Fast and Furious update: More guns, more stonewall
In case you missed it — and believe me, the Department of Injustice is hoping you missed it on this 9/11 memorial weekend — yet another violent crime (perpetrated by a suspected illegal alien )has been linked to Obama Fast and Furious guns.
Remember: GOP investigators have been demanding full disclosure from the DOJ on crimes linked to F&F for months and months. There should be no doubt corruptocrat Eric Holder, master of the Friday document dump, is still in total stonewall mode.
Via the LA Times:
In the second violent crime in this country connected with the ATF’s failed Fast and Furious program, two Arizona undercover police officers were allegedly assaulted last year when they attempted to stop two men in a stolen vehicle with two of the program’s weapons in a confrontation south of Phoenix.
The officers, members of an elite Arizona Department of Public Safety law enforcement unit, said the driver rammed their cars and threatened them with the firearms, and then fled into the Arizona desert. The driver was caught and arrested, and two firearms –- a Beretta pistol and AK-47 semiautomatic assault rifle — were found in the stolen Ford truck, the police said.
…The encounter came five months after the Fast and Furious program began, in which ATF agents allowed the illegal purchase of weapons to try to track the firearms to Mexican drug cartels. And it occurred nine months before the fatal slaying in December of U.S. Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, killed in a separate assault in which two Fast and Furious firearms were discovered at the scene south of Tucson.
Sources said this is the first case so far of Fast and Furious weapons found at the scene of another violent crime other than Terry’s. Officials at ATF headquarters and the Justice Department are sifting through records to see whether there are more. About 2,000 weapons were allowed to be illegally purchased in the Phoenix area, and the vast majority were lost track of by ATF agents.
“There is bound to be a lot of them,” said one source close to case.
Are there enough Fridays in the year to help bury them all?
CBS News reporter Sharyl Atkisson reminds us of the obstruction games at DOJ:
News of this case set off a wave of confusion among Congressional investigators who have tried unsuccessfully to identify additional violent crimes in the U.S. linked to which Fast and Furious. They say the Justice Department still hasn’t told them about the 2010 Phoenix case, despite their ongoing written requests for such information.
In July, the Justice Department acknowledged Terry’s death wasn’t the only U.S. violent crime involving Fast and Furious weapons – it originally said there were 11 more — but refused to provide Congress any details. Then, more than a month later on September 1, the Justice Department revised the number of cases downward from 11 to just two. Congressional investigators have doggedly pursued the Justice Department for information on the second mysterious case, but never received the information. Today, it’s still unknown whether the new case is indeed the second case the Justice Department had referred to.
One Congressional investigator told CBS News: “We’re no closer to finding out what the Justice Department knows about all the crimes committed” with Fast and Furious guns.
Meanwhile, Fox News reporter William Lajeunesse has a scoop on a third F&F weapon — previously undisclosed — that was found at the scene of Border Patrol hero Brian Terry’s murder:
A third gun linked to “Operation Fast and Furious” was found at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry, new documents obtained exclusively by Fox News suggest, contradicting earlier assertions by federal agencies that police found only two weapons tied to the federal government’s now infamous gun interdiction scandal.
Sources say emails support their contention that the FBI concealed evidence to protect a confidential informant. Sources close to the Terry case say the FBI informant works inside a major Mexican cartel and provided the money to obtain the weapons used to kill Terry.
Unlike the two AK-style assault weapons found at the scene, the third weapon could more easily be linked to the informant. To prevent that from happening, sources say, the third gun “disappeared.”
In addition to the emails obtained by Fox News, an audio recording from a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent investigating the Terry case seems to confirm the existence of a third weapon. In that conversation, the agent refers to an “SKS assault rifle out of Texas” found at the Terry murder scene south of Tucson.
The FBI refused to answer a detailed set of questions submitted to officials by Fox News. Instead, agency spokesman Paul Bresson said, “The Brian Terry investigation is still ongoing so I cannot comment.” Bresson referred Fox News to court records that only identify the two possible murder weapons.
Your tax dollars at work:
The two AK-type assault rifles were purchased by Jaime Avila from the Lone Wolf Trading Co. outside of Phoenix on Jan. 16, 2010. Avila was recruited by his roommate Uriel Patino. Patino, according to sources, received $70,000 in “seed money” from the FBI informant late in 2009 to buy guns for the cartel.
The Lone Wolf gun shop owner who expressed prescient concerns about F&F speaks for the first time to the LA Times:
[Andre] Howard said he does not own a gun, does not hunt, and does not belong to the National Rifle Assn. His love is helicopters — a former Army pilot, he gives flying lessons. He said he fell into the gun-dealing business 21 years ago only to help support his career as a flight instructor. Howard spoke to a reporter for the first time in depth about why he cooperated with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
He said he supported law enforcement, and never imagined a thousand weapons, or half of the entire Fast and Furious inventory, would “walk” out of his store. And when arrests were not forthcoming, “every passing week I was more stunned,” he said.
According to a confidential memo written by assistant federal prosecutor Emory Hurley, “Mr. Howard had expressed concerns about the cooperation he was providing and whether he was endangering himself or implicating himself in a criminal investigation.”
Other firearms dealers shared his concerns. At the nearby Scottsdale Gun Club, the proprietor sent an email to Agent David Voth. “I want to help ATF,” he said, “but not at the risk of agents’ safety because I have some very close friends that are U.S. Border Patrol agents in southern AZ.”
Bob Owens sums things up:
The SKS “disappeared” by the FBI from the scene of Agent Terry’s murder most likely came from Dallas, but could have come from what appears to be a second Texas-based gunwalking operation, suggested by considerable circumstantial evidence to be centered in the Houston Field Operations area.
The fact that every U.S. agent gunned down in the line of duty was fired upon with weapons recovered from apparent gunwalking operations in the Dallas and/or Houston Field Operations areas — not to mention the revelation of an domestic gunwalking operation in Indiana dubbed “Gangwalker,” and now “Grenadewalker” — suggests a widespread program to arm violent felons.
If this supposition is correct — and new evidence emerging every few days suggests that is the case — then we are plagued by an executive branch gone mad, and there is every reason to believe that such madness either originated from the White House or was done with the full knowledge of the White House, as Mike Vanderboegh suggests:
“This information confirms what our sources were saying all along — that the FBI was covering up the true circumstances of the murder of Brian Terry,” added Mike Vanderboegh, an authority on the Fast and Furious investigation who runs a whistleblower website called Sipsey Street.
“It also confirms that the FBI was at least as culpable, and perhaps more culpable, than the ATF in the (Fast and Furious) scandal, and that there was some guiding hand above both these agencies (and the other agencies involved) coordinating the larger operation,” Vanderboegh said.
Robert Mueller of the FBI and Ken Melson of the ATF obviously knew of these gunwalking operations. Michele Leonhart of the DEA likely knew. Eric Holder had to know.
Janet Napolitano, whose former Chief of Staff Dennis Burke ran Operation Fast and Furious and who was the governor of Arizona and its attorney general before then, had to know.
Rep. Darrell Issa and Senator Charles Grassley smell corruption, and have expanded the Gunwalker investigation to request the records of Greg Gatjanis, Kevin O’Reilly, and Dan Restrepo, all from the president’s National Security Council.
Three White House officials know something about the operation, and yet we are expected to believe Eric Holder and Barack Obama when they deny knowledge of it?
When you promote it, you get more of it.
***
David Codrea has posted Part Six of his journalist’s guide to Project Gunwalker here.
Suddenly the ATF is admitting that this last episode in Arizona did involve F&F weapons. Why would they suddenly be open about that piece of information? Perhaps Rep. Issa and Sen. Grassley are getting perilously close to opening Pandora’s box and the ATF wants to be on the right side of the fence when the whole story breaks? Maybe an official in the ATF will be offered immunity if they fork over info implicating high ranking officials within the Justice Department? Would the ATF do that if they are a branch of the DOJ?
Can someone answer these questions for me……
Isn’t it obstruction of justice to withhold information about a crime?
Wouldn’t you or I go to jail if we withheld information from investigators?
Why isn’t Eric Holder in jail?
Mike Vanderboegh: The Gunwalker Man’s run, run, running as fast as he can.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
 |
Katie Pavlich exposes “Fast and Furious: Barack Obama’s Bloodiest Scandal and the Shameless Cover-Up”
April 16, 2012 10:09 AM by Michelle Malkin
133 Comments
Fast and Furious follow-up: Issa, Grassley press Holder on ICE officer Jaime Zapata’s murder
February 27, 2012 04:09 PM by Michelle Malkin
56 Comments
Fast and Furious showdown: Holder/Obama defend bloody culture of contempt; Update: Fortress Holder, Stonewall City; vid clips added, Dems advise, “Don’t answer”
February 2, 2012 09:16 AM by Michelle Malkin
158 CommentsAttention: Obama’s coming to Arizona, Ground Zero of his Fast and Furious debacle
January 23, 2012 02:08 PM by Michelle Malkin
58 Comments
The Year in Obama Scandals — and Scandal Deniers
December 28, 2011 12:04 PM by Michelle Malkin
122 Comments
The Brian Terry Memorial Act passes
December 15, 2011 06:08 PM by Michelle Malkin
21 CommentsThe murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry: One year ago today
December 14, 2011 11:11 AM by Michelle Malkin
70 Comments
Holder, Blago, Richardson: Triangle of Sleaze
December 9, 2011 09:05 AM by Michelle Malkin
125 Comments
Categories: Guns
JustOneMinute
» Patterico And The Brett Kimberlin GangBabalu Blog
» U.S. Manned Space Flight in The 21st CenturyVillainous Company
» Must Read Post of the Day. Possibly, the Year
If this had been on a Republicans watch the MSM would have cancelled all of yesterdays tributes and had programs with every rant and pundit they could find.
Eric Holder has probably been the worst US AG in US history. Whenever a fork in the progression of justice presents itself, he manages to take the wrong turn – every single time. 2012 will hopefully offer another president the chance to replace him with someone that is going to act in the nation’s best interest.
I’ll give you 3 guesses… and the first 2 don’t count.
Remind me again, how many people died as a result of the Watergate Break-in?
If America had a fair and impartial Press, the Obama administration would be collapsing like a cheap lawn chair.
Gads this thing just keeps getting worse and worse. bho, holder, dear sis and all involved need to get before Issa and Grassley and answer questions under oath!
Thanks you so much for keeping us informed on this. Fox is doing a great job keeping this before the public aslo. They are about the only media that is.
L
we may need to have all the terrorists leave gitmo, to make room for all the obama administration officials who we need to house there.
Because Michelle et al are all over this, and you can bet the farm this thing is way deeper and goes way higher than is yet known.
You think the ATFer’s who weren’t already bought off with corner offices will sit there and take the fire for Holder & Co?
Pffft. Right.
How many children do you think these guns Murdered in Mexico?
Do you think Obama and Holder care?
Holders job is to protect the usurper in the White House. While it is true the job could be done by someone else, Holder has the goods on more members of Congress and others, making the job easier and more thorough for him.
The Fast and Furious will become the Slow and Placid and then disappear without a whimper.
Had this been a Republican admin doing all Barky’s admin has been and is continuing to do, special counsel would have been in place by early last year calling witnesses and preparing the path for pressuring Congress to act on impeachment with MSM coverage 24/7.
The Confederacy had its dutiful Stonewall Jackson. This admin has its dutiful Stonewall Holder.
Both performing the tasks assigned to them by their superiors. One historically much better than the other.
Here is something else that is a huge problem for bho and team? With all the crooked things bho and team are involved in you would think something would take them down?
http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/bobbeauprez/2011/09/11/obamas_pet_billionaire_at_solyndra_make_take_white_house_down
L
No, they don’t. They are acceptable collateral damage. Their deaths useful for propaganda and their lives expendable for advancing the leftist agenda.
It’ll be more difficult with an accomplice media and other organizations providing public cover.
Too many on the left accept the corruption as an acceptable byproduct to acheive its goals. Not to mention many getting richer from their share of the graft coming from this admin.
Why would Holder have even the least concern about anything this corrupt administration does? Every single person in the administration is a known criminal to some degree, the president is a total fraud from eligibility to SS#, and yet, not one official, appointed or elected, is willing to stand up and expose them. So, What’s Eric have to worry about?
I am not sure but – didn’t the Sock Puppet sign an excutive order concerning Gun Stores in border states and implimenting more restrictions even though the Gun Runner scam was really heating up? And isn’t the Gun Runner scam the very reason PIAPS and the Sock puppet were crying about American Guns going over the Border to Mexico?
Is this too big to sweep under the rug?
#14 Yes and yes.
I don’t know why the link didn’t post correctly. Here it is in primitive form:
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obama-executive-orders-impose-new-gun-rules/
They don’t care. Proof: either of them do not care about the 50 million children killed in abortion clinics since 1973.
I am fairly certain, no one was arrested at the scene of this crime, nor was there any kind of gun battle. It was at a cartel roadblock.
These weapons were just left there which tells you what? The cartels have so many weapons that they can just leave weapons there so they are never linked to multiple killings.
You have the luxury of doing this when you have LOTS of weapons.
The lots of weapons, were reported, coming from China.
The LSM will do its best to make sure it doesn’t get that big.
Yes, they definitely care!! These kids are future voters, after all!
Still waiting for the revelation of the “Low-yieldthermonucleardevicewalker” program to become public.
Yeah, but that’s thinking to far into the future and the kids’ future vote is not guaranteed to be Dem….therefore turning illegals and third world hordes of legal immigrants and refugees into instant citizens in return for them being a loyal voting bloc is a better short term risk in the Left’s bid for perpetual political power.
This needs to be brought up at one of the presidential debates;
“As president, will you pledge to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, everyone involed with operation Fast and Furious no matter how high up it goes?”
That Solyndra issue should be absolutely EXPLODING on the news! This is truly huge. Proof positive of massive corruption up to the highest level of this government. When the hell are they going to get taken down??? If this doesn’t do it, NOTHING will!
No surprise there. A few years back, was there not an interception of a container full of automatic weapons orginating from China on the way to being distributed to US gangs on the West Coast?
This is all part of the communist plan to destabalize America. Be assured, their plan is to make sure that no community in America is safe from gangbanging thugs, illegals, petty criminals, and flash mobs. You will be disarmed and unable to defend yourself against well equiped and violent criminals. These are merely the mininons of the corrupt Statists, doing their dirty work for them. This is BY DESIGN, and all you good people are too good to realize just how evil (not incompetent) this governemnt is.
You all better wake up, this is not a game. Obama and Holder are stone hearted communists, and they are not playing games. BE PREPARED for anything and don’t expect the New World Order approved Republican presidential candidates to utter a peep about any of it.
Unless it’s Perry attmepting to surf the current wave of public discontent. Don’t be a crybaby when you all find out he’s just another Bush. Gee, can’t see that one comin’ from like 5 years out.
What would law enforcement do to you or me if we illegally sold illegal weapons to illegals that were then used in First Degree murder Capital offenses against lawful American citizens and worse, law enforcement itself?
So, how come the DOJ and ATF are different?
BINGO!!!
i don’t think trump’s rug is big enough!
This is likely part of the domestic & foreign enemies’ anti-American strategy: “Pressure from above and pressure from below”, to destroy the American middle class.
Just finished a 1971 book, “None Dare Call It Conspiracy”, that someone on MM’s blog had mentioned amonth or so ago.
Not the best written book, but not bad…and extremely intriguing.
Written 40 years ago, yet frighteningly, almost incredibly pertinent to what is happening today, and to what is discussed regularly at this blog.
“Pressure from above and pressure from below” – threats & attacks from the rich, powerful elite (“above”), and from their minions, the thugs and dregs (sorry, but true) (“below”) – is from that book; which in turn referenced it from a discussion of the Communist takeover of Czechoslovakia.
I never thought that I would recommend such a book; but I am now.
Tone: We are awake. Read comments by Hawkeye54 and others. Read MM, but she won’t say communist.
Jail the entire O administration.
Too bad you can’t just indict the Attorney General and we could get this over with.
The enemies of the USA, both foreign and domestic, have concluded for some time that the USA was to powerful to defeat militarilyfrom outside its boundaries, so conspired to bring it down from within, getting its people into postisions of authority in education, law, government, media and entertainment to change the culture of the USA from within. Their concept being to weakening it in hopes to make it easier for a near bloodless takeover before the majority of the public realizes, or even cares about, what has happened.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Operation Fast & Furious is nothing more than a runaround attack on the Second Amendment. What they couldn’t get trough the courts and Congress, they’ll try to get trough the burocracy, or the administrative state, like Mark Levin says. An armed and informed citizenry is a threat to this bunch. Information and access to weapons must be restricted or better yet, prohibited. F & F is just the latest example of this policy. If this makes me a conspiracy nut, so be it. Is anybody willing to bet their life and liberty(and the country’s) on me being wrong?
Ignore my warnings at your own peril. You know that old saying about keep your friends close and your enemies closer? Well lets just say I know these Communist Revolutionaries real well.
There is no collateral damage that is unnacceptable to them. They will make this country submit at any cost. They are not good people like most of you, they are tyrants, scondrels, and traitors. I can tell you that there are some very hard, very confusing times ahead.
Don’t get confused though, one thing is for certain, this is the enemy, know your enemy… Don’t be a fool and think they are merely incompetent. Channel all of your will towards defeating them politically in the arena of ideas. Their ideas are their weakness, because they are based solely on emotion.
Resist violence at all costs, demolish their house of cards with reason and logic. Don’t let emotional appeal control the debate anymore or they will always win.
Why yes, I believe them. Why shouldn’t I? Have they lied, hidden facts, obfuscated, delayed, sent out false information, misdirected, redacted incriminating documents, or perjured themselves yet?
RIGHT! The people at the top of the food chain involved in this are as corrupt as they come, and are sullying the reputations of many federal service patriots. Their application of the priciples of Anus Protectus , is an effort to save their own skins, and to protect their benefactors!
Tone, for the record:
a) welcome to the party, and;
b) you’re preaching to the choir
Today is the 10th Anniversity of making my first purchase of “elements” necessary to defend my family to a greater degree. Midway USA shooting supply loves me…a lot!
Which is why I always make the distinction here. We MUST identify the internal enemy and illuminate the historical tactics they are employing to crush the middle class in this country and usher in a neo feudal collectivist state. The useless Republicans just want their piece of the Big Government pie and will never spell it out for you. Like the book Granite mentions, pressure from the top and the bottom. This is part of the pressure from the bottom strategy.
Representative Issa – maybe it’s time to stop requesting records and start sending in agents to sieze them! MSM – maybe it’s time you send your reporters to check out another average singer in a meat-suit… you are absolutely worthless!
hawkeye54 #37:
Your post indicates one of the many reasons why I moved out of FL. Here I have clean water, game, fish and easily arable fertile land. I will not go without a fight. Being self-sufficient is very important to me. Next on the agenda: TRY TO WAKE UP AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE. This bunch is hell bent on bringing the country down. God help us if Obamao gets another 4 years. The idiot Republicans in the Senate have no stomach, spine, or balls for a fight. They’ll let this SOB run wild.
I think the Founding Fathers missed something when they gave so much power to just a few people. If the POTUS is corrupt, and surrounds himself with corrupt cronies, who do you have left to take them down? Of course, the Founding Fathers probably expected the American People to have a few brains. They probably trusted future generations to love freedom and liberty so much that they would die rather than allow it to be destroyed. I believe they gave us way too much credit. Half the country is made up of morons. Fortunately, the other half is made up of the Tea Party and the military.
So far, more than try – they DO get quite a bit of their agenda accomplished through the bureaucracy of federal agencies.
And all we get is vocal outcry, not even rage, from GOP leadership, notetakeing, polite requests and words from Issa’s ongoing investigations, and unfavoravble court orders and outcomes that are ignored. Virtually no meaningful action.
Pretty soon the admin will decide just to forego the need for the 2012 presidential elections altogether and Barky’ll sign an EO to abolish CONgress as a cost saving measure and to eliminate an annoying worthless impedement to his handlers plans for us.
+1000
We are so screwed.
I discussed some of Obama’s treasoious issues with my US Rep.
His response: All we can do is vote him out.
BS, He has to be taken out in handcuffs.
tone and right_on:
Good to see we’re on the same wavelenght.
Right_on#41:
Wife doesn’t likes guns, but I insist. Going to check out gun range that offers classes for ladies. Checking out local stores, and getting together with local hunters. No matter what, we must be prepared! This communist administration WILL DESTROY US IF GIVEN HALF A CHANCE!!!
Or, as DC political elitists, many Republicans are silent allies of the Dems, being big government socialists themselves…..just playing a role for public consumption to give the appearance of partisan opposition.
Sorry Michelle, but I want to puke every time I see the cover of your book.
I believe that missing weapon is being used by Uncle Omar to guard a pile of ebony…
An alternative theory about the thinking behind F&F is that the government was taking sides against the Zetas. It wouldn’t surprise me if he was right.
When you are actively involved in the war against America, yet wear no uniform, I think gitmo is where you go…
Every American should be livid.
hawkeye54 #46:
This is precisely why Obama MUST be defeated in 2012. Without pressure of reelection, he’ll run wild, Congress and the Supreme Court be damned. And they’ll be enough Dems in Congress to stop impeachment procedures. Mark my words.
Someone remind me – Ollie North was attacked by the left because, because… oh yeah, he had a hot secretary.
hawkeye54 #49:
Call me crazy, but you may be right.
THEY ARE ELITES, THEREFORE THEY’RE BETTER THAN US, THE GREAT UNWASHED,’FLYOVER COUNTRY’ MORONS.
That’s another reason to elect Tea Party, constitutional candidates. Kick the SOBs out! No more McCains, Hatches, go-along-to-get-along RINOs!!!
You’re exactly right. Pravda (the MSM) used to have stories all the time about the violence in Mexico and how it was “easily obtainable” weapons purchased legally in the United States that was the problem. Their next step would have been an attempt to limit gun sales (by Executive order if necessary) in the obvious states where people still care about their 2nd Amendment rights.
AlohaGuy:
This people don’t care about Mexico or dead Mexicans. They’re means to an end: to disarm America, by any means necessary. Then, and only then, can they impose their twisted vission of a ‘workers paradise’ on this country, whether we like it or not.
Barring their ability to do that, they will go after US ammunition makers, and hinder the ability of the gun owning public to purchase it.
For the Left, the outcome would be the same. A public with weapons but no ammunition to use them effectively.
Issa and Grassley investigation procedure:
1. Request records from Barry’s regime.
2. Records not received.
3. Demand records from Barry’s regime.
4. Regime effectively says, “screw you”.
5 Investigation concludes.
Are you talking to me?
Flyoverman:
I was talking about what this elites think of you, me and everybody else who lives between L.A. and the Norheast Corridor.
SO, YES, I WAS TALKING TO YOU.
Questions to be asked publicly, then scrutinized like it was Watergate: To holder, Napalitano, to Obama: WHAT do you know about Fast and Furious and most importantly, WHEN DID YOU KNOW IT?!?!?!?!
I smell a RAT! More likely, an entire nest of them and they’re running the show! Once again, I believe this administration, under the guise of incompetence, has set the stage to impose limits on access and ownership of firearms. It’s all part of Twon’s et al scheme to fundamentally transform this country into that shining bolshevik city on the hill. First comes public outrage against the needless deaths and injuries committed by criminals, gangs, and drug cartels using firearms so readily available in this country. Next comes the demand for tighter regulation and restrictions on the availability and ownership of firearms, and then finally, in classic Feinstein/Brady style, legislation that accomplishes just that, all wrapped around a cry of “why can’t we be more like Britain and not allow firearms ownership at all”. Fortunately for we U.S. citizens, firearms ownership is a constitutionally guaranteed right, but then again, Tone never let that hinder him in accomplishing his vision of a new Amerika! Now we see that their little scheme has seriously backfired on them, and they have literally shot themselves in they’re own feet! Now is the time to appoint a special prosecutor, impeach both Holder and Obama, and have them tossed out on their behinds! One last thought comes to mind regarding this latest circus act: FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!
There are many valid reasons for Obama to go but one certainly is so Holder and his entire DOJ mob can be prosecuted.
Oh man, I am so sorry I wasted time showering and shaving this morning.
Thanks for letting me know though for tomorrow and the remainder of the week.
Well, an unarmed public is a compliant public, or at least, a more easily coerced compliant public.
Wouldn’t at all suprise me if nationwide civil violent unrest and rioting is sparked next summer as justification for suspending national elections and federal martial law to be invoked along with executive orders to seize private firearms in the name of national security.
Flyoverman #68:
Welcome to the club, man! LOL
Got my pocket bible in the same rucksack cargo pouch where I keep the cleaning kit for my M4.
It’s all good.
***
HI HAWKEYE54–#69. Even in the darkest days of the Civil War President Abraham Lincoln never suspended the 1864 election. Even though he was expected to lose it to the disloyal democrat “copperhead” faction who wanted to quit and let the slavery loving South successfully set up their Confederate States of America.
***
Only Union victories under General Grant and Generals Sherman and Sheridan saved Lincoln and the republicans in the election. Lincoln respected our Constitution.
***
If Comrade Obama and His Regime cancel the Nov. 2012 election it will be American Civil War II or American Revolutionary War II in the streets of America. The “line in the sand” will have been crossed. Patriots will defend our Constitution against any usurpers.
***
John Bibb
***
They will??….When??
Why not now?
Sadl Obama isn’t even close to anything like Lincoln. Comrade Obama and his regime may certainly consider the option of creating an environment leading to the cancelation, or at least indefinite postponement of our election.
Of course, unlike Lincoln, we all know Barky and those in his regime have absolutely no respect, but do have contempt for our Constitution and likely have no qualms about setting off a 2nd revolution or civil war if that is what has to be for their agenda. I’m sure they’d have contingency plans to deal with such a crisis.
They also have a plan so Obama won’t be connected to Fast and Furious.
They knew that F & F would be discovered. A middle management type will go down but not Obama, and not Holder.
Welcome to the Chicago way of doing business, only this was supposed to remain a secret. The longer the bho administration tried to suppress, control and spin all of this, the more it will take them all down. This isn’t the only scandal going on either. bho and company thought that all the exits were blocked and the public controlled, but wait for the surprise yet to come. A major blow out is on schedule for next year.
Did it occur to people that Fast and Furious (sending weapons south) was done not for the reason’s stated, but to hype the stats of “US weapons” being found at the scene of cartel murders and such.
The left will use those numbers to say; “See, see, we told you ownership of weapons in the US is out of control, see all those bad weapons heading south into mexico and being used by the cartels to do all sorts of bad things. . .see. . . we must do something to stop the easy sales and illegal flow of weapons, we need to crack down (limit or ban) legal sales of legal weapons so we can stop this tragedy of US weapons going in to mexico. . . ”
Trouble is, sales of those illicit weapons, abetted by Holder and his people, are now headed North into the US and killing US citizens. . .something those geniuses in DC never thought of. Or maybe they did and didn’t care.
Just something to consider. . .just another battle in The Messiah’s war against the Second Amendment.
This scandal is far more serious than Watergate ever was, so why is this thing being swept under the rug ?, I mean come on, no one Died from Watergate and we know people died from WalkingGate.
conservative hispanic:
You don’t know how many times I hear that from women; re: “I don’t like guns.” Ask them why, and they don’t know. Once out at the range, they have a ball, and ask when they can go again.
Two of my girls are cases in point. They didn’t understand why I enjoyed shooting…until I took them, and let them shoot some of my “softer” guns. Before we got out of the range parking lot, they were both begging me to buy them .45 autos.
***
HI BOB–#73. The Patriots can be found on the conservative talk radio– Rush Limbaugh and Mark Levin are examples.
***
And on the conservative web sites. Michelle Malkin is an example. And in our Conservative political candidates–Gov. Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann are examples. And on Fox News T.V.–Glenn Beck, Mark Stein are examples. As are many so called “Tea Party” groups.
***
We are a nation of laws–and will try to take down Comrade Obama and His Regime in the Nov. 2012 election. Like we took down a lot of His minions in the Nov. 2010 midterm elections.
***
At present it’s ballots–not bullets. Contribute to your favorite candidate. Try to convert fence sitters you may know. Work to help turn out the conservative vote prior to the elections. Our failing economy and rising energy costs will bring down the Good Comrade in Nov. 2012. Nothing like being without a job or gas to change a clueless voter’s action. The “new reality” sucks–and they know it.
***
John Bibb
***
Hi rocketman,
I like reading your post, but in this case it was the the word, “usurpers” that made me ask the brief questions.
“Patriots will defend our Constitution against any usurpers”
None of the people you have listed seem to have the slightest interest in the usurpation of the presidency, which involves the Constitution at it’s highest level. You have more faith in those Patriots than I do.
No one dares lay a glove on His Fraudulency.
Usurpation Day, January 20, 2009 could not have happened without all of their cooperation.
They were all complicit.
Virginia Patriot:
Enough with the nonsense. We MUST kick this bum out on Election Day 2012. If we don’t vote him out, we’ll deserve what’s coming. Stop crying over spilled milk.
Since when did openly talking about the obvious biggest fraud/charade in history become, “crying over spilled milk”?.
The entire problem is silence in the face of an obvious usurper of the presidency, while talking endlessly about stuff that is far less important.
A way to undo the damage already done by the Obama regime and to set the progressives back at least 50 years exist and all we do is discuss which RINO we hope replaces the usurper, if the election is remotely fair.
We are getting what we deserve for lacking the courage to tackle the real problem, an illegal, unconstitutional criminal usurper in the White House.
Anything else we do is ignoring the obvious…and a waste of time.
BOB:
Since Congress will not kick Obama out, and SCOTUS will not kick him out, whinning about him being in power is crying over spilled milk. Enough stupid, uninformed people voted for him. We must educate the morons so that they don’t do it again in 2012. We MUST also make sure we oppose the Usurper with a Constitutional Conservative, not a RINO, so that the choice is clear: liberty or slavery, not slavery and indented servitude.
BOB:
Unless you have a time machine, there’s NOTHING we can do about Obama being in power. Just get ready to vote him out next year. Everything else is a waste of time. So, stop crying over spilled milk.
Thanks for your advice which I will choose to ignore.
The only reason Obama cannot be kicked out of office is because too many people think like you do.
Being concerned and vocal over who is the president and commander-in-chief is hardly crying over spilled milk.
What you are saying is the equivalent of giving up America to Marxist/Communist forces who have taken over from the inside out…without a fight.
Why would anyone be willing do that??
Ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room in favor of endless talk and subject changing because the real job is “too hard” is not what I believe made America a great country.
The opportunity of a lifetime exist right now to restore America’s Constitution and set the Marxist/Communist, “progressives” back 50 years…..and that opportunity is not the next election.
BOB:
Apparently, you missed the first line of post #85. So tell, smart guy, can can we do NOW to get rid of Obama?
Because he likes the ride he’s on. And he knows Obama has his back. Why should he bother with special prosecutors that might actually charge HIM when he can simply ignore it an know that there are enough blockers to keep the heat off?
It’s the Chicago way.
I might agree. But Ramsey Clark is right up there too. But think about this. The current AG might be as bad as Ramsey Clark. It doesn’t get much worse than that for America.
Elections have consequences. The Founding fathers limited the ability to vote for good reason. In our quest for complete fairness (democracy), we allowed everyone to vote, even those who either are totally uninformed, those who benefit, but do not contribute, or those with subversive agendas who would do us harm. Our Constitution guarantees that Right. Nov., 2012 must be our rallying cry to overturn what they have allowed our Government to become.
The call for an armed insurrection to dismantle our Federal government at this time is unrealistic and would not succeed. It would be regarded as a riot and dealt with as such.
The only justification for a public call to armed insurrection in our Country is if we are fired upon first, by our government in an attempt to disarm and subjugate us. Then it’s self defense as specified in our Constitution.
No doubt about it though, Obama is trying to disarm us, just as Liberals and anti-gun people have for decades. He’s doing it with incremental regulations created by Executive Order.
It’s started already, even in the face of Fast and Furious, with a requirement for gun dealers in the Border States to keep records on certain firearms sales, that he quietly created just a few weeks ago. It is the beginning of a list of little things that could lead to government’s ability to try to locate and confiscate John Q. Citizen’s firearms.
But he and his minions are so arrogant and deluded, they do not realize they cannot accomplish disarming America. Our military and police will not stand for it and will not respond to orders to do it. Certainly some could try, but they would be powerless against the masses (us)and would realize it.