’re not), then of course it’s insensitive.
Cordoba House is a place where Christians, and Jews were oppressed. Thousands of Jews were murdered in 1011.
Calling the 15 stroy Mosque at ground zero Cordoba House informs Americans what is really being planned by those who follow Mohammad.
*They had everything to do with the religion you practice, a 7th century invented religion of death cult savages; It is revealed for all to see, know, and understand, in the Koran and the Hadith; May the West continue to shine the light on these truths.
bjc, it’s nice to meet you too. I bet you’re a hoot at parties.
Thank you for your answer but don’t you think that the leaders of the “legitimate” Muslim community, those who understand our outrage, should be working to stop this abomination? Where are they? Why aren’t they speaking out? All I hear are lectures about American racism and intolerance? We are not the problem!
ALL of Islam has a stake in this just as in the 9/11 attack. Yet those that commit these crimes are hiding in your communities while organizing their political groups (CAIR e.g.) who are committed to defending the terrorists. Where are the “honorable” Muslim organizations?
You cannot separate the “radicals” from the “honorable” without creating a meaningful line of delineation. The “honorable” Muslims need to police the “radicals” openly or suffer the consequences of guilt by implied association. I can’t tell you apart and I am not inclined to care. Those terrorists I see in the news look just like the Muslims I used to consider friends. I don’t trust any of you any more and you aren’t giving me any reason to think otherwise. It’s called self-preservation.
This mosque is not just an insult but an intentional work of evil. The context of that evil IS rooted in the history of Islam where any land that is not ruled by Sharia law is deemed to be the “land of War”. It’s an audacious marker intended to intimidate Americans.
That most Americans (like me) feel outraged is enough. You have an existential problem if you plan to tolerated by Americans. You have a responsibility as an “honorable” Muslim to take action against these radicals. If you not only cannot protect non-Muslims from the radicals among you but refuse to see the need, you are a participant in the evil. They are in your communities, not ours. If you provide cover for terrorists, you are a terrorist. Period.
You have a choice to make. I pray you choose correctly. Tell you friends.
*The truth hurts, but political correctness kills, and I don’t indulge in PC, ever!
Longhorn734:
woof woof.
Let us pray for the salvation of all of those who live in that totalitarian darkness – pray they will discover the joy of knowing the one True God, and not the one they think we share. But until they do, let us be aware that while they preach the supremacy of the
statesharia law, declare its omnipotence over individual man, and predict its eventual domination of all peoples on the earth, they are the focus of evil in the modern world.It was C.S. Lewis who, in his unforgettable Screwtape Letters, wrote: “The greatest evil is not done now in those sordid ‘dens of crime’ that Dickens loved to paint. It is not even done in concentration camps and labor camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed, and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voice.”
Well, because these “quiet men” do not “raise their voices,” because they sometimes speak in soothing tones of brotherhood and peace, because, like other dictators before them, they’re always making “their final territorial demand,” some would have us accept them at their word and accommodate ourselves to their aggressive impulses. But if history teaches anything, it teaches that simpleminded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. It means the betrayal of our past, the squandering of our freedom.
So, I urge you to speak our against those who would place the United States in a position of military and moral inferiority. You know, I’ve always believed that old Screwtape reserved his best efforts for those of you in the church. So, in your discussions of the
nuclear freezeGround Zero mosque proposals, I urge you to beware the temptation of pride – the temptation of blithely declaring yourselves above it all and label both sides equally at fault, to ignore the facts of history and the aggressive impulses of an evil empire, to simply call thearms raceterrorist attacks a giant misunderstanding and thereby remove yourself from the struggle between right and wrong and good and evil./FTF Reagan
If mulims number around a billion world wide and only 1% are radicalized and believe in jihad against christians; How many radical islamist would that represent? Would it be 10,000,000 worldwide? Thats quite a large following. What would be the chance of a few of those radicals visiting or praising allah in the 9/11 mosque?
I love it! Fight back and give em what they claim to hate!
No, it is not insensitive…mosques and terrorists are one and the same. There is no other reason why they want ot build it here except to gloat.It is speaking power to truth.
Do your in-laws make plans to blow up shopping malls, fly planes into buildings, and talk about how in two generations they will own the EU?
If your compliant is against media attention, I suggest going to a liberal blog, since most of the media is liberal.
Or did you expect Rush Limbaugh to talk about how you sanded a floor?
You pander well to Islam. Does that make you feel tolerant and diverse?
Too bad they won’t return the favor.
LOL….you’ve got to love longhorn. I suppose he/she thinks that by sanding a floor he/she has laid a foundation for a better community. I’m sure that will convince the radicals to become one with humanity.
Leave it to a secular-arguing liberals to defend a mosque built over ground zero with shady financiers and an imam who hates the West, but they’ll make darn sure no sight of the Ten Commandments can be seen in any federal building.
Notice the chief importance of hurt Muslim feelings and how they trump all other concerns for longhorn.
How about building a huge cathedral in downtown Medina?
What? You can’t build churches in Medina?
Well, how about Riyadh??
No?
How about …
NOWHERE??? You can’t build a church ANYWHERE in Saudi Arabia???
Hmmm.
who will work on it
So VERY true.
RedDog said:
No, but you still get a cookie for effort.
He was a Palestinian Arab Nationalist and (Peaceful) Muslim leader in Jerusalem prior to, during and after WW2 and an avid fan of the Nazis. Look him up and have a good read – if it was not for this Man and his hate spewing garbage – the mid-east would most likely be a wholly different place.
So this “Slap In The Face” is to be built about 500 feet from Ground Zero as I understand?
OK then… I say FAIR is FAIR, If this is built at this location, The Catholics should be Allowed to Build a Massive Cathederal 500 feet from The Mecca Wall. I see No Problem with that.
Will they rent out the place for Bar Mitzvahs?
Will they rent it out for pig roasts?
Wow, I loved your post. I am humbled by the wise words of C. S. Lewis. We tend to forget that God is still on His throne and some of the happenings that we’re seeing are predicted. We were told to watch and pray.
But we also have the power to say no to evil when we see it clearly despite being told everything is okay.
Once again we have a choice between common sense and political correctness. I vote for common sense. Build your mosque, party-place or whatever you want to call it somewhere else, thank you.
Putting a Mosque there at ground Zero is allowing Bin Laden to dance on the graves of our 3000.
In more news from the Caliphate-on-Hudson…
Maybe…but the mohel might start at the neck…
Thanks.
You realize that it was pretty much lifted from President Reagan’s “Evil Empire” speech, I hope. All I did was tweak it here & there to make it fit the times in which we live.
Predicted? Yeah. I would say that the iron-toothed beast of Daniel 7 describes Islam pretty well.
Yikes, Rags–a moyel? Perhaps at a bris. Will they rent it out for a bris?
Whooopsi… Wrong rite of passage.
Oy…to coin a phrase…
I will be filing a complaint with Ambassador Spock of the United Federation of Planets about this. How dare anybody object to this?! Perhaps the Klingons will be instrumental in bringing all species together so we can get this mosque built as soon as possible………
Meanwhile, back in the real world on planet Earth, the voices of decency and reason are shouted down by certifiably insane liberals…
yes, sbw999. And note, no ‘moderate’ muslim appears to be shouting.
I tend to think Muslims are of 3 types: those that are overtly jihadists; those that agree with the jihadists but remain silent; and a very small percentage that do not agree with them but are terrified to speak up.
soooo, Islamic terrorism has succeeded in terrorizing other followers of Islam?
How devious.
Is this statement meant to be an esoteric, philosophical defense of “true” Islam, or an expression of Trutherism?
I do not mean to offend, but I have many muslim acuaintances who make similar, carefully-parsed statements about the 9/11 attack in order to disguise a pathological worldview.
I mean, you believe that al qaeda-affiliated terrorists brought down the towers, right?
I look at it as a future target for us Radical Christians to fly planes into. The way things are going it won’t to long before we as a nation kneel before Mecca. One problem, I won’t be one of them.