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Comment pages: « 1 [2]

101. #101
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 3:43 pm, DJDrummond said:

     Paw Kettle: “Ma! Bring yer broom, and go pry J.J. away from that-there Quija board o’ his!

     “He’s channeling Uday & Qusay agin!”

102. #102
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 3:44 pm, Darleen said:

     Granted, I haven’t read all the comments here yet, so if this has been covered, my apologies.

     Both my parents were teens in Los Angeles at the time of Pearl Harbor. My father and I have discussed those times often. Due to the fact of Japanese spies, he agrees with FDR’s decision to move the Japanese community away from the coast; HOWEVER (huge “however”) he rails against the corruption that allowed the wholesale thievery of Japanese homes, farms and businesses.

     I look forward to reading your book (I just ordered it!)

103. #103
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 3:45 pm, Muslim in America said:

     I’m not Arab, but of Indian descent. Served in the early to mid 90s while at school.

     I have no problem whatsoever for being singled out for security, or whatever, at airports. My wife takes issue with it, but that’s only because she invariably shows up late for her flights. Same for security here in the city (I live in NYC) - whatever must be done must be done.

     I realize that internment will most likely not happen, but it is still chilling to contemplate the what-ifs, especially if you are one of the what-ifs.

     One major difference between WWII and now: then, we had a defined enemy, and so there was a clear demarcation of when the war would end. Now, with terrorism so nebulous, the War on Terror may go on indefinitely. Will internment do the same?

104. #104
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 3:48 pm, Bob said:

     “You may recall when the Japanese Imperial Army arrived in the city of Davao in the Phillipines on July 23, 1941…”

     The correct date was December 21, 1941. My mistype…..

105. #105
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 3:51 pm, DJDrummond said:

     Muslim In America, the War on Terror is a big reason why President Bush must be re-elected.

     Senator Kerry wants a pre-9/11 version of the world. That world is gone, finito.

     The present situation may be likened to 1824, when the U.S. and Great Britain allied to wipe the Atlantic, Mediteranean, and Caribbean free of pirates. At the time, it seemed an insurmountable task, but it was accomplished. The same can be done with Global Terrorism.

     A big part of that war depends on identifying the right targets. And for that, we need to understand the difference between Islam and Islamo-fascism, between real progress in stopping Terrorism and useless increases in bureacracy, between using every tool at our disposal, and worrying about our political image.

106. #106
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 3:53 pm, Bob said:

     HOWEVER (huge “however”) he rails against the corruption that allowed the wholesale thievery of Japanese homes, farms and businesses.

     Answer: Any theivery that occured was due to ethnic Japanese making arrangements with private persons who took advantage of them, and not the government.

     The government advised not to make private arrangements for this reason.

107. #107
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 3:57 pm, Muslim in America said:

     odin wrote:
     “You can thank your peers and betters for bringing you into this situation. I have in vain looked for some support for the war against militant Islam from Muslims and seen none whatsoever (apart from some that have converted to other faiths)… Read the history books.”

     My peers are American, my betters the soldiers who fight for this country. I suggest you look harder, sir, for support against militant Islam among Muslims:

     http://www.freemuslims.org/

     I have read the history books, sir, and I am content in the fact that history, if nothing else, has been a long, inexorable march for equality amongst all humanity, against the bigotry of the unenlightened. Perhaps one day, you too will know this.

108. #108
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:01 pm, Hubris said:

     “My peers are American, my betters the soldiers who fight for this country.”

     That gave me chills. Kudos.

109. #109
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:02 pm, Chris said:

     Muslim

     Thanks for your response.

     I am afraid the terror will go on indefinately, it has been going on for decades already. Subsequently I imagine the war on terror will also continue.

     I sincerely hope that the idea of internment of Muslim Americans is put to rest early on so that people like yourself don’t have to spend years wondering if someone is going to slap you and your family in a camp.

     I also appreciate your view on airport security. It is logical. We may not know who the next terrorists are, or what nationality they will be, but we have a pretty good idea what ethnic background they will come from and it is reasonable to adjust our defenses based on that information.

     Thanks again for the discussion.

     Chris

110. #110
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:02 pm, Shelley said:

     Exactly how long did you spend researching and writing this book? If you mention a weblog debate in Feb of last year, and the book is on the streets now, it sounds like you spent less than a year on research and writing. And using someone else’s research.

     No serious student of history would touch a book that was slapped together that quickly, and with what sounds like very shallow independent research.

     But I did guess right on why you started your weblog…

111. #111
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:07 pm, Chris said:

     “My peers are American, my betters the soldiers who fight for this country.”

     That gave me chills. Kudos.

     Ditto. Well said.

112. #112
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:13 pm, Hubris said:

     Shelley,

     I assume you have similar problems with the quickie anti-Bush books? That no serious student of politics would take them seriously?

113. #113
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:19 pm, odin said:

     >I have read the history books, sir, and I am content in the fact that history, if nothing else, has been a long, inexorable march for equality amongst all humanity, against the bigotry of the unenlightened.

     Then you haven’t read the history books close enough. In real life, we all look away because we know we have to win and in real life the history books are written by the winners. The bombing of Dresden is one good example - “Bomber-Harris” got a statue on Trafalgar Square (if memory serves right)instead of the war crime trial he deserved.

     I did BTW not say that I liked the system. I don’t.

     I am glad to hear that there are Muslims critical of the system and will check out the link. Does anyone know how big this group is?

114. #114
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:21 pm, sky king said:

     Michelle - the ad hominem attacks have begun. How dare you publish a book that was “slapped together”. How dare you use research done by others - that has never been done before in recorded history! Just who do you think you are by insulting the intelligence of a “serious student of history”? And, all of this when your book hasn’t even been read! Just so you know that you’re dealing with some purtee smart folk.

115. #115
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:27 pm, odin said:

     >My peers are American, my betters the soldiers who fight for this country.

     I forgot: I am sure that many of the Japanese said something similar when they took them away. However, a political correctness bubble has been ruling very long and once it bursts …

     To avoid serious trouble, it is essential for a majority of moderate Muslims to come forward and state their position. Suddenly it will be too late.

116. #116
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:32 pm, DJDrummond said:

     Shelley:”it sounds like you spent less than a year on research and writing”

     And?

     One of Mozart’s Horn Concertos (#3 I think) was composed in less than ten minutes. It remains an acknowledged masterpiece, all the same.

     Are you really that desperate, to reject what may be a truly significant work?

117. #117
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:38 pm, Bob said:

     I spent much of my life in California and have many ex-detainee friends. An almost universal experience for the detainees was to have their homes and businesses confiscated - never to be returned. Those who did not have their homes or businesses confiscated most likely did not own homes or businesses!

     One friend in particular was a college student when he, his brothers and sisters and his parents were forcibly interned. The family owned a chain of 21 dry-cleaning stores in Northern California, all of which were permanently seized.

     They were released from the camp at the conclusion of the war with only what they were allowed to bring with them when they were interned.

     Answer: 21 dry cleaning stores? Seized by who?

     None of the ethnic Japanese around here had their homes and business seized.

     Any ethnic Japanese who lost property could file a claim with the evacuation claims act of 1948 that paid out $48 million….

     The belief that ethnic Japanese had their homes and businesses confiscated is a myth…..

118. #118
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 4:56 pm, Martin aka Blogbat said:

     Either J.J.’s comments are an isolated incident of someone who badly needs Ritalin, or he is the same troll who scrawled the other obscenities in the comments’ sections of this blog. Michelle, I hope you contact his ISP so his parents can ground him from the computer.

119. #119
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 5:12 pm, Justin said:

     There’s a lot of scary people who frequent these pages. A sociologist could have a heyday here. What’s wrong with all you people????

120. #120
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 5:13 pm, Robert said:

     Can you really trace someone like that? I guess that’s how the record companies are catching the downloaders?

121. #121
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 5:26 pm, DJDrummond said:

     It’s not all the people, Justin, or even that many.

     Some folks are scared by maturity and intelligence, you know.

122. #122
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 5:38 pm, Justin said:

     I suppose there’s lots of people here who are intimidated by maturity and intelligence, yes.

     And no, Robert, I don’t think you can catch these people. Michelle needs to look into securing this site, but then of course she closes off much of the freedom to comment and ease of use.

     I’d say from looking, that more than half the people using this page needs some book learnin’ and to grow up.

123. #123
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 5:57 pm, DJDrummond said:

     Well, not to plug, but on my blog I use Haloscan, which allows some security like blocking certain trolls, w/o closing off comments.

     Always consider your options.

124. #124
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 6:56 pm, Bob said:

     I believe the reason the Germans were not interred was because they “blended in” physically.

     Answer: Internment camps were run by the Department of Justice and held only enemy aliens who had been deemed security risks and their U.S. citizen family members who were allowed at their choice to stay with them.

     Internees included 10,995 Germans, 16, 849 Japanese (5,589 who voluntarily renounced U.S. citizenship and became enemy aliens), 3,278 Italians, 52 Hungarians, 25 Romanians, 5 Bulgarians, and 161 classified as “other”. Only a small fraction of enemy aliens were interned.

     Japanese citizens with families were sent to Crystal City, Texas and lived side-by-side with German and Italian families. Single men were sent to internment camps in other states. Not all enemy aliens were placed in internment camps, and no American citizen was forcefully placed in an internment camp.

     If you were interned it was determined that you, a spouse or parent was an enemy alien and a security risk.

     It should be noted that all 16,849 Japanese enemy-aliens including the 5,589 that renounced American citizenship were eligible for an apology from the United States and a $20,000 reparations payment while the Germans, Italians, Hungarians, Romanians and Bulgarians received nothing.

125. #125
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 7:01 pm, Martin aka Blogbat said:

     I think German-Americans should sue, but they won’t because they don’t have a self-appointed liberal leader who exploits them for political gain.

126. #126
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 7:10 pm, Bob said:

     I think German-Americans should sue, but they won’t because they don’t have a self-appointed liberal leader who exploits them for political gain.

     Answer: One man tried, and he was fought every step of the way by the Japanee-American reparations activists…

     You can learn about it here….

     http://www.foitimes.com/internment/

127. #127
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 7:13 pm, Shelley said:

     “One of Mozart’s Horn Concertos (#3 I think) was composed in less than ten minutes. It remains an acknowledged masterpiece, all the same.

     Are you really that desperate, to reject what may be a truly significant work?”

     You’re comparing a musical composition with a book the premise of which is historical evidence? That’s quite a stretch, and makes little or no sense.

     Besides, Mozart’s work wasn’t used as justification for interning people and racial steretyping.

     “Your immaturity and lack of education and life experience is glaringly illustrated in your posts. Please see above. The internment was not shameful. It was entirely necessary. Perhaps you are the one who should be doing some lengthy, in-depth research. And while you’re studying, perhaps you will gain an appreciation for the freedoms you enjoy, and the men and women who have and are protecting your right to be a spoiled child, by giving their own lives.”

     JB, I have no idea where you got your assessment other than I basically said no serious student of history would be interested in Malkin’s book. But she’s not after the students of history — she’s after all of you. And with your dubious knowledge of both Japanese and German internment, I can see she’s found a ready mark.

     Interesting though how just the statement such as “now serious student of history would find a book put together that quickly to be credible” is considered a troll and an attack. Don’t have to trust my word on it — go chat with some of the history teachers at your local schools.

     Oh and someone way up said do I find the anti-Bush books slapped together quickly to be credible? Well, the subject is much more contained — one person — and much more recent — rumor has it the man is alive. And one would have to assume that the results of the book aren’t advocating wholesale racial discrimination. Still, I don’t have a high opinion of any historically-based book that isn’t based on careful research, cross-checked with as many references as possible. So I would say, no, I don’t think much of those books either.

128. #128
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 7:34 pm, sky king said:

     Michelle, I cautioned you about writing a book that is not well-researched. I also told you that advocating wholesale racial discrimination would raise the ire of Shelley and everyone else who hasn’t read your book. Yes, yes, I know that some people don’t need to read a book to judge it. I feel cheated that I don’t have the gift of prejudging with such insight. Next time, Michelle, better have scads of references and a bibliography that would choke a horse. I know that you wrote this book for all of us’ns down here and we’re mighty thankful, lil’ missus.

129. #129
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 7:44 pm, Phillip said:

     Please don’t respond to Fairweather. It is now clear this only encourages his trashy rants, while dragging the overall dialogue down with him. The poor fool only craves attention. I guess it is Michelle’s choice to bar his posts

130. #130
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 7:46 pm, Peggy said:

     I’ve always wondered if there was more to the whole internment thing than has been generally available. Thank you, Michelle for doing research and writing the book. I look forward to reading it…..and learning.

131. #131
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 8:13 pm, Bob said:

     Wholesale racial discrimination?

     Tell me about the Chinese, Koreans and Filipinos who were evacuated/interned….

     Or for that matter the Germans and Italians who were interned….

     I won’t speak for this particular book but I know there is a wealth of historical information that has been researched that counters this history as presented by the reparations movement.

     For starters, study this site. All raw intelligence for the research historian…

     http://www.internmentarchives.com/

132. #132
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 8:13 pm, Hubris said:

     “Still, I don’t have a high opinion of any historically-based book that isn’t based on careful research, cross-checked with as many references as possible. ”

     Similarly, I prefer well-researched blog comments; for example, ones that criticize a book should be based on actual analysis of the book’s content.

133. #133
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 8:19 pm, Shelley said:

     Sky King, if Malkin’s publisher wants to send me a copy I will read it. If I can borrow it from someone, I will read it. If I find that the research is sound and well thought and carefully cross-referenced, and her arguments irrefutable, I would even apologize.

     But I’ve been studying World War II (and World War I and earlier times) for close to 25 years, because of curiousity and interest in history — I have a minor in history in addition a degree in psychology and computer science. And I don’t consider myself knowledgeable enough to write a book with such sweeping pronouncements as Malkin makes in such little time.

     In fact, I added it to an Amazon wish list (Shelley R Powers). One of you buy it for me and I’ll read it and review it — in great detail — at the weblog American Street.

     Other than that, I’ll just continue to continue to be skeptical of anyone that spends as little time researching such a complex topic as this and then feels expert enough to make such amazing pronouncements.

     Well, fun chatting with you all. I only wish I could get my weblog readers to be as unfailingly loyal as Malkin’s fans are. But darn, I guess I don’t attract that kind of reader.

134. #134
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 8:24 pm, JB said:

     Shelley:

     Ah yes, the operative phrase, “history teachers at your local schools.” You have said it all in that phrase, my dear. History teachers don’t teach history as factual events any more; they teach it as they have rewritten it in the last 20 years. I actually did have a very long conversation with my daughter’s teacher a few years ago. This wonderful woman had been teaching for 30 years, and she told me there was no real history left in the books they were required to use. Since then, I have kept a close watch on what the curriculum in my child’s “Social Science” classes, which is what passes for history. She hasn’t learned any history, to speak of. She knows nothing of her own country’s history, except for the great oppression of anyone who wasn’t white.

     I can only assume that you have had the same sort of “education,” or, worse, that your are teaching this garbage somewhere.

     Thank God, I learned history from men and women who had served this country in WWII, and understood the importance of teaching facts, not feelings.

135. #135
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 10:36 pm, texasviolinist said:

     Michelle, The book is already out in Texas. My wife bought it a week ago and I have read it. Your publisher is a little loose on the release date.

     I grew up in Hawaii (in the 1950’s and 60’s) and I have lived for eight years in Japan. I think that most Nisei were loyal but stressed by some family pressure. There is no doubt that there was intense chauvinism among Japanese people in the first generation. Most didn’t have the wherewithal to act much on their feelings but some did and given the era internement was inevitable.

     It is a good read.

136. #136
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 10:52 pm, sky king said:

     Shelley - Appreciate your offer to apologize if this tome does not meet the standards that you list. Michelle should not hold her breath since the topic is sure to be somewhat subjective and, therefore, refutable.
     I don’t have a history major, nor minor, and I guess that I would consider myself a history buff, not a scholar. I’ve taken a special interest in WWII becuase of my father’s service then. I’ve also studied (somewhat less) the Civil War - my great-grandfather served in that war. I studied the heck out of my own war (I put it to rest many years ago) and I expect to study my son’s war, this war.
     I’m not expecting a classic nor a textbook. Because visitors to this site may find this book to be interesting, and informative, it doesn’t mean that we’re incapable of being students of history. And, we may even disagree with Michelle! I wouldn’t be surprised that conservative bedfellows have vehement disagreement on this subject.
     Thanks for withholding judgement until you (and I) read the book. I look forward to your appraisal.

137. #137
     On August 3rd, 2004 at 11:46 pm, Shelley said:

     Darn, Sky King, since no one wants to buy me the book, my review will be long in coming. Shucks. But then, as you said — the opinions in it will be subjective and refutable.

     But I see that she’s at the rank of 200 or so in Amazon. Instead of debate with small fry the likes of me, she’ll just have to settle for all those nice royalities. Breaks her heart, I’m sure — poor dear.

     As for learning history from those who came before, my father served in the 82nd Airborne in World War II. He also served in Vietnam, and is now, finally, at 93, dying of an odd form of cancer the doctors believe may have resulted from exposure to Agent Orange. You see, I know the history of war quite personally, too.

     As for your son’s war — what war? The invasion of Iraq? The so-called war on terror? The war that masquerades as never ending fear that too many people seem to crave, as if it’s some kind of noxious, killing drug? That war?

     Michelle Malkin’s war?

     Funny think about terrorism — you never know for sure if you’ve caught all the bad guys, so this particular war, it never ends. Not until people stop being scared.

138. #138
     On August 4th, 2004 at 1:05 am, Eric Pobirs said:

     JB nails it. One of the things that is rarely brought up in discussions of the internments (especially when most people are still ignorant of the MAGIC decrypts) is the terrible potential for violence against Asians in the US at a time when American soldiers were dying by the tens of thousands in the Pacific Theatre. For all the suffering the internments caused it would be a far worse thing if we had to look back on outbreaks of mass murder against Asians in the US. Emotions were running extremely high. If I were a Japanese man in 1942 I’d be terrified to walk the streets of Los Angeles.

     Many of those who would have done terrible things in a moment of passion would regret it terribly later but that would be cold comfort to those killed and injured. The protection given the Japanese as part of their internment was unprecedented in most of human history. Its like certainly couldn’t be found among the Japanese then on a rampage throughout Asia and the Pacific region.

     Could the internments been handled better? Of course. Was there any template to use as a reference? None at all. The world was a very different place then but it is to America’s credit that the vast majority of those interned lived to complain about it after the war. Many similar population throughout human history were simply extinguished as an inconvenience.

139. #139
     On August 4th, 2004 at 1:37 am, James Kotthoff said:

     In reading the many comments here I am looking forward to reading the book. I have often been less then convinced that reparations was a logical act. But over all it will be a good read.
     I see a lot of “serious students of history” are posting. I wonder what exactly you all consider being a serious student entails? I am hoping that those of you who are claiming to be serious students actually do your own research and not just base your status on the same garbage that our public education system and liberal colleges requires you to read. The person(s) who posted the had a degree in history, I would enjoy hearing where you got your degree. What level of degree you have. And did you do independant research or just the required class work.
     And finally to all you who insist on making derogatory comments (Yes LA especially you) If you can not or will not contribute to the debate at hand with out personal attacks, profanity or in the case of our friend GOPsux wandering out to space, Please save your pearls of wisdom for another forum.
     Thank you and Good Night

140. #140
     On August 4th, 2004 at 5:22 am, RepubAnon said:

     So Michelle, you think racial profiling was justified in WW2 against the Japanese? I assume you feel it should be used again against new threats, like Al Qaeda?

     You know, there are probably North Korean spies trying to steal nuclear secrets. Will you volunteer to move to an internment camp as a safety measure?

     A disproportunate number of rich white guys are white-collar criminals. How about imprisoning all the Fortune 500 CEOs to ward off corporate crime?

     Odd, isn’t it, how racial profiling only seems practical when used against funny-looking people we don’t like. It is always so easy to strip away the Constitutional rights of despised minorities that speak with accents. The percentage of white male Republicans carrying out terrorist attacks against Planned Parenthood offices is probably higher than the percentage of the Arab-American community working with Al Qaeda - shall we do racial profiling against fat white males?

     Meanwhile, please explain how racial profiling would catch John Walker Lindh, the “American Taliban.” All racial profiling ever does is give people a feel-good but useless solution, a visible scapegoat to blame, a false sense of control over the threat, and distract security personnel from more practical solutions.

     I have no doubt that there were some Japanese-Americans spying for Japan. I also expect there were some Caucasians spying for Japan, too. I’ll be interested in seeing your arguments as to why it is OK to punish 1,000 brown-skinned people to catch maybe 1 brown-skinned spy, but it is unthinkable to punish 10 innocent whites to catch 1 criminal.

141. #141
     On August 4th, 2004 at 6:17 am, citizen of earth said:

     Poor confused Michelle, you and your family would have been rounded up as well. You sure look Asian, or maybe you would get by as a guard/translator/torturer of the camp so your family had better living conditions, wake-up, you would have been a victim of the very same racism.

142. #142
     On August 4th, 2004 at 6:34 am, citizen of earth said:

     One more note, Michelle, I am pretty racially ambigious, meaning since I have so much mixed blood, I can pass for anything, Dominican, Egyptian, you name it. People always ask me where I come from, 1/3 of my blood is Cherokee, we are all tourists on this rock. If you think muslims will be rounded up you are dead wrong. ANYONE who is deemed unfit for the greater society is a possible prisoner. You and your facist notions are turning “war” on terror into a Stalinesque exercise. What the hell is going on? What happened to the country I learned about growing up in grade school? We have Al-Queda attacking us on one side and the torturer/internment apologists on the other. Until people really start to speak up against the facism going on, we are really doomed. I do not think you have any case to call yourself a patriot.

143. #143
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:06 am, Marty said:

     You know people are clueless when they cannot even spell fascism. Citizen of Earth, please relocate to another planet, preferably one with a good educational system.

     And he calls Michelle confused.

144. #144
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:10 am, citizen of earth said:

     Marty-
     cheap shot, which is all you can counter with-
     6:30am, not a term paper

145. #145
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:15 am, GsOuPx said:

     [Besides, Mozart's work wasn't used as justification for interning people and racial steretyping.]

     You’re correct. That would have been Wagner.

146. #146
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:16 am, citizen of earth said:

     Typical-

     People are debating the idea of grabbing whole groups of people, and here is Marty, ridiculng a simple spelling gaffe, what gives?

     Spending too much time reading right wing blogs, cost? A nights sleep.

147. #147
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:18 am, GsOuPx said:

     [or in the case of our friend GOPsux wandering out to space]

     What are you babbling about?

148. #148
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:37 am, GsOuPx said:

     Just a quick note. I read Michelle’s blog every day that I have access to a computer even tho I may not comment on every blog posted.

     I did read her dolorific lament this morning about the devolving of this - her - site into invectives and insults. For any part in that which I may have had, I apologize. Sometimes we do get caught up in our rhetoric where an insult is part of the normal rythym of the dialogue. And, while I will not guarantee that I will be immune to throwing out a “you moron” or two every now and again, I will do my part in trying to keep it clean, if not civil.

149. #149
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:46 am, James Kotthoff said:

     GsOuPx or GOPsux. I was refering to you trip away from the subject of internment camps and Michelles new book. ou know where you get into Sandy Berger and John Ashcroft among other topics

150. #150
     On August 4th, 2004 at 7:54 am, GsOuPx said:

     [GsOuPx or GOPsux. I was refering to you trip away from the subject of internment camps and Michelles new book. ou know where you get into Sandy Berger and John Ashcroft among other topics]

     Conversations have ebbs and flows. That said, I was not the one who brought up Berger nor was I the one who mentioned Jamie Gorelick which is how the AG came into the conversation.

     So, feel free to direct your comments to Marty who was the one who introduced those players into the conversation.

     I commented - dismissively - on the premise of Michelle’s book quite early in this thread; the 6th post, in fact.

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