The Koran: Don’t burn it. Read it.
Provocateur pastor Terry Jones is getting his 15 minutes of fame with a “burn-the-Koran” day. The media and politicians are providing him with plenty of attention oxygen. Our America-bashing State Department has dubbed his First Amendment-protected exercise of fame-seeking “un-American.” And the usual grievance-mongers are doing their thing.
Gen. Petraeus says the provocation endangers the troops. But what’s in the Koran is far more of an inflammatory threat to American soldiers than any match with which to light it. What’s in the Koran has inspired decades of bloody warfare by Muslim operatives targeting our troops, civilians, and Western infidels around the world.
Don’t take my word for it. Take the time to re-read Ft. Hood massacre suspect and Muslim avenger Nidal Hasan’s own powerpoint presentation on “The Koranic World View As It Relates to Muslims in the U.S. Military.”
Slide 11:
Slide 12:
Slide 35:
Slide 42:
Slide 43:
Slide 48:
Instead of burning the Koran, Americans need to be reading it, understanding it, and educating themselves about the Koran passages, Islamic history, and jihadi context that brought us to this 9th anniversary year of the 9/11 attacks.
Flashback: It’s In the Koran…
Reminder via Timothy Furnish in the Middle East Quarterly:
Groups such as Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi’s Al-Tawhid wa al-Jihad (Unity and Jihad) and Abu ‘Abd Allah al-Hasan bin Mahmud’s Ansar al-Sunna (Defenders of [Prophetic] Tradition)[10] justify the decapitation of prisoners with Qur’anic scripture. Sura (chapter) 47 contains the ayah (verse): “When you encounter the unbelievers on the battlefield, strike off their heads until you have crushed them completely; then bind the prisoners tightly.”[11] The Qur’anic Arabic terms are generally straightforward: kafaru means “those who blaspheme/are irreligious,” although Darb ar-riqab is less clear. Darb can mean “striking or hitting” while ar-riqab translates to “necks, slaves, persons.” With little variation, scholars have translated the verse as, “When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks.”[12]
For centuries, leading Islamic scholars have interpreted this verse literally. The famous Iranian historian and Qur’an commentator Muhammad b. Jarir at-Tabari (d. 923 C.E.) wrote that “striking at the necks” is simply God’s sanction of ferocious opposition to non-Muslims.[13] Mahmud b. Umar az-Zamakhshari (d. 1143 C.E.), in a major commentary studied for centuries by Sunni religious scholars, suggested that any prescription to “strike at the necks” commands to avoid striking elsewhere so as to confirm death and not simply wound.[14]
Many recent interpretations remain consistent with those of a millennium ago. In his Saudi-distributed translation of the Qur’an, ‘Abdullah Yusuf ‘Ali (d. 1953) wrote that the injunction to “smite at their necks,” should be taken both literally and figuratively. “You cannot wage war with kid gloves,” Yusuf ‘Ali argued.[15] Muhammad Muhammad Khatib, in a modern Sunni commentary bearing the imprimatur of Al-Azhar university in Cairo, says that while traditionalist Muslims tend to see this passage as only applying to the Prophet’s time, Shi’ites “think it is a universal precept.”[16] Ironically, then in this view, Zarqawi has adopted the exegesis of his religious nemeses. Perhaps the most influential modern recapitulation of this passage was provided by the influential Pakistani scholar and leading Islamist thinker S. Abul A’ la Mawdudi (d. 1979), who argued that the sura provided the first Qur’anic prescriptions on the laws of war. Mawdudi argued
Under no circumstances should the Muslim lose sight of this aim and start taking the enemy soldiers as captives. Captives should be taken after the enemy has been completely crushed.[17]
Accordingly, for soldiers of Islam, victory should be the only consideration. Status of prisoners of war was open to interpretation. Mawdudi maintained that the verse did not clearly forbid execution of prisoners but that “the Holy Prophet understood this intention of Allah’s command, and that if there was a special reason for which the ruler of an Islamic government regarded it as necessary to kill a particular prisoner (or prisoners), he could do so.”[18] As do many Islamists, Mawdudi cited historical examples of the Prophet Muhammad ordering the execution of prisoners, such as some Meccans captured at the Battle of Badr in 624 C.E. and at least one Meccan seized at the Battle of Uhud in the following year. While such examples do not directly address decapitation, they do allow for murder of prisoners-of-war. Mawdudi’s interpretation, though, does not sanction the execution of hostages. Only the government, and not individual Muslim soldiers, could determine the fate of captives.[19]
Another, albeit less-frequently, cited Qur’anic passage also sanctions beheadings of non-Muslims. Sura 8:12 reads: “I will cast dread into the hearts of the unbelievers. Strike off their heads, then, and strike off all of their fingertips.” In the original text, the relevant phrase is adrabu fawq al-’anaq, “strike over their necks.” This verse is, then, a corollary to Sura 47:3. Yusuf ‘Ali is one of the few modern commentators who addresses this passage, interpreting it as utilitarian: the neck is among the only areas not protected by armor, and mutilating an opponent’s hands prevents him from again wielding his sword or spear.[20] The point of this opening phrase—to “cast dread” or, as some translations have it, “instill terror”—has now been adopted by Islamist terrorists to justify decapitation of hostages…
…Islamic civilization is not a historical anomaly in its sanction of decapitation.[36] The Roman Empire beheaded citizens (such as the Christian Saint Paul) while they crucified noncitizens (such as Jesus Christ). French revolutionaries employed the guillotine to decapitate opponents. Nevertheless, Islam is the only major world religion today that is cited by both state and non-state actors to legitimize beheadings. And two major aspects of decapitation in an Islamic context should be noted: first, the practice has both Qur’anic and historical sanction. It is not the product of a fabricated tradition. Second, in contradiction to the assertions of apologists, both Muslim and non-Muslim, these beheadings are not simply a brutal method of drawing attention to the Islamist political agenda and weakening opponents’ will to fight. Zarqawi and other Islamists who practice decapitation believe that God has ordained them to obliterate their enemies in this manner. Islam is, for this determined minority of Muslims, anything but a “religion of peace.” It is, rather, a religion of the sword with the blade forever at the throat of the unbeliever.
Related: The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims
Related: The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America
DrewM at Ace of Spades (h/t commenter J.J.):
Another interesting byproduct of this situation is once again the disconnect between the “Islam equals peace” rhetoric and the reality people see on a daily basis. If Islam is so peaceful and only a “tiny minority’ of Muslims are “violent extremists”, why do we constantly have to be so damn sensitive to pissing them off?
When the whole Piss Christ thing happened Christians were told to suck it up and shut up. I don’t remember anyone worrying about marauding bands of Presbyterians going on a murder spree over it. But when it comes to cartoons or a bunch of loons (a true ‘tiny minority) burning some books, the world has to go on red alert if it involves Islam. Why is that exactly?
***
More: Muslim writer Asra Nomani proposes burning a few, choice deadly passages in the Koran.
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Just curious…how do you possibly interact with Muslims if you believe this? What do you do if your coworker is a Muslim? I would have a hard time working with someone I thought was planning to kill me.
I dont agree that burning Holy Books of any religion is constructive at any time, but especially the Holy Book of nut-job Muslims. I hope our troops do not suffer while this Florida guy exercises his right to free speech. If only the loud mouths (with the exception of Patreus who is just looking out for the troops) out there would get so worked up when the crucifix appears as “art” in a jar of urine, or the Virgin Mary is depicted covered in feces, or the American Flag is burned etc. Flipping hypocrites.
Thank you for saving me the trouble.
Seems like some posters here would likely believe that the sun rises in the west; or, that things fall up.
L’shanah Tovah all…
If burning a book sends someone over the edge and turns them into a jihadist,then you can believe that person was NOT a “moderate Muslim” and was already moving rapidly in the direction of the precipice, and never that far from the edge to begin with…
And General Petraeus statement is a bit like Ike claiming that Americans burning “Mein Kampf” or saying bad things about Hitler would make NAZIs want to kill American soldiers.
THEY WERE ALREADY KILLING AMERICAN SOLDIERS AND ALREADY PLANNING TO KILL AMERICAN SOLDIERS!
Yes, that poster thinks it is a joke.
That poster sounds exactly like the stereotypical opposite-worldview holder whose main debating tactic is ridicule; sounds just like a holdover from the 60s “scene”, or a later wannabe.
There was some seriousness in the post. It’s hard for me to believe that the Muslims I have interacted with throughout my life (including the kids at my high school) all want to kill me
Good distillation.
How many Christians would you guess are living – deceptively – completely contrary to the tenets of their religion, because their religion teaches that deception is good if it helps their religion; as opposed to living contrary to the tenets of their religion because they find their religion say, inconvenient for them, or hard for them, or not fun for them?
In “the clutch”, when the jihadi savages are attacking you, either with a lawsuit, or intimidation, or with weapons; would you trust these muslims you went to school with to go to great, extreme risk to themselves to defend your property, your reputation, your livelihood, your life…against their co-ideologists?
So, moderate Muslims are just deceiving us?
This is an old Conspiracy theory trick. There is absolutely no way to prove you wrong if you make such an assertion.
I wouldn’t trust about 99% of the population to do this for me.
Turkey??? Turkey???
You do know that in the last century millions of Christians have “disappeared” from Turkey? One hundred years ago, 20-25% of Turkey’s population was Christian. Today it is less than 1%.
Disagreeing publically with Islam in “moderate” Turkey will get you prosecuted by the government for “insulting Turkishness” — if your “moderate” Muslim neighbors let you live long enough, that is.
I loved the last few posts of granite and ragspierre! Agreed wholeheartedly.
What I wonder (rhetorically) is: just when so-called moderate muslims will denounce said violent Commands of mohammed/islam…won’t they then become the radicals of their religion?!
p.s. bluesoc = INGSOC
i.e. assume the opposite, to be ignored
And I am not asking that a negative be proven, which I know is virtually, if not actually, an impossibility.
I just refuse to gamble with my and my family’s well-being when faced with an enemy ideology that 1400 years ago declared war on everything and everybody else that was/is not of their ideology.
If you want to trust them, that’s your decision.
I would not advise it; but, it is your decision.
I can’t imagine you’ve ever had a meaningful relationship with a Muslim.
Is your thesis that all Muslims living in peace are just a 5th column?
‘Cause that sounds…you know…insane…
I’m old enough to remember hearing that kind of thing about “Papists”.
I have Muslim coworkers. Remember a true believer does not have to kill me. They want to convert me first. But if they are true believers , they would kill me in a heartbeat or at least support my demise. Not everyone can be a killer but they can donate money to the cause and feel good about it because their religion says its ok. They like death more than we like life.
The Muslims I work with drink alcohol, dance, curse, wear revealing clothing, etc. They are not true believers as this behavior is prohibited by the Koran. They grew up in Muslim countries and just like everyone else there became Muslims as a tradition or to avoid death or dhimitude. They may be conflicted now that they have some freedom living in the US. I don’t know.
I do know if they claim to be a Muslim, then I better watch my back because the teachings of Islam require them to fight the infidel and that means me. If they don’t follow the teachings, they are not a true believer anyway so who knows what they really think.
Isn’t this what you and Rags are getting at. That there are “Christians” that don’t follow all the teachings of the Bible or Papal decree, etc. There are moderate Muslims who don’t follow the teachings of the Koran. Or are there? What sect of Islam is that exactly? The wahtsupdoc sect? I have no doubt there are many Muslims who don’t agree or even know about their religion. So what. If they say they are a Muslim, then I take that to mean they support jihad and my conversion or death. If they want to change that, then show me they mean it. Get some fatwas issued. Have Islamic scholars reinterpret the Koran. Start a moderate movement for Christs sake. (Sorry couldn’t resist).
I am not going to be fooled so they would have a tough sell. A few fatwas denouncng violent jihad and a global caliphate woud be a nice start. I won’t hold my breath. Don’t blame me. Blame the messenger. (Mohammad).
Wow, Rags!
That comment very much resembles the type of comment that the folks you disagree with and debate here so often post – including the insult!
My point – “thesis” – is that deception – taqiyya – is not considered wrong in islam, if it is used in jihad against non-muslims.
I would bet the house, the car, and our firstborn that there are many muslim jihadi “sleepers” who are living deceptively in the west, including here in the U.S., in order to take part in a jihad act – shooting, killing, explosion, some violent act of war – in the future.
As far as I am aware, no Christians are living deceptively anywhere to do such things.
Please let me know if I am wrong.
There were numerous reports in the media of Atta and al-Shehhi going to Shuckum’s Oyster Pub and Seafood Grill, a sports bar in Hollywood, Florida, on September 8, 2001. Atta, al-Shehhi, and a third unidentified man reportedly drank heavily and played the Golden Tee ’97 arcade game there.[85] The bartender said “Atta drank vodka and orange juice, while Al-Shehhi preferred rum and cokes, five drinks apiece.
Link
granite;
I didn’t say you were insane. I said that thesis…if that was what you were suggesting…was insane.
We could draw LOTS of parallels in history (cf, Japan during WWII, Germany, the Soviets, etc).
While what you SEEM to be saying has some verity (taqiyya is real), do you really mean to take it to the extreme you seem to?
Cannot disagree.
I’ve worked and “interacted” with a modest number of muslims, who have all seemed nice and pleasant.
One even told me that centuries ago, in Macedonia, his formerly Christian family converted to islam to survive (he drew his finger across his neck).
At present, muslims are a thankfully relatively small minority in our country.
Therefore, nonmuslims who don’t want to think such thoughts have the luxury of not having to worry about, or be suspicious about, their muslim neighbors.
I interact civilly and pleasantly with the muslims that I have met.
I do not trust them, and will not trust them until I am given real, hard evidence that shows me why I should trust them.
Because of 1400 years of islam’s war against everything and everyone else, the burden of proof is not on me to show why I should not trust them;
the burden of proof is on muslims to show why they should be trusted.
Dexter;
The Ft. Hood killer (can’t remember names) was also a big patron of a local “gentleman’s club”.
Does that show these guys are misters at deception, or they have some REAL bad problems with repressed urges?
Rags, it has to do with on whom do you believe the burden of proof lies.
And, I think the parallels you would draw pale to insignificance when compared to islam’s 1400 years’ of war against everything and everyone else.
Apologies.
So, a hardline Muslim takes the word “dread” in this passage to mean “terror”. That’s why they believe it is ok to commit terrorist acts against unbelievers. But a moderate, peace-loving Muslim just wants to cast fear into our hearts. Maybe that’s why moderate Muslims will often celebrate the acts of terrorism committed by their hardline brothers but are reluctant to commit the acts themselves.
A hardline Muslim is one who would strike off my head and then mutilate my corpse by striking off my fingertips. But a moderate Muslim is one who would just strike me on the neck as a rebuke and as a show of dominance. Then he would cut off my fingertips to prevent me from ever being able to wage war against him. It’s just his way of bringing peace between us.
There really does appear to be a difference between how hardline Muslims and moderates treat unbelievers who don’t follow the Koran. One would choose to inflict a horrible death upon us, and the other would choose to torture and subjugate us. I don’t really welcome either option. Please explain why I should be tolerant of anyone who wishes to behead me, torture me, or subjugate me. It’s like asking blacks to show tolerance for the KKK
by voting for the Exalted Cyclops Robert Bird.Perhaps the left would have been more supportive of President Bush if he had respected Muslim culture by authorizing the CIA to strike off the fingertips of captured terrorists instead of waterboarding them. And any Muslims who called it torture or spoke out against such treatment, would be stoned by hardliners for speaking out against the holy teachings of Islam.
Wow. That’s some mighty religious bigotry right there. I’d hope the rest of the MM commenters don’t feel the same way, but, until they condemn such bigotry, I’ll have to assume they do.
MICHELLE MALKIN COMMENTERS HATE ALL MUSLISMS AND THINK THEY’RE ALL MURDERS. anyone who doesn’t feel this way should condemn it immediately.
And that overlooks the history of Islamic countries during the first half of the last century…before the radicalization of the Muslim Brotherhood.
If you want a great pictorial exposition of that, Phyllis Cheslear (sp dubious) over at PJM has an excellent one.
Back off, punk.
People here don’t need to jump your hoops.
I guess I should have used a *sarc tag. (though I stand by granite being a religious bigot)
The military is fighting for this man’s right to do what he is doing. To say he needs to restrict his speech to protect the troops is laughable.
This guy is not important. It is a book, paper.
Why do people care what he does? If it bothers you, don’t watch. He’s not violating anyone else’s rights by burning these books.
The left appears to see tolerance as a one-way street. They demand that we show tolerance to muslims by respecting their first amendment right to build a mosque overlooking ground zero. But they show little tolerance for Americans who speak out against the mosque. They demand that they shutup, and even accuse them of formenting violence. But, aren’t both sides entitled to exercise their first amendment rights? Why should there only be tolerance for one side?
The left not only tolerates, but enjoys and sometimes participates in the burning of the American flag or the bible, or dipping an image of Christ in urine, or molding an image of the Virgin Mary in dung. They applaud Bill Ayers when he stomps on the flag and demand tax money for “artists” who desecrate sacred Christian beliefs and symbols. If you oppose them then you are intolerant and against the first amendment. But try burning the Koran or the Mexican flag. Try requesting tax money to do a painting of Mohammed, or to dip the koran in urine. Suddenly the first amendment no longer applies and you are the one who is intolerant, not them. I’m tired of the double standard. Those who want tolerance should be tolerant.
Billspit. What if he was giving away troop positions, or propagandizing for killing soldiers in their homes?
You aren’t even thinking about what you’re writing.
While I do not agree with the actions, I fully support Rev. Jones INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS and FREEDOM OF SPEECH to do the immolation of the koran.
For years, the tranzi statists have decried that Christ in a jar or urine is art, an expression of the “artist’s” freedom of expression needing my tax dollars for support.
For years, I have witnessed the Tranzi statists bestow upon the unwashed a right to burn my beloved flag as an expression of “thier freedom of speech and expression”. The SCOTUS defined this free speech as constitutional. Given the option of burning a book or a flag
Now the Tranzi Statists are telling me that this is wrong, that the burning of the koran should not be tolerated. What will they attempt…write another unconstituional law so they can have thier damn cake and eat mine too?
For years, we all have witnessed videotapes of the parties in the Middle East burning our Flag, or other effigy. Somehow, I do not think that the Moslem terrorists need any reason to incite violence against the West. CAIR’s allegorical description of this becoming an American Kristalnacht are unfounded and ridiculous in the extreme.
But the koran should be read. Sun Tzu warned all to know the enemy you are fighting. Patton, as well as other successful military leaders realized this important point.
As John Stuart Mills aptly described in Liberty, Free Speech does have limits such as yelling “Fire” in a crowded theater. We are amidst an undeclared war with radical islamic jihadists trying to kill us. Pondering what the action will do to upset the rural moslem folk in Afganistan or Pakistan is meaningless. Iran? Hell, the only information the masses get is what the mullahs agree to show for propaganda. If anyone knows fo a fact that this is not so, speak up and debate. Otherwise, have a steaming cup of STFU and go away. I am tired of hearing the whining and diversion from the tranzi.
Cry Havoc! And let slip the dogs of war.
Kind of big talk.
I listened to a young soldier today say the opposite…that people in-country were often well-informed…especially of negative things…happening in the U.S.
Reckon I’ll default to him…
Rags: Granted technology changes and allows the news outside the city. Wasn’t too long ago I was there myself, but I will defer to the young soldier as well.
Still, explain to me why the Moslem Jihadist need yet another “reason” to kill the westerner.
Explain to me how immolation of the koran changes anything.
Come talk to the Muslims who live where I do.
When Muslims stop burning Bibles in Yemen, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Morocco, and other extremist Muslim nations where its a crime to be a Christian, then maybe I’ll speak out against the Dove Outreach Center for burning bibles. It’s the sameas this Mosque that many deluded Americans are tryign to see built near Ground Zero: When a church is openly built and sanctioned by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and non-Muslims allowed to visit the Kaabah, I’ll sup@port a Mosque near Ground Zero….
Correction: I’ll speak out agsaint the Dove Outreach Center for Burning Qu’Rans when those nations I mentioned stop burning Bibles and killing or imprisoning the Christians who carried them….
Come anytime. I have never seen them have an Islamic fest. They have mosque events for their members like we have church dinners, etc. There is Mideast food during our Ethnic fest. That’s awesome. Lamb, Lefsa, sweet potatoe pie, krumb kaka, corn beef and cabbage, bratwurst, kumla, borscht, and Vietnamese sessame beef all in one place. Now we’re talking.
Several of them own the best restaraunts around. I have a friend who will also introduce you to several of them. What is interesting about my friend is he is a Leabonese Christian who fought in a milita and came here in the 1980′s. He fought Hezbolla, but these Muslims like his Leabonese neighgors back in the old country are his friends.
He has lots of business clients who are Greek Orthodox, Muslim and WASP’s like me. One customer is an older fellow from Iran, a Muslim, who has served as a civilian in Iraq helping the Army and the Iraqis.
We are all Americans and love where we live. You can bring anything you want, but I suggest you also bring an appetite. The food’s great.
If their religon was so wonderful they could let Christians do their thing all day long. But they don’t.
Bottom line is Christianity scares them to death. Keep that thought close to you. It’s important.
But you haven’t read the Koran or you might see a granite of truth in what he is saying. Truth is not bigotry. If anyone is a bigot in this situation, it is the Muslim who is bigoted toward the non believer. Oh, and did I mention it is written in the Koran to be that way?
Some people can’t see the truth because it is obscured by their own blindness.
Google Robert Spencer and read some of his sura by sura on the Koran. Or buy the Koran and start reading it. It won’t take you long to come across some real bigoted passages concerning Jews. And you will see plenty of it so if you disdain bigotry, the Muslims have some ‘splaining to do. Then maybe you will have the inner light to see things more clearly and will be able to ask your Muslim friends the right questions. Read it my friend (channeling John McCain).
OK, so reading through the 240+ comments we have 9/11 terrorists yukking it up with screwdrivers and video games a few days before getting their virgins or being the main course in the fiery pit depending on your viewpoint. We’ve got folks claiming “Christian” as their religion doing all manner of illegal and unconstitutional things (and that’s just in Congress *rimshot*).
So here’s the query setup: burn a bible and no one worries about the Christian next door as the vast, vast, vast majority of Christians currently and throughout most of history wouldn’t be pleased by your death over it. Burn a koran and we’re told it may turn our peaceful, fun-loving, food-sharing Muslim neighbors into jihadists.
Really? Over one person burning one book? How peaceful do you really believe those flag football players are if you’re scared what they’ll do if you let someone burn their book?
You can stand by whatever the hell you please.
I merely am accepting reality.
Islam is an ideology, not a religion; that for 1400 years has been, and continues today, to wage war against evrything and everyone else.
I intend not to submit.
I intend not to be fooled.
I intend to survive.
I intend for my civilization not to be conquered, but rather for it to be victorious.
When the islamic countries were militarily hopelessly weak;
before they amassed massive wealth from the sale of oil;
and before the will of western civilization had been emasculated and seriously compromised by its domestic enemies.
Why else do you think islam was not on the attack during that period?
Just like the Medina period…huh Granite
A jihadist does not need any reason.
But there are millions of NOT-jihadists who don’t need to be provoked by stupid actions of camera-whores in the West.
Or does that component of human nature not apply?
I think I’ve already answered that.
You didn’t bother to look up the reference I gave you, did you?
There was a time, not long ago, when there were pluralistic nations, doing VERY well, in the ME. Or have you forgotten?
This is government is using intimidation to keep somebody from doing something legal but reprehensible.
It doesn’t matter if the Pastor made a bonfir or, wished to BBQ pork chops using the Quran for coals…
…this is a simple denial of a person’s and groups 1st Amendment rights of free expression.
Government officials (e.g.; AG Holder, SOS Clinton, SOD Gates) have all weighed in about this Pastor regarding the “wisdom” of what this Pastor wishes to do, but not his right to do so.
How can this Obama regime on one hand; claim they’ve not judged the wisdom of the Hamasque and only it’s 1st Amendment protected legality that enflamed and insulted masses…
While on the other hand; this same Obama regime refused to acknowledge this Pastor’s 1st Amendment rights to do what he wishes to, while freely excoriating his “wisdom” publicly?
That’ messed up.
Liberals are scared of Muslims, which is exactly what Muslims intend to accomplish.
Liberal shirk away from voter intimidation when the voter isn’t one of theirs (e.g; the Black Panthers)
Liberals here are shirking away from a person’s 1st Amendment rights of free speech being denied (the Pastor) and they openly ridiculed him cuz the person whose rights have been denied, isn’t again one of the liberals.
The left for decades were proud to have claim themselves the champions of the 1st Amendment and free speech defending Flag Burners, Sinead O’Connor ripping up a picture of the Pope, Neo-Nazis marching in Skokie; a village of mostly Jewish residents, they defended Serrano’s art called ‘Piss Cross’ wherein the artist using a public tax grant produced art pieces of an Crucifix immersed in his urine…
But the left dislikes this Pastors ideas and free speech. Therefore, the left is M.I.A. here.
This fringe American Pastor wishes to burn some books and too much of America is aghast before he’s done so.
When several fringe Muslims murdered 3,000 people on 911 in 4 hijacked jets, the vast majority of the Muslim worldwide, rejoiced in jubilation.
Some perspective is sorely needed here
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The ones in Europe seem awfully terrified of Christianity, too, don’t you think? Also like those poor muslims in Africa always murdering Christians because Christianity is so scary.
Did it never occur to you you might be getting a very narrow and unrepresentative view of what the vast majority of the world’s muslims’ values are really like?
Keep that thought close to you. It’s really important.
In your opinion, perhaps.
Wow, Rags.
You’re sounding more and more like the nasty posters you’re usually jousting with.
I believe you, in your posts, tell your debate adversaries to post documenting links.
I did not see a link with your statement about Phyllis chesler and PJM.
But, I searched anyway, and found a “hit” like, “The Jihadist Is Always the Victim.”
But, nothing about Mideast nations during the 1st half of the 20th century.
And certainly nothing by Chesler about what great places mideast nations were during that period.
Do you have the link?
Like Lebanon, which the muslims tore apart and then took over after the civil war there ~30 years ago?
Like Iran, home of the shiite (not muslim brotherhood) islamic “revolution’?
Like Turkey, that has strangled its Christian Greek and Armenian population?
Like Egypt, which is doing the same to its Christian Copts?
Do you have other examples of what I might have forgotten?
So…if this guy doesn’t burn the koran will the imam rauf respond with the same?
Obama was quick to affirm the Mosque near Ground Zero’s legality.
Obama as very clear that he didn’t wish to comment about the “wisdom” of the Mosque near Ground Zero regardless that masses find it distasteful.
Obamas top Cabinet members have publicly ridiculed the “wisdom” of this Pastor’s desires as “idiotic” and “disgraceful.”
Obamas top Cabinet members as well as liberals are unwilling to defend this Pastor’s 1st Amendment legal right to express what he thinks, regardless how distasteful it may be.
___‹^›__‹(•¿•)›__‹^›___
Since Obama didn’t refer to the mosque as idiotic we must now assume he’s on board!
Nope…they’re apostates that must be killed!
The same can be said for any poster out here; you included.
Your opinion, my opinion and two dollars will get us two cups of coffee.
What’s your next astute observation?
Sorry I don’t have access to the CIA data and NSA intercepts so yes, I have a narrow view. If you have a K12 downlink can you share?
Angela Merkel honors anti-Muslim provocateur with press award.
Why can’t we be more like Merkel? Apparently, this was a necessary provocation while Terry Jones’ was unnecessary so I’m sure McPalin approves.
Hmmm. “Unnecessary”. I think I’ll add that to the Fatuous Expressions file where I filed “comprehensive” and “unprecedented”.
Sometimes my distant relatives get it right.
I always thought Flyoverman sounded German. Was the spelling Americanized at Ellis Island?
With all due respect to General Petraeus I wonder what the Marines fighting on the shores of Tripoli would’ve thought had William Eaton warned Jefferson and the citizens of the new USA not to insult any muslims?
Yeah, everything was going so well in Afghanistan before this started. It was a nice war where people were getting along swimmingly. Now everyone is upset.
If anyone gets killed, it will be Rev. Jones’ fault.
Saw this on hotair…
If your enemy is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him….
Sun Tzu
Phil,
Actually, might Great Great Grandfather skipped Ellis Island and snuck across the Canadian border illegally to do a job the Irish were unwilling to do. To hide his identity he changed his name to Flyoverman from Uberfliegenmann.
So I am an anchor great great grandson. Ain’t Ameica wonderful?
I figure they don’t need any extra incentive to kill us, or our troops. So, therefore, it doesn’t really bother me at all if he wants to burn a whole stack of Korans. Stack ‘em high and set ‘em ablaze for all I care.
Burn.
My Grandma used to say:
Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should.
I guess Alinsky must have been a student of Sun Tzu because his leftist followers are constantly trying to irritate conservatives. That’s why they pull out the race card and resort to vile name calling instead of engaging in civil debate. With the news media on their side, all they have to do is irritate the right into saying something rash and it makes the front page, while their own slip ups are ignored. This has paid off big for them in the past. But this time I think they have overplayed their hand.
On September 8th, 2010 at 5:26 pm, sbw999 said:
I agree, I think it is provocative to burn the Koran. But why is their such a flap over “offending Muslims”? Christians are offended when they burn the bible, ban Christmas but nobody seem to think that’s bad. Most Americans are offended at flag burning but again, that’s OK – first amendment rights you know.
Maybe there is something to the idea that Muslims are dangerous people, else why would everyone be so concerned over this?
Where are Afghan-Americans here telling their countrymen over there the story of how our freedoms work? Do you hear me, Afghan-Americans?? Straighten your countrymen out! We’re paying enough to help them out as it is!!
James Greenidge
Queens NY
My point was that the value of your claim of personal experience was meaningless.
We all know how the great mass of muslims act. They are passive, while they both quietly and noisily applaud the violence done against us by their brethren.
And we know why: It is right there in their koran.
That you know what you think are exceptions is meaningless. There were ‘good’ Nazi’s, too.
On September 8th, 2010 at 10:07 pm, Fineous Reese summarized: ______
Touche!
Hey, granite, you don’t need my help, but I’d be honored to ride shotgun for you.
When I hear the same “First Amendment Freedoms” defense from the trashmongering defenders of GZM,
http://townhall.com/columnists/AnnCoulter/2010/09/08/bonfire_of_the_insanities
(the first 5 paragraphs are a hoot!)
I’ll *reconsider*.
Until then,
I’ve read it,
and I’ll burn it.
When I see a Synagogue go up in Mecca – and Jews allowed to have free and unfettered access – all I can say is “Light Em Up!”
Get over it.
Here’s a screamer:
The Iman is now saying that to move the location of the Ground Zero mosque would be a national security risk! Why? Because to do so would provoke a response from Muslim extremists. Oh my head…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/us_nyc_mosque_imam
Help is always welcome.
I’ve never been in the Service.
I am the one who is honored by your post.
He didn’t waste much time getting to the blackmail/extortion/protection stage, did he?
This is interesting, if not off topic…
during the interview w/the Imam and our current prez, they both used the same term (with regard to the book burning and the proposed mosque):
‘a [jihadist] recruitment bonanza’
Could it be they travel in the same circles, read the same books, watch al-jazeera together?
Yes, and we know how all them lazy, dumb, shuffling, watermellon seed spitting, fried chicken loving darkies act to now don’t we. /sarc
I know what I see in the world around me. It is measureable and real. And yes, it may be limited to my little world of Flyover Country.
What is beyond that I don’t know. Nor do you.
WE ALL KNOW? By what empirical means of measurement do you know?
Do the people in North Korea, Russia, Serbia, France, San Francisco, some current members of the White House staff, and China, etc. etc. etc. etc. who secretly cheered watching the towers fall count too? You do not have to be a Muslim to hate us. It’s the “in thing” to do.
In Flyover Country we learn to see how thick the ice is before we walk across it with a 50 pound sack on our back. I suggest you refrain from making generalizations about 1.2 billion people. Most of them are neutral at the moment. We can keep it that way, keep our principles, defend our way of life, and protect ourselves while defeating the hostiles.
I have no desire through generalization to p@ss off the entire 1.2 billion and have to fight them all.
Both interesting and on-topic.
Another example of where domestic or foreign enemies give their opinion on something they do not like, and possibly fear, under the guise of advice to their opponent/enemy.
I know, in my bones, immediately, for example; when a socialist columnist warns conservatives about the political/election consequences of something that they are doing, that the conservatives are doing exactly the correct thing.
In this example, who would believe that the socialist columnist actually gives a flying fig about conservatives?
So it is with the “imam” and Obama.
As if they want to prevent “a [jihadist] recruitment bonanza”.
I see. So now I am a raaaaacist because I simply observe the slaughter and/or dhimmification that happens anywhere in the world where muslims interact with nonmuslims on a large scale.
I did not realize you were such a clueless jackass, Flyoverman. I am disappointed.
Michelle, your comments on F&F this morning regarding the wonderful religion of peace were right on. I have become VERY tired of watching the muslim rent a mob burn a flag and scream that we are insensitive. Just like the race pimps telling us that we are all racists everytime we say a black crook is a crook. I WILL NOT BE SILENCED BY POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. General Petraeus needs a little more General Patton, and a little less General Hugs. These stone age hillbillies we are fighting in the middle east only know one thing, POWER. To try to reason with them is an exercise in stupidity. Carpet bomb Kandahar and any other town which holds an anti U.S. rally, and we could have our boys home by Christmas. Who cares if some towel headed camel humpers are living in caves? If they come to the U.S.and blow something up, we carpet bomb another islamic city.
and thats the same thing he will say to support the mosque!
No, Roland, you over generalize without any facts to backup your comments.
You claim that we all know how 1.2 billion people feel. Your baseline data is no better than anyone else out here. Thus, not supportable.
I spent the early part of my career learning how to fight and win an insurgency. I can tell you that your approach is not what I learned to do from the very best we have.
Here is how it is….the ground zero mosque was not “innocently” proposed as a offering of Peace….it is a deliberate provocation. It is working….this insignificant little preacher is going to burn a few books and it is a world wide call to kill all non believers? I think they were expecting more reaction, but they are already running with what they have …..Tension is way up…all they need now is a large attack
Exactly. It is all about submission to whatever the ‘moderate’ muslims want.
Our elites are selling us out to do business with the holders of trillions of petrodollars. It’s not a conspiracy. It’s right out in the open.
Patton fought a conventional war. Petraeus is fighting an insurgency.
The Russians tried your approach. It didn’t work. Besides carpet bombing while fun to watch is inefficient as h@11. Its a waste of resources. See the Battle of the Than Hua bridge for details.
Are we here to feel good or win the fight? I wonder.
That one is spot on. Hat tip.
Let’s make sure they don’t get their way.
You have your head stuck firmly in the sand. The facts are right out there all across the world from Malaysia to Morocco.
If you refuse to look at what muslim societies actually do all across the world, and you insist on engaging in the impossible task of looking at each muslim, one by one, to decide how our society should deal with Islam as a whole, then any conversation with you is beyond pointless.
You have already submitted.
Thats Bloombergs reason…his company is trying to expand in the ME.
Is a moderate muslum like a moderate serial killer? what exactly is it?
Does anyone have a link to MM on F&F?
Okay. But now I’m really puzzled.
not a word from american media about the stoning being planned in iran for a woman who had sex outside of marriage. i heard about it on the bbc.dinosaur media considers a citizen’s book burning more outrageous then a goverment sponsored public torture execution.
Correct.
It matters absolutely nothing how a few muslims behave toward nonmuslims in a society where muslims are a small minority.
What matters is how muslims treat nonmuslims when muslims are at near parity, or in the majority.
Can anyone point to one example in the past 1400 years where muslims, when they have been at near parity or in the majority, have treated nonmuslims in a manner to give the impression that muslims are just nice, regular folks?
One example?
In 1400 years?
Anybody?
Bueller?
Modifying Chruchill’s description of the Hun, to describe how muslims behave toward nonmuslims:
Muslims are either at your feet or at your throat.
So is my wife…….
Code of Conduct does not allow for that as I still have the means to resist.
Now thats a good idea Roland!!! Maybe even take up a collection for his expense’s.
Burn after reading?
I have this vision of brown robed monks sitting in a candle lit monastery leaning over books with highlighters in their hand.
Michelle, you’re 99% wrong on this.
The 1% (as I see it) *is*, though, very important:
Dems/O’loser should not be given this “diversionary/wedge” issue to peel off “independent” (most of whom are AKA mushy headed, weak minded) voters. This is admittedly a golden issue presented at a golden time, vis a vis the November elections.
In that respect – and in that respect only – I concur with you that it would be best for the Florida congregation not to do.
Otherwise: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
I am sick and tired hearing about “moderate Muslims.” There is no such thing, in a religious sense. The moderate part has more to do with the (un)civil government run by those who practice Islamic tenets.
I have never heard of “moderate” Christians, Jews, Hindus, Pagans, etc. Prove to me that those who practice those faiths do so “in moderation” then I will concede the point.
A Muslim must be all in, or be impostate…a condition that makes them a “legitimate” target for extermination, with Allah’s blessing, by any “true believer.” Or, so it is written.
A true Muslim cannot simply have faith in God; they are compelled to follow the preachings of the Imams who have sole ownership of Quronic interpretation, and are not subject to review, discussion, or objection…or they may (or, more likely, will) issue a fatwah rationalizing the murder of those who would question their “holy” utterings.
I think that’s why liberals are so enamored with Muslim theocracy…they have total control over thoughts and actions of those over whom they rule .