TERROR IN THE SKIES (CONTINUED)
Regarding Annie Jacobsen’s intriguing article, I just got word from Dave Adams of the Federal Air Marshals Service (FAM). Adams confirmed that he spoke to Annie Jacobsen, was quoted accurately in her story, and confirmed some of the basic facts outlined in her article (there were 14 Syrians on the flight; they were questioned by the Los Angeles Police Department, FBI, FAM, and so on; they were a musical band).
Update: I agree with many readers that some skepticism is still warranted, especially if this is the same Annie Jacobsen that wrote the piece. (Update to the update: James Taranto notes that the Jungian Annie lives in Toronto, not Los Angeles). Another quick thought: Building a bomb in mid-air using 14 operatives to take down one plane seems like a rather inefficient means of terrorism. If al Qaeda has been driven to such pathetic plots, maybe (no thanks to Norm Mineta) we really are getting somewhere.
Update II: By the way, my friend and Philly talk show host Michael Smerconish was the first to pick up on the idiotic policy that Jacobsen mentions which punished airlines for pulling over more than two Arab/Muslim passengers for secondary questioning. More info here, including Smerconish’s testimony about what 9/11 commissioner and former Navy Secretary John Lehman told him.
Update III: Good discussion at Ace of Spades and via Volokh, Jeff the Baptist thinks the Syrians were just praying. Hmmmm. Thomas Galvin had his own experience observing a passenger with “an oblong object wrapped in cloth.” Via Daniel Drezner, here’s the February 2004 London Observer article on intelligence related to mid-air bomb plots. David Horowitz had an eyebrow-raising flight experience last month.
Update IV: The always incisive Michele Catalano writes:
If this story is real and these men were what Annie thought they were, it’s a frightening story, indeed. Enough to make me start doing that nervous twitch everytime a plane flies a bit too low over my house. I thought I got rid of that twitch.
The more I write about it (as I’m reading other bloggers’ reactions to the story while I compose this), the more I think, why not? They keep saying they’re going to do something, why would I think this story is not true?
Again, I don’t want it to be true. The implications are not something I can let my brain chew on right now. Head, meet sand.
But what if? What if they were making a dry run? You can’t really protect the country by dealing in what ifs. So what’s the solution? Or is there one? And what do you make of this story?
Update V: Just a side note. The air marshals’ spokesman, Dave Adams, was a bit defensive in confirming the story, which seems to lend unsettling credence to Jacobsen’s account, in my opinion. Also, I’ve been trying to get a hold of the p.r. reps for WomensWallStreet.com. A receptionist said they’ve been swamped with calls since this morning. Am hoping this means my colleagues in the mainstream media are digging into the story, too.
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A band? I read that article, and I can’t begin to fathom how the behavior of these individuals squares with the notion that they were just a harmless band travelling to a gig.
I would also think that if Underperformin’ Norman (Mineta)’s policies are still in place that it becomes incumbent upon air travelers to use the bathroom as often as possible when they see this sort of thing, and to alert the crew to check the bathrooms (including the disposal bins) for evidence of stashed contraband (or to do so themselves).
It is sad that we have to think this way because the Feds fear complaints of discrimination more than they care about the safety of innocent American citizens.
If I had been on that plane, I would have raised so much stink they would have landed at the nearest airport to arrest ME!
Here’s the thing - there were multiple marshals on the flight - which is not SOP. They were being watched, and they were questioned.
And a new policy resulted.
Homeland Security is not just a joke.
A band, eh? Wasn’t it a “band at a wedding party” that we blew up as a confirmed terrorist way-station? A band… a band of thugs is more like it.
TIP FOR MIDDLE EASTERN TRAVELERS IN US - Don’t act like a jackass when you are flying on our planes because if you pull that crap on any plane I’m on I WILL call you out and ask what your problem is!
Well given that these folks may have been practicing assembling a bomb on-board I am not sure exactly what a Federal Marshall who is sitting there waiting for something to happen will do? Flap his arms when the plane blows up and he finds himself at 30,000 feet with no airplane surrounding him?
Clearly this group should have been stopped prior to boarding and been given a very thorough going over. Then when the behavior that alarmed everyone else aboard started occurring the Federal Marshals should have sprung into action by the simple act of getting up like I might do and say hey Fellas whats up? The Federal Government doesn’t act like it is on our side….
Remember a line from Bruce Willis’s movie…. Right now you are part of the problem, stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution.
Pierre Legrand
What about the other problems outlined in regards to security? A guy can pack his prosthetic leg with explosives and security is not even allowed to check? Can’t look at someone’s orthopedic shoes? If you checked out 4 Arabs getting on the plane, you are now not allowed to check out the next twelve? You reached your quota?
Who is to say this “band” wasn’t testing the waters for future terrorists? Were they innocent but just liked scaring and intimidating a planeful of “infidels”?
How many questions can you ask in a single post?
Blaster — what new policy?
Someone should have used the most effective weapon to be used in this war…. What would these guys have done if someone would have stood up with a video camera and bgan filming them up close….. The rats would run from the sunlight.
This is a tough issue for me. I’ve given up thinking that 911 would fundamentally change the way we think and the way we act. Our fear of insulting one person, or small groups of our society has caused our government to disregard the safety of the majority.
In this case, it may be that the feds didn’t want to confront the persons in question and create an incident where the marshalls had to blow their cover. Who knows, other than the fact that we are going to get attacked soon, and it will be big. We’re just leaving ourselves too many holes.
Once again, if this is Bush’s fault because he won’t put someone in charge with some stones, his butt should be out on the street in November. The alternative just isn’t plausible, however. What do American loving folks do?
The new policy about not congregating in the aisles - it’s in the article.
Seems to me the whole thing was a setup on both ends. The Syrians were pulsing the system, we were trying to get some intel on what they were up to.
To me, this didn’t sound like a dry run so much as an actual mission where they pulled the plug because they sensed a problem. Or maybe I’m reading too much into the “finger drawn across the neck and mouthing the word no” gesture by one of the Syrians described in the article.
Did they check it out? “They had been hired as musicians to play at a casino in the desert.”
Blaster, the policy mentioned in the article preventing groups from congregating around plane lavatories and in the aisles.
In 25 years of being associated to the music business, I’m not sure that I’ve ever seen a “band” of Syrians. Has anybody? Assuming they somehow were, what possible US market would hire Middle Eastern musicians these days? This story is too carefully recorded and documented — and the preflight apathy and postflight hysteria too consistent with reality — to have too many comforting conclusions. If we know anything about America it’s that we’ll have to learn the hard way, probably more than once, before leftist self-haters move aside and allow adults to take care of hard issues.
The day this happened there was a warning issued for several airports, including both LAX and Detroit,looking for Pakistanis with rope burns from the Al-Qaeda training camps. Here’s a link: link
That kind of confirms Blaster’s comment above about surveillance being in place.
Michelle, thanks for your work helping to confirm this.
The other possibility is that this is a diversion. “Get the Americans to think the attack will be via an airplane again so they focus there. Then we focus on somewhere else.”
Streiber: F**K the videotape! Someone should have risen and called “Let’s Roll!” They should have been taken, searched and seatbelted into their seats - harmless - until the pilot put down at the nearest field to offload them into custody. Any American that sits there waiting for an Air Marshal to ‘SHAZAM’ will eventually have to charge to take out the one who exits the John with the Bomb around his chest. Never forgive, never forget - have the lessons of 9.11 been forgotten?
I don’t know how to say “no” in Arabic, but I’m pretty sure it’s not “no.” Probably he was mouthing out something else.
Just like “racial profiling”, good police work is not necessarily discrimination.
Well I guess that the government and country are going to PC us all to death. It is like the issue of racial profiling or non issue in this country/ I am tired of it..19 middle eastern men took down the towers and the rest of the 9-11 events but don’t target middle eastern men for extra scrutiny….that is like don’t pul over a carload of afircan american teens in belar late at night…WHEN does logic over power political correctness?
I have a feeling that the only reason the were allowed to board and act suspiciously without interuption was because they were being watched.
I would bet there was one Air Marshall for every Syrian on that plane.
Actually, the rule about not congregating has been in place for two years - at least intermittently (or maybe an airline rule). You are also not allowed to use the lavatory in first class if you are flying in coach (again, enforced sporadically).
Well, once again Homeland Security has made it clear that my personal security is only going to be protected by me. I have already drastically lowered my amount of air travel (as much because it’s such a bloody pain as because it’s become such a bloody pain with no increase in actual security that I can see). But I tell you, airlines and Dept. of Transportation, if I fly this year, and I see a bunch of Arab men about to board the same plane, I AM NOT GETTING ON AND I WILL HAPPILY HAVE A SHOUTING MATCH WITH YOU ABOUT IT IN FRONT OF ALL THE OTHER PASSENGERS. Because YOU will not check these men out quietly and confidentially, you force me to be a public d*ckhead about it. But that sure beats being a small quantity of DNA in the ashes of the U.S. Capitol or Disney World, so it’s what I’m willing to do until YOU become willing to take serious steps to protect me.
I traveled recently on a SW Airlines flight from BWI to DFw. An announcement was made that passengers would not be allowed to “congregate around the lavatory.” I wonder if this was as a result of situation described in the article. It was terrifying to read I can ony imagine what it was like on that flight. Why hasnt the national press picked up on this???? I fear we will have another 9/11 if we dont use common sense on these issues. Balderdash to political correctness- we are talking about people’s live here!
If her story is true, I think it’s pathetic that once again the law abiding, average American is living in fear for their lives while certain protected individuals and groups are free to act in an aggressive and suspicious way. How sad is it that husbands and wives were frozen stock still in their seats, some of the women openly crying, while these allegedly unfriendly and purposefully threatening people blatantly broke FAA regulations?
I have been asking this question for some time, and I apply it more generally than just terrorism: When did the badguys stop being afraid of us, and we started being afraid of them? Time was that citizens could count on law enforcement to protect the community, and people of a clearly suspicious or antisocial nature were always on the defensive, always off balance, always on their guard and compelled to prove their good intentions. If a deranged bum rolled into town and started eying the kids as they got out of school, or started following the elderly and the defenseless around, loudly demanding a handout, the cops would show up, grab the guy, drive him to the edge of town, and throw him out of the vehicle, only occasionally coming to a complete stop. If the bum didn’t get the message, he’d get tossed in the stir, maybe roughed up a bit, and finally thrown back out of town again. If he kept it up, a citizen would finally just beat the crap out of him and the cops wouldn’t blink an eye.
The message? We of this community have built a life here. We play by the rules and watch out for each other. Don’t pretend like we don’t know what you’re up to. You’re a dangerous, threatening person, a wolf walking among our women, children and elderly, and we’re not going to wait around for you to do something before we take action to protect ourselves. You are on notice. We are NOT going to sit around until you do something terrible and justify our suspicions.
This applies to the terrorists. It applies to drug dealers and addicts in our towns. It applies to drunk drivers, and juvenile delinquents, and every kind of criminal, thief and miscreant out there. You are innocent until proven guilty. But we are not naive. Go peddle your slavish devotion to tolerance, no matter the cost, somewhere else.
You and I and all our fellow citizens have worked too hard to let some miserable, self-afflicted dirt bags take it away in an apocolyptic burst of hatred and misplaced frustration. Don’t put up with people like Mineta, living in their fantasy worlds, forcing you to tolerate that bum on the street right up to the day he pushes your daughter onto the subway tracks, or leaves your wife in a ditch by the river. Protect what’s worth protecting, and don’t apologize.
I don’t want to hear another story, not one more, about able bodied men and women crying in their seats while others threaten and frighten them with impunity. Stand up and fight.
Michelle–re your update:
I thought the same thing about the dream-magic Jungian psychology Annie Jacobsen. But Google image search on Annie Jacobsen reveals a different-looking blonde, younger, no bangs, as the author for Women’s Wall Street. (We’ve been discussing this on Ace of Spades HQ–at http://blog.mu.nu/cgi/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=36006).
Wait a second . . . musicians? On their way to the gig ? . . . Excuse me, but I think these guys may have been getting stoned in the bathroom. McDonalds bag? Empty McDonalds bag? Hello? Isn’t it obvious? They were taking turns on the ol’ smokeless-pipe-in-the-bathroom-exhaling-through-the-wet-paper-towel trick. Musicians! From Syria! They cook some mean hash in that neck of the woods. Bet you dollars to doughnuts the guy kept his stash in the funny shoe. I had a buddy in high school who kept his in his prosthetic arm. It would have been unthinkable to ask him to take it off — and he knew it. Musicians! Stoners!
“inefficient means of terrorism”
14 terrorists/murderers blow up one plane and what happens to:
1) the US elections
2) revenue for the airline industry
3) US Policies that affect terrorism
plus, remember, each gets 72 virgins.
I don’t think Six-Sigma practices are going to be part of Al-Qaeda’s operations anytime soon.
With 14 guys, the odds are much more against a United Fl 93 response from passengers. With the way the seats are laid out, once the aisles are covered, passenger response movement is severly restricted. The large numbers could also be their new tactic.
But the real question is: How were 14 guys, with SYRIAN passports and ONE WAY tickets, so blithely allowed onto a plane out of DETROIT? The border with Canada is wide open.
If this was a test of in-flight security, it showed very poor judgement by the TSA and the FAM’s due to their taking such a risk with innocent lives in the air and on the ground.
Oh great, the DoT has a new policy - no congregating in the aisles or restrooms.
So no little girls or grandmothers may line up for the wee wee room.
No 6′6″ red blooded American guys can congregate in the aisles to prevent deep vein thrombosis.
What’s the quota on this 2, 3, 4? What violates the rule? If the quota for Middle Eastern Male Thugs is 2, does that mean that if 3 or more “congregate” you cannot ask them to kindly sit down?
If 2 were searched pre-flight, does that mean that Middle Eastern Male Thugs are off limits in flight and may “congregate” as they please while old American women and little kids are required to return to their seats and hold it?
You can be sure of this, if I am on an aircraft and if I see more than one Middle Easterner go to the head, then I will “congregate” right there and check out the can.
If I see Middle Eastern Males on a flight passing communications or signals - particularly of the throat slitting kind - I will be the first to accost them with a loud - “Hey Bubba, what are you up to?” I’d maybe even recruit some other red blooded American males to kind of act as a friendly companion to each Middle Eastern Male Thug to watch every move the “suspect” makes.
Remember Todd Beamer. We need to take charge - because Norm Minetta won’t. Let’s Roll.
I’m still skeptical of this story. It’s too tight.
Also, Michelle is it judicious to link to the “Annie Jacobsen” in Toronto in such a capricious manner? I’m sure whe will not get bombarded with e-mails.
Yes, but what if during questioning they were all “tagged”? We can be sure they were all photographed and taped for voice analysis (past and future). I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a catch and release to track the whole thing to its source scenario.
Piranha - If you traveled much you’d realize how much pigeon english has spread. ‘No’ is understandable in any language.
I would thought that in this day and age, whomever is sponsoring the Syrians tour would have coordinated with the airlines in advance. They would have prepped the security to receive them and advised the flight crew of their status in this country. The pilot could have made a general announcement to the passengers requesting that they welcome the group of Syrians aboard the flight as they made their way to Los Angeles for a performance.
Devout Muslims pray to Mecca 5 times a day. Syrian bandmembers on tour of North America, on a 4.5 hour flight crossing numerous time zones very well might have been confused about prayer times and the direction of Mecca and the bathroom may have been the only area spacious enough to prostrate in so they took turns.
I’m just pulling that out of thin air of course, but it seems more likely than any of the terrorist scenerios. Bombs are generally located because they require chemicals to explode. Even if the bomb is in 14 different pieces the chemicals are required. Yeah you can split up the chemicals and bring them aboard seperately but when Security is forcing folks to drink breast milk and such its unlikely you’re gonna get the stuff aboard any easier in 14 pieces than you could by trying 14 times and shooting the odds. Oh, and its not hard for terrorists to get fake ID. Why do it with Syrian passports, passports guaranteed to raise alarm bells?
Does anyone know who hired 14 syrians to play music at a nightclub in the desert?
the “no congregating in the aisles” policy was from early spring in 2002. it is not always enforced. but it is not new as of two weeks ago, which is the date of the events in that article.
so they were being watched–so what? if they were arrested in LAX, it’s not as if they wanted to keep surveilling them. so why let them spend ALL 4 HOURS on the plane?
the plane should have been grounded.
14 does seem like more than they’d need to do a mission. It could have been a training session–perhaps one or two experts were training/demonstrating for multiple groups?
Thank you for being on this, Michelle. I hope the TSA/FBI know a lot more than is getting into the press.
Wow! Scary stuff! I can only hope that in the event that I am ever on a flight that is having “trouble”,Breaker,Fox,et al,are also on it!!
The terrorists don’t even need to bring a bomb on board. The plane has all they need except matches.
The 14 men all ask for vodka as a drink. They take it back to the lavatory and secrete it somewhere in the lavatory. Last man in takes out the bottles, stoppers the sink, puts wads of towling in the sink then dumps the vodka in. They then just light the thing.
The most helpful thing would be if the guy with the brace had secreted either thermite or phosphorus into the loo as well. That would take an alochol fire to the next level. Capable of burning thru the plane’s hull and causing deompression.
The point is modern life is replete with opportunites for mayhem. I also agree with the reader who made the Six Sigma comment. It would only take one incident now matter how inefficient to bring the travel industry to a halt again.
What if that plane had landed with 14 dead Syrians and 200 passengers who all just said, “We Don’t know? Guess they all had heart attacks.”?
Sometimes I think that is what it is going to come to. We are going to have to protect ourselves. Our government won’t.
rurpecht,
I can’t believe they would be able to prostrate themselves in an airliner bathroom.
The recent flights I’ve been on, the bathrooms are so small that I could barely bend over to pull my pants up without leaning on the door. There is no place to kneel and prostrate, only a place to sit.
Re: building a bomb in mid-air as inefficient terrorism: What if the “bomb” is chem/dirty and intended to detonate over a heavily populated area?
Do we check carry-ons for radiation?
rurpecht - the fact of the matter is the suspects were acting extremely suspiciously. I understand analyzing this from every angle, but yours is simply not feasible.
John M - Please refrain from handing any idiot who can read a recipe for disaster. I know if someone wanted, he/she could find the kind of info. you provided on the web among other sources. But this story, sensational or not, gives me the f’ing creeps and I would just as soon you not provide details of how to blow up a plane.
Fox - AMEN!
Band of Syrians.
Flock of Seagulls.
Coincidence?
If I had been on that plane, and Norman Mineta had been, also, I would have done nothing. “For the greater good.”
Bob
rurpecht — “Syrian bandmembers…very well might have been confused about prayer times and the direction of Mecca and the bathroom may have been the only area spacious enough to prostrate in so they took turns.”
what airline do you fly? spacious bathrooms? what are you, a midget? how could one possibly prostrate in an airplane bathroom? c’mon!
The comedian Richard Jenni once said, “There are two things I hate, racial profiling and Arabs on my flight.”
Adam, please, no stereotyping. Ruprecht might be “vertically challenged.” Just at the TSA are not mental midgets but “logically challenged.”
Are the PC police gone yet?
Mike in Cinci,
I think the Syrians were speaking among themselves. I doubt very much that they would use pidgin English, with the threat of discovery, when their native language presumably is Arabic.
But then again, I’m just a landbound yokel.
The scenario might work something like this….
Weapons or a bomb are brought aboard in pieces, they are assembled inside the plane. Then whatever it is brought out to either threaten the passengers into submission or to use as a means of killing the passengers. 14 - 20 Arabs are aboard to provide security against those of us who will stand up and take the murderous thugs down. Checkmate, the plane is taken over and run into some target, preferably Norman Mineta’s house.
Thoughts on the overall story. If someone were campaigning for President that was to the Right of the President, ie: willing to profile, willing to smash collaboraters in this country, willing to declare war and fight with all of our considerable might I would drop Bush in a Heartbeat. If the TSA was actually allowing these fools onboard to watch them, well let me be clear, I will be flying Southwest to Las Vegas in August and if I were to find out that they allowed 14 Arabs to fly with my Wife 3 Children and myself so that they could see what their plan was…it wouldnt be pretty. I would get arrested just to get on the news to make a stink about that sort of utter stupidity.
What if they were assembling a dirty bomb or worse?
Pierre Legrand
Even if this article does turn out to be a hoax, which is still my view, it has still provided a useful service by focusing discourse on what is the # 1 campaign issue this year - US security from terrorism. Thus, one should take away from this discourse thess salient questions:
“Who, the President or John Kerry, will better be able to protect us (and that includes utilizing the Patriot Act, profiling, etc.) and who is better able to wage a war on Islamic terrorism?”
Echoing Mayor Koch, THESE are the ONLY pivotal issues of this campaign.
Ah! The price of true democracy.
I’ve read the article and some of the updates. From where I’m sitting on my keyboard,the govs are unfortunately stuck between two sh!tholes.
Damn if they’ll profile,damn if they don’t.
What I would like to see,if the syrians were profiled,how many of the other pasengers would raise the stink and start attacking the Patriot act?
IMHO,the airlines/crew and the Air Marshals did the right thing by keeping a close eye on them and be ready.
I’d prefer if the possible terrorism are closely watched to learn than just profile them up front and learn nothing. Fear is not the answer to terrorism,learning and acting before they do is what we ought to aim for.
JMHO.
Regards to all.
When questioned after the flight by the FBI, I hope these men were asked “Why Do You Hate Us?”
Because it is America’s fault and much more important to not offend those who are out to commit murder against innocent Americans than to insure the safety of our citizens.
[/typical liberal view]
Some very literal folks here. I was not speaking about prostrating in the bathroom, of course that’s unreasonable, but it is possible outside of the bathroom where folks in the past would wait for their turn. Often their is an area for the stewardesses to fix drinks and prepare the food for the cart near to the bathrooms. All of these would be better than doing that in the aisleway or in your seat.
The story in question doesn’t provide the level of detail to know the floorplan around the bathroom area, just that they went back there.
What a typical snapshot of paranoid, small minded america.
Get a grip man, and get that fundamentalist idiot out of the white house!
I think it’s a mistake to presume that the purpose of the bomb is to destroy the aircraft, it’s more likely to be used to intimidate passengers and crew. The plane as a weapon will have more effect (globally) than it’s destruction.
In this scenario marshalls are useful because they can kill/disable bomb carrier(s), removing the key threat and allowing for the ‘crowd control’ to be dealt with, either by more marshalls or the passengers themselves.
Gordon, are you the same dimwit-I-mean-dhimmi who infests Little Green Footballs on an all-too-regular basis?
I agree with many that the passengers seemed far too passive when confronted with what was obviously a suspicious situation. Just remember - intimidation works both ways. If it had been me, anytime two or more congregated in front of the bathrooms, I would have joined them in the wait. As they made their way up and down the aisles I would have realized that I really, really needed something out of the overhead that just couldn’t possibly wait - and if it slowed down their stroll to the lavatory, well to bad. And if one of them gave me a cold glare I would have given it back measure for measure. Nothing illegal, but certainly aggressive/assertive enough to give notice that I wouldn’t be cowed into fear and passivity and that I was very aware of what was going on. Like animals in the wild you have to stake out your territory and show that you’re going to be a fierce opponent and not an easy conquest.
If the regular people that are being caught in profiling would put their damn community leaders to the task in their own communities and tell the ragbags to STOP, or just take care of the matter themselves (community policing) by stringing up the radicals, racial profiling won’t be an issue at all.
re: When did the badguys stop being afraid of us, and we started being afraid of them?
It began with the multi-million dollar lawsuits filed by tort lawyers (John Edwards is a prime example) for some imagined injustice. The bad guys can almost act with impunity because they know the threat of a lawsuit prevents any proactive move by the government or a corporation. We can no longer (if we really ever could) rely on the authorities to protect us in situations like that on NWA Flight 327.
I am afraid there are more stories out there like this one that for some reason the media is not picking up on…..here’s one that I will try my damndest to get more info because of the specific date and time.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/9155602.htm?1c
14 guys. Could have been two teams traveling together. Or maybe six to take over the galleys simultaneously and cover the cockpit camera, another six to provide muscle throughout the cabin when the heroes rush them, two to blow the cockpit door and take out the flight crew. I wonder what the drill is when you lose communication with the cabin?
Praying in the aisles beside the loo - don’t think so. That would have been noted.
Foreign band having a travel agent to make security arrangements - maybe, maybe not. Where’s the playbill for the band - where were they scheduled?
Rather than reply Let’s Roll, fake a medical emergency to get the plane on the ground. Less risky.
Still suspicious of this story. However, kudos to Michelle for running down this story and trying to get to the truth.
This article does one thing; it returns the focus, jarringly so, on what the issues should be this Fall - who is better able to protect us - the President or Kerry? Just consider that Kerry will be indebted to all those who would want to eliminate or greatly restrict the Patriot Act.
They mouthed the word “no”. How conventient that they started speaking English!
I don’t doubt that this story is true in that there was a group of Syrian bandmembers travelling on a flight and it aroused suspicion (rightly so). Bit this story has so many obviously-false embellishments that you’d have to be a bigot or an idiot to take it too seriously!
My problems with this are many, but chief among them is this: the apparent lack of status of my breasts.
Story: I am a 5′3″ tall white 30 yr old woman. I am endowed by my mother and father with certain attributes, not freakishly large, nor small, but probably bigger than average. In St. Louis, I was for lack of a better term, “felt up” by a female security person when the underwire of my bra made her little wand beep. I explained that my bra had an underwire. “I’m going to have to touch you” she said. “Get your jollies,” I said and rolled my eyes. JUST TO BE CLEAR, I did NOT enjoy this. Not even a little bit. But I took it in the name of safety.
But now I learn that some guy’s leg has a protected status that my freakin’ breasts lack?
This is wrong on so many different levels.
One other thought to put out there (gentlemen, please do not take offense) if I had been on this flight I would have “accidently” elbowed one of these gentlemen in the stones as he walked by just to see what kind of reaction I got. If you act suspicious, I’m gonna take a cheap shot. Sorry. My life is worth it.
I don’t know if this was an actual threat or not. Either way, if I’d been on that flight I would have been concerned.
Elizabeth’s comment says it all. There’s no need to jump up and beat on people for going to the bathroom, but there are lots of things those passengers could have and should have done to disrupt what they saw as something potentially dangerous. And if Air Marshalls were in fact watching them and would rather take care of it themselves then they can quietly make that known to the passengers.
It’s a minor point, but to address an earlier question, the Arabic word for “no” is “la.” The mouthing would look fairly similar, unless one watched very closely.
Do we check carry-ons for radiation?
There are radiation detectors in airport security, yes. A friend of mine who had recently received radiation therapy had to carry a special card with her to explain it when she set the radiation detectors off on her trip to England.
If a worried passenger had faked a medical emergency that forced the plane to land, I wonder how many passengers would have voluntarily remained on board to finish the flight.
My guess is “14″.
Short of a medical emergency, I like the idea of a concerned passenger developing a case of “need to go to the bathroom right NOW”, followed immediately by a bad case of constipation.
Ted,
I don’t know how true it all is either, but the fact that they said “no” in English is not anything to hang your hat on. If these guys were terrorists, it does not mean they did not go to UCLA for four years, that they haven’t lived among us for most of their lives. In fact, it seems obviously beneficial to speak English, even fluently, if you want to accomplish certain things in an English speaking country like the US.
And given past events, it is small minded and, in fact, bigotted to assume that anybody who thinks this is worth serious investigation is either an idiot or a bigot. They did it once before, they want to do it again…and “they” are not white, or black, or hispanic or asian. “They” are Arabs. Period. Not all Arabs are terrorists, but in our current historical position, terrorists are Arabs. To give greater scrutiny, additional security measures and higher suspician to Arabs is not racist. It is intelligent. And anyone who doesn’t take it seriously is, as you put it, an idiot.
First point: instapundit mentioned the James Woods story regarding the terrorist dry run before Sept 11th. Seems to me it might be useful to note the delay between the dry run and Sept 11th. The link Insty has simply says “several weeks before the 9/11 attacks”. Can anyone narrow that down a bit?
Second: The question asked a few posts above is a very good one: Has anyone followed up to check the Band’s engagement that they were supposedly hired for? Did it check out?
If it does, any chance we can find out how long the engagement was for, does this band have a good reputation, do they have any other engagements in the US? Who hired them? Why would they hire a Syrian band? (especially if they had to fly in from outside the US? Wouldn’t it have to be a VERY special band to go to that much expense?) Did they fly into the US for this one engagement or are they already resident in the US?
Gordon,
How can you type with your head buried in the sand? Are you denying that islamists are in this country and want to strike us? Are you asserting that J Francois Kerry will be a better Commander-in-Chief? Wow, this was an interesting conversation until you cut that brain fart of a comment. Turn on the fan.
Would be 1nterestng to see of any of our d1ll1gent feds had the band actually PLAY some musc.
You really think so, Ted? FOURTEEN Syrian…what? The Flyin’ Carpet Big Brass Band? The world’s largest Arabic art-rock stage show? The Mideast 14 play Manilow? The Three-and-a-Half-Quartets perform Coltrane’s Greatest Hits?
I mean, give me something to go on here. With all this ensemble horsepower, what kind of confirming instrumentation spilled out of cargo when they landed in LA? Couple a pianos?
And as far as the meaning of “no,” if said minstrels were playing their extended encore tour here in the US, flying one-way without an apparent American manager (hello!) between two of the top 10 or 15 largest US cities, using one-way tickets (indicating variable-length stopovers) do we really think the simplest word in the English language would be beyond their intellectual grasp?
I must know “no” in half a dozen languages…bet you do too.
“Bit this story has so many obviously-false embellishments that you’d have to be a bigot or an idiot to take it too seriously!”
Consider me either a bigot or an idiot.
IF people are flying as a group, why are their seats dispersed throughout the plane? I’m sorry, but if Islam is a religion of peace, then the supposed majority who are peaceful have failed to rein in the supposedly small fraction who are fanatical. Until they take care of business, PC be damned. We gotta do what we gotta do
well as usual you people are a bunch of conspiracy-theory oriented kooks.
Did you ever stop to think that they were actually a BAND?
Did you ever stop to think that DEtroit, Michigan has one of the largest populations of Arab-Americans in the nation?
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps an Arab family in LA hired the band for a wedding?
I lived in Akron, Ohio and my nice arab employers hired a band from DETROIT to come play at their daughter’s wedding, that band had like 10 people in it.
DId you ever stop to think how foolish you all seem when you talk so tough but then act like scared little girls about flying, arabs, etc.?
Ever stop to think that almost every Arab may enjoy playing “let’s scare the crap out of these racist/ignorant red neck crackers” by acting conspiritorial–like those guys at the Georgia Dennys back in 2002?
get a clue
you people are acting like such pussies since 9/11 that you are hardly worthy of the title “AMERICAN.”
Ann Coulter has been complaining about this policy since 9-11… and has been accused of being a racist every time she mentions it.
Political correctness, preventing profiling, willn undermine any number of security intiatives we institute.
Love him or hate him, Savage has a point when he says Leftism is a mental disorder. Political Correctness — the national disease that’ll almost certainly one day contribute to the loss of hundreds or thousands more lives on US soil — is the public, political version of the exact same evil wherein individuals intentionally harm others for mere reason of keeping up their own pet appearances.
PC may begin with youthful ignorance and idealism, but it matures into an insidious form of narcissism that will stop at nothing to force its own intolerance upon another, even if it destroys the victim. Fully developed it is supremely arrogant, intentionally harmful, evil, and it is therefore mentally sick.
Leftism isn’t a valid political position; it’s the social abscess mentally disordered people gravitate toward so as to pilfer from, oppress, endanger, and even kill others.
Ayatrollah, et al:
The article said they were going to perform
->at a casino
-> in the desert.
->They were flying into LA and out of Long Beach.
There are casinos in the desert near LA in Palm Springs and the Coachella valley. Matter of fact, I think those are the only casinos, in the desert, near LA.
I’m on it.
In regards to the mouthing - as has been mentioned previously, the arabic for “no” is “la”, or “la’a” for an emphatic no.
However, stand in front of a mirror, and say the word “la”, and then say “no”, the mouthing is not the same.
It is worth noting that the hebrew for “no” is “lo” (as in ‘lo and behold’).
Hey, “american”, they were travelling on Syrian passports! If they were hired out of Detroit, how long had they been in the country? It is entirely possible they were a band, and there is nothing to this except ignorant fools on an airplane (I’m talking about the Syrians). However, if they were simply enjoying “scare the redneck”, then they were asking for a beat down.
If there is an announcement that there may be some bad people on the loose, and my neighbor decides he thinks it’s funny to lurk in the bushes outside my house that night - he will get a couple of ounces of lead dramatically inserted into his body somewhere. And he will deserve it.
Lunacy. Hysteria. Get Real.
A smuggled SA-7 fired by someone from the end of a runway is far more efficient. There are hundreds of commercial airports, thousands of fields and roof tops to fire from.
Using 14 people to “blow up” a single airplane is stupid, unless the nefarious purpose was not to take down the plane but the air transport system by creating hysteria, fear of flying, forcing additional delays and hassle from even more idiotic security.
There was nothing wrong with pre-911 security. It took them 8 years of careful, dedicated planning to do what they did. The terrorists were very careful not sneak anything that was not allowed on board. What was wrong were the rules of engagement when they took over the plane. The rules assumed a hostage scenario. We know better now. It won’t happen again, that way. Even if the rules and procedures had not changed, it wouldn’t happen again that way.
When, and if, terrorists attack again it will be some place we are not expecting. They won’t hijack a plan again, because they know that won’t work a second time.
If there were multiple Air Marshalls on board then there were multiple loaded pistols ready to shoot anyone doing anything overtly aggressive including shooting through a flight attendant if necessary.
If you are a Muslim planning to hijack a plane you’ve got to know that the odds of neutralizing all the passengers and armed Air Marshalls is slim to none.
However if these savages manage to pull off another 9/11 style attack the propaganda value for al-Qaeda is enormous.
I’m guessing that in a real terrorist event a SM is going to get in front of the cockpit door with his/her gun drawn and shoot anyone who comes near no matter who they are.
This event sounds genuine to me and appears like a dry run for something bigger. Blowing up a plane in mid-air is not very effective given al-Qaedas intentions.
I think in this situation I would have done or said something to the Syrians even if it meant I’d probably be arrested for harrasment etc..
Count me as a leftie-bush hater who absolutely agrees that this PC refusal to single out people (Mideastern men and women) as being more likely to cause terrorism as wrong-headed in the extreme. Everytime I fly, it absolutely amazes me that they’ll pull over some little old lady from Iowa for secondary screening and let other people who, frankly, look like terrorists, go through.
Who knows if the story is true or not, it’s something we need to think about. A couple of months ago, as I went through security at the airport, I saw a very clean Arabic man just ahead of me. He had on a baseball hat and sunglasses, and was carrying only a newspaper. He looked to me like he was casing the place. These people have infinite patience–they’ll wait years before they strike.
Unfortunately, I think it’s only a matter of time.
I still doubt a good bit of this story too…as someone said over at freerepublic, 14 guys to assemble a bomb to take down one plane? That’s a pretty inefficient way to go…the terrorists would really have to be running out of options to do that.
Ron (posted upthread)-
We started being afraid of the enemy because trial lawyers have made it so the government or corporations are too afraid to make any pre-emptive moves?
Wha???? Huh???? Which corporations are out there dying to make preimptive moves to stop terrorism? Corporate citizens aren’t patriotic citizens. They exist only to make money. If their interests lie in stopping terrorism (say a responsible security company), then they’ll do it, if not (say a security company that can hire people more cheaply if they don’t have to do a criminal background check, i.e. most security companies), then they won’t - threat of terrorism or not. The trial lawyers don’t have anything to do with it. What, do you work for an insurance company or something, or has Edwards made you hate all trial lawyers (even Republican ones, there are many)?
hehe Hysteria, Lunacy, Get Real? Sure lets just fall asleep and let the bad men have fun killing us. While you believe that a takeover of a plane wont happen agaiin because the passengers wont allow it, a plane is still a marvelous weapons to aim at whatever you want to destroy. It is worth the effort to attempt…even the attempt accomplishes alot as far as disrupting our country. But a successful takeover, after all that has been done, will be devastating to our economy and to our self confidence.
I dont know how many Marshalls were on board but I hope they had a bunch because we can be sure that if those 14 were actual terrorists it would take a bunch to take them down. Especially if some of them had some sort of gas to disable those who attack them.
I tend to think this was a training run…
I tend to think its highly unlikely this was some sort of hoax put forth by Womans Wall Street Journal, one doesnt imagine throwing away millions of dollars in credibilty for a prank.
I tend to think that our government is just that dumb to allow questionable people aboard to see what they will do.
I tend to think that I have no problem admitting I am afraid, but that fear is not something that will disable me. Remember all sane people get scared, the brave ones saddle up for the fight anyway. My 3 children aboard would make me awfully brave.
I tend to think that the Terrorists view us as cowards and consider us beneath contempt, that will be their downfall.
I believe that Blogs will drive this story to be an embarrassment for the Bush administration that is as it should be. Norm Mineta is an embarrassment.
Pierre
I have very little faith in the TSA. I have written them twice to complain about the lack of security at KCI - where the person checking ID’s got mixed up and let several people through without checking - those are the only ID checks you get in Kansas City.
I have flown to Detroit 3 times this year. The last time, on my way home, one of the people who was supposed to be checking IDs just waved people thru - no checking - I was among those people, and when I went to the TSA to inform them that he was letting people thru without checking, they said that he was not a TSA person so they could not tell him what to do.
This is no exaggeration of the truth.
I asked for the TSA supervisor, he said, oh, he’ll take note of it.
Arggghhh!!!
I have documented numerous failures (I often fly every week) of security and sent them to TSA. They usually send a form email back that is apparently sent to anyone.
At the same time, I also saw a security person at KCI force a woman to take off her blouse in public because it was a ’shirt jacket’, and all jackets have to be removed. (Kansas City International is exempt from having TSA security - they are allowed to have rent-a-security - bad move).
The woman was in tears. She had only a camisole on underneath, and one could see everything.
The airport screening portion of Homeland Security is a terrifying mess.
For the record, lest my post above mislead you, I don’t think this is a hoax. I think this woman was genuinely frightened, I just think needlessly so. There’s a huge arab population around detroit and in Michigan anyway. It wouldn’t be abnormal to see that many arabs at once on a plane, whether from America or somewhere else.
Also, I don’t even think the next strike will be airplanes. Why do that, they have us spending billions of dollars a year on security in that industry. It’s a much harder target then it was three years ago. There are much softer targets - ports, sporting events, shopping malls, outdoor festivals (like Mardi Gras - totally easy target), protest marches of any stripe, ribbon-cutting ceremonies, regular traffic jams, bridges……I mean, the list goes on and on and on and if I keep typing it homeland security will be coming after me.
The thing is, we can’t walk around paranoid all the time. If you do that, then your life is still shattered from 9/11, and the terrorists are beating you every day. Being paranoid is bad, being vigilent is good, if you’re the type that can not go overboard with it…just being is best, though.
Does anyone know what kind of instruments Middle Eastern bands are likely to use and how large they are. Like are they small enough to fit in an overhead bag? Most professional musicians will not check their instruments. It seems odd that only 2 out of 14 noticeably had their instruments with them.
I think at the very least they were playing a sadistic game with the passengers and crew and they should not have been allowed to do that. They were able to play out their entire game, whatever it was, without being stopped.
Hey Real American
You are exactly what the terrorists are counting on. It is why they know they CAN do it again in the Post 9/11 era, because we have idiots like you that rally against any real measures to protect people. Screw you and your “I am more enlightened because I know some Arabs” attitude. You are just another ignorant liberal that is the enabler that might someday get my wife or child killed by some freaking Arab.
And I imagine that good, honest peaceful Arabs, that respect human life, (as most are) would be similarly nervous on that plane.
Here’s another thing to think about in regards to 14 guys hijacking one plane.
Sky marshalls use frangible bullets in their guns.
Frangible bullets don’t go through bodies, they stick with them.
I wonder if any of the guys mentioned in this story were strong enough to hold 150lbs of dead weight in front of them?
I tend to think that the government is taking away the dignity and rights of citizens in order not to offend Muslims. As long as my government has this attitude, I won’t fly. If everyone thought this way we wouldn’t have to put up with the danger of 14 Syrians acting like jerks on a plane.
Just a comment about the border with Canada being “WIDE OPEN”.
Well I don’t doubt it is easy to get around, but I recently spent two weeks in Canada (Vancouver) with a side trip to Seattle.
First as a kudos to the US, I’m from Philadelphia and the security in our airport is still much tighter than at other airports I’ve been to. By that I mean the screenings seem much more thorough than when I have been in Tampa, Atlanta and Detroit’s airports.
That said this whole border issue… Traveling into Canada the customs officials there wanted to see my various IDs, they wanted tickets… wanted to know where I was staying … if I had been there before… you name it. I’m not muslim by the way, don’t even look it. It was a very thorough questioning process and they actually looked myself and my fiancee directly in the eyes.
Traveling from Canada into the US (both by Plane back to Philly and my side trip to Seattle was by Bus) the US officials wanted to know about one thing, and one thing only - food (fruits, seeds, and veggies). They never took a second glance at my IDs, never asked for tickets or where I was staying. Or anything… they never looked at us very much and they just tried to keep the line moving. The US customs folks just seem largely overworked… most looked very very tired. (baggy, tired eyes and their speech was less confident.)
Maybe the West Coast is different. Although when I was in Detroit in 1998 and I travelled across to Windsor… going into Canada I saw a car having the seats ripped out at customs, so… I don’t think they are too shy about doing their job up there.
Anyway, for what it is worth I am just not buying that the US-CAN border is this rampant playland for muslim extremist.
Perfnerd, why do you suppose there have not been airliners shot down all over the world in the last couple of years, by Russian man-portable surface to air missiles such as the SA-7? We keep hearing periodically about how there are thousands of them out there.
Such missiles have not been used more frequently (and successfully) in terrorist attacks IMO because they are a lot more complicated to maintain and use than an AK-47, an RPG — or an improvised explosive device.
The military doesn’t refer to them as weapons “systems” for nothing. They require complicated and specialized batteries and cooling devices to work, and they also need to be “benched” frequently by competent technicians to verify the electronic circuitry is working. I think rough handling and transport will induce faults that are undetectable to the eye.
I wouldn’t be surprised to find that shady Russian arms dealers who traffic in these things even deliberately induce minor faults in them, to keep them from being fully functional. Remember the two that were fired at the Israeli airliner in Africa a while back, but didn’t detonate?
It’s not that fanatical Islamists are incapable of learning how to maintain them; it’s that most of them find learning such technical kills “beneath” them. Now if they were to get dedicated maintenance support from a rogue regime, it would be different, but it’s not surprising to me that even countries such as Syria or Iran would not find such support to be in their national interest.
The thing is that people have to think ahead of time what to do in these situations because at the moment this is happening we all tend to panic.
So think it through now — what would be an appropriate response to an event like this?
How about standing up and making an “embarrassing admission” –
“Excuse me everyone — I have a terrible case of constipation and diarrhea. I am going to the bathroom and may be in there for the rest of the flight. If anyone else has this affliction, maybe they should head to the bathroom RIGHT NOW. If any Americans need to use the bathroom, just knock and I’ll see what I can do. Sorry for the inconvenience.”
We have to start actually role playing what to do. Psychological studies show that people tend to try to ignore problems around them for fear of “making a fuss” and being embarrassed. Let’s not be embarrassed to death, people!
Given that these people were searched when they got off the plane and that nothing was found on them, they were innocent. In the country, at least for now, we presume people to be innocent until they are proven guilty. They had clean records, they had no guns, knives, or explosives on them, and yet you are all certain that they were terrorists.
If they didn’t have any explosives, that’s just because they were practicing! Are you all CIA agents? You sound like you’re ready to invade these folks based on no evidence. That sounds familiar.
Sean- I can’t speak for the rest of the commenters but I think that at best we can only treat Jacobsen’s article as a “story” and the individuals described therein as “characters.” The story is best used as a topic of debate to wit we may somehow come to a better understanding of what is to be done about airline security and racial-profiling and such.
The guilt or innocence here is irrelevant, to debate it, doubly so.
Regarding Kerry and the Patriot act as Colorado Conservative and Cabal of Yahoos brought up, I think it would be wise for you two to read up on exactly Kerry’s position on the patriot act.
Kerry voted for the patriot act. AND
Kerry is still for it!
From this great MSNBC article (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4839040/site/newsweek/):
“But in reality Kerry is not so far from Bush in his views on the Patriot Act. The Massachusetts senator claims he not only stands by his vote for the legislation, but that he authored most of the law’s money-laundering provisions and thinks some aspects of the act actually need strengthening (like improving intelligence information sharing). However, the two do differ on which provisions should be renewed, and which revised.”
The article then goes on to say that Kerry’s problem with the patriot act roots in its abuse for political espionage and such. In any case if you are strongly AGAINST the Patriot Act, John Kerry is not your ally here.
So sean, by your logic any real terrorists don’t even have to pretend they are not terrorists. In fact, they can just stand up and make an announcement…
“Excuse us folks. For the rest of this flight we will be practicing for future terrorist attacks. We will be honing our skills for circumventing your petty security procedures and ironing out our tactics for real attacks in the future. However, since we are not actually going to do anything to this particular plane, we are in violation of no law and should not be impeded in any way by you Satanist infidels. Allah is great and thank you for your support.”
They did not have to have anything on them. Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime sean, maybe if you got your information from someplace other than “Law & Order SVU” you would know that.
In fact, if this little incident serves no other purpose than to make the liberals go batsh!t about harassing Arab bands, then that would make Arab bands a failsafe cover for real terrorists later.
And many of you have taken to saying that this women just got nervous because there were several Arabs on her flight and are completely ommitting the extnesive and specific information regarding their suspicious behavior througout the flight. They did not act like a band, they acted like terrorists and so only a freaking idiot would not take notice.
Terrorists have proven one thing, they are very intelligent and they absolutley know how to make liberals jump like puppets on a string. They will manipulate you into helping their cause. Unwitting fools.
Walter,
Fair point. The character of the author is a hysterical soccer mom who quotes Coulter, a supporter of domestic terrorists. That makes the narrator unreliable, in my opinion. The narrator does a good job of interpreting evidence in such a way that each action of the arabs is further indication that they are terrorists. Only at the end of the story, when everyone lives, is it revealed that they did not commit any acts of terrorism, and that the narrator’s terror was internal.
As the senate intelligence committee recently revealed, the buildup to the Iraqi invasion was partly the result of group think by the CIA. People saw supporting evidence everywhere they looked for it and ignored or misinterpreted any evidence contrary to their ideas.
What does this mean in terms of airline security? IMO, the cops, and marshalls are doing their jobs. While “aware Americans” hold hands and shiver in fear, the rest of us get on and off of planes without bombs in our carry ons.
What I found persuasive was the sense of danger that Annie and her husband, as well as the flight crew felt. We have an instinctual sense of danger that we can’t always articulate, and a lot of it has nothing to do with race. The look in the eyes can trigger it.
With all the details that the author gave, I’d have been worried too, and it bothers me that the crew or the air marshalls didn’t just examine the bags and personal belongings this “band” was carrying. If they were using the lavatories for praying, they should have told the flight crew and shown them the prayer rugs and instruments in advance. If they get huffy, maybe they shouldn’t be here earning money.
Chris,
I am glad that the marshalls shook the suspicious arabs down. That’s their job. Since no arrests were made, and nothing came of it, we can be sure that these men were not terrorists. This administration has no problem jailing foreign nationals and calling them grave threats to our security. If these guys aren’t being molested in Guantanamo by now, then they must be clean, since our hair-trigger police would love to announce the capture of a terrorist cell.
Chris,
I find it amusing that you need to attack my character just because you disagree with my views. It’s too bad we’re not on the senate floor, I love a little dirty talk.
Re the “Update: I agree with many readers that some skepticism is still warranted, especially if this is the same Annie Jacobsen that wrote the piece.”
When I read that line earlier this morning (before updates 2 - 4) I thought it was a bit disingenuous to simply Google the name Annie Jacobsen and cast doubt onto her story by linking to AN Annie Jacobsen who writes about elves and unicorns. I was even going link to some some pretty racist stuff on a Star Trek Usenet site written by A Michelle Malkin to illustrate my point.
I wrote to the folks at Women’s Wall Street and received this reply:
“Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Absolutely NOT! Our Annie Jacobsen is absolutely not the same Annie Jacobsen at http://www.AnnieJacobsen.com. Annie will likely be appearing on a number of major new broadcasts starting on Monday, which will hopefully put this rumor to rest. Thank you again for informing us.”
Also, a quick thought on “another quick thought: Building a bomb in mid-air using 14 operatives to take down one plane seems like a rather inefficient means of terrorism.”
It’s quite possible the group is training together and would break into smaller groups before striking.
One “team” could fly ahead of the other, placing key items in the plane. If they weren’t detected the second team would assemble the components and strike, assuring that the whole team wasn’t caught if something went wrong on either leg.