Jerry Brown: C’mon, California’s High Speed Rail Will Be Way Cheaper Than $100 Billion
**Written by Doug Powers
Late last year it was reported that California’s high speed rail project wouldn’t be completed for 22 years and would end up costing about $100 billion, which is three times the initial estimate. The project received over $2 billion from the stimulus.
Gov. Jerry Brown now says the cost won’t be nearly that much, because somehow carbon fees levied on businesses (some of which would no doubt flee the state) will fund a good portion of the construction:
“It’s not going to be $100 billion,” the Democratic governor said on ABC 7′s Eyewitness Newsmakers program. “That’s way off.”
Brown’s remarks come as his administration prepares revisions to the California High-Speed Rail Authority’s latest business plan. Brown is trying to push the project through an increasingly skeptical Legislature following a series of critical reports.
“Phase 1, I’m trying to redesign it in a way that in and of itself will be justified by the state investment,” Brown said. “We do have other sources of money: For example, cap-and-trade, which is this measure where you make people who produce greenhouse gasses pay certain fees – that will be a source of funding going forward for the high speed rail.”
Brown said, “It’s going to be a lot cheaper than people are saying.”
Wait a minute. So if industry stops spewing greenhouse gases into the atmosphere right now (thereby of course saving the planet from global warming) there won’t be enough cap/trade money for the government to build the latest bankruptcy-inducing glimmer in Joe Biden’s eye? I’ve yet to hear a more convincing argument for going green.
Not unlike the government taxing tobacco and using some of the money to pay for SCHIP, the “green” movement has developed a Catch-22 dependence the very things they seek to eliminate. So keep those smokestacks spewing filth and pay those carbon fees, California industry, because Moonbeam has a “green” rail system to pay for so the planet can be saved from global warming!
At least it helps explain recent decisions like this.
I’m amazed by a bureaucratic mindset that believes forcing a portion of the price tag of a bloated project onto select areas of the private sector will lower the cost to the government, and therefore the taxpayers.
Take it away, Governor:
**Written by Doug Powers
Twitter @ThePowersThatBe
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Tax and spend.
Tax and spend.
Tax and spend.
Correct me if I am wrong, but California is closing prisons and letting convicts free because of budget cuts, yet Govermor Moonbeam wants to build a chooo-chooo?
California is an interesting place. The self-described “conservatives” work to elect the radical leftists.
but wait a minute, didn’t east anglia just admit there is no global warming?
and if there is no global warming, why do we need to stop greenhouse gases?
and if we do not cap greenhouse gases, where will the money come from now?
And the reporterette didn’t ask “Are you freaking serious?”
This is like those WH briefings. No one there has the cajones to ask a tough question because they know they won’t get to come back.
I also heard the Governor say “temporary taxes….”
Has there ever been such a tax?
Yep, class warfare is alive and well in California.
Whoa, this guy’s logic–or lack thereof–is so demented, he could just about qualify to run Illinois, yeah, a little farther into the earth’s crust than it already is.
They could pay for it if they just turned highways 5 and 99 between SF and LA into toll roads. With toll booths every 10 miles. I’m sure the Gov. is looking into it.
/sarc
In California, everyone knows the price tag will exceed $100B by a lot, maybe double that. Moonbeam is counting on the Feds to bail them out.
Making this a “green” high speed train is going to be an engineering nightmare. All those solar panels attached to the train are going to create a big wind drag…just like the wind turbine on top of each car. Maybe the unicorn feces reactor will remain stable enough, if they can find enough Dodo birds to squawk at the right frequency in the resonant cavity.
For some reason this story reminds me of watching my dog go round and round chasing his tail the other day. Eventually he caught it. You could see him thinking “ok, what do I do with it now”? while he is all twisted up. He finally dropped it and then proceeded to continue his path of destruction through the house. BTW I’m pretty sure my dog is smarter than Gov. Moonbeam.
The only thing “Way off” is Governor Moonbeam.
I work in the rail industry, high speed will probably not exist in the US in my lifetime, the environmental studies alone will take billions of dollars, hundreds of attorneys and years to complete. We have not yet crossed the “not in my backyard” or the “that tree deserves to live” lines yet.
Existing rail lines are not technically designed to be “high speed”. So they could be used but would need to be upgraded, and the rails have invested in them to move freight which is higher paying than people.
This is all another dream with no way to fund it except with fake money. So I am sure the politicians will try.
I really do need to get the Hell out of California.
On January 31st, 2012 at 8:09 am, Roland said:
I escaped years ago and have never looked back – funnt story about Cali and their thirst for money – I was pursued for a couple years by the DMV to pay my licence fee and if I did not, would have my back account attched and possibly go to jail – you can guess what I wrote them lol
Brown’s exact amount. “It’s going to be a lot cheaper”. Like ya know we can use the money from the tax on weed.
How is he supposed to pin down the actual cost now? If he can raise taxes enough, it’ll be free!
True. It will probably be many times that amount. Medicare was supposed to be costing $12 Billion 20 years after it started. It was closer to 10 times that amount.
Government Math: NEVER carry the one.
Or as Satan would say:
I need to get the California out of Hell.
Ba-dump-ba, chish!
Tip your waitresses!
Thanks for the heads up. When I leave, I’ll make the break as clean and clear as possible. Cash out, and cash out.
Sacramento will love me for the one time capital gains, but this golden goose will be gone for good.
Dude, money’s not a problem. That’s what taxes and printing presses are for.
What good is a high speed rail system when there will be no ridership? In 20 years California will be a gigantic Thunderdome.
Government would be more tolerable if it were run by chimpanzees. Low overhead and no golden pension plans.
You mean two men enter, one man leaves?
Is this how civilizations end, with grandiose and pointless schemes? We won’t need to worry about asking the last person in California to turn off the lights. The power grid will be long gone before everyone can get out.
Three if you count Master Blaster.
Apparently Jerry Brown did not heed that warning.
The stupidity is absolutely stunning.
Basil Fawlty: You’ll have to forgive him. He’s from Barcelona.
I preferred Lord Humungus.
He kept order and had a sound energy policy.
Basil Fawlty: [to Jerry] Stupidissimo! Continental cretin!
Give us your tired and poor and those yearning to ride a high speed rail.
I wonder how many free lunches, vacations, tanks of gas, hotel rooms, lavish dinners,bar tabs, and bribes this money has paid for?
Brown said, “It’s going to be a lot cheaper than people are saying.”
No, even he is not saying it will cost less. He is just saying they will find backdoor ways to get Californians (and probably everyone else) to pay the huge bill so it won’t seem that the bill is so high. But the cap-and-trade fees will be passed on to consumers so they will pay the whole ticket one way or the other. CA still relies on slight of hand when they need simple 8th grade math skills.
While Texans send their leftist garbage to the White House as they are giving their state away to Mexico. Wake up, dude. The only place your Texas exists is in your head. You need to get out more.
And appropriately he was the Ruler of the Wasteland, which is what all tyrants ultimately end up giving the people they rule.
We’ll all be better off when California slips into the ocean. If that doesn’t happen, I’m all about seceding from the Not United States of America. Maybe then we won’t have to hear about the kookiness that goes on there on a daily basis and effects the rest of the nation.
He was telling the truth. The taxes are temporary…..the level of the tax will be temporary until they raise it higher and higher.
Same thing happened to me when I left in the 90′s. They also continued to send me jury duty notices. When I called them about it they told me that I would have to come back to California to prove that I had left California. And no I am not kidding.
C’mon man. The illegals have to have some way to get to the sanctuary cities.
Gov Moonbeam is off his meds again, eh? Since when has ANY government project gotten done on time and under budget?
Stopping undocumented Americans from getting to sanctuary cities is racist.
I would not be suprised to find out that there was an express train slotted to run from Tijuana to SF every few hours.
The actual cost of any gubmint project can be arrived at by a simple formula. Take the highest projected cost, square it and then multiply by pi.
I can understand the need for a light rail system out there. The traffic jams are unbelievable. It is one giant parking lot. They do have a problem. And, light rail going into the major cities, picking up people from the outlying suburbs and building “park and ride” stations is a beautiful thing. We have that here in Minneapolis and it is very very nice!
Believe it or not, Jesse Ventura got that ball rolling! I don’t know if the light rail will eventually fail, but for now, it is wonderful. I have used it a lot…it takes you right downtown to the Dome and other stuff.
Having said that…if you are bankrupt, you shouldn’t make plans to spend billions of dollars. That kind of logic continues to elude the regressives in California and DC.
As for the suggestion that California secede from the Union. That will never work. We would need a huge electrifed fence, a moat and alligators around the entire state to keep the inmates from escaping into the SANE states. And believe me, they would be trying desperately to get out!!
I know San Jose has light rail, but that did not really alleviate the problem as much as some might think it would. Part of the problem is the same problem you see in so many liberal states. When they build roads they do not build all purpose lanes they add new HOV (carpool lanes). This is great for people who carpool, but doesn’t help everyone out.
In parts of WA ST the HOV lanes are HOV lanes 24/7 365 and when I was in Napa last September I noticed that the HOV lanes around the Bay Bridge required a minimum of 3 people to use them.
Another problem in the San Jose are for traffic is road design. I remeber a stretch of 101 south bound that went from 4 southbound lanes to 2 southbound lanes in a half mile stretch. You can only imagine how bad the back up would get there.
Whoda thunk that having sex with Linda Ronstadt would be so draining of precious brain fluids.
Also, light rail only works if it is desigend right. In OR I used to take the MAX from Gresham to downtown everyday. After the first couple of stops that train would be standing room only.
In WA ST they designed the light rail poorly. They only had one park and ride lot on the entire stretch when it opened (not sure if they have added any since) and street parking near the light rail stops were changed to a max of either 2 or 4 hours. So the light rail lacked any real ridership.
Here is what the spokesman for SDOT said:
Sure it will be less. Just ask about the big dig in Massachusetts.
There is a reason why they are all heading for Sacramento….
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/31/skunks-flood-california-city-looking-for-love/?test=latestnews
Then CA should be able to FULLY fund it.
I-I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love…Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I-I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence.
So isn’t this Phil’s state?
Southern CA has light rail. But it never seems to be convenient to where I live or need to go. Gee. Go figure.
BTW, according to this, CA and TX have the same concentration of hispanics. And if I’m not mistaken, the largest urban population of Latinos in the world outside of Mexico City is Los Angeles. I guess that could be wrong, but East L.A. is 97% hispanic. (Just throwing some gas on a fire.;)
And don’t get me started on fluoridation!
Which solved absolutely nothing for the commute from either North or South, by the way.
***
The steamboats were the first engine powered transport vehicles. Big improvement over mule drawn barges and sailboats. Canals were dug to provide more access than rivers and coasts could. Most areas couldn’t be served by these systems.
***
Then the railroads opened up most of the country to easier travel. But not all areas could be served due to high costs of construction and operation.
***
Then buses, cars, and airplanes provided far better transportation to all areas. The time of trains and steamboats ended long ago. Except for subway and rail systems in densely packed corridors where they can compete at a profit and provide real benefits.
***
Governor MoonBeam is really unbalanced. Wasting 200 Billion (1 Trillion?) dollars of taxpayer money on a system that will have to be subsidized forever to “compete” is truly stupid. The marijuana smoke in Kali must have destroyed the ability to think long ago.
***
Politicians think that the laws of science and economics can be repealed by government. If they repealed the Law of Gravity these clueless and corrupt clowns would expect to see the furniture floating up in the air!
***
But the real goal is using any crisis or problem to enable them to “mine” the taxpayers pockets for money for themselves and their corrupt buddies. And Kali will probably be able to tap into the rest of the states pockets to “fund” their dreams.
***
If high speed trains made sense and were profitable without subsidies they would have been built long ago. By the free market capitalists–not by the government. Without taxpayer bucks.
***
John Bibb
***
And now Seattle wants to do the same with the Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement tunnel. At least the voters here in WA ST have drawn the line and have told Seattle if you want the tunnel then you fund.
Feed me, Mandrake, feed me……
Absolutely. Keep taxpayer bucks out of it entirely. Something that can be said of far too many government financed follies.
Drill Steampunk, Drill.
OK, stillontheroad. I want to hear the whole story about the California DMV.
Personally, my break with them was a lot cleaner. Never heard from them after I left.
Speaking of rail transportation on the west coast, has anyone seen the cost of a regular coach ticket from LA to SF?
I looked it up. It is $114 round trip on Amtrak and will take about 9 hours. I checked the airlines and they are $138 round trip and will take you 1 hour and 15 minutes.
you know, I was having a discussion with a friend the other day about how people rarely change before they’ve hit rock bottom.
Problem with our government is, once you’ve hit rock bottom, you print more money and keep digging till you hit China.
I’ve been looking for a job for the last three months. My hand is cramped from so many applications, I have walked into dozens upon dozens of businesses, and spent hours online looking for a job. So I’m a little incensed and trying to make sense of this. So here’s my attempt at understanding things.
This wonderful state of mine wants to make things as hard as possible for businesses to operate, by imposing additional taxes and tariffs on them, so that they can make more money, which comes from the taxes those businesses pay, to fund their projects which are supposed to save our state from a troubled economy, which we’re suffering from because of severe debt, which comes from spending money on ridiculous projects in the first place, instead using the hypothetical money that comes from crushing businesses to pay off the state debt.
Do I just about have that right? Because if I do, I don’t have any clue what I’m talking about.
No. The politician simply ignore economics and science for the benefit of their own political power and ability to divert trainloads of taxpayer money to their cronies be it family, friends, unions, and corporations.
Actually to the statist elites, air and private vehicle travel should only be reserved for their social and economic class.
Don’t you see, rail travel is for the hordes of the commoners to be forced to suffer in using. Fixed Rail Public transportation makes it easier for manipulation and control of public travel – when, where and how frequently.
You forgot the last step: then move the decimal point one space to the right.
perfect GIVEN transport for these preemy releasies.
Not to mention the nostalgic feelings of the old USSR that it stirs in liberals.
Chico: Vy a duck?! Vy not a chicken? Vy not a horse?
While it’s true that California is getting what they voted for (insanity & moronic politicians), it’s also true that there are a lot of Conservative Californians without a voice in any of it.
Yes indeed. They continually dream and conspire and plan for its revival right here in their very own USSSA – United Soviet Socialist States of Amerika.
Have you actually seen her? eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee….. Guaranteed dessication.
Now that is a very reasonable way of putting it. However, two things must be noted:
1. There are more actual liberals here than conservatives.
2. The “conservative” I have met here aren’t usually quite as conservative as they think they are. They would rate themselves very conservative, but compared to outside CA, they’re sort of centrist.
(More gas for a fire that sparked….)
NOTE: Yes, there are some dyed-in-the-wool conservatives and libertarians here, but they are quite small in number.
Ding, ding. The bell rings, the dog salivates.
Actually, there was a temporary tax increase here in CA that recently ended. That’s one of the things that upset the socialists… I mean Liberals. It can happen, and indeed, this fall will be an interesting election where the peeps of CA will be asked to vote for more tax increases. I doubt they will, because even the libs and centrists see their wallets shrinking.
BTW, I photographed Moonbeam once at an event in L.A., and he really is quite animated in person. Too bad he’s such a dweeb.
On January 31, 2012 at 07:26 am, mondamay said:
I was just thinking about Humungus last night…how alGore is Humungus, and all those sycophants pushing his myth were like the Toadie who introduced Humungus.
The ayatollah of shinola.
You mean, like a cartoon?
Ha! Well, his words sounded a little slurred and lispy and he kept saying something about a rascally rabbit, I think, but at least physically he was quite real. He resolved on my camera sensors, anyway.
But I’m not kidding, I couldn’t kill the shine on his head! I had to get creative angles while he was speaking or I was blinded! Again, I’m not kidding! (It was an outside engagement at a non-profit while he was AG.)
Well played, sir.
On January 31, 2012 at 08:36 am, happyscrapper said:
Perhaps someone has pointed this out, but, from what I recall, the Cali choo-choo will not go near many cities to make it worth riding.
Similar to other light rail liberal wet dreams around the country ….not going anywhere useful.
I’ve seen this in Arizona, as the politicians and they cronies get to buy the land in the path of the freeways, then make huge profits when the state pays for the land. Remember all boon-doggles are meant for two purposes only: money and power.
Urban planning is much to blame. The planners love to build a wheel plan with a center and spokes rather than a grid system. It funnels traffic into the densest areas. Since California also went to high density over urban sprawl (which environmentalists hate), land prices in the cities being limited soared, hence the housing price bubble that put us in a recession. Don’t expect California to learn a damn thing.
I can fly from Bend Oregon to Oakland for about 50 dollars and it takes a little over an hour.
About 25 years ago, I was considering going to the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, to get my masters degree. One of the options for military housing was to avoid the wait, and take a house down the coast at the Naval Facility in Big Sur. My friends advised against that option, as rockslides would frequently close the highway, and one would either be stuck in town or at home. I’m glad they’ve solved that problem. I’d hate to hit a boulder in a train going 120 MPH.
Flying out of Ontario or Palm Springs Airport, I would be in Oakland before a high speed train even reached Bakersfield.
Jerry Brown is a freakin’ moron.
Every time the conversation gets heated to build the Texas Triangle, a train between Houston, Dallas and San Antonio, SW Airlines drops their ticket prices to $59 one way anywhere in Texas and screws the economics they try to justify it with.
I also know it is just about exactly the same distance between Houston and Dallas whether you go I-45 or I-35/Hwy 6/US290. I just ran that circle and I think SW Airlines also pays TxDOT to keep at least one project on each to bottle up both routes.
O/T…Rush is talking about this right now:
Errah, He’s probably right because they will price out all the work and bridges with union wages and rules and decide the chinese can do it for less with chinese steel just like the Guvinator did.
“Cracker Counties”, keeping with the civility theme.
“I can fly from Bend Oregon to Oakland”
Yes but if you take the train your arms won’t be so tired when you arrive.
I vote for California to be free from the constraints of being a state. It needs to be a free and independent country so that all the loopy ideas its citizens want won’t be paid for by the rest of us and Princess Nan can be speaker again without imposing her will on the rest of the country.
More convoluted thinking by the prog left.
I dare say the whole mass transit, rapid train thing, huddled masses controlled by an elite group of folks is the left. They don’t need to justify it economically in anyway as their world view takes care of that for them.
We the huddled masses need them to tell us how to move about and what business we’ll be doing in that moving about.
So if you think you can talk a Jerry Brown out of rapid train or any other mass transit by using facts and figures you are crazy just as he is.
The only way to prevent this stuff from ever happening is to keep folks like Jerry Brown out of power.
Politico’s Jonathan Martin Mocks Conservative Florida Voters as the ‘Cracker Counties’
Well if anyone actually watched the show you’d have more folks complaining.
The project will be halted, once they discover an endangered newt in the way….
The other aspect of the rapid transit thing is its a focus changer. Get people to stop focusing on what is and get them focusing on what isn’t.
Can’t keep people focused on what is in California as what actually is, well it sucks.
Still gets me to smiling how Pasadena Phil is so busy lambasting all of us in other states about every issue under the sun as IF in his state he has made some kind of positive impact with is perpetual grumpiness.
On January 31st, 2012 at 1:32 pm, rambler said:
I propose California being split into two states:
Old California consisting of Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Hayward, Alameda, Contra Costa and Sacramento Counties.
New California consisting of everything else.
New California would be a great state if it dumped Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Berkeley and Sacramento.
http://www.digital-topo-maps.com/county-map/california-county-map.gif
– from the book, Real Men Don’t Eat Quiche, published in 1982
At least he’s consistent. He’s just as whacked out now as he was 30 years ago.
What a damn shame California has become. Back in the 1980s, I would’ve lied, cheated, stolen, killed to get to live in the Golden State; maybe a couple of stints at the Presidio of Monterey spoiled me.
But now… it just tears the heart out to see what it’s become: Mexifornia.
Just a damn, damn shame.
I think they’ll have plenty of riders– once people stop buying cars because the mandated electric car quota kicks in. Unless they start giving away a Volt with every SUV or pickup purchased.
You’re probably aware that there is a proposal something like that being advanced by someone in Riverside county. He’s revived the idea of a North California and a South California with a twist: LA county would be carved out of South California and left with the North. That way we won’t have too many liberals or a Governor Villaragosa.
Hmm. Come to think of it, Pasadena is in the liberal LA county.
Forget Oregon, Washington, and Hawaii.
They are CaliforniaLite
May I recommend Oklahoma or Texas?