Branding the Tucson massacre: “Together We Thrive” in white and blue; Updated: Liveblogging the bizarre pep rally; Gov. Brewer booed; in sum: right speech, too late, boneheaded venue (WOOT!)
President Obama used to preach that there was no “Red America” and no “Blue America,” just one America.
But tonight at the memorial for the Tucson massacre victims, it will be a sea of blue as the White House unveils the “Together We Thrive” logo and slogan.
Yes, the Tucson massacre is being branded:
All the University of Arizona buses in Tucson have been flashing the slogan on their digital signs.
Attendees at the memorial tonight report that they are being handed out the blue and white t-shirts as they enter the venue.
A reader in attendance tells me via Twitter that volunteers will be wearing red-and-white shirts. He’s going to try and upload a photo.
Here is a photo of the blue and white t-shirts being laid out at the stadium for tonight.
And here is a screenshot from the Arizona Republic of more volunteers setting out tonight’s costume props:
Will there be giant foam fingers and blue cotton candy, too?
Isn’t the churning of the instant messaging machine a bit, well, unseemly?
Can’t the Democrat political stage managers give it a break just once?
Update: As noted above, the University of Arizona announced the Together We Thrive event — and a few readers write in to say that the campus initiated the logo/campaign. Given U of A president Robert Shelton’s embarrassing, thinly-veiled partisan cheerleading for Obama tonight, it may indeed be a 100 percent-campus-initiated campaign. Given the Obama White House’s meticulous attention to stage prop details, however, I would say the odds of involvement by Axelrod/Plouffe & Co. are high.
***
Question: In the spirit of unity and thriving, will all the prog cities and counties that declared economic war on Arizona over SB1070 repeal their boycotts now?
Reminder of the local governments that declared boycotts against Arizona:
• Amherst (Mass.)
• Austin City Council • Berkeley, Calif. • Bloomington, Ind.
• Boston. • Burlington, Vt.
• Columbus, Ohio.
• Cook County, Ill.
• El Paso (city and county).
• Gallup, N.M.
• Hartford, Conn.
• Los Angeles (city and county).
• Oakland.
• Richmond, Calif.
• Sacramento
• San Pablo, Calif.
• St. Paul, Minn.
• Santa Monica, Calif.
• San Francisco (non-binding resolution).
• Seattle.
• West Hollywood, Calif. • The Oxnard City (Calif.) City Council on July 20 decided not to take a stand against Arizona’s new immigration law, despite pleas from dozens of residents urging council members to at least condemn the law. The mayor and two council members said they will instead consider a symbolic resolution.
***
The memorial is livestreaming here. Program starts at 8pm Eastern.
A few screenshots…John McCain and Eric Holder kibbitzing…
Nancy Pelosi looks…happy…
Volunteer getting his photo taken with Pelosi:
Update 8:03pm Eastern Obama enters stadium to wild applause. Opening music: Copeland’s Fanfare for the Common Man.
Native American gives rambling speech while holding a feather. His remarks are frequently interrupted by whoops and cheers. He gives a shout-out to his son serving in Afghanistan. Brags about his ethnic Mexican background. Babbles about two-legged and four-legged creatures and the feminine energy that comes from Mother Earth.
Mercy.
More whoops and hollers for the National Anthem singer.
More whoops and hollers for the University of Arizona president.
8:28pm Eastern: Intern Daniel Hernandez, who was by Rep. Giffords’ side on Saturday and acted courageously to stanch the bleeding from her head wound, gives an excellent speech paying tribute to the heroes.
Gov. Brewer takes the stage to polite applause and pays tribute to the victims. The shooting “pierced our sense of well-being.” Arizona’s hope “will not be shredded by one madman’s act of darkness.”
Brewer brings reverence and sobriety to the event, God bless her: We will go forward “in prayer, unbending and unbowed.”
And immediately, the sobriety is broken by massive whoops and hollers for Janet Napolitano.
Just. Gross.
After reading Isaiah 40, more whoops and hollers for Napolitano.
And now, Arizona-bashing Attorney General Eric Holder, reading 2nd letter of Paul to the Corinthians.
8:42pm Eastern U of A president intro’ing Obama. Cheers, whoops, shout-outs. Ear-splitting applause as he heads to podium.
Audience screaming “WE LOVE YOU!”
People still cheering as he starts his remarks.
Obama’s tribute to victims calms the crowd down somewhat.
8:56pm Eastern President announces that Rep. Giffords opened her eyes for the first time since the shooting. Very moving.
And now…for What It All Means…Obama addresses “discourse”…
But at a time when our discourse has become so sharply polarized – at a time when we are far too eager to lay the blame for all that ails the world at the feet of those who think differently than we do – it’s important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds.
Scripture tells us that there is evil in the world, and that terrible things happen for reasons that defy human understanding. In the words of Job, “when I looked for light, then came darkness.” Bad things happen, and we must guard against simple explanations in the aftermath.
For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man’s mind.
So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.
But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together.
***
9:16pm Eastern Obama using Christina Green’s memory to rouse America “to live up to” our children’s dreams and expectations.
“If there are rain puddles in heaven, Christina is jumping in them today.”
Massive applause, whoops as he finishes.
Choir sings “Simple Gifts” — a rare moment of solace in the program.
***
Bottom line:
Speeches and leadership are not the same thing.
Obama delivered one tonight, but failed at the other over the past three days as Pima County Sheriff Dupnik, Democrat Party leaders, and media abettors poisoned the public square with the very vitriol the president now condemns.
Right speech. Too late. Awful, awful venue.
***
Terrific: Via Instapundit, Politico reports that Obama’s remarks about federal judge John Roll undermine federal charges against Loughner for his murder.
***
Last update: I didn’t trust my ears, but the NYTimes confirms that there were some boos when Gov. Brewer spoke.
Even as it began, some conservative commentators were posting comments criticizing the memorial service for being overly partisan and more like a pep rally, and there were some boos in the hall when Gov. Jan Brewer, a Republican, spoke. Those reactions would have been hard to imagine, say, in the days after the Oklahoma City bombing.
Video here.
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What part of what I wrote do you deny, and just out of curiosity, if you did acknowledge them, would it phase you in the least?
Dear Conservatives:
We would like to inform you that the truth has been revealed, and on the basis of extensive conjecture and speculation, we find beyond any doubt that all of you are to blame for this terrible tragedy in Arizona. There is no need for you to express feelings of remorse, there is no need for you to participate in the memorial rall…er….service, which shall be completely owned by the left. Since you caused these murders, we believe that those expressions and participation would be inappropriate. This tragedy is ours to mourn, and ours to blame you for. All of the people killed and injured belong to us. The media belongs to us. This Country belongs to us. We trust that you will accept this proclamation without question, and you are expected to be silent, which is how we like you. Any behavior to the contrary will be met with a barrage of further baseless recriminations.
Signed,
The Always Correct, Enlightened and Brilliant Left
Good post.
My sentence was just a figure of speech.
I’ve known for decades that the socialists hold a diametrically opposed, irreconcilably different worldview, and that they are America’s domestic enemy.
Those Bible verses seemed more like a political plan than a message of solace.
RSS,
I’m questioning why you think they’re significant.
So what if the Army staged the statue toppling? Did they design a logo and hand out t-shirts?
The Iwo Jima flag raising was staged for the photograph. Does that make it any less of an iconic picture?
Did either of those events resemble a pep rally for their respective presidents?
This is about decorum and showing respect at a time of loss, not propaganda.
I am very disappointed a Spanish language version of the t-shirt was not offerred.
/sarc
Red State Skeptic said:
I see you have crawled out of the ooze once again there Anti-Semite.
I heard MM was on Fox&Friends. I missed it. I turned them off after hearing them fawn over Obama for his speech. I thought I was watching CNN.
Oh well. Is this the place to get critical analysis of Obama and administration? I just gave up on HotAir because it appears that its two hosts were passing out T-shirts at the Obama rally.
The fact that Obeyme entered the arena to “wild applause” is all I need to know. This was a U of AZ event.
I tried to watch this idiotic spectacle last night. After Jan Brewer I had to stop watching. It was an unseemly clusterfark. What the hell were those people thinking.
I did not view it.
But, from what I’ve read about it, it went as I would have expected.
Our poor country is now seeing the results of the culturally suicidal political, social, and “educational” policies of the past 40-50 years.
MM, great work on Fox and Friends this morning, it is always refreshing to hear a clear version of what is going on in the political world inside America, ty.
My opinion OF the rally, DISGUSTING AND DISRESPECTFUL TO THE VICTIMS.
Fair enough. Both instances are propaganda, but as I said earlier, I thought the branding of the event last night was despicable. I’m glad Obama kept the remarks itself unostentatious, and I hope he keeps that “Together We Thrive” tagline a one-time thing and not a campaign jump off for 2012.
Errah, i wonder who paid for the branding and T-shirts?
Errah If J-Nap and Holder had read those bible verses in a church there would have been a conflagration. They did deliver them well for having only read them once in their lives.
They passed out tee-shirts at a memorial service?That is really disgusting.Come to think of it,the whole nature of the event is disgusting.
Errah, Maybe we can we get Holder or J-Nap to read select bible verses outside of abortion clinics next?
Wellstone Memorial Redux????? YES/NO?
Errah, J-Nap and Holder’s only other brush with religion came from watching the Indiana Jones movies.
Whooping, and hollering??? Rambling speech by an INDIAN (who also is a prof at UofA)??? T-shirts??? Was this a MEMORIAL or a pep rally for a basketball game??? Ad to that the BOOING that was heaped on GOVERNOR JAN BREWER, and it was an embarrassment to TUSCON and to all of my beloved state, ARIZONA…
I am still wondering how Chris Matthews was able to kidnap the president of the University of Arizona and take his place. Did not know that shape-shifting was one of Matthews’ talents.
Here’s a suggestion, Michelle. Please lend coverage to the Brian Terry, Border Patrol Agent memorial coming up on January 21, in Tucson, for comparison. He was shot and killed trying to root out bandits who steal from illegals and other narcotics traffickers last month. I guarantee you it will be far more dignified than last night’s rally.
I flipped on the TV and saw Obama speaking. Apparently early in his 34 minute speech. It was more a rally than a memorial. It was very disturbing to watch.
Had it been a family member of mine that was involved, I believe I would have left the arena. Though I can’t imagine I would even be involved in such a circus in the first place.
Errah, you did. Or at least your, errah estate did.
Furthermore, I have no faith regarding the intentions of Obama and his administration.
They only speak of “calming the rhetoric” when they want to silence someone else.
They only speak of compromise when it is an agenda other than theirs that is being considered.
They only speak of unity when they believe that will slow the progress of anyone they oppose.
Once again, we will see Obama and his team make the most of a crisis. They will not let it go to waste.
Sickening.
Another horrible thing that is happening after these murders and wounding of people. This just makes me sick to see this is going on. As for me and my home ‘I will not submit’ to anyone!
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/scared-to-serve-giffords-shooting-prompts-gop-resignations-in-az/
L
Yup.
Our domestic enemies flip a coin according to the rule, “Heads I win, tails you lose.”
and Holder and Incompetano quoting the Bible????
They got some big ones (Janet for sure) to get in front of that crowd and read from the bible. Everything that they are is an affront to God.
Those two reading from the Bible is like Ted Bundy giving a speech on preventing violence against women.
Tucson is a mini San Fransicko, and completely void of tact.
Except that the Brits still stand by this fact and have the proof and this is no longer called faulty information..but it doesn’t fit the BDN narrative so it won’t get reported.
Uhh..except that it take place..just because the lefties say something did or did not happen does not make what they say the truth. This disgusting display of overt lying by the neo-Dems and the histerical leftie pundunts the last few days has proven there is nothing they will not make up and lie about to just push the…narrative.
Yes, that is true, but you and your leftie liars would never report that …yes, these things can be used for conventional weapons…But they never are used in that fashion….again doesn’t fit the derangement narrative.
Oh yes, you forgot to explain away the missiles found in Baghdad that would go far beyond the 90K limit to at least 600K to a 1000K.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?filter=lf#!/photo.php?fbid=1040827625290&set=a.1040827025275.2007329.1363552812
But hey when Bush Derangement is the order of the day…RSS is right on top …..liar.
Errah J-Nap and Holder reading scripture . . . is like Jeffery Dahlmer giving you his best vegan recipe! . . .
I think we can have some fun with this! And no I didn’t pay for those shirts. Did Pelosi fly coach yesterday?
Please by nice to RSS. Remember the Left views any enemy of their enemy as their friend. He’s just frustrated we won and that our casaulty rates were relatively low.
After all, like the peole shot dead at Fort Hood and the people in Tuscon who were killed, they are all acceptable deaths, because the occasion can assist the implementation of the Progressive/Socalist/Communist vision.
Why didn’t Obama just lead the bundists in a chorus of the Horst Wessel Lied? It would have been more appropriate since the democrats were obviously there, not for a memorial, but for a political rally.
Hmmm…I wonder if the t’shirts were American/Union made or, were the Obama Central Casting blue t’shirts ‘outsourced’ to some 3rd world nation?
___‹^›__‹(•¿•)›__‹^›___
Thank you, norm1111.
I was researching my response to Red State Socialist’s faulty liberal “logic,” but you’ve answered for me.
President Poison turns my stomach, with every lie he utters and every garbage performance his stage-manager Marxists put on.
t-shirts and a logo for a funeral memorial? these gutter filth stop at nothing to cheapen and sully our nation. what pigs.
I’ll let Tammy Bruce speak for me, her reaction to this disgusting spectacle was right on and said my piece better than I can:
Upon hearing the awful news Saturday morning, within an hour–even before we knew the number of dead–Barack Obama’s gestapos moved in for the kill–the Kill of Palin and the Kill of Conservatives in this country. For 5 days Tea Party, conservative and Sarah Palin were blamed for murder. I spent the weekend, as did so many others, not being allowed to grieve but having to listen to crass political smears and libel, while defending those falsely accused of horrific complicity.
Democrat and Republican leadership sat silent, including Barack Obama, as this nation was stomped on by grotesque beasts using the dead and maimed in an attempt to add a 20th victim–Sarah Palin–to the body count. Obama may have been silent and he could be–his gestapos were doing all the work. His machine knew what to do and they moved quickly. Their Massacre Cult chose their targets and went hunting, accusing innocents of the horror of being an accessory to murder to score political points.
So don’t wonder why I’m calling the charade tonight a charade. Despite all of us being faced with the ugliness of the liberal response, we also spent the last 5 days praying for the victims and being concerned for our nation. You will also see my concern in refusing to silently acquiesce or in faux praise for one of the most bizarre displays of manipulation of a tragedy I’ve ever seen. Was the speech good? I suppose considering what we’ve been put through this weekend by the very same people, reading the phone book would have moved some people to tears. If you lurved the speech, then let’s make the speechwriter president!
No, this intelligence was based on documents that were already proven by the C.I.A. to be forged documents. And no, it’s still faulty information since there is not evidence that Saddam had “recently” sought uranium from Africa. As I wrote earlier in this thread, the fact that Saddam had remnants of a program to develop weapons of mass destruction was not the basis for going to war. It was his purported continued efforts to develop WMD’s, which was of course bunk.
Are you seriously saying that Dick Cheney’s assertion that Mohammad Atta met with Ahmad Samir al-Ani in Prague happened? No. As I wrote before, this was debunked by the C.I.A. before Cheney said it, and even Cheney himself now acknowledges that it never happened (but not that he already knew that it never happened).
I would like to see some evidence that the tubes are “never” used for conventional weapons. Even if they are, Rice said — knowing it was false — that they couldn’t be used for conventional purposes.
So you have pictures of big missiles that somehow show that the White House didn’t lie? Please.
Even if it turned out that Saddam had an ongoing, aggressive and successful WMD program (which he did not), it would still not excuse the fact that the Bush administration was working on pure guesswork, while feeding the American public “intelligence” that they already knew was WRONG.
Really? Would you like to tell that to the Iranians and the Kurds that were murdered by Saddam’s chemical/biological weapons? Remember, chemical and biological weapons are also considered WMDs.
I know we’re discussing Saddam obtaining uranium. Joe Wilson’s little mint tea sipping escapade has been shown to be a politically motivated event.
Hmmmm!
I guess that’s in keeping with the current thread topic! Who’da thunk it?
Turned on the TV to watch O’Reilly (MST) and partially heard a Native American muttering something about snakes. That did it for me. Downloaded Robert Crais’ new book instead.
No, you misunderstood him, he was blessing his Democrat hosts.
So the radio in your vehicle doesn’t have an On/Off button? My TV does. I just shut it off and picked up a good book.
If ObaMao had just led a line or two of “The Internationale“, I think some of the older folks in the crowd might actually have cheerfully joined in, many if them probably knowing the words of that particular song.
Another Wellstone moment brought to you by the left of Az State Univ. Do these leftists have no sense of decorum? The President’s speech was very good, but the reactions of the audience, and the overall tone of the event was way too event based, at a way too tragic event gathering.
No. It is too much to expect of them.
When I heard that hope-a-dope was going to cynically take the opportunity to give yet another “greatest speech since the Gettysburg Address” (as his thrill-up-the-leg media sycophants would no doubt portray it), I knew that this event was going to turn into another Paul Wellstone Memorial.
It was inevitable: these are people who have demonstrated that they know nothing about governing except how to campaign. It was apparent when Gov. Brewer was showered with boos, and when they burst out at inappropriate moments with cheering while the Messiah was speaking to them, that even at a Memorial event they don’t know when and they don’t know how to turn it off.
Michelle was right on Fox and Friends this morning: The people who turned this event into a foot-stompin’ quasi-religious revival – I was waiting for someone in the audience to jump up on his chair and shout, “I believe!” – are the same ones who were swooning over him at college campus events during his The-Candyman-Riding-a-Unicorn election campaign in 2008. They obviously haven’t learned anything since then, and that was no doubt why this venue was chosen.
Welcome to the 2012 Re-Election Season Premier episode of Unicorns and Skittles – The Candyman Cometh Again.
http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2011/01/loughner-in-his-own-words-truth-about.html
I guess it was a pep rally..
http://tammybruce.com/2011/01/summing-up-the-tucson-obama-rally.html
No guessing at all. It was.
Everyone knows Saddam had a robust WMD program. But not in 2003.
That’s your take, but even if he was full of it, that still does not negate the fact that Bush said “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa” when it was known to be a crock.
Only Michelle Malkin and Tammy Bruce have the courage to call it what it was…naked manipulation. Conservatives spooked by five days’ worth of “u r so unsivil” felt they had to squee over Obama’s speech. Maybe they were just relieved he didn’t outright blame them.
But don’t think for a moment the source of the smears wasn’t the White House and/or the DNC. Don’t think for a minute that they didn’t know what they were doing by packing that arena full of college kids and other people likely to support Obama. This was an attempt to bring back the 2008 campaign and kick start 2012. Point this out and you’ll be called “uncivil.”
Folks, if you learn nothing else from this gaudy spectacle, learn this: Obama certainly can win in 2012 and the American right is too pathetic and weak to stop him.
I remember the Wellstone campaign/memorial…like it was yesterday! They had a big screen up in front and kept honing in on people in the audience. When they showed Trent Lott on the screen…a Republican who came to show his respects… he was loudly boo’d. When Wellstone’s campaign manager entered the picture, it was total chaos. He kept whipping up the audience with “We’re going to win the election for Paul!” Over and over, getting louder each time. Our (then) Governor Jesse (The Body) Ventura was so disgusted with the display, he got up and stomped out, and you know it takes a lot to outrage that guy! Of course, this event LOST them the election, so somethng good did come out of it.
Red State Skeptic said:
And what does this line of blather have to do with Tucson, AZ?
I am reading in sports boards no less about how Obama lied. They are asking why he had to say Giffords open her eyes for the first time when he visited her, only to have the surgeon say she opened them Sunday.
The tone of the “memorial service” showed a disconnect once again with the President and the People.
I was hoping for some apology for his own rhetoric. He blew an opportunity. People love shows of humility. But it is just not in him. Same with trolls like RedState and Chap.
In the intelligence world, you often don’t know something to be definite and you often don’t know something do be a crock.
The bottom line is, even if some individual aspects of the intel were oversold in public, every intelligence community in the world thought Saddam Hussein had significant WMDs. Every General that’s written about the war thought Saddam Hussein had significant WMDs (which is why our troops conducted much of the invasion in MOPP gear), and every neighbor of Saddam Hussein believed Iraq possessed significant WMDs.
Do you know why? Because Saddam Hussein wanted his neighbors to think that he had significant WMDs, and he did what he could to perpetuate that belief.
Now, regardless of all of this, it’s still obvious that you don’t know the meaning of the word branding. This event was branded. The war against Iraq wasn’t.
Last point, the Mission Accomplished sign was erected for the crew of that aircraft carrier that had, indeed, accomplished their mission during their deployment and were on their way home. Do you have a problem with that?
I heard media reports saying that he said that Rep Giffords opened her eyes after he visited (which sounded an awful lot like his “presence” had a curative effect) but then I listened to that part of his speech and he was clear that it happened after he and his wife left.
I also heard from the representative who was actually in the room when it happened–I can’t recall her name–and she made it clear that the president was not present. She also mentioned the eye patch and that Giffords could only open one eye. There the president was clearly in the wrong because he used the plural.
The press’ bumbling copy conflates (purposefully or not) his visit with Giffords’ progress. I can see where people who didn’t hear the speech would think the president seemed to be taking some miracle credit.
“Courage”? They make their livelihood criticizing the president.
Likely for the same reason that Hillary Rodham Clinton had to say she was named for Sir Edmund Hillary, who was famous for his climb of Everest, which climb occurred roughly 5+1/2 years after Clinton was born….
It seems that the worldview one holds is an all-or-none phenomenon, within which one cannot pick and choose, cafeteria-style, which characteristics to adopt, and which ones to refuse.
With very few exceptions, this whole event sickened me.
T-shirts?
A new slogan/meme for Obama and a GOP House?
If you aren’t prone to cynicism, then watching and listening to this event should help you overcome your naivete.
This had all the solemnity of a Las Vegas convention.
It really chaps my a$$ when the best show on cable television (RedEye) is pre-empted to replay a speech by the worst president ever.
That was the most disqusting display of dis-respect for the victims. When the whooping started I turned it off. My first thought was “didn’t their parents teach their kids any respect for the dead??” I didn’t know then about the T-shirt!!! I am totally appalled.
If I had been a relative of any of the victims I would have left.
Particularly if they nominate Romneycare and undercut their best campaign issue.
The RNC is already at work making sure only an amnesty supporter gets nominated, again.
I watched this last night and was truly appalled. Those people were whooping it up for Obama. I would think the event was not about Obama but about the victims in a tragedy. I could understand appreciation for Obama showing up for the memorial. That would be appropriate. Did he show up for the Ft Hood massacre? I can even see them cheering his call for calm and to tone down political rhetoric. That would help take the focus from politics and put it rightly on the victims. But they were cheering him just for being him. They were supporting him, not the victims so it seemed more a campaign rally than a memorial.
I also thought that sometimes people need to let their emotions out during a time of crisis and tragedy. As the
medicine manUniversity Professor said, sometimes humor can help heal. I also think that wakes that celebrate life are better than tearful funerals so I thought this was a little bit of that.I also thought Obama was going into his Black church routine there for a while. They tend to whoop it up a lot in black churches with amens and hallelujahs and spontaneous outbursts. Its just a style they prefer. So Obama was just playing up to the crowd a little.
His play on the little girls death would normally be a great gesture for a sitting President, but I have no respect for Obama or his motives. As an earlier poster pointed, out, he only talks about compromise to get others to bend to his will. Do you think he will come out today and announce he is dropping his lawsuit against Arizona as a gesture of his goodwill?
The man lied about his church affiliations, which is a very important part of who he is. I don’t trust him one iota. He is an actor on a stage. His “feelings” and “emotions” are all for political theatre. I felt a little sad for the families but its also possible they wanted this sort of whooping and hollering event to ease their pain.
To each his own, I guess.
Red State Skeptic said:
Just go outside and run up and down your block and chant:”Together We Thrive” as you wave that Hot pocket in your your hand.
Come on. George Tenet told them DON’T SAY IT. Because he knew the evidence was FORGED. Even if there were any doubt that the documents were real (and there wasn’t), if the White House had any shred of decency, they would have at least qualified the statement by saying “while the C.I.A. disagrees” or that the British government believes something. When you say that someone has “learned” something, that means it’s true, or at least not controverted by findings of your own intelligence community.
“Oversold”? “OVERSOLD”? The White House LIED, point blank. They knew they had to sell the country on the fact that not only did Saddam have WMD’s but that he was actively pursuing nuclear weapons, AND that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks. The lies worked, as a majority of Americans did believe there was a link between Saddam and al Qaeda when we went to war, even as the White House knew that there was no evidence of a link whatsoever.
If you want to define branding so narrowly not to include propaganda, fine. But they are both bad for the exact same reason. And you cannot deny that from Firdos Square to Jessica Lynch to Mission Accomplished to Pat Tillman to every time they pretended the enemy was in the “last throes,” that the wars were given heavy, dishonest propaganda by the White House.
Complete BS. That was only what the White House said after things didn’t turn out to be so “accomplished” in Iraq. Given the fact that there were no other “mission accomplished” banners to honor troops before or after that disaster, and the fact that Bush himself now regrets doing that photo-op, what would make you believe that spin?
I’ve been out of town and missed Saul Alinksy’s speech. Let’s see, one of the trolls shows up to complain about WMDs. So I guess Bush did it.
Hey RSS,
google wikileaks and yellowcake. Then you could be a little more informed.
And no, there was no yellowcake discovered in Tucson.
AlohaGuy,
I’m late to this party, too, so forgive me if someone has already posted a similar comment, but here’s what I heard Soetorobama say…
Your entire reply just proved my point, that you don’t understand the difference between “branding” and “propaganda,” which is apparently the word you were originally searching for… And it’s even more painfully apparent when the only quotation you make from my post bowdlerizes the sentence to omit that point. Which means you recognized the point, but are unable to admit it. Which demonstrates that your segue to shoehorn the Iraq war into the conversation was a meritless tortured leap of illogic just so you can play tu quoque. It’s tiresome.
Does that mean that Obama will stop talking about bringing a gun to the fight and punishing his enemies?
I liked what President Reagan said better:
Especially this article
Larry Elder has a lot of good articles that debunk the claim of Bush lied. You should check them out for your own edification.
And no, Bush was not responsible for the killings in Tucson.
I agree,
RedPill, the same was said by one father after the Colorado shootings.
Evil is in this world which began when Cain slew Able.
More like Mars Attacks when the Martians were saying “We come in peace” while attacking.
So you believe that the fact that Saddam Hussein turned out to possess uranium (no idea when he got it or how long he sat on it) excuses the fact that Bush cited intelligence that he knew was false to prove that Saddam had “recently” sought uranium. If so, you have extremely low standards for your elected officials.
FIFY.
Red State Skeptic said:
More dupe’nik speak?
Again with the psychic abilities. You haven’t seen the intelligence reports yourself, believe it or not, sometimes there is contradictory intelligence, and you have to make a judegment call on what to believe. You don’t KNOW what other people “KNEW” because you don’t know what they believed at the time. Case in point, you’ve been presented with lots of intel indicating Anthropogenic Global Warming. Does this mean you KNOW AGW is a real threat? Do we get to call you a brazen liar if you say otherwise?
Don’t get confused here, the debate is NOT about the merits of AGW theory. The debate is NOT about the validity of the Iraq war. The debate is about throwing out nonsense about “branding” the war like this “memorial service” has been branded, and your inability or refusal to recognize the definition of the word branding. But by all means, try changing the subject again to a different argument you think you can win, as that seems to be the only M.O. here.
Obviously you didn’t read the link. The 9/11 commission said the evidence shows Saddam was seeking yellowcake to develop nuclear weapons. Wilsons claim to the contrary was debunked by them and the report he gave to the CIA was the opposite of his media reports.
I can’t help you if you don’t read them. But you already have your preconcieved notions, so whatever.
And yes, I saw some extremely low standards from elected officials at that debacle in Tucson. Not from my party though.
I see RSS is still peddling those same old long-discredited liberalisms. Yawn.
Back to the subject at hand – is anyone else glad they missed the Tuscon Obama Pep Rally??
I also liked how Reagan said
I don’t think you’ll ever hear that from Obama.
He and the rest of the Democratic Socialists are busy preaching the supremacy of the State (Obamacare).
We do know that the White House was instructed by George Tenet to take that language out of the State of the Union address. We know that the reason is that the C.I.A. had found the documents that the UK relied on to be forged. If you want to split hairs over epistemology, you have to at least grant that it was dishonest for Bush to state that the British government had “learned” of something that he had reason to believe was false, without disclosing that doubt.
JHSII said:
I saw about 15 seconds of it this morning and then turned it off. I am not happy I even saw 15 seconds of this circus.
Re the update from the NYT, what chutzpah!:
Ya mean like…hold on for it…The New York Times?
Physician, heal yourself!
I don’t think he did…did he? As Commander in Chief, that should have been a given. If he didn’t go, that was dereliction of duty, in my opinion. So, a member of Congress is more important to the POTUS than 13 of our military plus an unborn child? We sure know the answer to that one. He is truly the most UNAMERICAN POTUS we have ever had!
No one believed this…this is a lie pushed by the left; none of us ever thought that..it is your buddies in the alphabet channels and Crimes who said the Bush administration said this..no one said it..more revisionest history. Remember the narrative? Keep it up..I enjoy making a fool out of you…
Sooo…are you just stupid or a patholgoical liar ..oh yes, neo-Dems are liar..never mind.
WASHINGTON — A deputy prime minister of Iraq yesterday offered a sharp contradiction of the conventional wisdom here that Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and Al Qaeda had no connection before the 2003 war, flatly contradicting a recent report from the Senate’s intelligence committee.
In a speech in which he challenged the belief of war critics that Iraqis’ lives are now worse than under Saddam Hussein, Barham Salih said, “The alliance between the Baathists and jihadists which sustains Al Qaeda in Iraq is not new, contrary to what you may have been told.” He went on to say, “I know this at first hand. Some of my friends were murdered by jihadists, by Al Qaeda-affiliated operatives who had been sheltered and assisted by Saddam’s regime.”
Soo…keep up the revisionist history lessons…foolish, uneducated RSS.
There’s no way the CIA would have definitively claimed that it wasn’t true. Just because realistic purchases of yellow cake were a non-starter from the beginning doesn’t mean that Iraq didn’t explore that issue.
How is it a lie if everyone with access to the raw intel believes it to be true?
Saddam Hussein was responsible for the 911 attacks. Osama Bin Ladan’s goal was to expel the US military presence from the area. Saddam Hussein was the only reason the US military had any presence in the area. The UN embargo and the UN no-fly zone enforcement were only two the direct reasons.
So I’m not sure how you can say that Iraq wasn’t involved in 911.
1. It’s not me that wants to define branding that way – it’s the entire world that defines branding that way.
2. There was no propaganda. I’ll acknowledge that the country was oversold. That certainly isn’t branding – not even close.
Contracting terminal cancer and having terminal heart disease are both bad for the same reason. That doesn’t mean that cancer is heart disease.
It’s not BS at all. That’s exactly why that banner was erected. It’s despicable for you to suggest otherwise.
Bush regrets it because horrible idiots like you were able to deliberately mischaracterized it.
Good post.
Alas, some people seem to be in a late 60s-early 70s time-warp.
What’s scary is, that they can vote….
I hate to keep repeating myself, but Dick Cheney said that it was “pretty much confirmed” that Mohammad Atta went to Prague to meet with a high-level Iraqi operative prior to 9/11, after the C.I.A. had debunked that claim. Cheney’s claim was not publicly discredited until after the Iraq war. At the start of the Iraq war, a majority of the American public believed that Saddam Hussein was at least in part responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Sorry, but those are facts.
Pray tell, Corkie. What makes you believe that?
Red State Skeptic, even if everything you’re saying about the Iraq war is true, that still isn’t branding.
About the Iraq war, which did you want to do at the time?
1. Invade Iraq?
2. Not invade, but stay in Saudi Arabia and continue to enforce the UN no-fly zone and UN trade embargo (which remember – was causing the radicals to hate us)?
3. Not invade, but withdrawal our military from Saudi Arabia and allow Saddam Hussein to slaughter his Shiite enemies and massacre the Kurds as well as import more weapons in order to threaten his neighbors – again?
Because the order to erect the banner came from PACFLT – not the White House or anyone from Washington.
Red State Skeptic said:
Until you can explain why the Fearless Leader cannot tell the truth about a Wounded Congresswoman and the day she opened her eyes, I think all your blather concerning anything concerning Bush is moot.
Maybe he’s trying to say that lying equals branding or something. I’m not sure.
Maybe he’s confusing branding with marketing in general. Sure, the war was marketed to the American people, but it certainly wasn’t branded. Marketing doesn’t equal branding.
Corkie, you are either misinformed or extremely gullible. The White House contradicted itself more than once about where the idea came from. For months, it insisted that the Navy produced the banner, but then acknowledged that it had lied, but that it made the banner at the crew’s request.
As John Dickerson reported, “They (the White House) put up banners at every event that look just like that and we’re supposed to believe that at this one it was the Navy that requested one?” asked a senior administration official. Others remember staffers boasting about how the president had been specifically positioned during his speech so that the banner would be captured in footage of his speech.
Ultimately, Corkie, if Bush regretted the banner, then it means he had a hand in the decision to put it up.
On January 13th, 2011 at 2:58 pm, corkie said:
About the Iraq war, which did you want to do at the time?
Corkie, I was on the fence about the invasion. The reason I thought it might be worthwhile was that though I suspected that the White House was overselling the cause some, I never thought for a second that they would tell flat out lies to bring us to war. How wrong I was.
The doctors say she opened her eyes for the first time on her own yesterday. Or one eye, anyway, since the other is covered. If you still want to say Obama “lied” about that, it’s not exactly a Pat Tillman whopper.
Not “the” documents. Some documents. If I copied your birth certificate word for word, and signed it “Benjamin Franklin,” would you introduce yourself with the caveat that there is some doubt about your name because some evidence of it was unreliable? Again, you are ignoring the factors of 1) a totality of evidence of which you are unaware, and 2) the role of a judgement call in an inexact science, in order to make blanket accusations which require you to have psychic mind-reading capabilities.
To have doubt, and to be disproved are not the same thing. And no, it is not the role of the President to recite classified intel at press conferences including all caveats, addendums, qualifiers, incongruities, exceptions, statistical probabilities, and astrological implications.
But your unmittigated gall in glossing over the IMPORTANT part of every post is getting to be sad. Here it is again:
And change the subject is exactly what you did… AGAIN. You enjoy proving me right? I suppose that’s not the worst character flaw one could have…
But since we’re in such a fun and contrary mood:
1. You’re wrong because that’s not what Reagan said
2. You’re wrong because even if he had said that, it’s not what the poster “liked better”
3. You’ve added nothing of value to the discussion because your petulant appendation does nothing to refute the truth nor value of the original poster’s point in comparing the respective religious attitudes of the two presidents.
4. Instead, you abruptly and unreasonably changed the subject to one you could “reasonably” complain about, which seems to be your raison d’etre.
I am the opposite of misinformed. I know from a firsthand source that PACFLT ordered the banner to be erected. The fact that some presidential advance team assisted in printing the banner is meaningless.
You’re the one that’s gullible for believing your left wing conspiracy theorists.
Are you serious? What planet do you live on? It’s good to see you ruin your credibility by making this definitive statement.
RSS, when you get a chance, I’d like to know which of our options you were calling for at the time. It shouldn’t take much time. Just type the number.
Btw, I was calling for Option 3 at the time. I thought, at the time, that Option 1 was the wrong way to go. You?
Ahhh, I’m ready for some fun in the snow, but there is obviously a link between branding and propaganda. Bush used a tragedy for his own political aggrandizement, and so has Obama. That is the essence of what Obama’s done, and I don’t see any reason to even debate that fact.
Reagan… he was a lying sack of sh*t who said nice things like that while covertly assisting our mortal enemies. May he burn in hell with his Ayatollah buddies.