Debt Deal Watch; Boehner Having Trouble Rounding Up Enough House Votes; Politico: Biden Says Tea Party Has ‘Acted Like Terrorists;’ Update: Mr. Gaffetastic denies smear; Giffords’ return eclipses anticlimactic House passage, 269-161
**Written by Doug Powers
(Scroll down for updates)
I’ve got C-Span 2 on right now because, well, it isn’t football season yet — that and a vote may take place soon in the Senate on the Reid bill (I’ve discovered that the Detroit Lions aren’t the only thing that can make me yell at the TV on a Sunday afternoon). The vote still tentatively scheduled for 1 p.m. est, but it’s still unclear if it’ll go off as planned because other things are in the works.
Reportedly a deal is near:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. lawmakers were close to a last-gasp $3 trillion deal on Sunday to raise the borrowing limit and assure financial markets that the United States will avoid a potentially catastrophic default.
“We’re very close,” said Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, the top Senate Republican who is playing a key role in the debt ceiling negotiations.
White House senior adviser David Plouffe said there was general agreement on a deal that would cut the deficit in two stages. It was first time the White House had acknowledged that both sides were close to a deal.
The first $1 trillion in cuts have been largely agreed on by lawmakers. Under the emerging deal described by congressional aides, a further $1.8 trillion would be recommended by a special committee appointed by Congress and automatic measures would implement the planned cuts if Congress failed to vote on them.
[...]
The tentative agreement proposes setting up a committee, to be made up of members from both parties, that would be charged with negotiating the tough elements of reforming popular but expensive entitlement programs as well as the U.S. tax code.
In a mini-debate on the Senate floor debate between John McCain and Dick Durbin that’s ongoing as I write this, McCain admitted that at the current time there’s no way a balanced budget amendment could pass the Senate, but did appear optimistic that it might happen in 2012 “after the Senator from Illinois is defeated in the next election.” Heh. Hopefully, but it won’t happen without a little help from the hobbits, Senator McCain.
The Democrats are invoking Reagan so much I’m half expecting a Senate screening of Hellcats of the Navy before the day is out.
Consider this today’s debt ceiling open thread, and I’ll post updates as the day goes along as the situation warrants.
Update:
Democrats’ debt-ceiling bill failed to clear a key Senate hurdle Sunday afternoon, putting the onus on bipartisan negotiators to come up with an alternative plan with just two days to go until the Treasury runs out of ways to pay all of America’s bills.
The vote on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s plan was expected to fail. Sixty votes were required to advance the proposal, and it fell far short in a 50-49 roll call.
And this, as we discussed Friday, is no surprise:
Reid won over just one Republican supporter, Massachusetts Sen. Scott Brown, for his bill Sunday afternoon. On the Democratic side, he lost Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson, West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin, and Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent aligned with Democrats.
Update II:
According to Politico, Harry Reid has signed off on a new agreement:
The White House and Republican leaders closed in Sunday on a debt ceiling deal giving President Barack Obama greater certainty in managing the Treasury’s borrowing needs while making a joint commitment to major deficit reductions without any explicit concessions by the GOP on new tax revenues.
Late in the afternoon, a statement from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) said: “Senator Reid has signed off on the debt-ceiling agreement pending caucus approval.”
A vote on the new compromise could come tonight.
Update III (9:45 p.m.):
Ending a perilous stalemate, President Barack Obama announced agreement Sunday night with Republican congressional leaders on a compromise to avoid the nation’s first-ever financial default. The deal would cut more than $2 trillion from federal spending over a decade.
There will be no voting in the House and Senate until probably well into Monday as Reid and Boehner try to round up the votes. No telling yet on how difficult or easy that might be. But if it passes Obama will no doubt sign it immediately, which will be yet another nail in the coffin of that “five day” rule.
A transcript of Obama’s debt deal announcement is here.
If this turns out to be the case, so much for the “every dollar in debt ceiling increase must be met by a dollar in cuts” demand:
Obama said leaders of both political parties reached a broad deal Sunday night to raise the government’s debt ceiling while cutting spending. Earlier Sunday, congressional aides said the agreement would raise the debt ceiling by $2.4 trillion in three stages and provide initially for roughly $900 billion in spending cuts over 10 years.
Update number whatever Roman numeral we’re on now:
For GOP members of the House who were swayed by the inclusion of a balanced budget amendment, this could make the bill a tougher sell this time around:
A compromise debt ceiling agreement brokered by the White House and congressional Republicans would not require congressional passage of a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution as a condition for a second-round increase in the debt ceiling.
The deal does require the House and Senate to vote on a balanced budget amendment sometime in the last calendar quarter of this year. But not requiring congressional passage is a significant change from the proposal the House passed on Friday.
There’s no danger for the Democrats in agreeing to a vote on a balanced budget amendment this year or next year. A balanced budget amendment requirement that has the life span of a mayfly with a meth habit and expires just about the time the GOP could be hypothetically wind up in control of the House, Senate and White House isn’t really a selling point as far as Republicans are concerned — or at least shouldn’t be.
*****
David Vitter: This might be an accomplishment politically, but it isn’t fiscally.
Update V:
Outrageous outrage in today’s New York Times editorial:
There is little to like about the tentative agreement between Congressional leaders and the White House except that it happened at all. The deal would avert a catastrophic government default, immediately and probably through the end of 2012. The rest of it is a nearly complete capitulation to the hostage-taking demands of Republican extremists. It will hurt programs for the middle class and poor, and hinder an economic recovery.
The Times got the “hostage” memo.
*****
John Conyers calls for protest… at the White House.
Update VI:
Potential problems in the House. From The Hill:
The debt-limit deal announced on Sunday night is expected to attract more than 60 votes in the Senate, but its outlook in the House is much more cloudy.
Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) will need Democratic votes to clear the bill through the lower chamber. How many remains unclear. A total of 216 lawmakers must vote in favor of the package for it to clear the House, and Boehner will need to rely on members from both parties.
A list of those who are in, out and the “maybes” is here. Some Democrats and Republicans are lining up against, but for different reasons. Two examples: Emanuel Cleaver (D-MO) called it a “sugar-coated Satan sandwich” (I’ll take that as a “no”), and Joe Walsh (R-ocky Mountain Way) said “we can do better and we have to do better.”
Update VII:
According to Politico, behind closed doors, Vice President Biden is urging the Democrats to reach out to those members of Congress they disagree with in the spirit of bipartisanship. Just kidding!
**Written by Doug Powers
Twitter @ThePowersThatBe
Update VIII: Biden denies he used the “terrorism word.” He was just an enabling bystander who watched everyone else vent:
Vice President Joe Biden tells CBS News that published reports that he compared Tea Party-linked lawmakers to “terrorists” during a closed-door meeting Monday are “absolutely not true.”
“I did not use the terrorism word,” Biden told CBS Evening News anchor and managing editor Scott Pelley.
Politico, citing “several sources in the room,” reported Monday afternoon that the vice president, during a closed-door meeting with House Democrats about the deal to raise the debt limit, agreed with an argument by Rep. Mike Doyle of Pennsylvania, who reportedly asserted that “[w]e have negotiated with terrorists.”
The report said the vice president asserted in response, “They have acted like terrorists.”
Biden told Pelley he let lawmakers “vent” about the deal, which includes spending cuts but may not include revenue increases. (Some liberal House Democrats have vowed not to back the deal.) But he says he did not assert that he agreed with the terrorism comparison.
“What happened was there were some people who said they felt like they were being held hostage by terrorists,” he said. “I never said that they were terrorists or weren’t terrorists, I just let them vent.”
Update: 7:11pm Eastern
The House passed the Bipartisan Crappy Meal just now…final tally 269-161. See my Twitter page for all the live updates. The return of Democrat Rep. Gabby Giffords to the floor overshadowed the otherwise unpleasant, business-as-usual on the House floor.
Interesting juxtaposition of Giffords’ return with the continued, incivil rhetoric of the Tea Party-bashing Dems, eh?
***
Update: Here’s the House roll call vote.
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Because while I would love to see someone better there isn’t a lot in this area. Down in this neck of the woods it is a libtard hell. There was one lady that ran against Wasserman-scuzz by the name of Harrington that seemed like she was decent but I don’t know if she’d move into that district.
And on top of that it is not exactly a sure thing that West gets re-elected this is Palm Beach County and parts of Broward we are talking about here. I’ll look at the full body of work when everything is said and done but what I’m seeing so far isn’t doing it for me. Just my observation.
I did and Ryan is flat wrong on this one. He’s been flanked and does not know it. Go to Rush’s site nad levin’s site. Read their analysis. It’s dead on.
Paul Ryan kept repeating a brazen lie yesterday about how this deal REDUCES next year’s spending levels below 2010 spending levels. WTF??? It raises next year’s spending level 8% over THIS year.
And it sets up a Super Committee that is in gridlock on day one and that is allowed to only cut mostly from military and social security since ObamaCare and the other entitlements are untouchable.
We need to see “our” side for what it is. “Our” liars and as bad as “theirs”.
Was that why he voted yes? I didn’t know that! Thanks for enlightening me. I can’t read his mind yet, but I am working on that. Glad to see you can!
Translation. They abandoned their principles and caved.
Thanks for making my point.
Gladz…I love that word! Wow. As a writer, I don’t think I have used it yet, but I will now!
Even the “new guys” have to go if they failed the test. The reason they were elected was not a kept secret from them, expectations were clear. Do what you were sent to do, or we get somebody that will. Pretty simple.
I don’t have to get into West’s head. I listened to his interview with Laura Ingraham. I can’t find a transcript to quote, but he’s incoherent.
He said he was supporting his “field commander” or some such. Great. He was supposed to be representing the People, and defending the Constitution.
He also accused the TEA Party of Schizophrenia because we supported him one day, and then opposed him the next. He doesn’t seem to get that it was Allen West’s principles we supported not just the man.
He also demanded to know what he could vote for, if not this bill. I’ve heard that crap before from Bob Corker.
This wasn’t just any vote, guys. This was huge, and the bill that was passed is just a sick joke.
And this is from someone who sees the world in terms of good and evil. Dems are evil, Republicans are good but not perfect. “We are so screwed!”
You either do it right or you are eliminated. That is how it works in the corporate world which why they are profitable. If you want a merit-based society, stop forgiving people who gain entry to the ruling class by sticking it to YOU. Make them pay for being scoundrels.
I can recall how you were calling for Scott Brown to run for president when he won that special election. Do you have no principles at all?
I agree…it is a very bad bill!! Very Bad!
I, happyscrapper, did not say this was a victory for us! If I did, show me where I said that. This was definitely not a victory.
My point is this…we don’t have the inside track on what went on up there on the Hill. We weren’t privy to the kinds of propaganda, brainwashing, scare tactics, etc. that our “green” freshmen, who are not professional politicians, were subjected to. Until and unless we understand that, I am very reluctant to throw them under the bus. Seriously, I feel like some of you have been unfair in your rigid appraisal of them.
I repeat…these are Patriots. They are fighting pure Evil. They are Green Freshmen who aren’t versed in the political stuff. Stop castigating them and pray for them instead.
I am praying right now!
Nope just someone who doesn’t believe in blind party loyalty and who thinks if you give your word you should stand by it. I know, I know, I’m mean and hateful because I think there should be accountability. What’s next? Those of us that dare question how someone could vote for that debt deal going to be deemed racist too?
Phil…if I ever said I wanted Scott Brown for President, you have to show me where I said it. Because I don’t believe I could ever have jumped the gun on a candidate who hadn’t even proven his conservative credentials. In fact, my recollection is that I thought people were really premature in talking about him in terms of the presidency before he even served in congress. There was no conservative record to go by. Why would I have said that? Show me.
Are you aware they often could not free their slaves? Slaves were used as collateral for debts. As I recall, Madison went bankrupt, possibly from freeing too many of his slaves, and his wife died in poverty, with her remaining slaves sold at auction to pay the debts on them.
Madison fought against the institution of slavery all of his life. Now you know why he seemed to be a ‘hypocrite.’ Everyone back then knew how things worked, so his words and actions were not considered contradictory at all.
The point is that you do not know enough about the circumstances of life in the past to be judging them in modern terms.
What we are learning is that a lot of “conservative” Republicans are too detached from what is going on to think realistically about it.
That should be modified for “conservative” Republicans into
As repugnant as the MSM and Libs are, we need to not be handing them ammunition — in the form of blasting our own best chances, where the term “best chances” equals the likes of Paul Ryan, Allen West, and the others who “caved”, but only AFTER ramming a very painful telephone pole up the butt of Libs!!!
Have your heard the Lib hysteria over on the “Dark Side”? They’re even more raving psychotic than they normally are!
That means they think we won!. We need to make them keep thinking that!
And the way to do it is to keep supporting the Ryans and the Wests as best we can.
This not a dictatorship, so we don’t get all that we wanted in the first inning.
We got a lead-off single, now it’s time to go for the extra bases, rather than shooting the players who got us this far.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t he also vote for TARP too? If so he has more issues than just this junk.
Remember this, and I am trying to be as fair as I can, some believe in the same things that conservative tea party types do and act and vote that way. BUT, there are others that are only using that energy as a means to their own ends and they aren’t only RINOs. Not all of those 2010 folks have been exactly been voting fiscally wise. All I am saying is don’t let your party affiliation blind you to the reality of what weasels some of these people are as it isn’t only dims that are that way.
Right. I am the type who would start calling you racist. You are way out of line.
My beef ISN’T with your being angry with them for “caving”. My beef IS with the nasty, vitriolic, judgmental, unfair castigation of them like they are now all of a sudden our sworn enemies. It is upsetting to me to read comments like that on a supposedly “civil” conservative blog. I repeat, it sounded just like the huffington post. I didn’t like it. And I considered taking a very long break from this blog to determine if I really wanted to be a part of something like this.
Be angry. Just don’t be like THEM!!
Great in theory, but pretty hard to put into practice.
We have to be careful not to go down the “cut off nose to spite face” route.
Would I have prefered that Christine O’Donnell win her election? Sure.
But the safe re-election RINO she booted in the primary would have been better than the DemoProg we got instead.
A RINO that gives the GOP the majority (set the agenda, committee chairs, etc.) is better than a good Conservative going down in flames in a blue district/state.
(Stand back as Phil’s head explodes)
You can b!itch all you want about how this deal is spread out over 10 years, and there aren’t any cuts until later years, etc. So what? If we elect more Conservatives and take the Senate and the White House in 2012, it can get fixed. It’s during “Phase II” that we will repeal Obamacare, and start chopping away at the chains the Dems have put on the economy. We will probably need more gains in 2014 and 2016 to really get things like the BBA, elimination of un-needed executive branch Departments, Flat/Fair tax and other issues to get America back to Constitutional, limited government.
It’s a marathon, not a sprint.
We got ourselves into this mess by sending the same flawed representatives time and again. Let’s not do that again, we know where that leads. All of those that failed the test must be replaced and that includes people that we thought were supportive of the citizens. It’s a long list that includes Party leaders, some new Tea Party reps, and those that appeared destined for greatness.
I actually know all about this subject! And different historical figures had very different views and dealt with a range of personal circumstances, as one might expect.
I just feel there’s a tendency to idealize people in the past, when actually people have been messed up and deeply flawed in every era. The human condition, you know.
I need to clarify…I am not suggesting that we stop speaking our minds! Good grief, I speak mine a LOT, as I don’t need to tell you! But my anger is directed at the evil people and the marxist/socialist/communist takeover of my country. I am not about to use that same tone on OUR OWN. We can be mad at them, we can criticize them. But re-read the posts on this thread. Disgusting.
One can only dream! (just kidding, Phil!)
I apologize I should clarify a bit more. That should not have been directed at you specifically as I was trying to talk in more general terms.
Those of us that have opposed this crap have been called anything from schitzophrenic to terrorist I figured from the so called experts its a matter of time before the racist brush gets used. I honestly don’t think some reps would be above using it.
YES! Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Extending my baseball metaphor a bit (post # 418): a team that savages its players for failing to hit a home run their first time at bat is a team destined for last place.
For the first time in decades, we’ve successfully inflicted Lib failure.
Now’s the time to keep pounding away — at THEM, not US!!!
I read the posts, or so I thought. I must have missed the “disgusting” ones? I did see frustration, disbelief,and dissatifaction. Normal reaction to being dissapointed or in some cases “stabbed in the back”. Most of the people that post on this site see where we are as a nation and fear for our country. Most know that we won’t get many more chances to change the current direction before too much damage is done and that, alone, adds to the emotions we feel.
Extending my baseball metaphor a bit (post # 418): a team that savages its players for failing to hit a home run their first time at bat is a team destined for last place.
For the first time in decades, we’ve successfully inflicted Lib failure.
Now’s the time to keep pounding away — at THEM, not US!!!
But, IMO, what a lot of us are trying to tell you is that not all of the foxes are outside the henhouse. Some of those you despise are within too, and they may be people that you think highly of but they are no more than enablers for what is going on. What is wrong with accountability?
Besides you need to understand that people that have been stabbed in the back aren’t exactly going to be spewing niceties because a person can only be used just so much before you just can’t take it anymore.
Off topic…Some humor to break the tension…
In honor of the 44th President of the United States , Baskin-Robbins Ice Cream has introduced a new flavor: “Barocky Road”
Barocky Road is a blend of half vanilla, half chocolate, and surrounded by nuts and flakes. The vanilla portion of the mix is not openly advertised and usually denied as an ingredient. The nuts and flakes are all very bitter and hard to swallow.
The cost is $82.84 per scoop….so out of a hundred dollar bill you are at least promised some CHANGE..!
When purchased it will be presented to you in a large beautiful cone, but after you pay for it, the ice cream is taken away and given to the person in line behind you at no charge.
You are left with an empty wallet, holding an empty cone with no hope of getting any ice cream.
Are you stimulated?
Trade the ones that didn’t show up for practice!
That’s in entitlement spending I believe. Discretionary spending is all that was addressed in this recent bill.
As an aside:
All the Dems are waiting for is a ‘future’ Republican to be in the WH while a ‘future’ conservative Congress is actually addressing entitlements. That’s when conservatives will be branded as the bad guys and it could stick for decades more unless our message is ahead of our actions. Gotta educate the public now. Entitlements will take a hit.
I can see your point in this and was going to write something along this theme. I can also see how this “debt ceiling default disaster” thing was a total set-up to put the Republicans and especially the Tea Party in a bad light.
I can also see the conundrum. The D’s were going to do what they do. Lie. Brinkmanship. Create an issue were there isn’t one or no where near what they claimed. Either you raise the debt limit and allow O and the D’s to keep spending and potentially send the USA into total insolvency as is O & D’s goal or you get blamed for the manufactured “default”. Either way, you are going to get blamed. If you don’t raise the debt ceiling, you give O the power to pick and choose who gets paid and be blamed for it. Would he intentionally default? Maybe, can you take the chance? O is the embodiment of treason.
All that said, the Tea Party freshman are not above being called to task. Those who voted “Yes” must give a detailed reason why. Lame reasons should put them on the chopping block.
But most of my venom lies w/ the RINOs who attacked the Tea Party and the Republican leadership for piss poor performance. They had the leverage and wasted it.
Excellent!
P.S. Looks like our posting problem is back. Ugh! What the heck is going on?
You have your opinion of the posts, I have mine. It was how I felt in reading them. Sorry, but I was very depressed by the meanness of them. I can only go by how they made me feel. I felt like we had channeled the regressives in their tone and anger. As I said…my opinion. That is all any of us have here, an opinion. I just felt very sad and down after reading the posts. Usually you guys give me a “lift” here. That is what keeps me coming back.
In what tangible way? I keep seeing this talking point. You show me what tangible, locked in concrete, verifiable gain that we made in this bill.
Show me how Obama was denied any of his three strategic objectives.
Show me how the Bush tax cuts will not be eliminated in January 2013.
Show me where Mark Levin’s and Rush Limbaugh’s analysis of this bill’s impact is flawed.
Show me where Jim Demint’s analysis of this bill’s impact is flawed.
Show me that Rush Limbaugh’s premise that the only way Obama has a chance to win in 2012 is for the GOP to cave on the debt bill is a false premise.
On August 2nd, 2011 at 11:03 am, Pasadena Phil said:
On August 2nd, 2011 at 11:14 am, happyscrapper said:
I think I remember that day. It was the same day you said that Bill Buckley was a liberal sissy and you said you did not like puppies and kittens.
On August 2nd, 2011 at 11:19 am, happyscrapper said:
I believe I understand how you feel. Seems like there is more crap and less substance lately.
Concur!
This is where Conservative Talk Radio and FoxNews are so important. I don’t think there would be a TEA Party were it not for Rush, Laura, Mark Levin, Savage, and others. But, they are not enough. They largely preach to the choir. This is why I thought Glenn Beck should have stayed at CNN. I’m sure there are a lot of swayable Independents who don’t hear the message. But, even the MSM have a hard time ignoring Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio, so there’s (real) hope.
So is a team that gets a hanging curve ball and instead of drilling a line drive into the gap, wiffs on the pitch.
Thanks, Hannibal! And I noticed that Phil hasn’t shown me where I said I wanted Brown to be POTUS. Doesn’t sound like me at all and I hate having words put into my mouth that make me look dumb. COULD I have said something like that in a moment of excitement for him winning the Senate seat? Maybe. But then, I also contributed to his Senate campaign..and I want my money back! I’m just not the type to jump the gun and automatically want someone to be POTUS without proving themself first. A lot of people out there did say that. I don’t believe I was one of them.
It of course depends on how the word “tangible” is regarded.
I agree with all of the particulars you spelled out: this “deal” is nowhere near adequate. But that does not mean it is total meaningless failure.
This (wretched) deal has had a tangible impact on Lib morale, which is an important aspect of defeating them.
They now realize that their Sex Toy Obama is no longer the Impermeable Wizard they once believed. He is now proven to be weak — as seen by them!
That at least provides leverage for conservatives in the future: we’ve inflicted upon them the knowledge that they can be defeated, and that’s an important fact.
Incorrect. Obama in the White House, and Reid in the Senate, do not constitute a “hanging curveball”.
If you do not think this was a hanging curveball then……………
We had an opportunity for a Battle of Midway victory. We could have crushed their entire agenda in one massive strategic strike. We had them right where we wanted them and we chickened out.
In terms of “lib morale” when they see what Obama accomplished here, they will be beyond energized, assuming they have half a brain. Obama won decisively and he won strategically.
Again, no one is showing me the tangible beifits of this deal. You are all dancing around the subject, because there are no tangible benefits. Even Lindsey Graham can’t vote for it.
***
HI FLYOVERMAN–#446–et. al. I agree that the “Teaparty” (aka real conservatives) and the American Taxpayers didn’t win anything here. The national “budget” (aka deficit) is scheduled to increase.
***
Comrade Obama gets his increased spending authority, and the committee of 12 (socialists, statists, marxists, communists, and RINOS) are ready to sell us out again.
***
But I disagree that any of this will help the Good Comrade and His Ilk in the Nov. 2012 election. He / they always make the worst possible economic choices possible–as Cuba, Venezuela, the old U.S.S.R., etc. do / did.
***
The worsening economic problems of continuing 20 percent real unemployment rate, higher taxes, higher costs for medical insurance, food, gasoline, heating oil, etc. will doom The Messiah and His Ilk then.
***
It’s great when the enemy keeps shooting themselves in the foot–on full auto mode yet! They will be crawling away on stumps soon–as they look for more loaded magazines. TSUNAMI II coming their way.
***
John Bibb
***
I definitely think it’s a win for Obama. And people around here who think he’s not intelligent should think again…you may disagree on every single thing about him, but he’s very sharp and strategic. He couldn’t have been elected POTUS in the first place with his limited record without a lot of savvy (and charisma helped too.)
I’m more concerned about the country and the future than about who won and who lost though, honestly. Everyone here and all of my liberal friends have a lot of conviction about what should have been done, but I find it a pretty complex issue…
Sorry I hate to be Mr. Negative here but I have to throw out the question that everyone totally ignores.
What happens if the racist thug in the WH gets re-elected, and the repubs either dont get both chambers of congress or if they do they get the senate by a 51-49 or something like that? What happens then?
Everybody seems to just automatically assume that there will be a Repub congress and in the WH. There’s no accounting for the stupidity of the average voter, nor for the thug machine of Barry (double voting, intimidation tactics), nor the lapdog press who is spinning this as Pelosi making a brave stand and Barry as a hero.
I think the above is a very realistic concern
Stacy…Really, do you actually think that Obama is the stratagist here? Wow, you really have been fooled. He is a PUPPET. Someone is pulling his strings. He doesn’t make a move without his puppetmaster. Why do you think he has to have a teleprompter telling him what to say at all times, even when talking to grade schoolers?
Wake up, my friend. This man is not that smart.
We would be done as a nation. Period. Another 4 years of regressive “rule” would finish us. We would be a socialist country.
@happy: Who do you think is telling Obama what to do, then?
Fly,
You pose a thought ending in an open-ended elipsis (ie, “….”), and then assert others are “dancing around the subject” (??).
All Tea Partiers know this deal is (as the headlines have been saying) “Spit in the Ocean”; however, until we can eradicate Libs (of both parties), there’s only so much that can be done.
2012 must be a profound, epic battle, and we must win.
And we’ll need every Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, and Allen West we can muster in order to do so.
George Soros, MSNBC, Acorn, Center for American Progress, MoveOn, SEIU, etc.
The list of leftwing entitlement-obsessed nutjobs is nearly endless, and Oblunder dares not take any of them on — unless the Tea Party forces his hand!
Aye, that’s the lifeblood of the DemLibs.
What else can we do, other than continue to fight-by-educating?
This is what worries me. And I think now you know why I have been so adamantly against this “deal” and those that voted for it.
Like I said a couple of days ago I am hoping for the best but after this ordeal and what is likely coming I am expecting the worst.
Okay, here is my point. If Boehner, Ryan, Cantor, McConnel, et. all were serious about “winning” here is what they could/SHOULD have done IMO.
Option 1: Pass Cut, Cap, and Balance, send it to th Senate and shut up. There are 23 Dem Senators up for re-election in 2012. You get 3 of them it passes the Senate.
If it fails in the Senate or Obama vetos it, you look him in the eye and say, “Fine, that was our plan. Give us your plan.” The just sit there. Their monkey.
Option 2: You tell Obama, “If you want a $2.3 trillion debt increase you can have it for a $2.3 trillion cut in spending. The OMB said Obamacare would cost $2.3 trillion over 10 years. You sign the legislation repealing Obamacare which 60% of the population wants and you get your debt increase. Even trade.
THOSE ARE STRATEGIC STRIKES.
But they chose to wimp, because they were so scared of what people might think of them. Pick any option that has 60% public approval and beat them about the head and shoulders with it. Attack for once in your sorry political lives.
You beat me to it, Gorebot. I might add that Obama has dozens of “strategists” to take care of him and make sure he toes the line. David Plouff, Rahm Emanuel, many people who tell him what to say, what to do, etc. It is a fact. Obama gets into trouble every time he goes off his TOTUS.
I’d really like to see the House start passing bills to defund some of the ridiculous programs out there that are indefensible.
How do you eat a whale?
It is NOT Democrat versus Republican. It is Ruling Class Politicians versus Citizens. The very way that “crossover” votes in both houses were managed to give themselves more of our money and more control over the sweating masses is evidence of that. As long as we citizens cheer our faux teams on, curse the bogus villans, and sit through the performance on our hands, the more entrenched “they” become.
I see the teleprompter and strategy as 2 very different things, but that could just be me. I have no problem with the teleprompter. I would use one if I were POTUS to try to eliminate slip-ups (not that it always works that way) because in that position I would want to get everything as clear as possible.
Every POTUS has strategists, but I think that’s different than saying the POTUS does whatever his people tell him to do…that can be a little hard to judge. Many people felt Bush was Cheney’s puppet, for instance, but if there was hard evidence, I didn’t know about it?
I would LOVE to see some evidence that your beloved POTUS is “smart”. He refuses to give us any evidence of that. He is a good “orator” or “teleprompter reader”, but smart? Who could know? Whenever he is caught off-prompter, he stumbles over his words, uses uh, uh, uh a LOT and generally says something “stupid”. How did he do in school? Who knows? He isn’t telling. I have NO IDEA how smart he is, and neither do you. You just want to believe he is. I would tend to agree with you except for one thing…that would make us BOTH wrong!
I think you nailed the “incumbency” problem dead on thejim. Completely agree.
I’m trying to imagine all of these big numbers and negotiations in a more personal context.
Let’s say I am $150,000 in credit card debt. I make about $22,000 per year, but this year I spent about $38,000, putting the difference on the cards. I do this every year, that’s why I am so deep in debt.
The credit card companies are starting to express concern (What took them so long? I think they noticed when I started charging my interest payments to my credit cards.)
So my wife and I hash out a plan to spend less over my projected annual spending sprees over the next ten years to the tune of, if all goes well, $24,000.
Note that this year I spent $16,000 more than I brought in. My debt isn’t getting any smaller, in fact it is rising. We had projected a debt of about $230,000 by 2020, but I should be bringing in a whopping $38,000 per year at that time. The even better news is that with this brilliant spending cutting plan my debt will now only be $206,000. By cutting spending now, my debt increase by $56,000 over ten years instead of $80,000. My fiscal brilliance should be blinding you about now.
To be sure, my tennis coach, pilates instructor, tailor, chauffeur, security guards, et al, are concerned about these draconian cuts affecting them, but I have told them all to relax.
Hey, in two years, once the pressure is off and we can talk in private, I plan on revising this. Who knows what the future will bring? I do know that I will be spending like there is no tomorrow (because, you know, in the long run, we’re all dead!)
Wait Happy. You never underestimate your enemy or in civil discourse your opposition. Obama got elected. Obama got obamacare through. Obama got away with saying clinging to their Bible and toting their guns. Obama got away with saying “typical white people”.
He might not be the smartest person in the room,even the bathroom alone, but he has moved his regressive believes into law.
Do you really think that they are going to catch him or Holder in the Fast and Furious thang?
Being sly and devious takes being smart. Not good but it takes intelligence.
Those that created Obambi knew their opponents, had a plan, and have executed well.
Well, maybe next election y’all can create someone to defeat him.