Hostage situation at Discovery Channel; alleged gunman ID’ed as “Save the Planet” enviro-nut James Jay Lee; Update: Lee shot (dead?), in custody, all hostages safe
Alleged Discovery Channel attacker James Jay Lee
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There’s been a breaking hostage situation at the Discovery Channel office in Silver Spring, MD all morning. The alleged gunman reportedly has explosives strapped to his body and there have been reports of at least one hostage. The office has been evacuated, including many children at a day care in the building.
WUSA 9, a local TV affiliate, in DC is pointing to this website called “Save the Planet Protest” as the site of the alleged gunman’s unconfirmed demands.
In case the site goes down, here’s the manifesto in full:
The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:
1. The Discovery Channel and it’s affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn’s “My Ishmael” pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other’s inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!
2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs’ places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.
3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!
4. Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is. That, and all its disgusting religious-cultural roots and greed. Broadcast this message until the pollution in the planet is reversed and the human population goes down! This is your obligation. If you think it isn’t, then get hell off the planet! Breathe Oil! It is the moral obligation of everyone living otherwise what good are they??
5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)
6. Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the whole blasted human economy. Find ways so that people don’t build more housing pollution which destroys the environment to make way for more human filth! Find solutions so that people stop breeding as well as stopping using Oil in order to REVERSE Global warming and the destruction of the planet!
7. Develop shows that mention the Malthusian sciences about how food production leads to the overpopulation of the Human race. Talk about Evolution. Talk about Malthus and Darwin until it sinks into the stupid people’s brains until they get it!!
8. Saving the Planet means saving what’s left of the non-human Wildlife by decreasing the Human population. That means stopping the human race from breeding any more disgusting human babies! You’re the media, you can reach enough people. It’s your resposibility because you reach so many minds!!!
9. Develop shows that will correct and dismantle the dangerous US world economy. Find solutions for their disasterous Ponzi-Casino economy before they take the world to another nuclear war.
10. Stop all shows glorifying human birthing on all your channels and on TLC. Stop Future Weapons shows or replace the dialogue condemning the people behind these developments so that the shows become exposes rather than advertisements of Arms sales and development!
11. You’re also going to find solutions for unemployment and housing. All these unemployed people makes me think the US is headed toward more war.
Humans are the most destructive, filthy, pollutive creatures around and are wrecking what’s left of the planet with their false morals and breeding culture.
For every human born, ACRES of wildlife forests must be turned into farmland in order to feed that new addition over the course of 60 to 100 YEARS of that new human’s lifespan! THIS IS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FOREST CREATURES!!!! All human procreation and farming must cease!
It is the responsiblity of everyone to preserve the planet they live on by not breeding any more children who will continue their filthy practices. Children represent FUTURE catastrophic pollution whereas their parents are current pollution. NO MORE BABIES! Population growth is a real crisis. Even one child born in the US will use 30 to a thousand times more resources than a Third World child. It’s like a couple are having 30 babies even though it’s just one! If the US goes in this direction maybe other countries will too!
Also, war must be halted. Not because it’s morally wrong, but because of the catastrophic environmental damage modern weapons cause to other creatures. FIND SOLUTIONS JUST LIKE THE BOOK SAYS! Humans are supposed to be inventive. INVENT, DAMN YOU!!
The world needs TV shows that DEVELOP solutions to the problems that humans are causing, not stupify the people into destroying the world. Not encouraging them to breed more environmentally harmful humans.
Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.
The humans? The planet does not need humans.
You MUST KNOW the human population is behind all the pollution and problems in the world, and YET you encourage the exact opposite instead of discouraging human growth and procreation. Surely you MUST ALREADY KNOW this!
I want Discovery Communications to broadcast on their channels to the world their new program lineup and I want proof they are doing so. I want the new shows started by asking the public for inventive solution ideas to save the planet and the remaining wildlife on it.
These are the demands and sayings of Lee.
Another D.C. tv news affiliate, WJLA, says that police scanner traffic indicates that the gunman is an “Asian male” and possible ex-employee of Discovery.
Via Mary Katharine Ham, the Save the Planet Protest website and its author — “Lee,” an Asian male — were on the radar screen of the DCist blog two years ago (link removed):
Sometime last week a friend of DCist sent in this rather hilarious web site promoting what appears to be a one-man crusade and protest against the Silver Spring, Md.-based Discovery Channel. As you can see, the singularly named “Lee,” with his faux-tough mug shot and all-caps, is dishing out a little of the old insane rambling on the cable network to promote his “Save the Planet Protest Against the Discovery Channel,” which the web site says is planned from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. for the entire week of February 15—23, 2008:
These guys have been very sneaky and deceptive as to their contribution to the planetary problems. Just look at their ‘new’ show about saving the planet, “Planet Green,” to me, it’s just another show about more PRODUCTS to make MONEY, not about actual solutions. We can’t let them get away with doing it anymore. Join me in the PROTEST AGAINST THE DISCOVERY NETWORK to get them to start broadcasting real shows that actually work to save the planet. But not just a show about THEM TELLING US WHAT LIGHTBULB TO USE, but shows where solutions are brought to the new shows from people all over with good ideas.
There’s plenty of other gems in this guy’s manifesto, but we can’t possibly quote them all. We also couldn’t quite figure out what to do with this big pile of crazy, especially since, if it wasn’t obvious from the text of the web site, a Discovery Channel employee told us that this appears to be the work of someone who is a fan of Daniel Quinn (the author mentioned at the bottom whose book would apparently fit the bill as the basis of a show the Discovery Channel should air), who is also a disgruntled, aspiring TV producer who has apparently gone off the deep end after having his pitches rejected by Discovery on several occasions. It just seemed kinda sad.
Another related article on Lee circa February 2008:
The Save the Planet protest saga has taken a dramatic turn, with its monochrome-clad leader being led away in handcuffs yesterday by the local authorities. This occurred after the police ascertained that he was creating a “potential riot scene” by “literally throwing money out of his bag” at the “pro”testers who were working for him.
Pic:
Update 2:42pm Eastern: FNC’s Trace Gallagher says gunman is identified as James Lee, who has previously protested Discovery — same as author of radical eco-website.
Here’s the Save the Planet MySpace page.
Update 2:52pm Eastern: NBC also ID’ing gunman as James Lee.
Much more background and vids from Stephen G. at Eyeblast.
***
Update 3:19pm: Law enforcement update: Shots not yet confirmed. Still negotiating with gunman after nearly an hour. Small number of hostages with him on 1st floor. Won’t confirm identity until they see him face to face.
All children safely evacuated from day care center. No reports of any injuries.
Thank goodness.
***
Update: 5:09pm Eastern WUSA 9 reporting that Lee has been shot, is now in police custody. All 3 hostages are safe.
Via Twitter, BreakingNews’s Ryan Ruggiero passes on word from NBC that Lee is dead.
Well, he wanted fewer people on the planet. Now, he’s got his wish.
***
The gunman was reportedly motivated by Al Gore’s Inconvenient Truth eco-propaganda. Guess what? I’m not playing that opportunistic blame game here. It’s not Al Gore’s fault when an enviro-nut goes off unhinged (and I’ve said that before). The blame in this case lies with the crazy man who terrorized the Discovery Channel employees. Period.
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But, damn it, some of those forest creatures are just so tasty!
Chap –
So, he represented himself. What do they say about “the man who represents himself”? . . . Oh, yeah.
if memory serves me, animal rights people broke into NIH and took some monkeys in Silver Spring, right chapoutier? They never got the primates back, if I remember correctly.
NIH is in Bethesda, which is pretty close by, but never to be confused with Silver Spring. People from Silver Spring HATE Bethesda. They are kind of like the Yankees to us Mets.
as much as we’re tempted to do what the media usually does and blame Al Gore for his movie and whoever wrote those nutball books for the actions of this doofus, we’re conservatives – Lee’s actions are the responsibility of nobody other than Lee.
Well thank you for confirming it’s not the NSA John Holdren holding the Discover Channel hostage until the world population self destructs.
It could have been.
This guy kind of reminds me of Cleavon Little from Blazing Saddles.
He’s holding himself hostage, and if the rest of us don’t agree to go die, Mr Lee is gonna get it.
Maybe the DC can get him his own show similar to whale wars.
Is it just me or does he seem to be inspired more by Charlton Heston movies?
” It’s people. Soylent Green is made out of people. They’re making our food out of people. Next thing they’ll be breeding us like cattle for food. You’ve gotta tell them. You’ve gotta tell them!”
“Take your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!”
THIS JUST IN:
(NYT) James Jay Lee chosen as the next contestant on “Dancing With the Stars.”
“There’s plenty of room for all of our wildlife…right next to the mashed potatoes!” Palin, 45
Poor guy must have gone nuts explaining to people, “You can call me James, or you can call me Jay, or you can call me Jimmy-Jay, or…”
I’m saying, the monkeys were housed in Silver Spring, funded by the NIH. Maybe you’re too young to remember the brouhaha regarding it. It was around 1981-83.
I’ve been to NIH in Bethesda. My college roommate lived in Bethesda, and mrcakes worked with NIH in the late ’90s.
Huh. Never heard about that. Wonder where that was.
More on James Lee here
http://www.blrag.com/blog/2010/9/1/more-on-james-lee.html
Looks like it is over. They shot him and and the hostages are safe.
No word on his condition.
He was just shot by police I heard.
Squirrels and electic lines.
Oh, the humanity!
http://interactive.foxnews.com/livestream/live.html?chanId=3
Stand by for the Lame Stream Media to inform us he is a RWNJ while ignoring his agenda.
Also stand by for the ACLU to sue someone for taking the shot.
If he is toast, pin a medal on the shooter because he just saved the taxpayers from having to house, feed and care for this whack job for the next several decades.
What–Whale Wars wasn’t extreme enough for him?
This Lee dude is just whackity. His politics are in a realm of their own. I assume the angle the lefty pundits and journalists will explore will be his “ties to the militant right-wing anti-immigration extremists.” Expect to see interviews with the SPLC over the next few days.
Chap, you could make a few bucks selling “SAVE THE SQUIRRELS OF COURSE” t-shirts.
Oh, now they got him? Never mind.
Don’t forget the “Parasitic Human Infant” one-sies.
Hopefully, he’s Tango Uniform. I don’t want to see his face on all the talk shows hawking his book.
Close enough to Chevy Chase too.
I went to UM in the 70s. There were a number of small labs in and around the DC area doing contract research for NIH or the CDC. Several did hemorrhagic fever research – thus the monkeys/primates.
Errah, this is why Democrats want felons to be able to vote!
How long before the Discovery Channel runs a special biography show of this guy where they’ll air his views? I can see him sitting in an orange jumpsuit, watching the TV, and whispering, “I won.”
Well, thank goodness that is over. NOw I can get back to obsessing about how Earl might mess up my holiday plans.
Well if the shooter was good enough to miss the hostages let’s hope he was good enough to hit a vital. Some people just need killin’. Lee is one.
Typical Liberal…too ignorant to change the channel.
RedDog said:
I read a book some years back called The Hot Zone — same area?
My local station stopped showing re-runs of Benny Hill.
Hmmmmm………………
Errah, here in Montgomery County MD we let guys like this off with a warning for their first violation. Thank God Mohammed and Malvo also committed crimes in VA so half of those two scumbags is no longer able to fog a mirror. The cop who shot Lee today may get charged for using undue force by not giving him a strongly worded letter and a frownny face first!
But…but…but…only white, christian, conservatives do such things – this cannot be! My mind is overloading!!!
Is it just me, or does he look familiar? It seems as if I have seen this guy’s mugshot somewhere else.
quoting:
“Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy humans…”
…of course, HE is not a filthy parasite, is he?
Hot Zone dealt with a facility in Reston, VA. About 20 miles away.
Something tells me he won’t be reproducing.
He should be happy.
I like it. I’d be tempted to buy a “Make Way for Human Filth” t-shirt.
And another eco-liberal bites the dust…
Would you say this is a mental disease? Or just looped out on being green? Or is there a difference?
I’ll bet he was heading to Fox News next to protest Hannity’s expose of the global warming hoax.
I actually kind of liked “INVENT, DAMN YOU!”
Chap, quick! Secure the publishing rights!
Am I the only one who wonders why nutcases who think the world needs a lot less people do not take themselves out of the overpopulation equation as soon as they have their revelation?
chapoutier said:
Any hemorrhagic fever should be enough to scare the living daylights out of any sane person. During my travels I saw the after affects of Marburg in East Africa and I thought having Dengue Fever was bad. Anyway, thats off topic.
Confirmed. One fewer earth-destroying human parasitic life form. Police shot and killed Lee.
Quote lifted from MSNBC.com where they quoted him re: Discovery Network:
“If their ‘environmental’ shows are actually working, then why is the news about the environment getting worse? It should be getting better if they were doing their job and we should be seeing that reflected on the nightly news. But NO! The Discovery Channel is actually not about saving the planet, they are just another ‘green’ corporation whose real interests lies in MONEY! Products! Junk! Trash!” (Emphasis mine.)
Not reflected on nightly news, huh? Of course not, they have an agenda. I guess this guy’s problem is that he was dumb enough to believe what he saw on network news.
HOORAYYYYY!!!
Let’s hope more “environmentalists” follow this guy’s lead.
I understand that the NYT’s front page story tomorrow will be how alarmists like Al Gore and other “Save the Earth” lib nuts may have caused this man to go looney tunes. Nancy Pelosi is calling for closer scrutiny by the Dept of Homeland Security of environmental activists. And NBC, CBS, and ABC will be conducting in-depth interviews at the scene, to get to the bottom of what this guy was all about, exploring the connection between his crime and his eco-fanaticism. Stay tuned for more developments!
The moron had bombs. One went off as they killed him.
Okay, so now he’s dead. I still don’t regret my quips all that much. In all seriousness, this incident defines the undiluted version of the word “extremism.” The next time a manifesto like Lee’s appears, we shouldn’t dismiss it as being written by some “sad” yet “hilarious” goofball.
That works, too. I think Lee’s point backfired. (That last sentence was rhetorical.)
Certainly, but it’s just a variation on the typical leftist/Democrat brain defect.
Guys like Lee have a type of the defect that doesn’t let them see they should lie. It’s like they all think they’ve been ‘abducted by space aliens,’ but some are too stupid to keep quiet about it.
They’re all just as looney toons as Lee, but unless they get some kind of social/political power the Lee type are more dangerous.
If you doubt this, just reflect on how truly whacked out moral relativism is. On its face. “All morality comes from the culture. There is no higher law.” So other people are supposed to listen to the dictates of their culture, but I’ll do what’s best for me, and if that conflicts with what the culture is telling me (guilt feelings or stuff like that), then I know I can ignore it since it’s only my ethnocentric obsessions trying to undo me.
Yeah. Like that will work really well for a society.
They’re all just plain nuts.
Well, that goes too far.
God forgive him, and comfort his family.
I suppose you and God will be talking about that sometime.
+1000
If you get down to hos core argument, Humans are the problem no matter what and the only solution s to kill them off one way or another.
I wonder if Lee had a plan B in case plan A failed?
If Glenn Beck is supposedly guilty for inciting Conservatives to non-existent violence, did Al Gore then incite this guy to actual violence?
You do not understand. This was well meaning violence by a poor lost soul who misunderstood algore’s message. Beck is inciting vicious Republican types with guns to do bad things because they are bad people who shoot bunny rabbits for fun.
There is no comparison as anyone in the lamestream media can and do tell you.
the Institute of Behavioral Research in Silver Spring. .
Plan B went off when they shot him in the Plan A.
He wasn’t a libtard OR conservatard. He was just plain bonkers.
Not sure God can forgive him after he is dead. I do feel for the family. That being said, I am glad he is not in the legal system. Tax payers need a break.
He knew about the human farming. There was only one way this could have ended.
Well, dayum. See the first link in Ace’s post. These people are pathetically predictable.
I guess I missed your comment, FJP, and Think Progress proved our point before we even made it. As you said—predictable.
Now Al Gore has blood on his hands.
Apparently his own family has wanted nothing to do with him since he started these insane protests. I heard a news (FOX) report that included his brother being asked if he was capable of killing someone. His brother answered “definitely”. He wasn’t being cold, he just thought his brother had gone over the edge and was desperate to make a name for himself. He had an insatiable need to be important.
Sounds like me commenting on other people’s blogs. I need some serious couch time.
Froggies? Was he watching Sponge Bob again?
RIP James Lee, may you find the peace in the afterlife that your tortured brain did not afford you in this one. Thankfully you did not injure others.
Hmm, his brother knew he was dangerous? Did he report him to the authorities? Shades of Columbine.
The unabombers brother implicated his own kin after reading the “manifesto”.
This is what I read.
Of course this guy was a libtard. Saying he was a nutjob does not preclude that.
As a father, I find his remarks regarding children to be the remarks of a monster. While I do not rejoice in his one-way trip to hell, I’m glad that filth is not polluting this planet any longer.
chap:
Hey Chap…so I’m pressing all of the intercom buttons…why isn’t anyone buzzing me in?
Actually, that’s not really that funny.
IF this guy was mentally ill versus being just an evil person, I have a hard time believing he’ll go to hell.
That certainly doesn’t sound like the God I know. I’m positive God won’t care if he’s liberal or not.
If he was mentally ill(even in 2010), he’s better off dead anyway.
Here’s some random quotes from Bill McKibben in a story published this week called
CONGRESS REFUSED TO ACT ON GLOBAL WARMING,SO IT’S UP TO US.
Maybe not the the instigation that drove this nutter over the edge, but maybe enough for the next one.
Lee was NOT a nut or crazy. He was a militant environmentalist that believed violence would get his agenda published on Discovery TV networks. If Lee heard voices he then could be classified as crazy or a nut. Just saying…
Forget talking about mental illness.
That’s a cop out.
And there isn’t a pinch of difference between the population control rantings of Discovery Channel Channel gunman James Lee and the writings of Obama science advisor John Holdren, Climate Progress author Joe Romm, or whom ever is responsible for Think Progress.
These are evil people.
This is from zombietime
On September 01, 2010 at 09:29 pm, moonshot said:
I don’t buy that this guy was legitimately mentally ill. He was a nutjob in the sense of not thinking straight, but I don’t think it was due to a mental defect, but rather due to leftist indoctrinitation.
My sister works at discovery. Although she was not at one discovery plaza, I was quite concerned for her colleagues. A nut job is a nut job. Glad that no innocents were hurt.
You got that right.
People confuse mental illness and evil because one blurs into yhe other. At what point does ‘hearing voices’ excuse one from the consequences of having acted on what those voices told them?
This guy was competent enough to do what he did. He sought out people over whom to exercise power. In any sane society not bent on suicide that should negate any ‘I was crazy’ defense. He was morally responsible, no matter how jangled his wiring was.
Gore’s lies are along the same scope and magnitude of lies from Joseph Goebbels. They are intended to get people worked up, angry and ready to ACT. Just the other day Gore told his lunatic eco-nazi followers that they had to take it to the streets
No one would deny that Joseph Goebbels shared a substantial portion of responsibility for the hateful actions against Jews by Hitler’s followers – who but the radical left will deny that Al Gore shares some responsibility for the hateful actions of this lunatic follower of CAGW?
To me the similarity is frightening.
Somebody needs to design a t-shirt that says
All human procreation must cease STARTING WITH YOU
Could be a big seller.
Perhaps they are jealous. Used to work in both, less crime, better shops and better resturants in Bethesda. MD was trying to revive the city, don’t know how that is going, but City Place Mall was so bad the rent was almost free to offset the shiplifting problem. Residential areas (most) were okay, but downtown, not so much.
I’m trying hard to understand this post. Wow.
One less expensive trial with a ultra-Liberal lawyer trying to get a criminal back on the street again, or in Jail costing even more. He doesn’t look like one of the ACLU’s favorites so hopefully they won’t sue the police and Jessie and Al won’t call for protests and try to shakedown the city, county and state. What a world it is these days……
“Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order.”
I thought they already did “The Newlywed Game.”
What, TOO SOON?!!!
sounds a lot like the mentality that flew planes into the WTC, Pentagon & a field in Pennsylvania.
Bethesda is more upscale, but not necessarily better. I don’t know how long it has been since you have been to Downtown Silver Spring, but we have a very decent restaurant scene (not quite as good as Bethesda, but definitely as varied and certainly can be in the same conversation), one of the best film houses in the country (AFI Silver), a theater house, and groundbreaking literally as I type this on what is promised to be a pretty great live music venue.
We also have free concerts and festivals just about every week during the summer hours (many more than Bethesda), a pretty decent farmers market every Saturday throughout the year, a really good annual, and free, jazz festival (Aaron Neville headlining this year) and, most importantly, a Zombie Walk.
And our access to public transportation is better than Bethesda, as well as the major highways being more accessible.
City Place is however still pretty sorry. They just can’t seem to figure out what to do with that space.
All of this for about 2/3 the price of living in Bethesda.
It’s GREAT to see our law enforcement system can deal effectively with AMERICAN TERRORISTS. McVey has been dirt napping for a decade, and this guy got his desire for Immortality. I SURE AS HELL WISH THAT SAME LEGAL SYSTEM COULD DEAL AS EFFECTIVELY WITH TERRORISTS WHO COME INTO THIS COUNTRY FROM AFAR AND KILL AND THREATEN US.
Whoa there Pilgrim, terrorists simply want to destroy us – so a hearty welcome. This man loved squirrels – kill, kill, kill!!!!
Nice digs, chap. Where do you park? Is there a garage in the basement?
There is, but I don’t own a car.
If you don’t mind me asking, why not? You don’t exactly live in the city.
Downtown SS is quite urban, and is in fact one of the largest public transportation hubs anywhere in the DC area. There is very little in terms of necessities and/or entertainment that isn’t within a .5 mile walk. This includes: 3 grocery stores (including a Whole Foods), several pharmacies, around 100 restaurants/eateries of every ethnicity and price point, a Borders, a large cineplex, an artsy movie theater, liquor and wine stores, a small departmnt store, several parks, a hardware store…
When I do need a car, we use zipcar.We spend, on average about $100-$125 a month total on zipcar. This includes gas and insurance. Alternativly, it would cost $75 a month just for a parking space if we owned. Sometimes it would be nice to own, but overall I haven’t missed all the cost and maintenance.