The forgotten 14th victim of the Fort Hood massacre; Plus: Why was Hasan video deleted?
Some of us still remember.
Last November, I noted that the unborn child of Fort Hood soldier Francheska Velez was the 14th murder victim of jihadist Nidal Hasan.
At Hasan’s Article 32 trial yesterday, a witness testified about Velez’s searing last words before succumbing to gunshot wounds during the attack:
A pregnant soldier shot during a rampage at a Texas Army post last year cried out, “My baby! My baby!” as others crawled under desks, dodged bullets that pierced walls and rushed to help their bleeding comrades, a military court heard Monday.
A soldier had just told Spc. Jonathan Sims that she was expecting a baby and was preparing to go home, when the first volley of gunfire rang out Nov. 5 in a Fort Hood building where soldiers get medical tests before and after deploying.
“The female soldier that was sitting next to me was in the fetal position. She was screaming: ‘My baby! My baby!’” Sims said.
Pvt. Francheska Velez, a 21-year-old from Chicago, had become pregnant while serving in Iraq. She was among the 13 killed in the worst mass shooting on an American military base.
Sims was one of 10 soldiers to testify Monday at an Article 32 hearing that will determine whether Army psychiatrist Maj. Nidal Hasan will stand trial on 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.
Should have been 14. Not 13.
Flashback: “She would have been a great mom.”
Facebook memorial page for Pvt. Velez.
Previous Fort Hood massacre coverage.
***
I still don’t understand why this isn’t a bigger deal. Why the hell was a soldier ordered to delete crucial evidence of Hasan in the middle of the bloody rampage?
A soldier, testifying at a hearing for accused Fort Hood, Texas, killer Maj. Nidal Hasan, said he was ordered to delete his two videos of the shootings.
Army Pfc. Lance Aviles, present at the mass slayings, said he was directed to delete his videos of the scene by superior officers, the Austin (Texas) American-Statesman reported Monday.
Aviles was awaiting medical processing before deploying to Afghanistan.
He did not say who those officers were or why they wanted him to erase the images captured at the 467th Medical Detachment, the newspaper said.
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Lesson Learned: When confronted with a Nidal Hasan, the target needs to be engaged until the target stops breathing. Then wait five minutes to ensure that the target does not return any fire.
Why this piece of dirt is still alive is the biggest travesty in this whole horrific incident.
The second travesty will be in the number of years it will take this loser to bleed the tax payers as he moves through our justice system with his appeals.
If a woman gets pregnant and chooses to keep the baby, in her mind that means it is a human life. She has chosen to bring the baby into the world and nurture and care for it. There is no argument the liberal fascists can use to counter that.
Yes. It should be 14.
Bingo!! Spot on TigerLady.
Absolutelly agree 100%. These scumbags should never make trial. Period. And that baby MUST be included as a victim. He/she was a human being and we should weep for what might have been.
I agree on both points, Michelle.
Both points are really, really big deals.
Just taking guesses here but it is quite possible that the “officers” (I’ve heard reports that it was an NCO) ordered the video deleted to make sure it was never used as a jihadi recruiting video and I believe at the time they also believed Hasan was dead and there would be no trial. I’ll give the officer/NCO the benefit of the doubt at this time but the question HAS to be answered. Why is it not a bigger deal? You got me there…
Now what would Joe Biden say?….
Had a relative there that day…it was horrible. Can’t say much more, except that YES, there were 14 victims.
When I first read about Aviles being ordered to delete his video’s I could not get my head around why? I would think the officer who ordered this could be held for destroying vital evidence. Yes, this murderer should be charged with fourteen murders.
L
The current administration proves unable to lead or manage in every situation. This travesty is simply another example of total incompetence. None of the military people were armed and could not defend themselves because of a “Directive”. The pre-trial handling of Hassan is horrendous, the trial will be a disaster. OBambi and Crew are America’s enemy.
Take a moment to think about and answer the following question:
Without exception, the “shooter” doesn’t stop shooting until…
On October 19th, 2010 at 10:11 am, Old Tanker said:
Just taking guesses here but it is quite possible that the “officers” (I’ve heard reports that it was an NCO) ordered the video deleted to make sure it was never used as a jihadi recruiting video and I believe at the time they also believed Hasan was dead and there would be no trial. I’ll give the officer/NCO the benefit of the doubt at this time but the question HAS to be answered. Why is it not a bigger deal? You got me there…
You might know more than me Tank, but it sure seems like you are bending over backward to find some excuse and give someone the benefit of doubt for what is most likely just covering up for their own, or not wanting folks to hear a shrieking Nadal scream Allah kbar as he gets his shots off…
it’s sickening that this order to delete was given. And no, it wasn’t about making sure it wourldn’t become a Jihadi recruting tool… that’s actually quite preposterous, (sorry Tank)…
Why would an administration led by someone who has no problem leaving a child to die in a closet be concerned with the unborn child of a soldier?
I consider all 14 victims of the FORT HOOD MASSACRE to be forgotten… Especially by the COMMAND OFFICERS of the US MILITARY!!! Let’s hear it for DIVERSITY!!!
We don’t want to upset the ROP and its infiltration of our military and government, now do we?
That deleted file could have been recovered if the camera were seized before those memory locations were overwritten.
Preposterous? I don’t really think so, I only thought of it because I was once a young NCO… A dumb move, sure, hindsight is a great thing. I was just throwing a guess out there. There are still way too many questions to be answered, for instance, the FBI and CID would have interviewed this PFC right after the incident, did he tell them then? If so, why didn’t they take the phone and recover the video (they could have done so even if deleted) Did the PFC really get an order to do so? I’ve heard it reported that it was an officer, and an NCO but Aviles doesn’t know who it was so we have to simply believe him. Am I bending over backwards to make an excuse? I hardly think so, I never excused anyone for giving that order…Michelle posited a question, “why would someone give an order like that” I just made a guess as to what motivation the officer/NCO might have had at the time, I would certainly never excuse it. The officer/NCO should have confiscated the phone themselves and turned it over to CID, but I do have the benefit of hindsight…
By benefit of the doubt I mean that there was no mischevious intent, that the officer/NCO thought they were doing the right thing…that doesn’t mean I’m excusing it….
Without exception, the “shooter” doesn’t stop shooting until…
1 – He runs out of bullets.
2 – Everybody else is dead and there is nobody left to kill.
3 – Somebody kills the shooter.
I like choice #3 best.
Was the soldier shooting video at the time of the shooting or did he shoot the aftermath? In other words, if all he had on his video were pictures of the dead and wounded I probably would have also told him to delete it. Do you think he was shooting this video to be used as evidence? Do you really want to see the video on the internet or the pages of a tabloid video of the dead and wounded? The same video could be taken by the authorities and handled in a secure manner.
And yes, there were 14 dead victims that day.
Given where they were and their activity there was no reason for them to be armed and issued ammunition. I was in the system for 25 years and never saw soldiers armed with ammunition in those locations.
If soldiers are going to walk around on stateside posts and everyone is walking around with ball ammunition and weapons, we will create more risk then the threat we are trying to protect ourselves from.
Intell missed that Hasan was Muslim, was in contact with a radical in Yemen, he was about to be non-retained, he had a past history of trouble in the Army, had all kinds of strange writings, and he had purchased firearms.
Why in the h@11 do we have gun registration when it does nothing for you until AFTER the crime is committed? Brilliant!
This is a sad truth. Obowmao doesn’t see a problem with his view on “mistakes”.
I’m getting weary of Duh Won.
I don’t understand the law very well. Would some lawyer on this forum please explain why there is a hearing to determine if there should be a trial??? what reason could there be for not having a trial? Is there really any doubt that he is guilty? Can he go directly from a hearing to jail or execution without a trial? Why are they doing this?
I like to think of myself as a warm-blooded animal, but there are certain things that make me struggle to suppress the urge to go into “Terminator” mode against Mohammedans in general.
Watching video of people jumping from the World Trade Center is one of them.
What I just read above is another.
TooMuch, basic and brilliant. In regards to murder of a pregnant woman w/child, I would think there could be laws written around that concept.
On October 19th, 2010 at 11:38 am, ThunderHawkk said:
Close, but no cigar.
1 – “Shooters” are usually loaded to the gills with both ammo and guns.
2 – “Shooters” keep moving, constantly finding new targets.
3 – Again close, but no cigar. The shooter doesn’t always get killed, as clearly shown in this case with Hasan. But you’ve got the main idea…
The “shooter” doesn’t stop shooting until…
someone else with a gun stops them.
I’ve yet to see a “shooter” who stopped because they ran out of ammo.
I’ve yet to see a “shooter” who stopped because they ran out of targets.
The “shooter” doesn’t stop shooting until someone else with a gun stops them.
That is why it is so dangerous to create “gun free” zones. Whether it be schools, workplaces, airport lobbies, etc., a “gun free” zone is a “soft target”, “target-rich” environment for a shooter.
Hasan’s targets were all unarmed, because they were not allowed to be armed. And had they been armed, Hasan would have been stopped much sooner.
As it was, 14 people died before armed police could arrive and use their guns to stop Hasan.
Islam is incompatible with Western Civilization.
BACON AKBAR!
I concur, well before choices #1 and #2 have occurred.
Those who witnessed Hasan’s warning signs and dropped the ball – wonder how they are getting along these days. Hope they are angry and spilling it all to the prosecutors.
Even in the cases where the “shooter” ends by shooting themselves and committing suicide, they usually don’t do that until they know that other people with guns are approaching their position.
It would be a big deal if a non-Muslim had done the shooting. It is now politically incorrect in the military to record a Muslim committing murder on his fellow soldiers. Just another baby step in our Country’s long painful suicide.
cify
A story such as this brings it home there is very little humanity left in the followers of the RoP. Before the trial is over Hasan will become the victim and the military will be at fault..I mean, after all, he is a minority in the service, he did end up in a wheelchair, and only military personnel died in his rampage. Before the memorial services were finished that knuckle dragging general(?) was talking about diversity and it’s merits.
On October 19th, 2010 at 12:14 pm, Virginia Patriot said:
Both Islam and Christianity teach their followers to go into all the world and spread the faith.
The Bible teaches to do so through Love.
The Koran teaches to do so through Force.
——————————————————————————————————————————
People are free to practice whatever religion (or no religion) that they wish.
But those who seek to impose Sharia Law in the U.S. are enemies of our Constitution.
And those who support those enemies of our Constitution are guilty of treason.
From Article III, Section 3:
Unlike many here, I don’t think society should consider a fetus to have full human rights at conception, but I’d take your position one step further:
If the father regards the fetus as his child (unless he raped the mother, of course, in which case his opinion/feelings on the matter means less that s***), then it should have full rights, even if the mother does not want to regard it as her child.
If that creates big problems for women who want to casually screw around, too bad. If women really want equality, that is how it works.
If I get a woman pregnant, I’m responsible for that child without regard to whether or not I wanted her to abort it. She can even lie to me about using birth control, and I’m still completely on the hook.
Real equality means real responsibility.
Eveyone needs to read the Koran.
Same reason that Jefferson had one.
Know the enemy.
They were the enemy then, they still are because the Koran tells them it must be so.
RedPill,
I understand and agree with the spirit of the point you are making, but….
What about the “shooter” that killed George Tiller….Roeder had a single target, and stopped shooting when there was “nobody left to kill”.
What about the cases where the shooter commits suicide (Klebold & Harris)?
Out-fracking-rageous!
A good question…who, and why? Officers that order the destruction of evidence are not the kind I want in our military. Political correctness is why the Islamo-fascist Hassan was PERMITTED to stay in the military (and, promoted).
Court’s Marshall are in order for the officers. We should demand an explanation. It’s bad enough we have this type of socialism, and social engineering embedded in our government, we don’t need it in our military, as well.
+1
I’m not a lawyer, but I will answer as best I can (And defer to the lawyers on this board if I am in the wrong).
This is an Article 32 hearing which is used when the charges against the accused are so serious, a General Court Martial may have to be convened on it.
Mental incompentence or insufficient evidence.
Of course there is. Even under the UCMJ, there is a presumption of innocence until proven guilty. No matter how heinous the crime someone is accused of, they still have this on their side.
No and it should never be that way. If he is found guilty, he can go to jail and the military can carry out a death sentence if that is what comes out.
Because that is the way we do things in this country. While it may suck, you want the same protections on your side if you are ever accused.
Maybe because we are all growing numb to how bad things really are while it just keeps getting worse and worse. Our trust in our government and establishment elites has sunk so low that nothing shocks us anymore. Let’s just hope that there aren’t gas chambers in our future.
On October 19th, 2010 at 12:50 pm, IndyRich said:
That was a premeditated murder of a single individual, and not a “shooter” incident. A “shooter” may or may not have one or more premeditated targets, but their motivation is different… they seek to kill as many people as possible before they are stopped.
Repeating what I said in comment #31 above:
***
President FDR only needed a few months to have a military tribunal try the WW2 Nazi saboteurs who landed on our soil. And they didn’t kill anybody. All but 2 of them got the electric chair within a month of conviction.
***
Justice delayed is justice denied. It’s time for the good Jihadi Major to get his day in court–followed by a Saddam Hussein type long drop with a short rope–if he is found guilty.
***
As far as the unborn baby (aka “punishment” or “cell clumps” by pro abortionists)–the dead baby seems to be considered as just a little more “collateral damage”. But one hanging for the Major will cover all the bases.
***
John Bibb
***
On October 19th, 2010 at 11:32 am, Old Tanker said:
On October 19th, 2010 at 11:09 am, max said:
By benefit of the doubt I mean that there was no mischevious intent, that the officer/NCO thought they were doing the right thing…that doesn’t mean I’m excusing it….
gotcha Tankl… I agree they probably – probably — didn’t intend a PC cover-up of a Mooslim…
it seems more likely that they didn’t want family and friends of the victims to see the carnage… i guesss..
but we really need answers… for instance.. were these officers or NCO (s) mooslims themselves?
Whoa, easy there…as sergeantmajorbill said above, if it was only footage of the aftermath (bodies of the victims)then it wouldn’t be evidence and I could see why the order was given. If it was in fact Hasan in the act of carrying out the crime you would be correct, someone’s career should be over…
We are thinking the same thing, especially the part about needing ALOT more answers. I’m sure we will be getting them in the very near future…
I disagree with you both. The odds are extremely high the ‘inflammatory’ video was erased in the name of political correctness. Didn’t want to get all of those lowbrow bitter clingers all riled up by actually seeing the slaughter by another monster in the name of Islam.
I spent a year deployment with Lt.Col Warman who was murdered by this jihad.An outstanding lady Soldier who was returning on another mission.My feelings about this are set in stone.
Huge question.
Still could be if it hasn’t been overwritten.
RIP Lt. Col Warman and all 14 victims.
Roland – stop and think for a minute. What political correctness are you talking about? If it were your son or daughter laying on the floor dead would you want a video of it on the internet? It all goes back to why did this private take the video. My 25 years of experience with privates tells me that it had nothing to do with evidence. It was strickly taken because he could take it. And again, going back to my 25 years of experience with privates, maybe 1 in 10 would have turned it in for evidence – the other nine would have taken the first offer they got from a tabloid or tv station. There is also a regulation that says you do not release pictures of wounded or dead soldiers until the next of kin are notified.
Yes, the NCO should have taken the cell phone and given it to the CID but, and this is a big but, he had no authority to take the cell phone.
And I go back to what I said originally, the aftermath is on video taken by the proper authorities.
I think we are making too much out of nothing here.
I think most likely you are right, one caveat…
He could have ordered the PFC to show it to CID and walked him to an investigator. I realize it’s Monday morning quaterbacking….
I would submit he had no authority to order the video deleted. That person should be looking for a job.
Why did he give the order? Maybe that NCO was there, and the video might have shown him hiding behind someone, crying like a baby.
News at 11 – and yes, the MSM would have put up the film, and most probably, have paid for it. Would they have cared a twit about whether relatives had been notified, no. I’m thinking they need to ask this young man a tad more than who asked him to erase the pics but what he intended to do with it. With YouTube and Facebook the options are endless.
Since we’re doing nothing but assuming things here we can
a) assume the officer/NCO had good motivation and possibly made a bad call. or…
b) assume the officer/NCO was pissing himself in the corner and didn’t want to be seen on video…
I bet you support the troops too…
The bottomline is, you
Do not destroy, alter, or hide evidence.
Whether or not video was taken after the shooting stopped is immaterial. It may have provided information, or answered questions, or confirmed/ contradicted witness statements.
It’s value as evidence will be determined in a court, or by the prosecutor’s office, not by a PC senior officer.
In some respects I agree with both of you, but in others I disagree.
Without a trial, I doubt highly we would have ever known of:
A trial tends to bring out details that otherwise we would never hear of.
How many states have sentence enhancers if a murder results in the death of an unborn baby?
I know there are more than a few.
Not to mention his Commanders passing him off to be someone else’s problem.
I know one of them. I am not surprised the lazy POS took no action.
That’s one of the damn fools who could have benefitted greatly from viewing the deleted video.
As it is, he’s likely still in uniform, pushing diversity classes on grunts expected to go kill the same people they are learning how to be diverse with.
So does the left call this 13 murders and one illegal abortion?
Lack of ammunition or lack of respiration.
The first is bad because he’s hit everyone he wanted; the second is good as long as it happens well before the first.