Quick and dirty debate after-report: Perry is running out of gas; Excuses, excuses
To be fair, if you and I had to be up on stage with Charlie Rose and Karen Tumulty, we’d be soporifically stupefied after a few minutes, too.
But then again, we’re not running for the highest office in the land and raising millions of dollars from people across the country who are counting on a candidate with the guts, gall, and gumption to take on Barack Obama.
By those basic measures of fitness for office, Rick Perry once again failed to deliver. He was languid. Passive. Half-hearted. Listless. Just like he was during the 9/23 debate.
I’m really, really trying to be nice.
Looks like Team Perry’s plan to have him sleep more isn’t working.
At one point during the debate, candidates were allowed to question each other. Armed with the golden gift of new White House records showing intimate meetings between Romneycare architect Jonathan Gruber and the Obama administration, Perry mumbled a jovial question at Romney for a few seconds — after which Romney steamrolled him with his usual spin for the next several minutes.
Perry disappeared somewhere under the table after that. Or maybe he was playing Words with Friends on his iPhone. Or looking at his watch George H.W. Bush-style.
At another point, Perry mentioned “block granting” — several times — as the answer to America’s fiscal prayers.
Crickets chirped in the audience.
His next golden opportunity to show a fighting spirit came when Tumulty asked him about Obama’s Solyndra disaster.
He failed to go after Obama’s crony corruption (perhaps because of all the skeletons in his own closet).
He failed to go after the green jobs racket (perhaps because of all the skeletons in his own closet).
And instead, he defended the state-level subsidies game of picking winners and losers.
Cringe-worthy x 1,000. From the debate transcript:
MS. TUMULTY: Right. Governor Perry, taxpayers stand to lose half a billion dollars in the collapse of Solyndra, which is a solar energy firm that was a centerpiece of the Obama green jobs initiative. Do you think there were inadequate safeguards there, or do you think this is just the risk we run when the government gets involved in subsidizing new industries and technologies?
GOV. PERRY: Well, I don’t think the federal government should be involved in that type of investment, period. If states want to choose to do that, I think that’s fine for states to do that.
Fine for the states to siphon taxpayer money away from workers and redistribute it to cronies behind closed doors in sweetheart deals?
Taxpayers continue to pay the bill for cronyism as the debt balloons, the dollar collapses, and our credit rating falls. From the 2008 financial meltdown, the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac debacle, and multiple pork-laden stimulus bills to auto bailouts, TARP, and easy federal loans for speculative projects, the costs mount.
With such a clear pattern of corruption and special deals for contributors and insiders, how could Republicans possibly fail to capitalize on Obama’s reckless waste of taxpayer money in rewarding his biggest fundraisers? Republicans can easily throw away the advantage by nominating a candidate with a record of rewarding friends and donors with the spoils of government power.
In Texas, bio-tech firm Convergen LifeSciences looks a lot like Governor Rick Perry’s Solyndra.
Governor Perry manages the Emerging Technology Fund (ETF), providing financial support to companies developing new technology in the hope of creating high-tech jobs. First created in 2005, ETF is made up of regional panels that screen proposals for a statewide advisory panel (all appointed by Perry). ETF dispersed $342 million through August 2010.
Like Solyndra, Convergen’s project to develop a lung cancer treatment was easily identified as a speculative endeavor. Convegen’s proposal was rejected at the regional review board, part of the normal ETF evaluation process designed to insulate the program from politics.
Solyndra had George Kaiser, mega-fund-raiser for Obama. Convergen had David Nance, mega-donor for Perry. Nance is the founder of Convergen. Despite several business and personal bankruptcies — including previously failed companies partially funded by the state — Nance managed to donate $335,000 to Perry’s campaigns, association fundraisers, and foundation.
As in the case of Solyndra, Convergen received help in circumventing the normal process. This part is very murky. Somehow, the proposal that failed the regional review was presented at the closed-door session of the state advisory panel (which previously included Nance), where it was approved. While the governor’s office claimed that an appeal was filed, there is no appeals process in ETF’s charter. The process by which Convergen received $4.5 million — the highest amount ever awarded — was “extraordinary.”
Where Solyndra received a below-inflation interest rate, Convergen gave Texas an 8% annual interest promissory note with no due date.
Just like Solyndra, the principal investors unloaded risks on taxpayers. According to the previously secret state grant application, Convergen founders put up only $1,000 each, while Texas taxpayers put up $4.5 million. They were entering phase II clinical trials in late 2010, but only 33% of successful phase II drugs make it to market, and the success rate for cancer drugs is only 4.7%.
The big difference between Solyndra and Convergen is that Convergen hasn’t failed. Not yet, at least. The odds of success might be better than a roulette wheel, but this is taxpayer money.
Convergen is not an isolated case, either. In fact, Nance previously received state money “at the direction of the Governor’s budget office” for a now-bankrupt company which still owes Texas $50,000. Max Talbott served on Perry’s ETF panel and simultaneously was a paid consultant for several firms that sought and received money from the ETF. While he claims that he recused himself for some conflicts (in closed-door sessions), conflict of interest questions remain for other clients; $16 million of ETF funds went to the firms of major Perry donors, and $27 million of ETF funds went to firms of former ETF advisory board members.
There are also questions about unusual access by lobbyists who went to work for Perry and then returned to lobbying for firms doing business with the state.
Fail. Texas-sized fail.
The knives didn’t really come out for Herman Cain, whose most serious wound was self-inflicted. Bachmann made a good point about his 9-9-9 plan paving the way for a national sales tax/VAT. Santorum barked about it for a few minutes, too.
But then, the real stumble: Asked to endorse a candidate for the Federal Reserve, Cain chose his old friend Alan Greenspan.
I’ll agree with Ron Paul on this much: Greenspan was a disaster.
What the….????
Michele Bachmann did best attacking Medicare/Obamacare bureaucracies and, like Cain, looked to be angling for a VP slot.
Newt was Newt. Rick Santorum mostly watched, then piped up for a few seconds to complain about not having enough time.
As for that squishy liberal tan guy from Utah, my mute button got a workout with all of the time he received from Charlie Rose and the No Labels sympathizers. I’m renaming my mute button the “Huntsman button.”
And Romney? Ugh. Main takeaway: He defended TARP — echoed by Cain — and refused to say he would oppose the next massive bailout to come along when another manufactured crisis hits. More of the same old big biz/big government corporatism. The inconvenient truth I’ve pointed out since GW Bush sold out the free market to save it and pre-socialized the economy for Obama is that TARP is ideological quicksand for almost every Beltway Republican. That’s why the Tea Party movement was born in the first place. Let’s not forget it.
Big winner: Barack Obama.
Big loser: Taxpayers.
Runner-up loser: Bloomberg TV’s livestream. Suckage.
Worst mangling of English language: Perry’s use of the bureaucratic mumbo-jumbo “impactful.”
Arrrrghhh.
Damn, it’s a long road to 2012.
***
Word to Rick Perry: Nytol will help you get your zzzz’s, but if it’s this draining for you at the primary election stage, maybe this dog ain’t huntin’.
If you can’t convince rank-and-file conservatives you have the gas, pull over and let someone else drive. We tried a GOP candidate running on half a tank in 2008. Don’t need a repeat of that disaster.
***
Other reax:
Dana Loesch on Perry’s botched Romney attack: “Perry had a golden opportunity to put the screws to him and fumbled.”
Philip Klein: “Perry makes Pawlenty look like a world champion debater.”
Chris Miller: “I am a huge Perry fan. But he blew it on the chance to take Romney down with Healthcare question. Disappointed.”
David Freddoso: “Perry played it safe and lost.”
John Hinderaker: “Rick Perry, during the half of the debate that I saw, bordered on invisible. I don’t know whether the pundits who say this was make or break for Perry are right, but it certainly was not a strong night for him. One thing that strikes me as odd is how little mileage Perry gets out of his job creation record in Texas. He mentioned it a time or two, but, as in prior debates, he didn’t use it effectively as the foundation of his claim to be the strongest candidate.”
See also: Perry #fail.
***
Here comes the CYA:
After a two-hour debate on the economy, earnest GOP operatives headed straight to the spin room to tout the merits of their respective candidates.
As for Texas Gov. Rick Perry,he headed straight to the Beta Theta Pi fraternity house.
“Debates are not my strong suit,” Perry told about 100 fraternity brothers gathered to see him at the house, a few blocks from the debate site on the campus of Dartmouth College.
Swell. Just what Obama ordered…
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Romneycare will not beat Obamacare.
Perry is Bush III.
Beat Obama with a CAIN!
Palin bowed out too soon. These shmucks got nothing!
Rogue
Concur. She probably cares about her family too much to put them through all the crap though.
Fine Michelle, they all suck. So who out of the declared candidates will you vote for?
Other than the heartless remark (and I am a huge immigration hawk) I think Perry has what it takes to be President. Yes he has made some mistakes in his 10 years governing the most successful state in the union but just because he is not all flash and razzle dazzle is no reason to disparage him.
Although I did not watch the debate (had other more productive things to do at the time), from reading MM’s synopsis of it, I would say that perhaps Perry never really awoke out of his sleep. It was that half asleep, groggy feeling you get when someone wakes you before you are really ready to wake up. Maybe they just need to point him in the direction of the exit before he embarrasses himself further.
Mitt’s “I want to fundamentally restructure the foundation of America’s economy” bit was freaking tone-deaf and stupid. I hate him for that alone.
A long road to 2012 indeed.
I am disappointed that this site supports a liberal like Romney to be our candidate. Never thought I’d see the likes of this here.
Juliesa – Did you not READ:
And Romney? Ugh. Main takeaway: He defended TARP — echoed by Cain — and refused to say he would oppose the next massive bailout to come along when another manufactured crisis hits. More of the same old big biz/big government corporatism. The inconvenient truth I’ve pointed out since GW Bush sold out the free market to save it and pre-socialized the economy for Obama is that TARP is ideological quicksand for almost every Beltway Republican. That’s why the Tea Party movement was born in the first place. Let’s not forget it.
I don’t like Perry on illegal immigration, and he’s more likely to lose a debate to Obama than the rest.
I don’t like Romneycare, & Mitt’s belief in manmade global warming.
Cain’s political resume’ is light. Non-existent, even. May not have enough $ for the slog to the nomination.
Of these 3,Cain has
the best weaknesses.
Paul Cain, Cain Paul, the rest can go pound sand.
Yes!!! I would so get this bumper-sticker! (-:
And out of 350,000,000 people, this is the best we’ve got? Seems to me that both Democrats and Republicans are sucking. But hey, as long as folks think that candidates must have a “D” or “R”, then we’ll never get the best. Only the best of what’s left.
So, Perry’s taken himself out, Cain shot himself in the mouth… that leaves Romney as the only one left to get rid of before we can start seriously considering conservative candidates.
I liked Santorum, Bachmann and a little bit of Gingrich tonight.
Unfortunately, the economy was supposed to be one of Perry’s strong areas. He`has a fair track record in Texas, but he isn’t getting his point across in a very dynamic way. If he keeps this up, he will be destroyed on his weak areas like immigration. He needs to wake up, attack Obama rather than the other Republicans, get his message out in a more coherant manner, and get tough illegal immigration.
The moderators for this debate really sucked. They were participating in the debate as candidates rather than moderators. Tough questions are welcome and should be asked, but don’t let bias show during the questioning.
My god. It appears we’ll be sucking hind tit again. McRomney, McPerry, whats the difference. We true Americans, patriots deserve better.
Is it still a possibility that a real candidate is still waiting in the wings?
Why not three snarky image props poking fun at Perry’s energy issues? Why stop at two? I think we get it.
All aboard… the CAIN TRAIN! Woo-Hoo!!
Heck, I don’t know. Maybe Romney won’t be that bad. Who knows. All I do know is that we have to nominate SOMEBODY who can beat obama! We can’t nick-pick too much, because the other option is obama!
All aboard the Cain Train! Woo-Hoo!!
***
HI ROGUE CHEDDAR–#2. My feeling exactly–the ‘Cuda stands out among this crowd of RINOs and the 3 (kindov) conservatives. Cain seems like my second choice. We are probably in “hold your nose, shut your eyes, and force yourself to vote for the Mittster” mode.
***
Who’s up for a Sarah’Cuda write in vote if it looks like Comrade Obama will win reelection in 2012?
***
I’m getting the same sick feeling the defenders at the Alamo probably had when General Santa Ana’s main force finally showed up outside the walls. Ain’t looking good, sports fans.
***
John Bibb
***
Cain`s “gimmicky” 9-9-9 plan can work with some tweaking and he is the only candidate talking about seriously restructuring the tax code and eliminating all loopholes.
He isn`t a politician He made mistakes that a pol might not have, but don`t we want someone who does understand what will get biz back to running on some more cylinders and get6 people back to working. He has a plan that offers certainty for biz. They need little more than that !
Yes, he shot himself in the foot with his selection of Greenspan, but wasn`t he talking about the way A.G. ran the fed in the 90s ? Not in his last years ? That`s the context I heard anyway !
Cain`s “gimmicky” 9-9-9 plan can work with some tweaking and he is the only candidate talking about seriously restructuring the tax code and eliminating all loopholes.
He isn`t a politician He made mistakes that a pol might not have, but don`t we want someone who does understand what will get biz back to running on some more cylinders and get6 people back to working. He has a plan that offers certainty for biz. They need little more than that !
Yes, he shot himself in the foot with his selection of Greenspan, but wasn`t he talking about the way A.G. ran the fed in the 90s ? Not in his last years ? That`s the context I heard anyway !
Cain`s “gimmicky” 9-9-9 plan can work with some tweaking and he is the only candidate talking about seriously restructuring the tax code and eliminating all loopholes.
He isn`t a politician He made mistakes that a pol might not have, but don`t we want someone who does understand what will get biz back to running on some more cylinders and get people back to working. He has a plan that offers certainty for biz. They need little more than that !
Yes, he shot himself in the foot with his selection of Greenspan, but wasn`t he talking about the way A.G. ran the fed in the 90s ? Not in his last years ? That`s the context I heard anyway !
Cain`s “gimmicky” 9-9-9 plan can work with some tweaking and he is the only candidate talking about seriously restructuring the tax code and eliminating all loopholes.
He isn`t a politician. He made mistakes that a pol might not have, but don`t we want someone who does understand what will get biz back to running on some more cylinders and get people back to working. He has a plan that offers certainty for biz. There`s very little they need more than that !
Yes, he shot himself in the foot with his selection of Greenspan, but wasn`t he talking about the way A.G. ran the fed in the 90s ? Not in his last years ? That`s the context I heard anyway !
O o o oops !
Nice four-fer there SignGuy!
Cheaper in volume !
The fourth one is the one I really really meant to send !
I really, REALLY hoped that Perry would come out swinging tonight. He was barely sparring. He’s finished. My next choice was Bachmann, but she’s done for. Cain is surging, but I don’t care for that 999 plan. Nine percent tax is okay on income and sales, but not necessities like food and medicine. Huntsman was my nap time. Still, I’ll vote for any of them over obumble – even Huntsman.
Count me in, rocketman.
Nope… any tax, sales or income must be absolutely flat with no exceptions. No “picking winners and losers”. That road leads to the government deciding what products you should and shouldn’t be buying, or how you should do business and what businesses you do business with. It’s what we have now; the tax code, not as a way to pay for those things that benefit the taxed, but as a way for the gov’t to socially engineer our lives. With any exception for any reason to taxation, sooner or later (probably sooner) the gov’t will find other exceptions, most of which won’t be a matter of ethical or moral constraint, but a matter of paying-off constituencies.
Gosh not a real winner the bunch. Guess I will stick with Cain and his warts
Perry is purposely losing on purpose because the RINOpublican leadership want a different Marxist in the driver’s seat: Romney.
Regarding Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan, this is where it’ll end up in ten or twenty years:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d43r6iVgsc
Perhaps what we need is to have a debate open to candidates polling double digits (i.e, Cain, Gingrich, Paul, Perry, Romney).
Huntsman phone it in.
Bachmann you may qualify for an Iowa debate, I suppose, but you are tanking nationally.
Santorum you need to hang it up, too.
Gary Johnson needs the company of the others polling single digits.
Let’s go further in the answers beyond the platitudes and talking points. The plethora of candidates inhibits that, I believe.
I liked that one best!
Still the same bunch. I went through this a long while ago and wound up with Ron Paul. Yes, I was one of the people who used to make fun of Paulbots. But he’s hands-down the best on the economy, and his track record there is as close to perfect as you can get, at least from a politician. The national security stuff is a pain, but at this point the economy is a bigger threat to national security than Al Queda is. Yeah, that’s saying a lot but that’s where we’re at.
As far as the other candidates go, anyone who supported TARP is unqualified to set foot in Washington (not that stops most of these vote-buying ballot leaches).
ErikTheRed, I have changed my mind and agree with you. No more Cain because of TARP and now Paul all the way
I missed the first forty minutes or so, and I started to nod off during the last forty. I thought I was tired, but it sounds like I wasn’t the only one fighting to stay awake through the debate. Because of the snooze factor, I don’t have much to go on from this round of exchanges.
Romney performed well as far as I could tell. The key word in that sentence was “performed.” He said that “on day one” he’ll go after China for undervaluing its currency. He’s said before that he’ll waiver all 50 states from ObamaCare on his first day in office, and this time he repeated his intent to repeal the law. Sounds like he’s got a busy first day planned. Don’t overextend yourself, Mitt. Rome wasn’t burned down in a day.
Mitt may indeed try to repeal ObamaCare, but do not doubt for a second that he would replace the present individual mandate with his own version.*
And the more I see of Cain, the less inclined I am to vote for him. I stated last time that his tax plan is a gimmick, and the 9% sales tax will not sit well with alottalotta people. It doesn’t matter that costs may go down on the things we buy as a result of the rest of his plan coming to fruition, because those effects would not be seen immediately. It’s also a big gamble to implement a “simple” plan. The best laid schemes of mice and men, as it has been said.
Cain won’t get enough legislative support, either. If he can’t get everyone else to sign off on his plan, what is Cain’s “Plan B-C-D”? Also, the point’s starting to be made that if Cain institutes a 9% federal sales tax, what’s to stop the government from raising that rate higher in the future?
I still haven’t forgotten from the previous debate who Cain said he’d choose from the other candidates as his running mate—Grand Old Newt. Though Herman seems like an affable guy, I’m just not wholly keen on Cain yet on a political level.
I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to turn Cain’s plan numbers upside-down. I should have known Michele Bachmann would be the one to do so. Bachmann wasn’t all bad, from what I saw and heard tonight. I just don’t see enough in her to get mass support in a general election. It could be that I underestimate Obama’s ability to perturb the American voting populace to the point where a highly conservative yet flawed and unproven Congresswoman could possibly become our next president.
I don’t give Perry, Santorum, Huntsman, Paul, or Gingrich much thought for obvious and previously stated reasons. They are all off my personal list of choices.
I really, really wish I won’t have to settle, but I was concerned even as Obama got elected that I wouldn’t be able to get excited about anyone the GOP would be offering in our current election cycle. Sure, most of the candidates would be better than Obama, but we should be doing so much better than we are. And that’s quite sad.
The stream connection, however, was pretty good on my end. I didn’t notice any any buffering or freezing. Again, I admit that I missed a lot of the beginning, so maybe that was just happening early on. Did anyone address how they believe illegal immigration affects our economy? Did zero-based budgeting get discussed at all? I’m assuming “negatory” on both counts.
Strange how I can focus so much attention toward writing about a debate that barely kept me awake. I could be sleeping in blissful ignorance right now. Stoopid internet. Good night.
*It’s a shame I had to link to a Democrat video to stress the point, but it provides a bit of additional context to Perry’s shock-and-awe attack ad from the other day.
Given what is up there for us to pick from, since no attempt has been made over the last 3 years to form a serious, independent and constitutionalsit (conservative) party, the only logical choice is Ron Paul at this point. At least I know where he stands and he doesn’t flip-flop unlike the rest of the GOP crowd; his perceived foreign policy negatives, a lot of which are at least sound over the long-term (as opposed to the short-term), can be worked around.
I can say I at least trust him, which is something I cannot say about the rest of the GOP pack, including the on again/off again Palin.
On my way to the airport to be groped. I sure hope they don’t find my skillet!
I’ll miss you all. See you in a couple weeks!
Ron Paul always does the best in debates because he isn’t trying to look good or recite talking points. He simply speaks common sense – less government, less spending, more choice, more personal freedom and responsibility.
It amazes me that he is not better received by more on the right.
I don’t like when he blames America for 9-11, but no candidate is perfect. On the whole, Paul is what America needs. Unfortunately though, it looks like Romney will get the nomination, so, whether you repeal Obamacare and replace it with RomneyCare, you get more problems, one which Paul is the only candidate to comprehend.
What I find discouraging – NOBODY seems to be asking the question “What do we want government to be doing?” What is the fundamental purpose of government? What does the constitution say is the purpose of government?
People are ignorant that for every power they give government to “do good”, it ALWAYS has equal power to “do bad”.
Instead of asking about direction of government, shouldn’t we be asking the more fundamental question of should government be involved at all? Politicians that simply want to change direction, don’t impress me.
#RockYouLikeAHermanCain
So do you prefer Romney, Michelle? Because that’s who the frontrunner is and that’s who you need to be addressing, unless for some reason you like him.
I was unable to experience the debate last night but thanks to MM I get the gist – nothing surprising. She did not reference Ron Paul but I know exactly what his performance was – Constitutional solutions. Dr. Paul often does not verbalize his answers in the manner I would. Instead of placing part of the blame of 911 on America, I would have said we have created an environment through our foreign policies that invite attack. He has clarified that statement but most people don’t want to acknowledge that. I know most of you are much like I used to be – letting ego effect your thought processes – but we can no longer pursue the policy of “World’s Policeman”. Our founders warned of this policy but all the commenters seem to fully disregard their warnings. Conservativism means conserving our beginnings and Constitution and too many conservatives stray from our founding. Apart from the obvious progressives (Romney, Huntsman, Newt, Perry – “W”‘s clone and Santorum – illegal immigration, find me a war, tax code) I cannot place trust in any of the others. Bachmann (IRS – (un)Patriot Act and even Cain (Fed – Greenspan) do not instill trust when it comes to the Constitution and believe me the Constitution is the only guide we should follow.
On October 11th, 2011 at 11:28 pm, juliesa said:
I am disappointed that this site supports a liberal like Romney to be our candidate. Never thought I’d see the likes of this here.
#8On October 11th, 2011 at 11:30 pm, Michelle Malkin said:
Juliesa – Did you not READ:
And Romney? Ugh. Main takeaway: He defended TARP — echoed by Cain — and refused to say he would oppose the next massive bailout to come along when another manufactured crisis hits. More of the same old big biz/big government corporatism. The inconvenient truth I’ve pointed out since GW Bush sold out the free market to save it and pre-socialized the economy for Obama is that TARP is ideological quicksand for almost every Beltway Republican. That’s why the Tea Party movement was born in the first place. Let’s not forget it.
MM, I’m glad to see that you REALLY do read these comments.
Newt is the only one in the field capable of destroying Obama in a debate. He has complete knowledge of how everything works in D.C. and the rest of the world. Last night was but a preview of what will happen when the GOP candidate debates Obama (the master of spin).
Perry can’t think on his feet, Romney is a RINO and it will be hard to distinguish him from Obama and Cain is great buy has limited experience. Santorum is a real conservative, but he’s too far back.
If the mission is to defeat Obama with a conservative, then Newt is our best hope.
Try to remember these debate reviews when Obama wins in 2012 because we were too busy eviscerating conservatives who weren’t perfect.
Napoleon Dynamite: Lucky!
I was no Perry fan at the start but even I am surprised at his lack of debating skills. Whoever gets elected needs to be a great communicator. The president must command, not mumble. Romney did well. Cain gives very strong answers and statements.
Newt seems to answer questions as another question. It could be confusing if the president asks another question instead of giving an orders. Michelle Bachmann did good.
I had trouble listening to Ron Paul. It appeared that one of his eyebrows was fake and coming off. His answers always feel weak. Huntsman and Santorum, why are you wasting my time?
The comercials with the little kids asking questions was the best part of the debate, perhaps the Peter G. Peterson Foundation should run for president. They seem to understand the problem.
The Evelyn Woodhead Sped Redin’ and Comprension course in’t in the curriculum of liberal indoctrination centers nowdays (as you are well aware).
They are only interested in liberal indoctrination. (see: the ‘Woodstock on Wall Street’ crowd.)
Some of you are out of your freakin’ minds. Ok, you don’t like Romney. Guess what? He could be our nominee, and you’d better get you butts behind him, if he is, or you can just go straight to Obamaland Version 2.0. No, he’s not a Marxist. Bunk. He’s wrong on global warming. He was wrong on an individual mandate in Massachusetts, but he’s against doing that at the federal level. You may disagree, but he’s right from a constitutional perspective that the states have more leeway in that regard than the federal government. It’s always a bad idea, period. But it’s a state’s rights issues. Hey, remember that? 10th amendment stuff. He will end Obamacare if elected, by whatever means. He favors less government. He’s on record for the balanced budget amendment. Good grief, what does it take? And don’t give me that misinterpreted crap about him wanting to “fundamentally change” the economy — yes, back to free market, which it certainly is not under the present federal corpratism.
Try to remember when Obama won in 2008 because we ignored the GOP primary candidates’ imperfections.
The thing I heard last night that still stuns me was Mittwit saying he thinks Obama “means well…” Good grief, I know very few people delusional enough to believe anything close to that. Scary that he might really think anything of the sort.
It would be very useful to have a discussion about that. I really don’t like a national sales tax because it is so regressive which is why a VAT tax makes more sense. But it requires more accounting to track where value is added into the price of everything so it is not as bureaucratically efficient. But it taxes people who can afford and salivate over paying $100,000 for a car that cost maybe $10,000 more to make than a $25,000 car. Food has almost no value added and so is untouched.
I really don’t understand why it is so easy to dismiss this option without discussion.
The other thing is that people are trying to torpedo Cain’s 9-9-9 plan with ridicule rather than reason. It may be that the right mix is 8-6-6 or 5-5-5 or whatever but it is the best plan on the table. Romney-s 59-point plan is designed to save big government by stabilizing it. As I read it, it amounts to the first points of what will end up as another 6,000 page comprehensive economic plan.
We need to shrink government while making more efficient. The concept matters more than the numbers hanging in the air like a kite. “Pretty kite. Let’s go with that one.”
(yawn) I believe you have suffered anoxia from holding your nose far too long and forgetting to breathe. Pity those brain cells won’t be coming back.
What is it about Texans that prevents them from speaking plain English without stumbling, fumbling and completely losing their audience before they finally spit out an idea or argument? Good grief.
The great economist Bastiat said “The worst thing that can happen to a good idea is not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended”. Rick Perry’s ineptitude is rapidly disqualifying him from this race. Very disappointing.
However, remember: Ultimately, the only question that counts in politics is “Comapred to what?” No matter which of these imperfect candidates survives the primaries and emerges as the GOP nominee, that question will be easy to answer.
If Romney is the nominee we haven’t won anything. We voters in 2010 made a statement about the hope and change we wanted. Romney is not that change. Sadly, not many of these candidates are what we want. I like Bachman but the media has already vilified her to the point that she may not be electable. I like Herman Cain but the attack is on.
At this point I feel pretty hopeless that America as we’ve known it is no more. The liberals and progressives want socialism. An old man in my workout was preaching the wonders of socialism to me to the point that I had to leave. God help us if he gets what he wants.
Our republic is on life support and Mitt Romney will save us??
Hey Ron, Mitt Romney, like Rick Perry, is nothing but a lying statist. Neither of them are even good liars either. You still take these people at face value? You are the one out of your mind. Please do not vote in the primaries.
Cain just reached strike three for me. Newt as running mate? Tarp? And Mr. Andrea Mitchell for Federal Reserve? Forget it, Cain, no way no how. Sounds like the alleged kooks might be right about him.
The Paulbots sound smarter every day…
I hope people start to realize he’s a just a better choice than any of the other losers.
Go ahead and fret that he’s not a war hawk, look what the Communist Terrorists have done to this country in three years. If this country was functioning as inteneded, the Islamic Terrorists would not be such threat anyways, informed and armed citizens would root them out and return them to their respective crapistans. No more asylum, no more visas, no more open boarders, no more social engineering in the name of diversity. Let them build their own free nations, or not.
When you’re a pay-to-play politician enriching himself with shady land deals, you really don’t pay attention to “the vision thing”. It seems to be a chronic problem with Texan presidential candidates.
We are trying to elect an honest politician who will undo Chicagoland corruption, not replace it with Texas crony corruption.
I wish someone had brought up Perry’s record of making Texas the best place for illegal aliens to find jobs that pay below minimum wage subsidized by porkulus.
The choice is pretty clear, if these are our choices. The frontrunners will all sell the country out. Ron Paul will not sell us out. Are you really gonna let a bunch of trowback muslims scare you into voting for another Bush or worse? We can’t afford it America.
All VAT does is make more complex products more expensive and encourage vertical integration of companies. A national sales tax is flat, whereas a VAT is exponential.
The national sales tax is only regressive if it’s the only source of revenue. Most states have a sales tax and you don’t hear the regressive complaints.
I’ve been to a couple of Paul rallies. You guys ARE kooks. If I have to talk to one more guy quoting Alex Jones and his insane conspiracy theories and how the Federal Reserve is secretly owned by an international cabal I may just go postal.
And then there is the anti-Semitism. Give it up. A the Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, Ron Paul is exactly where he can do the most good and should stay there. He is the figurehead of a very ugly group of people.
No matter who goes to Washington to be the president, they are better than Obama. Obie hates America as only a half black muslim marxist can. Our biggest mistake as a country was to give him a veto proof congress for 2 years.
We, the people must continue to elect the most conservative people we can, especially in the state races, because without a constitutional amendment or congress, our fiscal problems are never going to be fixed. As long as politicians hold the tax purses, they will give money to their family and friends, one way or another. The only way to fix that is to have an amendment which takes their hands out of the purse. Lobbyist give them bribes, and they write legislation in the tax or regulatory code rewarding the lobbyist’s agent. Donors give them bribes, and ditto. They can do this relatively anonymously because all they have to do is go to their club members and work an inside Washington deal which only sees the light of day when someone reports solyndra collapses, or GE doesn’t pay income tax.
With a flat tax for everyone with no exemptions and no exceptions, the ONLY vote they are allowed on taxes or rules is to vote EVERYONE’S taxes up or down, which we all know about immediately.
The same with saving SS and Medicare. Make it universal and the exclusive program for ALL Americans, and NO pensions, public or private, other than 401k plans. Public employees and private employees can have no more than a 2% match, and no one can put more than 5K in their plan per year. That means that gubmints can reward their workers with $100 bucks per year just as private businesses. Everyone is in SS and hence retires at 66, whether you are in the military, work for the post office, General Motors, or Jims Auto. Medicare is the same, everybody, so if you are injured in the military, medicare is your care. If you are disabled on the job, medicare is your care. If you are Senator Gotbucks, Medicare still is your 66 and over medical program.
If laws ACTUALLY apply to all equally, the class warfare and anymosity is greatly diminished. Since the 60′s we have made more and more laws and regulatons apply to some, not all, in our very human attempt to right perceived past wrongs, but as all school children are taught, 2 wrongs don’t make a right.
I understand that part. I would just like a discussion about how it shrinks government. Both are infinitely less complicated than our current impossibly byzantine and unfair tax code so either would be a step in the right direction. But how do we reason our way to an optimum solution?
I really don’t like paying a 9% national sales tax on top of a 9% state sales tax but I suspect that the accounting industry will move into a VAT environment and recreate the current tax code problems.
We really need an in-depth discussion of this before we commit. I would likely end up arguing for a massive reduction of government spending first to energize the need for tax efficiency. That is what makes Cain so appealing. Clarity and common senes. The others are all image, bafflegab and technobabble. It’s like the old saying that all you need to succeed in a company is a nice haircut, nice shoes and a good line of BS.
All right, so we’re stuck with a field of less-than-desirable candidates. My choice (if I get the chance here in PA) will be Herman Cain (until further notice!). Ugghh indeed, MM.
My prediction:
Romney wins the nomination. Ron Paul runs as a third party candidate. obama wins second term.
AMEN
The devil is in the details. It will need to be implemented in a way that will not allow successive administrations to carve out exceptions for selected constituencies.
However, I think it is exactly the type of fresh start that could get the economy moving again as well as whittle away at our entitlement/debt problem.
The Perry flame out was predictable- big mouth, bad speaker, immigration nightmare. Cain is fun to hear but has no legislative experience and a flaming tongue. I liked Christie but he was smart to bow out, not enough tread on the tires. Romney seems like he’s a RINO and is just keeping his head down until the final stretch, and maybe he won’t perk up even then. Santorum, Paul, Bachmann, Gingrich, all smart folks but way too much loopey baggage.
Thanks, Repubs, for bringing the rubber knives to a rhetorical gunfight.
After watching all three debates, I like Romney even less now than I did previously. What has been rankling me, and now it has infuriated me, is the presumption by the Left, the establishment GOP and MSM that he is going to be the nominee, come hell or high water, because it’s the “his turn” nonsense. They’re not even bothering to hide it; it’s just another “let’s shove this nomination down your throat,” just as they have with all their legislative misadventures.
Romney is about as conservative as my Democrat neighbor’s front porch. Nothing he’s said so far causes me to believe he has any core convictions whatsoever; he says what he says because it’s politically expedient. He has no genuine passion, no enthusiasm. You know that Obama and his handlers are just salivating over being able to use all of his flip-flops against him as viciously as possible, should he end up being the nominee.
Lest everyone think otherwise, I’m not enthusiastic about any of the other GOP nominees and I can’t say at this point who I’d support. Whoever it is, I will vote for them, because sitting out this election is absolutely not an option. But what I would really like to see emerge from all this is an attitude, a fighting spirit from someone — if it’s one of the current GOP candidates, so much the better — who stands up and says that it is time to shut down the failed policies of Liberalism/Progressivism, mean it, and do it.
Knowing what I know about the current GOP, I’m not holding my breath that it will happen any time soon, but it needs to be done or we are finished.
I understand the sentiment, Phil. I agree that Alex Jones is over the top and that the antisemitism is ugly.
I just think that there are some conspiracies, how else could you come up with such a bunch of frauds to run for president?
I agree that Ron Paul is a flawed candidate as well, but it’s just so obvious all the others are more of the same big lie like John McCain.
I like Bachmann too, but the media has already made her into a monster. People in this country have been conditioned to respond to conservative women unfavorably,and it’s a damn shame.
I’m sorry, but Herman Cain endorsing TARP and MR. Andrea Mitchell is a nightmare. I know everyone is on the Cain Bandwagon now, but really, what else does he have going for him now but a big mouth and the fact that now conservatives can ease their racial guilt?
TARP, Newt Gingrich, and Alan Greenspan are part of business as usual, tried and failed, wrong track America. We need to get on the constitutional track and these phonies have no intention of getting us there.
And to all of you fools who think anyone is better than Obama, just think how much McCain could have wrecked this country, with Cap and Trade, Amnesty, more crony capitalism, it might have been even easier for him to get away with it, that pinko fraud.
Enough with the pink Republicans. Where is the damn beef with these fakers?
How about a track record of success and a whole set of fresh ideas.
For the record, I have absolutely no racial guilt, never had any reason to.
I only read the 1st 36 or so comments aftr that I was put to sleep with basically the same after the same.
What is wrong with Mrs. Bachmann, she’s intelligent, attractive, experienced in business(fed. corp. taxes, think she may know a thing or two about the tax structure), experienced in government and fighting big government and a down to earth lover of family values. She has no skeletons in the closet as far as we know and everyone over looks her.
WHY!
If the criteria for becoming a conservative president is you must have been a Governor, when the Governors and ex governors in the debate are the best we can come up with we are in big trouble.
And what’s with this they must have executive experience, what do you think it means when you are owner, ceo, coo or blah blah blah of a company or corp. are you not in charge of your money and that of others(stockholders). The difference being you are liable for the end result and can’t pass it off to the tax payers then cover it with smarmy rational. If you have the authority to bring in the tax dollars…that makes one qualified. I do not believe so…the answer is in the character of the person, not the office they hold/held. They need to walk the talk.
Bachmann , Cain, Santorum are the best IMO, even Gingrich gets my attention with his smarts…but likes sitting on couches because of the weather.
I like Bachmann. She’s exactly as you’ve outlined. You ask why: she’s not the GOP’s choice and the State Run Media has already discounted her. Many sheeple will run from her for those two reasons.
I’d love to see a Bachmann-Palin ticket. But it will never happen. The good old boy system will see to that.
She was rising and then she shot herself in the foot with her mental retardation anecdote. She had my vote until she chose to marginalize herself.
It is Faux News and the other MSM
Some of you folks are still seeking the perfect candidate. It simply is not, has not and will not ever happen.
Good luck to you Paul people. He may not even survive to be around in 2013. He’s my age for crying out loud and that is not a good receipe for being our President until 2016, let alone 2020!
And that doesn’t even address his stances on several issues that put him outside the mainstream of our Party. His stances on pot, 9-11 and international affairs turn off most of us. That’s why he keeps polling at around 10%.
We still have months before the Primaries that actually result in someone being nominated to be our standard bearer for Nov. 2012. I’m still sticking with Cain. Whomever you choose to support should be just as important to you. We’ll see who comes out on top and have to go on from there next year.
It is Faux News and the other MSM that is saying you have to be a former Gov. to qualify as a candidate.
Any conservative could give you the following solutions:
Inject energy into the economy by stopping our dependence on imported oil and the $$$$ outflow of oil imports. Begin a crash program of developing our own natural resources (proven) oil reserves, shale oil, natural gas and coal. Trash the commie EPA (along w/education/energy/commerce, ag) departments.
Go to the Fair Tax (place the unemployed IRS agents into an effective fraud investigative group under GAO and go after Dodd/Frank and GS and other corporate thiefs). Any candidate who wants to “reform” the current tax code is only wanting to figure a means to reward his/her cronies.
Close the border! No comprehensive (illegal) immigration bill. Keep the billions going back to Mexico in this country and begin hiring Americans with market wages.
Repeal all international trade agreements and negotiate “fair” trade. I know this will pain Wal-Mart and Home Depot but it will also return manufacturing to this country.
Return our troops home and no more Libyas, Bosnia’s, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran or Syrian theatres. Make our Defense budget for defense and not offense for whichever “elitist” occupies the WH.
Simple beginnings to real solutions. They wont be implemented by another McCain, Bush, Dole or other RINO like Romney, Perry, Newt, Santorum. Cain is supremely suspect with his stance on TARP and Greenspan. I consulted the FDIC and RTC in the 80′s-90′s during the S&L crisis and the current crisis could have been resolved in a like manner. Everyone (almost) was taken by Bush and Paulsen’s crisis declaration and took the bait while Frank/Dodd go unpunished for their part in the fraud.
Don’t accept another RINO or our Constitution and country will be lost.
#84, if, regardless of what we would like to happen, we reject a RINO who happens to be the nominee based on the voter’s selection in the 2012 Primaries, we guarantee our Constitution and Country are lost.
The next four years of vetos, power plays, political appointments, Supreme Court appointments and Obama bureaucrats raising havoc will assure our children and grandchildren grow up in an entirely different Nation than we have known.
I suggest that those of you who say my way or the highway hold back on your commitment to political suicide until after the Primary elections.
An example of the ‘chronic problems’ of Texan presidential candidates you refer to would be a fine thing.
As a Texan, I DON’T support his ‘flaws’ dealing with a myriad of issues even though the TEA Party of Florida is behind him. Mainly, I object to his in-state tuition for illegal aliens’ children and more examples of the ‘chronic problems’ you assert would come in handy. Is that coherent enough for you?
Careful… you will be branded as a noseholder by the Titular head of this website and self appointed spokesman for ‘most of the commenters here’.
this psychotic rant was in response to questions I posed asking for a link to back up his assertions.
apparently, he feels that he controls the discourse here.
RogueCheddar
I think she could have defeated Obama, but in reality she would have siphoned off votes from Cain and Bachmann and made sure that Romney was the guy.
It’s not because of the media or anything like that, it’s just that the field got so crowded and everyone else had a head-start and I think she made the decide to go entrepeneur instead a long time ago, and that is fine.
To be the next president, you are looking at putting the next 10 years of your life on hold for that. I’m not so sure her heart was totally in it.
Having said that, I love Sarah Palin and I hope she stays active in the public eye, if nothing else to annoy the elites, political class, beltway DC and the lame-stream media.
He is the only man up there who wtood on the floor of the House and told us that we were going to be attacked on American soil before it happened. He is the only man up there that told us that the housing bubble was going to pop. During the last debates, the other candidates literally laughed out loud when he insisted the economy was getting ready to tank. As far as I can tell, he’s never been wrong. I think AMerica is ready for a philosopher king, because these warrior kings are bankrupting us, both financially and morally.
Sorry Michelle. Being from the Great State of Texas all this sniping at Perry leaves me flat. Once again I do not plan on you ‘pundits’ selecting the losing candidate for me.
Nice try tho’.
Well, it sure wouldn’t be the first time. I voted for McCain in 2008, even though he certainly wasn’t my choice of GOP candidate. Hell, I voted for Bob Dole in 1996 because I couldn’t stand either Billy Jeff or his wife, although popular sentiment at the time in my neck of the woods was that one held one’s nose to vote for Clinton. So I guess that made me an anti-noseholder. I’ve never sat out an election, by the way — I vote in all of ‘em, municipal, state and federal.
I try my best to be a thoughtful commenter in this forum and if others agree, that’s fine. If they disagree, that’s fine, too. So frankly, I would never presume to be a spokesman for anyone other than myself. As Rush sometimes says, “My listeners are intelligent and can think for themselves.”
By the way:
Mitt Romney in 2003
Mitt Romney in 2011: