Sunday Debt Negotiation & Mortgaging Our Future Open Thread
**Written by Doug Powers
I’m going to wait to see what ends up happening at this afternoon’s meetings before saying anybody “caved,” because the chess match is ongoing, but at the moment it appears that John Boehner’s willing to agree to raise the debt ceiling as long as it includes more in spending cuts than the amount of the increase in the ceiling.
Last night, Boehner took the $4 trillion plan off the table because reportedly President Obama said he’d agree to it… provided it included $1 trillion (make that $2 trillion) worth of tax hikes (is the White House reading the same jobs reports the rest of us are?).
Citing differences over tax revenues, House Speaker John A. Boehner said on Saturday night that he would pull back from joint efforts with President Obama to reach a sweeping $4 trillion deficit-reduction plan tied to a proposal to increase the federal debt limit.
On the eve of a second round of high-level bipartisan talks set for Sunday, Mr. Boehner issued a statement saying he would now urge negotiators to instead focus on crafting a smaller package more in line with the $2 trillion to $3 trillion in spending cuts and revenue increases negotiated earlier by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.
“Despite good-faith efforts to find common ground, the White House will not pursue a bigger debt reduction agreement without tax hikes,” Mr. Boehner said. “I believe the best approach may be to focus on producing a smaller measure, based on the cuts identified in the Biden-led negotiations, that still meets our call for spending reforms and cuts greater than the amount of any debt limit increase.”
[...]
Republicans said that Mr. Boehner decided to disclose his new position Saturday night to give the White House and Congressional leaders who are to meet Sunday evening sufficient time to make adjustments in their thinking.
Whatever “cuts” are agreed to, count me among the skeptics, because the “cuts” will be accompanied by a raise in the debt ceiling. Ask any financial guru not employed by the White House — If somebody claims to want to take drastic steps to get their financial house in order, and the first thing they do is beg for an increase in their credit limit, can that person possibly be serious about getting out of the hole?
I’d be more optimistic of positive fiscal “change” if the GOP line in the sand was “no increase in debt limit, period” rather than “raise the debt ceiling as long as we cut more than that amount in spending.” Spending cuts are like lost cats — they have a knack for finding their way right back where they came from. The debt ceiling keeps the door locked.
In other financial disaster news, Treasury Secretary Geithner was on Face the Nation this morning, and Turbo-Tim went all Gene Kranz on the issue of debt negotiations:

*****
He’s sort of correct — given the administration’s procedures to “fix” things, which includes doing more of what caused the problems in the first place, there is no other option except failure. The “failure is not an option” line Geithner mentioned was made famous by Gene Kranz, which leads me to this hypothetical: I shudder to think what would have happened if Tim Geithner had been in charge of Mission Control during Apollo 13. Lovell, Swigert and Haise would be nearing Alpha Centauri by now (assuming they wouldn’t have blown up on the launch pad) and Geithner would still be trying to resolve the problem by raising the disaster limit.
More lousy news for the economy: This morning Geithner also said that he wouldn’t be stepping down from his position “for the foreseeable future.”
I’ll post any updates from today’s debt negotiations as news warrants. Have a great Sunday all!
**Written by Doug Powers
Twitter @ThePowersThatBe
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The games the elites play are sickening. Whenever they want to raise taxes, they threaten to cut education and services so that the public will cave. It is the same thing with the debt ceiling/default thing. We are presented with a threat to hold us hostage and cave to allow the spending to increase. Well now the spending has increased way beyond the amount taken in, at what point does the spending, borrowing and printing of money become more dangerous than the threat of a default? When does it become a really grave problem and not a trick to get what they want? This behavior is reckless and betrays the public trust. What right to they have to continue this behavior? None of us would get away with this for long in our private lives, so why allow this to continue? Our politicians are incapable of running the country correctly. We said no to TARP, stimulus 1 & 2, bhocare etc, and spend, spend, spend is what they did. The economy will go where it goes because there is so much denial in DC about the truth and no one cares about fixing it, only maintaining it. Does anyone care about China funding our gov programs? Serfdom doesn’t come with a retirement plan.
You’re absolutely correct. And if we don’t, the politicians are fully justified in thinking that we don’t care that much, no matter how much mail or how many phone calls to the contrary.
Maybe a little off-topic but not really, it looks like “Chimerica” is unravelling like a cheap suit.
The last time globalism blew up was in 1914 when the world was rudely awakened by the reality that the British-German global relationship not only wasn’t symbiotic as everyone assumed, but cynically competitive. There was no smooth transition to the new reality. WWI was the direct result.
Today, everyone has been foolishly assuming that Chimerica is sybiotic as the Chinese steal our techology, rip off the American companies who invest in China and practice mercantilism to our great detriment. The official stance of the American globalists is that we will make a smooth transition to a world where the dollar is no longer the reserve currency. The problem is that history has never witnessed that kind of smooth transition.
This is the 3rd attempt at globalism. The last two, WWI being the last, ended in catastrophic wars where millions of people died. We may very well be about to go that route again.
Unfortunately, war is the normal state of affairs in the world and we are never without it to one degree or another, even during the time since the imposition of the “Pax Americana”. People who think that it can be otherwise are utopian fools.
No, I am NOT confusing failure to raise the debt ceiling with default. The debt ceiling WILL be raised because in the end, we have to. But failing to do so by August 2 is not important.
Defaulting is a decision Obama will have to make. As the big day gets nearer, he will have no choice but to relent to big spending cuts (notice defunding ObamaCare is not in the GOP demands? Just sayin’.), agree to pushing for a balanced budget amendment, capping future spending and debt, and flattening the tax code and other things.
The only reason Obama got this far is because the GOP enabled him. It’s not Obama who is strong, it is the GOP that is weak. Do I have to bring up Trump again?
Personally, I can’t see avoiding another world war. There is just no way to balance the books. The entire world banking system is insolvent to the point that it will take a few generations of inflation to pay off the debt. The entire debt of the US alone is estimated at about 800% of GDP ($14T). It is also estimated that credit default swaps alone amount to about $600T globally against a world production of about $54T. No one knows for sure.
And the “dark pools” of investment capital that serves as the shadow banking system is larger than the disclosed economy. It’s all imploding under its own weight. It’s all paper wealth.
The final straw is that the entire global economy is predicated on the abundance of cheap energy. Those days are over. Green is not going to produce the big gains in productivity that are needed to grow our way out of the problem.
There is going to be a reset and those with a lot of money are ultimately going to take the big hit when the piper demands payment. That day will make these budget talks look like a pollyana convention.
Well, yes, that’s what happens when you return Democrat Senators like Boxer to Congress and let the Democrats retain their majority. The House, no matter how much you may fantasize, can’t do it all alone.
Now that’s fantasy.
If we have another world war, we’re going to lose. We’re dreadfully unprepared for war against even a moderately strong enemy, much less against a huge, modern army like China’s. We’ve already demonstrated to the world over the past 60 years that we no longer have the heart and willingness to sacrifice to pursue a war to a clear conclusion.
I’m less concerned about that in the near future than I am about the likelihood that an American city is going to be hit with a nuclear weapon. Iran is close enough to having a device that it is now a real-time threat. MAD doesn’t work with suicide bombers.
It all depends on your definition of “cheap”. Given inflation over the past 50 years and the cost of alternatives, oil isn’t all that expensive. What’s making it look expensive is all of the bureaucratic interference in resource development – for instance, the 5 billion dollar hit that Shell just took on Arctic leases, due entirely to the bureaucrats of the Obama Administration.
I have zero faith that Boehner will reach any sort of deal that forces Obama to cut spending.
What Obama is trying to do is throw a really big number out for spending cuts at some point years and years down the road so he can continue to borrow money and spend every last bit of our tax dollars now.
The spending cuts will never materialize in such a deal. Either they put up REAL CUTS THAT HAPPEN NOW…
Or No EFFING Deal…
That should be Boehner’s position.
Sadly, it ain’t.
Mr. Boehner and the other Repubs in the negotiations need to each grow a pair and call the Dems bluff.
Don’t blink.
Force the issue.
Geithner is full of crap. He has Obama’s same agenda. He’s not impartial.
That’s because there are too many leftists in government and among the citizenry.
A problem in dire need of fixing.
A local talk-show host brought up the Popeye/Wimpy analogy …. “I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today “
I hope the GOP sticks to its guns this time and gets $2 T in REAL cuts before agreeing to raise the debt ceiling…I don’t trust Democrats to honor any agreement, so it should be accompanied by a signed, sealed and delivered budget that reflects the cuts, not just promises.
Great photoshop idea (but I don’t have the talent to pull it off). Happy as Joan d’Arc with Cross in one hand and the Battle Skillet in the other.
cabrerski,
You may lack the necessary photo-manipulatory skills, but you`re makin` up for it in mental image painting. An art-form in itself ! Paint on !
OT:Obama administration approves sale of tanks to Egypt
Something smells fishy. Selling tanks to Egypt at this moment in time is not unlike pouring gasoline on a forest fire. Is there any reason to believe that the present Egyptian government can be relied upon? Is there any reason to believe that the future government of Egypt can be trusted?
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/07/obama_administration_approves_sale_of_tanks_to_egypt.html
….it would appear that Barry, Mrs. Clinton and the DOD are either blind to the situation in the Middle East or are intentionally threatening Israel.
***
(1.Just a few problems with this first sentence. First, there is no “government of Egypt.” There is a terrorist mob controlling the country with fear, intimidation and death – it’s called the Muslim Brotherhood – and the reports of 7,000 Egyptians imprisoned by the Brotherhood head choppers in the past few months is likely a gross underestimate.
2.Sale of tanks? Egypt is broke….how are they going to pay for 125 Tanks?)
The GOP leadership will get snookered again by the biggest flim flam man ever….
I’m sick and tired of being sick and tired of Republican wimps throughout the House (and Senate). Obama and Company must laugh and giggle so hard at McConnell they fall out of their chairs. Boehner cries as Democrats laugh.
It’s not like they don’t know O is a thug from Chicago…..
Absolutely yes.
People died as a result of this fiasco under Holder’s and Obama’s watch. Watergate was about deceit, break-ins and illegal surveillance.
Considering how hard the Dems and their sycophants in the media have worked to equate not raising the ceiling with default, the GOP’s urge to cave will be strong. However, there is a point where the fate of the country is more important than public opinion. They just have to get there.
The government brings in enough revenue to service the debt. Default will only happen if the government chooses to keep spending instead of servicing debt. Judging by GM and Chrysler, I’d be very concerned if I was holding U.S. debt.
I’ve never really understood the original goal. How, exactly, was it supposed to help to allow thousands of high power rifles to be sold to the drug gangs?
I’m having a hard time imagining a meeting where someone says:
“Anybody got any ideas on how we can (insert worthy law enforcement goal here)?”
And someone chimes in with “Why don’t we let them buy as many guns as they want?”
And everyone says “Yeah! Great idea!”
Who were these people?
When was this meeting?
Are they insane or just ‘under the influence’?
Did anyone in Counter-Terrorism think this operation was such a great idea, they thought they should let Al-Qaeda get some suitcase-nukes?
Qualified YES: I am fairly certain that the beginning of the Rouge part of the operation was the ATF punishing President Bush for allowing Bill Clinton’s “Assault Arms Ban” to expire and then ordering the FBI to Obey The Law and NOT keep records of the Instant Background Checks (National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS).
Both the FBI and ATF are rouge agencies convinced THEY have the answers to all problems. That is their mindset that led to Ruby Ridge and the Fiasco at Waco. That people we wrongfully killed due to Project Gunrunner, Gunwalker, whatever seems to be of little consequence to these bureaucrats.
From the Non Political, always the professionals FBI NICS site: NICS, is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns and explosives …
Then again I should answer that as did NJ-Aviator: Absolutely yes .
==
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms–>Constitutional Carry
It is a RIGHT-not a license from “our betters”.
Dr Anthony a ’30′s radio program to solve folks problems. One problem to solve was the financial problems of man who had a yacht, vacationed in the Caribbean, had Rolls Royce, and owned 3 homes. Dr Anthony inquired of the man “Well, what’s your problem?” The man replied “I only make $25 a week.” That man today is Barack Obama.
If they raise the debt ceiling, it will never be lowered again. That is the problem with these deals. Nobody demands it be lowered when things “allegedly” are back under control economically. SPEND SPEND SPEND TAX TAX TAX SPEND SPEND. It is the Obama Socialist way.
My understanding of the “bad” part (as opposed to the boring part) of Watergate was that there was a threat of using the IRS to punish political enemies.
Since the IRS was used to punish enemies of JFK and LBJ (not just threatened), I’d say Watergate was the kind of “scandal” one only sees afflict Republicans. Clinton weathered 10 or more incidents of greater magnitude than Watergate; Most were barely noticed.
Gunrunner:
A group of more than 600 mayors are calling on Barry to strengthen and increase enforcement of the nation’s gun laws in the wake of a controversial gun tracking operation that may have contributed to the death of at least one federal agent.
The mayors’ letter is a follow-up to a letter they sent in March laying out 40 recommendations for strengthening the country’s gun laws.
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/170575-mayors-call-on-obama-to-strengthen-gun-laws
“So, the Obama-Clinton criminal machine has been sending thousands – and probably tens of thousands – of AK-platform weapons not only into the hands of the narco-terror gangs in Mexico and Central America, but also into the hands of their muslim allies who have been and will continue to plot Mumbai-style attacks against the U.S….”
http://barnhardt.biz/
Holder in 2009:
“Last week, our administration launched a major new effort to break the backs of the cartels. My department is committing 100 new ATF personnel to the Southwest border in the next 100 days to supplement our ongoing Project Gunrunner, DEA is adding 16 new positions on the border, as well as mobile enforcement teams, and the FBI is creating a new intelligence group focusing on kidnapping and extortion. DHS is making similar commitments, as Secretary Napolitano will detail.”
Read more: Is this why White House funded ‘guns-to-drug-lords’ scheme? http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=320809#ixzz1Ro2xzfoa
The Debt:
“Obama’s into big stuff”, says chief of staff Bill Daley on ABC’s This Week.
“I do firmly believe that one of the wet blankets on this economy and on companies, on the system right now is a question as to whether or not our political system, whether the leaders can get together, whether they can solve big problems,” Daley said.
So let’s define the “big, wet blanket problem” in which Barry and his Chicago friends now find themselves:
They are addicted to big taxes, big spending and big government, and none of it- NONE. OF. IT. – has a darn thing to do with what’s best for the public and the economy.
All of it- ALL. OF. IT. – has to do with funneling money into Democrat Party coffers.
And it’s sitting like a wet blanket over our economy. And Daley’s right. Democrat leaders can’t solve it. They couldn’t solve it when they ran the tax scam in Chicago and they can’t solve it now.
The results are showing in our two parallel economies: One for the Democrat Party and one for the rest of us. In order to keep the Democrat Party’s economy humming along, they are going to need a new injection of taxes, because the public won’t write them a blank check again.
The “big problem” that Daley, Barry and the Rezko clones find themselves in is that they had a super majority in Congress; they were handed a blank check by the American people; and they’ve squandered it in pork barrel spending for their friends.
So they have to turn to a tax-to-spend scheme to keep the party (and their Party) going.
http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/johnransom/2011/07/11/obummer_the_tax_scam_faileth/page/full/
Yesterday, on NBC’s Meet The Press, moderated by Obama sycophant David Gregory, Treasury Secretary Turbo Tax Tim Geithner pronounced that many Americans will face hard times for a long time to come.
http://kingsjester.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/obamas-re-election-campaign-and-the-debt-ceiling/
OOTD video
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/11/obamateurism-of-the-day-544/
Boehner should trump the speechifier in chief and say ” OK, you want to go back to the Clinton 1999 tax code, We’ll do it! For EVERYBODY! Then I’ll expect you to cut Medicare, Medicaid, and SS. After all, we gave you huge tax increases, so you give us HUGE entitlement cuts.”
The left just really doesn’t get it that people with money, you know the EMPLOYERS, can pick up their dollars and go elsewhere. Can all those ESSENTIAL EMPLOYEES pick up their job and go to China and work for the prevailing wages. You demanded and demanded and demanded, and the government taxed and regulated and taxed again, and the lawyers sued, and the employees bitched and the lawyers sued again, until the employers said” I’m outta here.”
YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW! YOU WANT TO BE THE BOSS BRO, BE THE BOSS AND HIRE SOME OF YOUR POSSE. BUT ASK YOURSELF THIS, IF SOMEONE GAVE YOU 5 MILLION BUCKS TODAY, WOULD YOU START A BUSINESS AND HIRE PEOPLE, OR WOULD YOU GO LIVE ON A BEACH AND SUCK DOWN PINA COLADAS?
What a tool Gregory is. I watched a Rockies baseball game on Friday night and they played the Nationals. David Gregory was front row, center, behind home plate – part of the perks, I suppose, for being a sycophant of the Far Left media. What a yutz.
Part of the problem is the way everyone is focusing on cuts. I don’t think people truly understand how much revenue is available every year. The federal revenue for 2009 was $2,105 Bilion or $2.1 Trillion. For 2010, it was $2,162 Billion or $2.16 Trillion. One estimate for 2011 is $2,173 Billion or $2.17 Trillion.
The focus needs to be on how this is more than enough revenue to run the country and pay the debt.
Has anyone else noticed that gas prices were going down, then Obama released oil from the SPR, now gas prices are up 15 cents since then?
Please stop helping me.
Boehner has finally had his wings clipped by the House Republicans. He’s been trying to play “nice” with Obama, believing he can actually negotiate a Conservative settlement with him, without giving up his opposition to Obama’s agenda. He’s wrong and his fellows in the House know it.
Now he’s stuck with half way committing himself to Obama on things he cannot deliver.
Apparently he didn’t pay attention to us before he started playing golf with Obama and Biden. He’s just as deluded as Obama now and needed to find out there’s nobody backing his attempts at “negotiation,” if he’s going to give Obama what Obama wants. Obama wants to put off all the hard stuff until after the election, so he can countermand it with Executive Orders.
Obama has been in over his head from the start, but he’s not stupid. Boehner had better re-group and re-think his motives and tactics.
Regarding Project Gunrunner, you aint seen nothin’ yet! This will ultimately turn out to be one of the biggest government scandals of our time and will result in lots of bureaucrats retiring, resigning, or being fired.
Unfortunately, it should include Holder, Napolitano, Clinton, and others at the top levels of our Government. This kind of an International fiasco would topple any former administration. Our MSM will not however, allow that to happen to Obama.
Obama, Biden, Clinton, Napolitano will likely skate, although they shouldn’t. A decision of this magnitude (this operation) can only be made one of two ways at the Federal level; either with the approval, or aquiescence of the man at the top, or approved by a totally rogue, out of control bunch of sub-bureaucrats, who thought they could control International affairs.
In either event, there is only one plausable reason this incredibly stupid operation was allowed to happen; to bolster the administration’s efforts to control guns in the United States. Any other explanation would sound so totally off base, it would be even more stupid.
Issa and Grassley have lots to work with in their Congressional investigations, but this one calls for an Independent Counsel, who cannot be fired, intimidated, or controlled by Obama.
I can “foresee” 2012 from my house….
If you ever want proof that marxists have taken over the republican party just watch the cave-in.
So, where’s the Tea Party? They disappeared after November 4th….this would be a perfect time for a 2 million DC march…..bueller?? bueller?